Topic: Indiegogo launch - help us! :o (Read 675 times)

With the desktop version that we are developing you can choose to use on iOS, Android, Linux, Mac or Windows.


Offline backup is always necessary, because this exist seed recovery phrase. Because if the computer or smartphone crash, it is easy to recovery funds with the backup


Yes, microSD can be used to store encrypted seed recovery phrase. But, few users know how to do that and is not resistant to water, fire...

So maybe, CryptoPlatz Vault is just no for you guys, but for users that have cryptocurrencies on Trust Wallet, Metamask, Ledger, Trezor, Exodus and want a easy, safe, encrypted and offline device to store the seed recovery phrase.

Thank you for your advise! Help us a lot!

Alright, that rules out the thief scenario. But whenever the wallet is used, the user inputs some password that decrypts the seed and allows the software to access private keys for signing.
This means that if they have a virus dormant waiting just for that event to happen, it can access the seed. In conclusion, they still don't need an offline backup if using a software wallet, at least not to gain any extra protection from hackers.

Or the user could have an actual vault to store valuables and seeds. Or they could have encrypted microSD backups laying around, of their hardware wallet, created offline - by their hardware wallet.

How would people know if their card came preloaded with seed words for 1 Bitcoin?
I don't know if you are claiming that your encryption is impossible to crack, but consider sending this ten cards to known hackers and security experts, not to some random crypto normies and metamask users.

More than you think, and you can count in all signing devices like SeedSigner and air-gapped hardware wallets Passport, ColdCard, Keystone and others in that mix.
It's not that hard to own old laptop with no direct internet connection, and it can have full disk encryption in addition to file encryption.

I wonder how did they survive for so long with one  
With your product people need to use smartphone and they are all connected to internet all the time, plus the cell tower connection.
I don't care really about shitty metamask wallet and how they are handling their supported centralized coins.
 

You are wrong, Metamask save all the information encrypted on the computer, so if somebody steal the PC, he need to break the encryption.

But if the user leave the seed on a paper or on plate without be encrypted, the thief you have access to the cryptocurrencies.

So if the user use CryptoPlatz Vault, to store the seed, thief will not have access to the seed recovery phrase.

We're running in circles, but since you mentioned it again:

They use MetaMask, so they need to save their seed phrase offline, encrypted? Why do they need that? Someone breaking into their house can also just steal the PC, where the seed is stored, unencrypted, in MetaMask, no?
You mentioned that a text file is not secure. Sure; a virus can access this file. A virus can also access MetaMask's wallet file; right? Where is the benefit of storing an online seed on an encrypted offline device?

Again, in my opinion, encrypted, offline backups only make sense if your main wallet is offline, too. But since offline wallets can't usually connect to the cryptoplatz vault, there's no way of transferring the seed except through an online device, which destroys the whole purpose of it all.

I understand your point and I will try to explain:

You say people don't need to buy CryptoPlatz Vault because already exist hard wallet. Let me be very clear, CryptoPlatz Vault it is not to substitute cold wallets or hot wallet, this is the first point ok? CryptoPlatz Vault it is to substitute:

1) The paper where people write the seed phrase (recovery phrase) - paper is fragile (water, fire, bugs...)
2) Metal plates is not encrypted, so if somebody put the hands on your metal plate, you lost your crypto. CryptoPlatz Vault allow you to save your seed recovery phrase encrypted with AES-256 (password changed to a hash with MD5 first)

Another point is, you say people must use Electrum with live OS. For advanced user ok, but Bitcoin now is used for a lot of people. You must incentive than to keep the Bitcoin with their, not with exchanges. But to do this, they need to have easy and safe ways to use cryptocurrency.

I know a lot of people that have cryptocurrency, and do not know how to use Ledger, they think is very complicated 

I know people, that have more than 20 seed recovery phrase, imagine how to handle this with metal plates or paper?

A lot of Bitcoins is lost for years, because people formatted the HD with seed or the paper with the seed get fired for example.

For now we already have an iOS and Android version running. Soon we will launch version for MAC, Windows and Linux. So you can use CryptoPlatz software on Linux, offline, to store the seed encrypted.

Again, maybe you have only one seed recovery phrase and I understand you are advanced user, but this is not the common.

If people don't have a easy way to keep the seed recovery phrase protected. They will leave on a text file on Windows.

A lot of people now is using MetaMask, they need to save the seed recovery phrase offline, encrypted. They need CryptoPlatz Vault.

I hope you understand my point of view.

Thank you for your contribution

I don't think very many, but there are definitely a lot of hardware wallet users who can securely display their seed words directly on the device's screen and copy it to paper by hand. I wouldn't want them exposing their securely created and stored seeds to an online operating system with internet access and persistency, as it defeats the purpose of them purchasing the hardware wallet.

Furthermore, I do think there needs to be more education and anyone with multiple Bitcoin should get themselves an offline PC just for working with seeds. Besides the fact that this doesn't need to be a separate device from what you already own. In case you're not familiar: https://tails.boum.org/ This boots off USB and lives in RAM, with Electrum preinstalled and no network.

