Topic: India's confusing crypto bill (Read 407 times)

It's very confusing indeed, the finance minister am sure doesn't know or bother to know anything about crypto, they have no clue and just shooting arrows in the dark I guess? The tax thing is confusing, never really bothered to check and research about what and how the tax will be applied to, but this duality approach that "it's something we discourage" and "we will take cash from your profits" is really a very big hypocrisy, I guess they have taken this matter because there was a pending need to talk about crypto in parliament for a long time I think they will just leave it again without saying any further till next time

They already know what number of taxes would discourage crypto use, every country does.

ie - A tax on stock trading at 30 percent, hypothetically, would objectively be lower than a crypto tax that the government decides to be at 50 percent. You are paying more in taxes on crypto gains than you are on stock gains in relative percentages, so the incentive is for investors to dump their funds off of crypto instead of trying to game the market and make more off crypto to offset the taxes. I've long said the way government can feasibly ban Bitcoin is by taxing it to pieces and forcing people to not want to invest or use it as a day-to-day currency. Most businsses already pay too much in taxes, they have no reason to further take on a tax burden that might be associated with Bitcoin use.

If coming up with a decision when majority of the first world countries are yet to take a decision on how they are going to handle the cryptocurrency situation is not that easy like you think. Right now what they have done is they are including cryptocurrency trading in a tax bracket and even if the tax percentage is high it sends a signal that they are not going to ban anytime soon.

The whole state of India is confused, the country is divided because the stakeholders are having different clique, half want it to be legalized and the other part wants it to be banned, they both are pushing to pass/deny the bill for bitcoin freedom that's why we are seeing different headlines about bitcoin ban and taxes from India.


Have you read the 2022 report of crypto crime analysis? you can find everything from Chainanalysis^[1], You will come to the conclusion that India is just a minor in Bitcoin crimes. The money the government has been printing has its bad side too, they should allow people to do whatever they want it freedom(bitcoin).

---

[1] https://go.chainalysis.com/rs/503-FAP-074/images/Crypto-Crime-Report-2022.pdf

To date, there is no working example of the implementation of blockchain technology, but many industries are testing possibilities for better accountability, services, and transparency.

Crypto and blockchain technologies are a bit more complex to understand. Bitcoin is the first successful application ever used in the world using blockchain technology, but we should not have to ignore Ethereum and its forks.

As the post is about the crypto bills in India, it's very hard for the government to keep watch on every transaction, so the government trying to make a blanket rule by charging a 30% tax on crypto trading against fiat. but it is completely unfair considering bitcoins current status under regulation and legal conditions.

Personally, I think that at the moment this is just talk about the future of cryptocurrencies in India, in principle, as elsewhere. You can see the information about recognition, then about the collection of taxes, but where is the guarantee that this is official information from the Indian authorities? And there are no guarantees, there are only news of which there are now a lot and very often each news contradicts the other. Based on this, I can assume that at this stage we are just talking. As for real cases, there should be clearly adopted laws on this matter, as you correctly noted, first on recognition, and only then on taxes, and so on.

Please tell me you don't actually believe Binance or Coinbse runs their exchange on a blockchain or that their trade engine is something blockchain-related?
I asked you for one real-life already functional blockchain application that uses blockchain technology that can actually be claimed has propelled the world of technology to new heights! There have been numerous tries but still, there is no serious breakthrough, every major company is just saying it's exploring, it's looking into it test implemented and then in most cases there is nothing.

There is only one world application of blockchain technology that has actually proven to be overall useful and adopted, and that is Bitcoin! The original and nothing else. The rest of the projects that have been completed to date have proven nothing, absolutely nothing on a large scale. While Defi was indeed promising on paper and there are user case situations where it would theoretically make sense there is nothing about it to claim it could drive the entire world in a new direction.

My views are on the government's role. As laws are made or changed in parliament only. So considering the government's stance on crypto, they have no proposal for legalization. But at the same time government knows how big volume assets are involved in crypto.

Many countries including India, have no control over Bitcoins production, no control over Bitcoins distribution, even no control over Bitcoins Price fluctuation, still countries like India trying to bring it under taxation. What to say?

Already there are other ways to reduce taxes on crypto. But according to laws for fiat, persons have to pay taxes accordingly.

Exchanging Fiat against Cryptocurrencies on exchangers is booming nowadays. Every exchanger is a working example of a blockchain-based application, but they are still centralized. So, in addition to it, Dex and Defi are the new trends in the crypto industry.

So what?
We had a whaling association that didn't stop states from banning whaling at all. Let's forget whales or lead paint or how farmed salmon or kinder eggs are banned in some countries, there is an incoming ban on diesel cars, and if those manufacturers are not part of most associations out there I don't know who does.
If they want to ban something that much they can issue a law have it voted and if it passes goodby all of them wazrix, bitbns, and so on, that association will drop them from its ranks and that's it.

If a moronic government decided it's time to make another stupid move that's it,  vote somebody else next time.
We had a Chinese Blockchain Association , did it help?


Care to show me one revolutionary example of a blockchain application that has taken the world to a new height?
Legit working already put in place accessible to the population, not pipedream no Ico no empty promises project?
There are tons of projects, maybe 1% of them would qualify for the above but I can hardly find one that could claim it had such impact.


