Innovative Poker idea/opportunity | Bitcointalksearch.org

asuryan180

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 16, 2015, 12:48:29 PM

Funny, this is a suggestion for site owners ... getting a lot of half-assed opinion from players who've never played with insurance.

No, it is not profitable to shove with air, because only the hand that is ahead can buy insurance. If you shove with air, or a draw, and are called with bottom pair, only bottom pair can buy insurance against your suck-out. Air-ball shover is swinging in the breeze on a pure gamble ... and bottom pair no longer has downside.

You have got a horrible little attitude, maybe make that clear in the title and thread it is for "site owners' and get ready to bump daily. Doesn't matter if they haven't played insurance they are telling you their opinion, be grateful you even have one from them because it is all you're getting. No site owner is going to enable insurance on their site because someone thinks everything revolves around them and has the amazing idea 'to them', they will decided against for the reason these so called half-assed opinions have helped you with.

fox19891989

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Suddenly I remember when I watched High stakes poker season 4, he bought insurance for many times, so I think it is not only the choice of Chinese casinos and poker houses, US casinos also offer it too, and casinos can earn a lot from insurance fees, your view is very great, I like it, if any poiker houses make profits from your idea, they should share some profits to you. Grin

And I agree with you, internet connestion is shitty slow in China, especially surfing English sites, when I lived in China, I couldn't access FB, TWITTER, and so forth, and access gamble sites are toooooo slow in China. Angry

twister

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 16, 2015, 09:35:52 AM

Quote from: twister on May 16, 2015, 06:01:33 AM

Same as me, I never use insurance on BJ either and I agree insurance sucks the life out of gambling, if a player don't have the guts to go all in without insurance then he should just quit gambling once and for all.

And I think it can be abused also using shills, doesn't really helps the site in anyway either.

I once held this view too, and it largely came from a prejudice arising from lack of experience.

And then I found myself in China, with a shitty internet connection, and the only games available being local poker rooms.

And the insurance aspect drove me nuts, because I didn't understand it, KNEW it was -EV, blasphemy to 'pure' East Texas poker, and it slowed the game down something awful. But in time I realized people were playing their hands differently - they were shoving earlier, either for value or bluff, due to the availability of insurance. Once I figured this out, and began playing this new game, I began crushing like never before.

And I met professional grinders, both in person and online, the guys who can't be bothered playing rinky-dink btc sites, and the handful i spoke to all concur: their profitability is higher with an insurance option.

Right now there are at least a dozen generic btc poker sites, offering absolutely nothing unique - just generically running freerolls while they cast about looking for a means to increase traffic. A few sites have given up and are for sale. I'm just thinking one of these sites might want to give this a try, rather than giving up altogether ...

I am not against getting it implemented, I was just saying that I don't see myself using it. If the sites see potential in this idea they should go for it, but there are non-btc poker sites which have been running for a while now and afaik none of them has this feature, do you think it is because they're not aware of it? I think they are but they didn't see any profit in for the site to add it.

And as the guy above pointed out, I don't think it would be that easy to add, they'd have to re-figure out their software or install another one which has this feature already added to it.

Bralex

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 16, 2015, 09:43:00 AM

Quote from: Bralex on May 16, 2015, 03:14:30 AM

Not sure how innovative it is if it is already happening on Chinese sites/ Casino's ...

I haven't seen it implemented on any English sites - if you know of one please tell me, because I'll definitely check it out.

And I certainly haven't seen it on any btc sites. So in that way it definitely would be innovative. Now, would it garner any traffic? That I don't know. I'm just thinking there are half a dozen start-up btc poker with little to loose in trying ...

No I haven't seen it on any English sites from what I can recall, yes it would be innovative to btc poker for sure but will it work. Not sure, but.. After thinking about it, it maybe worth a try to do something different to what the norm is doing because lets face it the 'norm' is not really doing much in the poker scene so if they can implement it then they could try I guess but they are mainly the same software and from speaking with admin on one or two there is very little these guys can actually change on their site.

WhatTheGox

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The sucks outs are what people on tilt though remember.... hey i like to be insured when playing i used to use that site i mentioned, it helped with tilt but was costly to insure.