Exactly: he had the keys on his hard drive. I'm saying people should do their backups on multiple instances of laminated paper or steel washers instead of relying on electronics.
Cheap backup mechanisms that allow you to have redundancy at any budget. Buying 10 'cryptoplatz' devices is not an option for most.

Why is paper not a good option? Encryption just makes it more difficult to recover funds. If my heirs find my cleartext paper and steel seeds, they can restore them. If they find an encrypted plastic card, they could mistake it for an old credit card and throw it out.
Not to mention that you can also encrypt a paper seed before writing it down. And hardware wallets like BitBox and Passport already create electronic, encrypted backups on microSD card, as well. In case you don't have a physically secure location for paper backups..

If they already exposed it, I already said, there is little additional risk entering it into one more application. However, do you think that someone who doesn't even bother writing the seed on paper, will go and buy a dedicated seed backup device?
In my opinion, the money is better spent just buying a hardware wallet instead, transferring funds over and backing up on steel for 5 bucks.

It's true that there are different products for different people, I still just don't see the target user for cryptoplatz.
Your title says: 'help us! ' and that's what I'm trying to do.

So you're saying the target user is someone 'looking for a easy way to store their seed recovery phrase encrypted and offline in a strong device to keep it safe'.
Let's assume 2 users, for sake of simplicity, this should cover 99% of Bitcoin users.
Software wallet user
(1) Why does this user need to 'store their seed recovery phrase encrypted and offline in a strong device' if it's already living in an online, insecure device? First of all, the amounts are (should be) pretty small that you hold in a software wallet. Secondly, they can apply encryption to their seed and store it on paper / steel or simply buy a strong personal safe and put the backup inside there.
(2) If they can't be bothered spending money on a hardware wallet, why would they spend money on their backup?

Hardware wallet user
(1) The better hardware wallets already create encrypted, electronic backups for you on SD cards, such as Passport, BitBox and ColdCard.
(2) Why would they move their seed off their already 'offline, strong device' (hardware wallet) into an application, to save it to another 'offline, strong device'? It is a huge security risk and totally unnecessary as they already have a secure mechanism to do all they need.

In summary, people willing (or 'required' due to larger BTC holdings) to spend money on their Bitcoin storage, should (or already do) buy a hardware wallet with built-in encrypted electronic backup mechanism instead. People who don't want or can spend money on a hardware wallet, won't buy this product either. Sure, it's a bit cheaper, but they'll be better off saving up for one more month and getting a proper hardware wallet.

---

Finally, I just don't like the idea of getting people accustomed to entering their seed phrases here and there. The seed phrase should only be entered into Electrum or similar trusted software (preferably on a live-booted Tails OS) when restoring a wallet. You can also do this on some hardware wallets.
Normalizing phone and desktop apps that ask for your seed phrase for anything else, just increases the likeliness of people to enter it elsewhere.

I understand your point.

How many crypto users have an offline pc just to work with the seed?

Remember the guy from UK that lost his hard drive with thousand of Bitcoins and is try to find it on the public trash of the city?

We need to create options to the users keep their Bitcoin safe, keep seed recovery phrase in small piece of paper, without encryptation is not a good option.

Trust wallet app has more than 10 millions of download, this people already have exposed his seed on smartphone, a lot of then don’t save seed on paper, for laziness to write on a paper.

We need help people to store their seed better.

Some people will prefer an offline computer, others will prefer ledger and trezor (both already hacked), others will prefer app wallets like BitPay, Trust Wallet, Exodus. So CryptoPlatz Vault is not for all users, it is for someone that want to looking for a easy way to store their seed recovery phrase encrypted and offline in a strong device to keep it safe.

First you said that cryptoplatz is well suited to back up software wallets whose seed has already been exposed to an online device anyway (fair point, as I said).
But now you claim that actually, people will want to use cryptoplatz when they have 1BTC or more in a wallet, since paper is not good enough?

I personally don't believe anyone should store roughly $20,000 USD (at the time of writing) in a software wallet (except maybe exchanges since they need it for their operation).
This means the two statements appear as contradictory.

Most people should want to store +1BTC on a wallet that has been created on either an airgapped, offline PC or mayyybe on an airgapped hardware wallets; in both cases, the seed never left the device except being shown on screen, allowing the user to write it down on paper.
Do keep in mind that they can easily do 10 copies of said paper and laminate them (waterproofing), to store in various locations. All offline, all without any security concerns.
Why would such users want to now enter their very secure seed in a phone app?


Sorry if I'm being harsh, but the concept makes no sense to me.
Creating a seed phrase on a smart card? Maybe. Using a smart card to store a seed phrase that had been securely created on a different hardware device and requires typing it into an app? That makes really no sense.

You missed the point, though. I never said it was insecure storing data on a smartcard chip or easy to extract from it.
Instead, my concern is typing out your seed into any software. Users should never need to type their seed in any program except for restoring a lost wallet, and do so on an offline, airgapped PC that runs its OS in RAM, and is completely wiped by rebooting.