Not giving it legal status doesn't mean it is illegal, for example, Bitcoin is not legal tender nor a currency by English law, yet it is not deemed illegal, right now India is in the same situation as most of the world and hopefully, it will get better, not worse.

Banning is not possible in a legal manner? How do you say that? What is legal or illegal is decided by the parliament itself and if it wants to declare something illegal it definitely can. Nothing can really stop that unless you are violating the constitution itself which too anyways can be ammended. I think you didn't get my point. My point was if government is going to levy TDS on every crypto transaction they are indirectly making trading futile exercise hence banning bitcoin in an indirect way.

Bit different view,

As in India Wazirx, BitBNS, CoinDCX, Zebpay, and a few more offer crypto exchange services, where users can only exchange cryptocurrencies, except that no government can know how much crypto asset you hold.

All of the above exchanges are members of IAMAI (Internet And Mobile Association of India), along with this Binance is also a member of IAMAI. So, banning is not possible, in a legal manner. so taxation of the exchanged asset against fiat is charged by 30%.

At a certain level, exchanges have always been with the government for legal interaction. But to date, everything is going well as it's all about KYC and AML.

But crypto and blockchain are revolutionary and innovative concepts taking the world to a new height. The government also still testing its possibilities. But surely it will take much time to adjust to the global economy. As in the crypto market, many innovative things are happening which are solely based on cryptocurrencies, blockchain including AI and ML technologies.

So the future is completely innovative but at the same time, it will be much more costly.

They didn't allow their financial system engage yet in cryptocurrency although the Reserve Bank of India tends to push forward for crypto ban but unsuccessful, the main idea is that india never declare bitcoin a ledger tender and their citizens were not ban from engaging in the use of cryptocurrency, the mastery they only exhibit is over the 30% tax imposition. I also believe after several years of thorough observations on bitcoin and still found outstanding with a maintained standard, possibly their iota of doubt could have been clarified in accepting bitcoin as a legal tender.

man I confess that I'm shocked by this news, I didn't know it was possible to pay tax for something illegal, how could that be possible?


they are becoming a joke with these attitudes, why don't they decide right away what they want? if they don't like bitcoin just put laws that guarantee people won't use bitcoin to commit crimes and let people choose whether or not they want to use bitcoin, they look like dictation governments disguised as democratic

yes onece they changed their decision about bitcoin to ban but to taxi it. even tax percentage is too high but still people were hopping at least it will become legal there, but the latest news again make some confusion. but everyone know and sure  about it that not only India but every other country will make bitcoin legal in future.

If you are really that a kind of investor who do always look after fundamentals then these kind of decisions do really look confusing and at the same time it would really be that
annoying on which decisions do revert back and forth which you would really be having that kind of reaction which could also goes back and forth.
They are the ones who do make out their decisions it might be still un sure but i wont be surprised that it would be changing later on again.

Wait, didn't they say that they won't ban bitcoin anymore and will instead tax it? And now they are once again talking about banning? What is this country actually up to? It's funny to see how they still can't decide what they want to do with crypto currencies. As if taxing their citizen 30% wasn't enough for them.
I guess by "legal" they meant that taxing doesn't mean that they are now considered as a legal tender. This means you are free to trade, use or accept bitcoin but it is not mandatory for someone to accept it as a mode of payment. I mean when you pay with bitcoin, the merchants can deny this form of payment (since it isn't a legal tender) and ask for fiat money.

Yes they can charge taxes even though they are yet to declare the legal status of an asset.

But AFAIK, they mentioned that they didn't recognise cryptocurrencies as legal tender which doesn't mean it's not legal there but they are about to launch their own CBDC and probably after that they can declare the legality status of Bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrencies.

Exactly, I don't understand why poeple are so confused about this.
It simply means that cryptos will not be a legal payment method, which would force everybody from the administration and from the private sector to take payment in bitcoin. It simply doesn't recognize this as a legal payment method but that doesn't mean you're not allowed to use it if you want that.
Goats are not legal payments in Europe but it's not against the law to sell somebody 10 goats for a bicycle.


You pay taxes from your profits from rice farming in India, right? Does rice have legal status? 
Is rice legal tender, no! Is rice outlawed? No again!
Where is the confusion?

Oh, and btw from an article quoted:


There goes the myth of India's 100 million users and trillions in crypto invested.

Seems that in India everything is possible. So basically you won't be stopped from doing illegal things, you will only be taxed for them. But I wonder if that actually turns the tide in favor of crypto when the government sees that they could be getting some additional funds from the taxation. It might not seem much, but then again, India has a lot of people, so that could add up to quite a sum. But then again, governments around the world are constantly shifting their opinions on crypto, so who knows how this will turn out.

I wonder what the government is planning to do with Crypto.

Recently they introduced taxes on incomes made with Crypto, but now a Reserve bank of India deputy governor calls for an outright crypto ban.

https://www.livemint.com/market/cryptocurrency/banning-crypto-the-most-advisable-choice-open-to-india-rbi-deputy-governor-11644851315064.html