Indamuck

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Funny, this is a suggestion for site owners ... getting a lot of half-assed opinion from players who've never played with insurance.

No, it is not profitable to shove with air, because only the hand that is ahead can buy insurance. If you shove with air, or a draw, and are called with bottom pair, only bottom pair can buy insurance against your suck-out. Air-ball shover is swinging in the breeze on a pure gamble ... and bottom pair no longer has downside.

WhatTheGox

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 15, 2015, 08:27:11 PM

Lets face it, there are too many btc poker sites, and everyone is at a loss on how to innovate.

Here is an answer/opportunity that is already being used (so I've heard) by a few obscure sites. And I think it is an idea could drive high stakes cash play.

That is, a site should have insurance on offer to players that are 'all-in.' Insurance sells at a modest mark-up - it is a built-in profit center for the house, and is valued by players who can use it to smooth out their results.

Personally I have strong preference to play games that have insurance on offer - it allows me to play higher stakes and damper the inevitable bad runs.

I know in China live poker games insurance is always on offer, and I've heard that some Chinese online sites also offer insurance to its players. It would require a modest amount of programming, and some familiarization for players who have not used insurance in the past. Anyway insurance is never mandatory for players. In fact, if a site generates good revenue from insurance, perhaps they don't have to charge rake, so in that way cash players have an even greater incentive to play.

I would play at such a site ... who's going to bring it?

insureplay.com was 3rd party site which did this in the fiat poker world but eventually shut i guess due to people manipulating the system because it was a reasonably popular site and idea for a while. Having insurance built directly into the site is interesting sure but will kill more action in the games make them less profitable to play. From a shark/pro point of view its a bad idea, for a fish its great.

arallmuus

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 16, 2015, 09:43:00 AM

And I certainly haven't seen it on any btc sites. So in that way it definitely would be innovative. Now, would it garner any traffic? That I don't know. I'm just thinking there are half a dozen start-up btc poker with little to loose in trying ...

Innovative , Yes
Garner traffic , Yes
Getting reveneu, Perhaps No

Some sites need to have a large traffic before implementing this and also not to mention that it has to be in large stake room to ensure some gain from the rakeback as well or else this sytem could not be sustainable for the sites in a long term. Basically someone could shove in a bad card to all-in with nothing to lose though since there is insurance for him to use

P.S : if you could, please provide me a calculation about this insurance because all I know the insurance is 1:1 which I dont know how to calculate if it will be profitable for the site. In my thoughts, Someone could won alot more with "insurance" then playing "poker" if he keeps on shoving in bad cards for all-in

Indamuck

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Quote from: Bralex on May 16, 2015, 03:14:30 AM

Not sure how innovative it is if it is already happening on Chinese sites/ Casino's ...

I haven't seen it implemented on any English sites - if you know of one please tell me, because I'll definitely check it out.

And I certainly haven't seen it on any btc sites. So in that way it definitely would be innovative. Now, would it garner any traffic? That I don't know. I'm just thinking there are half a dozen start-up btc poker with little to loose in trying ...

Indamuck

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Quote from: huadylmate on May 16, 2015, 09:24:17 AM

From all the people who have gave you their concerns you choose to cry about someone that stated the truth. Welcome to my ignore list when you act like a little girl get treated like one.

Welcome to my ignore list. Have a nice day.

Indamuck

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Quote from: twister on May 16, 2015, 06:01:33 AM

Same as me, I never use insurance on BJ either and I agree insurance sucks the life out of gambling, if a player don't have the guts to go all in without insurance then he should just quit gambling once and for all.

And I think it can be abused also using shills, doesn't really helps the site in anyway either.

I once held this view too, and it largely came from a prejudice arising from lack of experience.

And then I found myself in China, with a shitty internet connection, and the only games available being local poker rooms.

And the insurance aspect drove me nuts, because I didn't understand it, KNEW it was -EV, blasphemy to 'pure' East Texas poker, and it slowed the game down something awful. But in time I realized people were playing their hands differently - they were shoving earlier, either for value or bluff, due to the availability of insurance. Once I figured this out, and began playing this new game, I began crushing like never before.

And I met professional grinders, both in person and online, the guys who can't be bothered playing rinky-dink btc sites, and the handful i spoke to all concur: their profitability is higher with an insurance option.