The point is, nobody with more than 1 bitcoin prefer to leave 24 words on a piece of paper.

So I will launch a challenge! I will sell 10 CryptoPlatz Vault with the seed recovery phrase of 1 Bitcoin, encrypted with CryptoPlatz App.

The first man that decrypt the seed recovery phrase can take 1 Bitcoin for him.

Absolutely not. Never. That's the whole idea of these devices. I'd stay clear of a company who creates 'Bitcoin security devices' of any type and believes a hardware wallet exposes its seed phrase to the host computer.

No it's not exposed, and I can also connect hardware wallets to offline computer using Electrum wallet.
In ledger devices seed phrases are stored in secure element and it never leaves there, unless you reset your device.
Some hardware wallets like Passport, Keystone or ColdCard and air-gapped and they don't have cable connection with any devices.

When you use cold wallet devices, like Ledger and Trezor, the seed recovery phrase (12 words or 24 words) is "exposed" to an online device too, on mobile smartphone or computer.

Okay, so this device then is only really suited to backup seed phrases of hot wallets; that makes sense. As the seed has already been exposed to an online device, it makes no difference whether you enter it in another app one more time. I guess.
Then the product is just not for me, and others who generate and back their seed phrases up without them touching an online device.

PS: Please take a look at:

Sorry, CryptoPlatz App is compatible with Android 4.1 and above

Have you used before Ledger app, Trust wallet app, Exodus app? All of this apps you use online on iOS or Android, and this apps ask you to save the seed on paper.

The option that we are offering, is to save the seed encrypted and keep offline using open source app, with a industry standard chip NTAG424.

Oh, that's a terrible idea of an 'offline computer'. Whatever device you use for any such endeavor, should be either booted off a live drive (CD or USB thumb drive) or destroyed / at least fully erased after the process, and before any radios are turned back on.
How do you think criminals attack your device? Do you think a short downtime erases any viruses or spyware? Keyloggers and screenloggers continue logging - whether you're connected to the internet or not, and just do the telemetry when network connection comes back.

It's a little bit disturbing that 'turning on airplane mode' is what springs to your mind when I talk about entering a seed phrase only on airgapped machines.

In my opinion, the app should not even exist and the NFC transceiver should come by default. You could provide a modified version of Tails with NFC drivers and your own software preinstalled; though do make sure that it's all open-source, with reproducible builds.

I'm slightly worried about the NFC device though: where you source it, whether it's trustable. Though I suppose if it's not plugged into anything other than the live-USB-booted computer, there's no way for it to do telemetry.

I'll be straight honest to you: Paper looks like the way better option here. Less fancy, but more simple and secure.

I was not talking about smartphone models, but about actual version of Android operating system supported
Latest version of Android is 13, but is cryptoplatz supported for older Android OS 4 or 5?
Reason I ask this is because I have some ancient Android smartphone I could use for this purpose.

You can find the list of compatible Android and iOS smartphones on the faq: https://www.cryptoplatz.ch/support

But I will paste here:

Acer Cloud Mobile
Acer E320 Liquid Express
Acer Liquid Glow
Acer Liquid S2
Adlink IMX-3000
Alcatel Idol 4
Alcatel One Touch 922
Alcatel One Touch 996
Alcatel Onetouch Idol 2
Alcatel Onetouch Idol 2 Mini S
Alcatel Onetouch Idol 2S
Alcatel Onetouch Pop Fit
Apple iPhone 11 and iPhone 11 Pro
Apple iPhone 12, iPhone 12 mini, iPhone 12 Pro, iPhone 12 Pro Max
Apple iPhone 13, iPhone 13 mini, iPhone 13 Pro, iPhone 13 Pro Max
Apple iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus
Apple iPhone 6s and iPhone 6s Plus
Apple iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus
Apple iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus
Apple iPhone SE
Apple iPhone X
Apple iPhone XR
Apple iPhone Xs and iPhone Xs Max
Apple Watch
Archos New Diamond
Asmaitha Sruta 7″ Tablet
Asus MeMO Pad 8 (ME581CL)
Asus Padfone 2
Asus Padfone Infinity
Asus Vivo Tab
Asus Vivo Tab RT
Asus VivoTab Smart
Asus ZenFone 2
Asus Zenfone 4
Asus Zenfone 5
Asus Zenfone 6
BBK Vivo Xplay
Benq T80
BlackBerry Bold 9790
BlackBerry Bold 9900/9930
BlackBerry Classic
BlackBerry Curve 9350/9360/9370
BlackBerry Curve 9380
BlackBerry Dtek50
BlackBerry Dtek60
BlackBerry KEY2
BlackBerry KEYone
BlackBerry Motion
BlackBerry Passport
BlackBerry PlayBook
BlackBerry Priv
BlackBerry Q10
BlackBerry Q5
BlackBerry Z10
BlackBerry Z30
Blackview BV9800
Blackview BV9800 Pro
Blu Life Pure XL
BQ Aquaris M5.5
BWC ToughSlate 7″
C-Mii 1
C-Mii 3
Casio DT-X8
Casio G’zOne CA-201L
Casio IT-800
Cat S60
Cetrix CB250
Cetrix CD661
Cetrix CT973G
Cetrix CV300
Dell Venue 11 Pro
DLI 9000
Doogee S60 and S60 Lite
Doogee S70 and S70 Lite
Doogee S80 and S80 Lite
Elephone P9000
Essential PH-1
Faea F1
Faea F2
Faea F2S
Fairphone 3
Famoco FX-100
Firefox OS Flame
Fujitsu Arrows A
Fujitsu Arrows µ F-07D
Fujitsu Arrows Kiss
Fujitsu Arrows Tab
Fujitsu Arrows V
G.To N800
Gentag GT-601v2
Gionee Elife E7
Google Nexus 10
Google Nexus 5
Google Nexus 5X
Google Nexus 6
Google Nexus 6P
Google Nexus 7 (2013)
Google Nexus 9
Google Pixel
Google Pixel 2 and Google Pixel 2 XL
Google Pixel XL
Google Project Tango tablet
Hike X1
Hike X1D
Hisense Sero 7 Pro
HP Elitebook Revolve
HP Elitepad 900
HTC Desire 500
HTC Desire 510
HTC Desire 610
HTC Desire 620
HTC Desire 816
HTC Desire C
HTC Desire Eye
HTC Droid DNA/HTC J Butterfly
HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE
HTC Evo 4G LTE
HTC First
HTC Incredible
HTC Mini
HTC One
HTC One M8
HTC One M9
HTC One Max
HTC One SV
HTC One VX
HTC One X/XL
HTC Ruby/Amaze 4G
HTC U Play
HTC U Ultra
HTC U11
HTC Windows Phone 8X
Huawei Ascend G300
Huawei Ascend G6 4G
Huawei Ascend G600
Huawei Ascend G7
Huawei Ascend Mate 7
Huawei Ascend P2
Huawei Ascend P7
Huawei Ascend Y201
Huawei G620S
Huawei Honor 6
Huawei Honor 8
Huawei Honor 9
Huawei Mate 10 and Huawei Mate 10 Pro
Huawei Mate 8
Huawei Mate 9
Huawei P10
Huawei P10 Plus
Huawei P8
Huawei Sonic/Turkcell T20
Huawei TalkBand B1
iBerry Auxus Nuclea N2
iOcean X8
Jolla by Jolla
Kuoziro FT701W NFC Tablet
Kyocera Duraforce Pro
Kyocera Hydro Elite
Kyocera Hydro Icon
Kyocera Hydro Vibe
Kyocera Torque
Lenovo K800
Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2
Lenovo Vibe X3
LG Fx0
LG G Flex
LG G Flex 2
LG G Pro 2
LG G2
LG G3
LG G3 Beat/LG G3 S
LG G4
LG G5
LG G6
LG G7 ThinQ
LG Intuition
LG KU380-NFC
LG L50
LG L70
LG L90
LG Mach
LG Optimus 3D Max
LG Optimus 4X HD
LG Optimus Elite
LG Optimus G
LG Optimus L5
LG Optimus L7
LG Optimus LTE
LG Optimus LTE Tag
LG Optimus Net
LG Optimus Vu
LG Phoenix 2
LG T530 Ego
LG V10
LG V20
LG Viper
LG Volt
Lumigon T2
Lumigon T2 HD
Lumigon T3
Megafon Mint
Meizu MX3
Meizu MX4 Pro
Microsoft Lumia 640
Microsoft Lumia 650
Microsoft Lumia 950
Microsoft Lumia 950 XL
Moto G5S/Moto G5S Plus
Motorola Droid Maxx
Motorola Droid Mini
Motorola Droid Razr
Motorola Droid Razr HD
Motorola Droid Razr M
Motorola Droid Razr M 4G LTE
Motorola Droid Razr Maxx HD
Motorola Droid Turbo
Motorola Droid Turbo 2/Moto X Force
Motorola Droid Ultra
Motorola MC75A HF
Motorola Moto E4
Motorola Moto G5 Plus
Motorola Moto G6/Moto G6 Plus
Motorola Moto G7/Moto G7 Plus
Motorola Moto G8 Plus
Motorola Moto X
Motorola Moto X Play
Motorola Moto X4
Motorola Moto Z
Motorola Moto Z Play
Motorola Moto Z2 Force
Motorola Moto Z2 Play
Motorola One Action
Motorola One Vision
Motorola One Zoom
Motorola Photon Q 4G LTE
Motorola Razr D3
Motorola Razr i/MT788
MTS 975
Nextbit Robin
Nokia 3
Nokia 5
Nokia 6
Nokia 603
Nokia 700
Nokia 701
Nokia 801T
Nokia 808 PureView
Nokia C7/Astound
Nokia G50
Nokia Lumia 1020
Nokia Lumia 1520
Nokia Lumia 2520
Nokia Lumia 610 NFC
Nokia Lumia 620
Nokia Lumia 720
Nokia Lumia 730/735
Nokia Lumia 820
Nokia Lumia 830
Nokia Lumia 920
Nokia Lumia 925
Nokia Lumia 928
Nokia Lumia 930
Nokia Lumia Icon
Nokia N9
Nokia Oro
OnePlus 3
OnePlus 5
OnePlus 5T
OnePlus 6
OnePlus 7T
OnePlus 8 and OnePlus 8 Pro
OnePlus 8T
OnePlus One
Oppo Find 5
Oppo Find 7
Oppo N1
Oppo R15 Pro
Orange Infinity 996
Orange San Diego
OrientPhone P6 Plus
Panasonic BizPad
Panasonic Eluga
Panasonic Eluga Power
Pantech Discover
Pantech Sky Vega LTE
Pantech Sky Vega Racer
Philips Xenium W336
Porsche Design Huawei Mate 10
Porsche Design P’9981
Porsche Design P’9982
Prada phone by LG 3.0
Razer Phone
Razer Phone 2
Runbo X6
Samsung Ativ Odyssey
Samsung Ativ S Neo
Samsung Ativ SE
Samsung Galaxy A3
Samsung Galaxy A3 (2016)
Samsung Galaxy A3 (2017)
Samsung Galaxy A5 (2016)
Samsung Galaxy A5 (2017)
Samsung Galaxy A7 (2016)
Samsung Galaxy A7 (2017)
Samsung Galaxy A7 (2018)
Samsung Galaxy Ace 2
Samsung Galaxy Ace 4 LTE
Samsung Galaxy Ace Style
Samsung Galaxy Alpha
Samsung Galaxy Avant
Samsung Galaxy Axiom/Samsung Galaxy Admire 2
Samsung Galaxy C7
Samsung Galaxy C7 Pro
Samsung Galaxy C9 Pro
Samsung Galaxy Core 2
Samsung Galaxy Core Advance
Samsung Galaxy Core LTE
Samsung Galaxy Exhilarate
Samsung Galaxy Express
Samsung Galaxy Express 2
Samsung Galaxy Grand 2 LTE
Samsung Galaxy Grand Prime
Samsung Galaxy J5
Samsung Galaxy J7
Samsung Galaxy K Zoom
Samsung Galaxy Light
Samsung Galaxy Mega
Samsung Galaxy Mini 2
Samsung Galaxy Note
Samsung Galaxy Note 10/10+
Samsung Galaxy Note 3
Samsung Galaxy Note 4
Samsung Galaxy Note 5
Samsung Galaxy Note 8
Samsung Galaxy Note 9
Samsung Galaxy Note II
Samsung Galaxy Note20 Ultra
Samsung Galaxy Premier
Samsung Galaxy Round
Samsung Galaxy Rugby LTE/Pro
Samsung Galaxy S Advance
Samsung Galaxy S Blaze 4G
Samsung Galaxy S II
Samsung Galaxy S II Plus
Samsung Galaxy S III
Samsung Galaxy S III Mini
Samsung Galaxy S21, S21 Plus and S21 Ultra
Samsung Galaxy S22, S22+ and S22 Ultra
Samsung Galaxy S4
Samsung Galaxy S4 Active
Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini
Samsung Galaxy S4 Zoom
Samsung Galaxy S5
Samsung Galaxy S5 Active/Sport
Samsung Galaxy S5 Mini
Samsung Galaxy S6
Samsung Galaxy S6 Active
Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge
Samsung Galaxy S7
Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge
Samsung Galaxy S8
Samsung Galaxy S8 Plus
Samsung Galaxy Stratosphere II
Samsung Galaxy Victory 4G LTE
Samsung Galaxy Watch5 and Watch5 Pro
Samsung Galaxy XCover Pro
Samsung Galaxy Young
Samsung Galaxy Z Flip
Samsung Galaxy Z Flip4
Samsung Galaxy Z Fold3
Samsung Galaxy Z Fold4
Samsung S5230 NFC
Samsung S5260 NFC
Samsung SHW-A170K
Samsung Wave 578
Samsung Wave M
Samsung Wave Y
Samsung Windows RT Ativ Tablet
Samsung WP8 Ativ S
Sharp Aquos Phone Serie
Sharp Aquos Phone Zeta
Sharp RW-T107 NFC Tablet
Sharp RW-T110 NFC Tablet
Smartisan T2
Sonim XP1301 Core NFC
Sonim XPand NFC
Sony Digital Paper DPT-RP1
Sony SWR10 SmartBand
Sony Vaio Fit
Sony Xperia Acro S
Sony Xperia AX
Sony Xperia C5 Ultra
Sony Xperia E3 Dual
Sony Xperia Ion
Sony Xperia L
Sony Xperia M
Sony Xperia M2
Sony Xperia M5
Sony Xperia P
Sony Xperia S
Sony Xperia Sola
Sony Xperia SP
Sony Xperia T
Sony Xperia T2 Ultra
Sony Xperia Tablet Z
Sony Xperia V
Sony Xperia VL
Sony Xperia XZ Premium
Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact
Sony Xperia XZs
Sony Xperia Z
Sony Xperia Z Ultra
Sony Xperia Z1
Sony Xperia Z1 Compact
Sony Xperia Z2
Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet
Sony Xperia Z3
Sony Xperia Z3 Compact
Sony Xperia Z5
Sony Xperia ZL
Sony Xperia ZR
TazTag TazPad
TazTag TPH-One
The Toughphone Defender
THL 5000
Toughshield R-500
Toughshield T700
Turkcell MaxiPRO5
Turkcell T11/ZTE Racer II
Turkcell T40
Umi Cross
Umi X2S
Umidigi X
Vertu Constellation
Vertu Ti
Vodafone Smart 4 Power
Vodafone Smart 4 Turbo
Vodafone Smart III
Xiaomi Mi 2A
Xiaomi Mi 5 and Mi 5 Pro
Xiaomi Mi Mix
Xiaomi Mi Mix 2
Xiaomi Mi Note 2
Xiaomi Mi3
Xiaomi Poco X3 NFC
Xolo X900
Yota Devices YotaPhone (2014)
Yulong Coolpad 8870 NFC
Zopo ZP998
ZTE Axon
ZTE Blade II
ZTE Flash
ZTE GoTa GH800
ZTE Grand X IN
ZTE Kis
ZTE Nubia Z5
ZTE Orbit
ZTE PF200
ZTE R233
ZTE Turkcell MaxiPLUS5