Right now there are at least a dozen generic btc poker sites, offering absolutely nothing unique - just generically running freerolls while they cast about looking for a means to increase traffic. A few sites have given up and are for sale. I'm just thinking one of these sites might want to give this a try, rather than giving up altogether ...

huadylmate

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 16, 2015, 09:20:52 AM

Quote from: asuryan180 on May 16, 2015, 12:30:44 AM

Oh goodie look at all what the sites can do for you! It is exciting when you think everything evolves around ones self. This being something you want so bad and think it would be a bit of easy programming then go ahead and build a site. The sites lower down the food chain which you are aiming this to, cannot and will not implement that for you I am afraid, also because they can't.

Welcome to my ignore list ass-clown ...

From all the people who have gave you their concerns you choose to cry about someone that stated the truth. Welcome to my ignore list when you act like a little girl get treated like one.

Indamuck

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Quote from: asuryan180 on May 16, 2015, 12:30:44 AM

Oh goodie look at all what the sites can do for you! It is exciting when you think everything evolves around ones self. This being something you want so bad and think it would be a bit of easy programming then go ahead and build a site. The sites lower down the food chain which you are aiming this to, cannot and will not implement that for you I am afraid, also because they can't.

Welcome to my ignore list ass-clown ...

fox19891989

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 15, 2015, 08:27:11 PM

Lets face it, there are too many btc poker sites, and everyone is at a loss on how to innovate.

Here is an answer/opportunity that is already being used (so I've heard) by a few obscure sites. And I think it is an idea could drive high stakes cash play.

That is, a site should have insurance on offer to players that are 'all-in.' Insurance sells at a modest mark-up - it is a built-in profit center for the house, and is valued by players who can use it to smooth out their results.

Personally I have strong preference to play games that have insurance on offer - it allows me to play higher stakes and damper the inevitable bad runs.

I know in China live poker games insurance is always on offer, and I've heard that some Chinese online sites also offer insurance to its players. It would require a modest amount of programming, and some familiarization for players who have not used insurance in the past. Anyway insurance is never mandatory for players. In fact, if a site generates good revenue from insurance, perhaps they don't have to charge rake, so in that way cash players have an even greater incentive to play.

I would play at such a site ... who's going to bring it?

It is a good idea, yes, when I watch some poker videos, the video commentator says in China live poker, many people prefer buying insurance, and it's a profitable way for poker house.

twister

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Quote from: Bralex on May 16, 2015, 03:14:30 AM

Not sure how innovative it is if it is already happening on Chinese sites/ Casino's , I am sure poker sites would have had this idea but it kind of takes the gamble out of gambling. I have never seen it on over 10 class fiat poker sites that have many quality thinkers/staff and 5 btc poker sites that are totally average. Not one has this insurance but who am I to say it can't work I will just say I would not choose to play it and if forced by the site I would not play on the site. Note: I never use insurance on blackjack for this reason.

Same as me, I never use insurance on BJ either and I agree insurance sucks the life out of gambling, if a player don't have the guts to go all in without insurance then he should just quit gambling once and for all.

And I think it can be abused also using shills, doesn't really helps the site in anyway either.

huadylmate

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Pass already been thought of and rejected as it is not poker with insurance, if it worked and was great sites like poker stars and the big boys would use it you can't tell me they have not thought about it and decided against.

Bralex

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Not sure how innovative it is if it is already happening on Chinese sites/ Casino's , I am sure poker sites would have had this idea but it kind of takes the gamble out of gambling. I have never seen it on over 10 class fiat poker sites that have many quality thinkers/staff and 5 btc poker sites that are totally average. Not one has this insurance but who am I to say it can't work I will just say I would not choose to play it and if forced by the site I would not play on the site. Note: I never use insurance on blackjack for this reason.

neoneros

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I can draw your avatar!

If you insure it, where is the gamble and game? You could as wel give part of your ad revenue as game money and those who win will win, those who lose have only lost the free given game money.