n0nce has a point, people don't want to be online at all when they are dealing with their seed words.
Device with CryptoPlatz app needs to be online to download and install it, so desktop app is must have option for everyone.
Airplane mode but most people could make a mistake and just used app online.

Can you tell me what android version is oldest supported by your app?
Older phones might not be able to install app so that could be one more issue I faced before with other Android apps.

Hi

I agree with you, better to have more than one card. Depends of how much cryptocurrency you have, $ 49 by card make sense.

For now our app is only for iOS and Android, but soon we will have a version for desktop. So you can use any NFC reader/writer to connect on your desktop.

And yes, you can do all operations offline, airplane mode for example (we recommend this on app)

You need to decide what is better, leave your current seed only on paper or type the seed on CryptoPlatz App to save encrypted on the card, offline.

My reply to this would be that you can have multiple pieces of paper / multiple backups for just pennies, so if one backup location burns down, you have another backup elsewhere. That's good practice anyway (e.g. in a flood, that metal plate can easily be flushed out of your home), but too expensive to do with expensive metal cards.

Now, here it gets tricky. How do I write my seed phrase to this device, that is supposed to be super offline and super safe, whilst at the same time needing to use my phone for the process? I will never ever type my seed phrase into a phone app, so what to do?
On paper, I can write with a pen, and even a USB thumb drive is writeable by a live Tails OS. Would I need an external NFC transceiver for my offline PC? Does such thing exist and if so, is that open-source in its hardware and software / drivers?

Unfortunately, offline.

Now we are giving 50% discount exclusive for Indiegogo campaign, CryptoPlatz Vault now is €49,00. The campaign will finish in less than 30 days.

Thank you for advices

I don't know how much is production cost going to be to assemble Crypto Platz, and that is probably depending on location of country you are ordering all the source materials.
For Indiegogo campaign price of $50 would be much better, and it's comparable with stainless steel plates and some other cards that store seed words.
I am not sure if I would pre-order this card right now before I see some early testing reviews, but you could give reduced price and start spreading the word on twitter and social media.

ok I will

OP it's better if you compile all response in a single post rather than making several posts for several responses. Like you did 1, 2, 3, 4. We all are abide by some unofficial rules which you will find here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/unofficial-list-of-official-bitcointalkorg-rules-guidelines-faq-703657

Anyway good luck with your project.

Hi Mbitr

Thank you for your advice! You are correct!

Best
www.cryptoplatz.ch

I would have a good look at a few factors -
1. Costs - production, postage, website, wages, advertising and anything thing else - don’t forget anything !
2. Your DIRECT competitors prices
3. Future of the company and product - will you be producing version 2, limited editions etc
Have you produced a business plan? If not, do one - it may sound boring, but it will help.
Hope this helps and importantly, don’t sell yourself short 

Hi

The CryptoPlatz App and Card (vault) accept any text (passwords, mnemonics, 12 words, 24 words, bip39...) in any language (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese...).

If you use a password to encrypt, the text will be encypted with AES-256. Does not matter what text is it.

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I agree with you, but save encrypted it is a good feature. But, if somebody don't want to encrypt, he can save in plain text, like metal plate.

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We have published our open source code on GitHub

https://github.com/cryptoplatz-vault/cryptoplatz

There is a link on website too for the GitHub
https://www.cryptoplatz.ch/

Transparency + liberty of choice!

---

Hi

I need your help again from all of you. What do you think will be a good price to sell? Our plain is to sell for $ 100,00 But we would like to know your opinion.

If we change the Indiegogo campaign for example to $ 50,00 are you going to buy on Indiegogo today?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

I don't think there is any universally perfect solution. We all try and give the best. While I don't understand everything that OP is trying to do but I feel that he is trying something on top of the existing options we have. Every good initiative worth trying.



I was looking at the differences. These comparisons between a software run device and a piece of metal is actually not relevant at all.

A metal really does not need to have encrypted. With a cleaver combination someone easily can hide some information which even if it ends up to the wrong guy still they can not get the idea of what was there.
In a metal sheet it's obviously does not make sense to have password.
Well nothing has forever warranty or guarantee
Open source of course nothing to do with a piece of metal.

Yes, but they can't have my coins if I have one or more strong passphrases on top of my paper or metal plate.
CryptoPlatz is encrypted, but if customer used weak password that it can be hacked and extracted by someone who knows how to do it.
I am not saying CryptoPlatzdon't have some advantages, but it's certainly not universally perfect solution.

Wait a minute, if password is only optional than there is no real difference compared to regular paper or metal plate.

I guess you could create some free campaign or beta testing for this prototype PVC cards, and if everything works fine you could probably collect funds easier on indiegogo.
Problem I have with stainless steel material over NFC chip is that it could block the antenna signal and not work in the real life.

Hi

I agree with you, better to have multiple options to backup.

Without the password, anyone that gets their hands on the card, can read the information (in this case works like cryptosteel)

Good to know you like the warranty forever.

The question is also what is stored. Is it a plain text (words) or for example entropy (as seed words <-> entropy are exchangeable). But it would require an algorithm inside the application which would "understand" the seed words (verify checksum etc). And I suppose it would not support seeds other than BIP39, maybe would be even limited to English dictionary. Much simpler would be to store any text provided by user, without parsing it.

I don't think I've ever seen any manufacturer that offers such a thing, so that's nice for a change but if I understood everything correctly, we shouldn't solely rely on Crypto Platz ^{[e.g. if someone steals it, we have nothing to use for the decryption process (I do know we can purchase multiple metal cards but unfortunately, it costs a lot and it seems there's no discount for getting multiple cards)]} and it'd be best if it's used in conjunction with other known methods ^{[not just multiple copies of the same form of backup]}.

• Quote from: cryptoplatz on October 05, 2022, 01:11:15 PM
  But CryptoPlatz App are focus on the end user, that need to keep his "seed passphrase" store safe, but don't have the skills to do this alone.
  
  Quote from: cryptoplatz on October 05, 2022, 05:43:27 PM
  I agree with you, it is important to have more than one backup of seed recovery phrase
  

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Am I correct in assuming that without the password, anyone that gets their hands on the metal card in question, can easily decrypt or rather access the information that's stored in it?

I agree with you, it is important to have more than one backup of seed recovery phrase

When compare with metal plat, there are a lot of benefit, but the most important is you can save the passphrase encrypted with AES-256. So if anyone put the hands on the card, they can't read the passphrase.

Take a look in the post comparing the pros and cons: https://www.cryptoplatz.ch/post/safe-guard-your-crypto-assets-with-fool-proof-seed-phrase-storage-1

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/25ca25_a9bb756c121d4f05ac282ab6793706e7~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_740,h_1130,al_c,q_90,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/25ca25_a9bb756c121d4f05ac282ab6793706e7~mv2.png

I don't think anyone with crypto for long time is going to have their passphrase only in a piece of paper or in digital format with single point of access.

What benefit does it bring over saving passphrase on a metal plat or any other fire resistance methods available?

Hi

Yes, you are right. The card is not to spend crypto, there is another options to this, like Coinbase Card and Binance Card.

CryptoPlatz Card it is to save you passphrase or mnemonic on a device more resistant than a piece of paper.

The password is optional, if you use, will be encrypted.

You can use PGP and others ways, you are right again. But CryptoPlatz App are focus on the end user, that need to keep his "seed passphrase" store safe, but don't have the skills to do this alone.

 Let me know, where you save your passphrase today, on a paper?

Remember, our app will be open source on GitHub, so anyone can read and copy.

But more important, if you know the password used to encrypt the data (seed), you can decrypt using AES-256 algorithm.

So you don't need our app, it just exist just to be easy to use. 

After reading about the card i see it's only for storage and we can't use it to spend or deposit bitcoins. The main idea is to save a passphrase, mnemonic, or passwords. And it has a limit of 888 characters.

To access to the data we need the APP and the password, if we forget the password then all our data will be gone.

From my point of view it doesn't worth to spend money on a hardware to storage data with a password, there are a lot of ways to do that. Even we can use PGP to encrypt any data  and then Decrypt it with a key.

I don't say the product is bad, it has some great features, but if i will have a crypto card i would use one that allows me to make payments.

Hi, I understand your question, thank you for that, it help us a lot, let me share my view:

Abou this: "Ok that is better, but I am careful with anything that uses NFC, that is just short range antenna, so in theory it can be hacked."
1) We use NTAG424 that is focus in security
2) The information (seed) is encrypted with AES-256 (same of Bitcoin)
3) You can put the card inside a RFID/NFC Blocker (We will provide that, thank you)
4) If somebody put the hands in you paper or cryptosteel, he can read and stole your crypto. But if you store your seed in CryptoPlatz Card, he can't ready and stole, because is encrypted.