PenguinFire

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That Darn Cat

,This is an innovative idea but I am not sure how it would play out. Plus, the startup cost would be up there in numbers.

asuryan180

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Quote from: Indamuck on May 15, 2015, 11:48:13 PM

Quote from: bitbaby on May 15, 2015, 10:54:50 PM

The ideas been here from a long time but the traditional poker players feel that it takes away Poker's beauty and it will affect their profitability and even if it is made available many players might still choose to not take the insurance.

But that being said it may protect some players from bad beats, so I don't mind if sites implement this but I don't see it getting famous or that it will attract high stakes players to the site.

Personally I feel if a player is not comfortable playing at 'no limit' tables and worried about making poor decisions and going all in, maybe they should stick with 'limit texas hold'em' tables where Preflop and On-flop bets & raises are same as the big blind and on the turn and river size of bets and raises doubles.

Perhaps this is a common view among those who haven't played with insurance available. I was skeptical as well, until I played the games regularly, and came to learn that insurance changes the game in ways that I really like. I've found that I make more money, and more quickly, when I have insurance available. Note that insurance only becomes available when everyone is all-in ... so I've found I can get bigger pots more frequently, for one. Anyway, there are also benefits for the house, which can be redirected to attracting players ...

For example, a site that offers insurance may in turn be able to offer no rake. Would a no rake table not appeal to you? I suspect it would ...

Oh goodie look at all what the sites can do for you! It is exciting when you think everything evolves around ones self. This being something you want so bad and think it would be a bit of easy programming then go ahead and build a site. The sites lower down the food chain which you are aiming this to, cannot and will not implement that for you I am afraid, also because they can't.

Indamuck

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Quote from: bitbaby on May 15, 2015, 10:54:50 PM

The ideas been here from a long time but the traditional poker players feel that it takes away Poker's beauty and it will affect their profitability and even if it is made available many players might still choose to not take the insurance.

But that being said it may protect some players from bad beats, so I don't mind if sites implement this but I don't see it getting famous or that it will attract high stakes players to the site.

Personally I feel if a player is not comfortable playing at 'no limit' tables and worried about making poor decisions and going all in, maybe they should stick with 'limit texas hold'em' tables where Preflop and On-flop bets & raises are same as the big blind and on the turn and river size of bets and raises doubles.

Perhaps this is a common view among those who haven't played with insurance available. I was skeptical as well, until I played the games regularly, and came to learn that insurance changes the game in ways that I really like. I've found that I make more money, and more quickly, when I have insurance available. Note that insurance only becomes available when everyone is all-in ... so I've found I can get bigger pots more frequently, for one. Anyway, there are also benefits for the house, which can be redirected to attracting players ...

For example, a site that offers insurance may in turn be able to offer no rake. Would a no rake table not appeal to you? I suspect it would ...

bitbaby

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Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

The ideas been here from a long time but the traditional poker players feel that it takes away Poker's beauty and it will affect their profitability and even if it is made available many players might still choose to not take the insurance.

But that being said it may protect some players from bad beats, so I don't mind if sites implement this but I don't see it getting famous or that it will attract high stakes players to the site.

Personally I feel if a player is not comfortable playing at 'no limit' tables and worried about making poor decisions and going all in, maybe they should stick with 'limit texas hold'em' tables where Preflop and On-flop bets & raises are same as the big blind and on the turn and river size of bets and raises doubles.

Indamuck

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Activity: 1120

Merit: 554

Lets face it, there are too many btc poker sites, and everyone is at a loss on how to innovate.

Here is an answer/opportunity that is already being used (so I've heard) by a few obscure sites. And I think it is an idea could drive high stakes cash play.

That is, a site should have insurance on offer to players that are 'all-in.' Insurance sells at a modest mark-up - it is a built-in profit center for the house, and is valued by players who can use it to smooth out their results.

Personally I have strong preference to play games that have insurance on offer - it allows me to play higher stakes and damper the inevitable bad runs.

I know in China live poker games insurance is always on offer, and I've heard that some Chinese online sites also offer insurance to its players. It would require a modest amount of programming, and some familiarization for players who have not used insurance in the past. Anyway insurance is never mandatory for players. In fact, if a site generates good revenue from insurance, perhaps they don't have to charge rake, so in that way cash players have an even greater incentive to play.

I would play at such a site ... who's going to bring it?

Topic: Innovative Poker idea/opportunity (Read 1292 times)