"Card on this video doesn't look like it's made from stainless steel to me."
1) Yes, you are correct. This is a prototype in PVC. Because that we are on https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cryptoplatz-card to manufactory in metal stainless.

About competitors I agree with you too.

I will lock the other topic, tnks.

Hi

Thank you for your question, this help us a lot! We are using NTAG424 from NXP, industry leader on segment. The technical specification is in https://www.cryptoplatz.ch/support

I'm copying here:

This is the specification of Crypto Platz card:

NFC Chip: NXP NTAG424 DNA

NFC Standard: SO/IEC 14443-A

NFC Forum: Type 4

Universal Compatibility: Yes

UID (Unique ID): 7 bytes

Weight: 6g - like a credit card.

Size: 85.5mm X 54mm X 0.84mm (3.37 inches x 2.16 inches x 0.034 inches) - like a credit card.

Total memory: 416 bytes

Available Memory: 256 bytes

Communication Rate: 848 kbit/s

Data Encryption: AES-256

File system compliant with ISO 7816-4

Write Endurance minimum: 200,000 cycles

Data Retention minimum: 50 years

Material: Metal stainless

Temperature: -55 +125 °C (-67 +302 °F)

Supporting Secure Unique NFC Message (SUN), which enable security and encryption, such as: advanced anti-counterfeiting, secured sensitive data applications, secure login and authentication.

Compatible with all NFC Smartphones, NFC Tablets, and ISO14443-A NFC Readers.

Data sheet: https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/NT4H2421Gx.pdf

Looking at that example page: https://www.shopnfc.com/en/content/6-nfc-tags-specs

Would you tell which kind of tag do you use? How about data retention, could you guarantee the data will be “safe” after 11 years?

I agree that there are other cards with the same purpose, as mentioned above, but the big difference here is the idea of an unbreakable, stainless, resistant, and durable "card". Am I right?

What makes it compatible with wallet or not?
In my opinion you just use NFC to transfer some data to the card (so you have NFC chip in/on the card) and as it could be any data, it has nothing to do with BIP39 compability.
And as I understand, the same application is needed to read from NFC chip and restore the content, right? That would be very very very risky. Now, on market we have in general Tile trackers and Apple AirTags. In the past there was also TrackR - one year ago they stopped supporting their product, removed apps from the mobile stores and suddenly all the products they sold during last years became a plastic junk.

Ok that is better, but I am careful with anything that uses NFC, that is just short range antenna, so in theory it can be hacked.

Card on this video doesn't look like it's made from stainless steel to me.
I would remove word Crypto from card or add something like CP shortcut with logo, to avoid getting attention from bad people.

No, I am sure Satochip/Satodime/SeedKeeer and one other company (can't remember the name) have cards who can be used only for storing recovery phrase.
Maybe they are not made from stainless steel but they work in similar way like Crypto Platz.

PS
Please lock your other topic.
There is no need to have multiple topics with same content in forum.

Thank you! 

Hi

I understand your concern, but let me explain:

1) You can use any app like (NFC tools) to use our card (it is industry standard) to write and read information stored on the card

2) CryptoPlatz app will be open source, so anyone can download and use it.

For now, it is in test, so please take a look on this video

https://youtu.be/KRzsZbiBLVI

There are similar apps, but they are cryptocurrency wallet. CryptoPlatz it is not a wallet, it is a storage to save you seed recovery phrase. CryptoPlatz it is compatible with Trezor, Ledger, Exodus, TrustWallet and any other wallet that demand you to save the seed recovery phrase on a paper.

Thank you for your view, help us a lot!

How exactly do we enter words into this Crypto Platz Metal Card?
If this is done only with your app in digital form with encryption, that means we probably can't recover seed words in any other way, so I see this a single point of failure.
I like that stainless steel is used, but I personally prefer entering seed words directly in physical form with engraving, and I think there are other cards that work in similar way like yours.
Current price of $100 is to high for me, until I see some stress testing and code review.

Looks like fantastic project as you are implementing the way to protect the seed phrase.

Hi guys!

Check it out the product that we are going to launch

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cryptoplatz-card

More information on our site: https://www.cryptoplatz.ch/

FAQ:
https://www.cryptoplatz.ch/support

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/25ca25_c0596fd7f0204f248b6c73111a27a5dd~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_307,h_500,al_c,q_85,enc_auto/app_card_500_white.png


Crypto Platz Metal Card

+ Resistant to fire, water, bugs, shock wave and rust (better than a piece of paper)

+ Warranty forever

+ Encrypt your seed recovery phrase with AES-256

+ Keep it offline

+ Open source app (if you want to use)

+ Easy to use with NFC (no more metal letters)

Compare Crypto Platz Card with others options:
https://www.cryptoplatz.ch/post/comparing-seed-phrase-backup