Inquiry regarding the banning of account trades of certain services.

Fivestar4everMVP

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 05:40:32 AM

Don't most exchange accounts fall under this category of account trading that is banned?
I am mostly referring to exchanges that require full KYC before depositing or trading like Coinbase, Kraken, Binance etc. If a member here is buying or selling 5–10 accounts of such a service, then they are definitely going against their ToS and probably using stolen identities for KYC or selling hacked accounts.

Should such posts be reported too, even when not listed yet?

Well, you have to first of all; realize that this forum is not decentralized, but the management solely grants freedom to all users to post and sell what ever they want, as long as they find a buyer.
In other words, we can say that Theymos doesn't want to censor what people post about here, and I believe that is why he introduced and implemented the trust system, which is like giving users the power to control services here, through the trust system; telling which service is a scam and which is not.

Reporting account trade posts to mods would really yield any positive result, except the seller is a proven scammer, then he or she can be banned, or still won't be banned, but tagged by users of forum.
Anybody can make any post of selling any account of any platform they want, but it will be foolishness on the part of another user to want to buy an exchange account when they can easily register and verify one themself.

blckhawk

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Even if those accounts that sell those accounts exists, there's still no guarantee that they're going to get a customer because most of the time, there's bound to be some people that's going to be scamming and that's definitely going to happen with these types of services. Hopefully it will get some action against those services though, it's probably really stupid of someone to fall for this kind of thing when you know already that there have been warnings about shady deals.

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 05:40:32 AM

Quote from: theymos on August 07, 2019, 02:06:24 PM

Services are added to this list when we come to believe that essentially no trades of such accounts are following our rules, which prohibit for example selling hacked accounts, accounts requiring KYC info, accounts created using stolen identities, accounts which cannot be legally traded, etc.

Don't most exchange accounts fall under this category of account trading that is banned?
I am mostly referring to exchanges that require full KYC before depositing or trading like Coinbase, Kraken, Binance etc. If a member here is buying or selling 5–10 accounts of such a service, then they are definitely going against their ToS and probably using stolen identities for KYC or selling hacked accounts.

Should such posts be reported too, even when not listed yet?

By all means, the accounts be reported and actions would definitely be taken against users offering such services. That’s still a provision Theymos have highlighted in that post. Having a valid argument and possibly evidence to support generally servers as a qualifier for such.

When it comes to full KYC before depositing, it doesn’t really become a question of if they’ll be banned or not, I think it’s just some means to subject you to what you would be ready to coupe with or not and it’s a fair practice rather than have you deposit and there after be requiring KYC to access them.
Meanwhile, it’s no hidden truth that, most of the services provided by CEX and Gambling services are subjected to a user per account term and having account sales could be related with identity theft but, you still have to prove it ain’t there account neither are they some third party that assists in the sales of clients accounts.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on June 20, 2024, 06:27:32 PM

I'm sure bitcointalk is heavily infiltrated by government agencies (for whatever reasons), and because of that it's important to keep a clean house if you know what I'm saying--and whether we all agree on what should be allowed here or not.

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hugeblack

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I reported some of them in the past and they were deleted, so you can try that, and if the topic is not deleted, create a thread about it in Reputation.
In the past there were some active accounts there like @EcuaMobi and @sandy-is-fine but I think a lot of people took over because these scammers are creating army of newbie accounts.

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In order for a moderator to know they need to remove a post or thread, the post/thread needs to be reported to a moderator. If no one has reported the posts/threads, the mods will likely not know the posts exists.

I do not think the digital accounts sub is particularly highly trafficked, so perhaps no one has reports these threads.

As a side note, many bad posts are worth one good posts, so if you happen to report several posts incorrectly, that is okay. You will receive feedback on your reports via the reporting being marked as "good" or bad" or the mods not taking action on your report for a long time (you will likely not receive a message directly from the mods about your reports). It is probably better to report posts you are unsure about, and if you get feedback you do not quite understand, at that point you might consider opening a thread in meta.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 05:40:32 AM

Quote from: theymos on August 07, 2019, 02:06:24 PM

Services are added to this list when we come to believe that essentially no trades of such accounts are following our rules, which prohibit for example selling hacked accounts, accounts requiring KYC info, accounts created using stolen identities, accounts which cannot be legally traded, etc.

Don't most exchange accounts fall under this category of account trading that is banned?

I would think so, and I'd also think it's important that any exchange accounts that require KYC not be sold here on the forum, and that if you see any for sale, send a report to the mods ASAP.

I'm sure bitcointalk is heavily infiltrated by government agencies (for whatever reasons), and because of that it's important to keep a clean house if you know what I'm saying--and whether we all agree on what should be allowed here or not.

PX-Z

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 04:36:27 PM

As you can see, there are just a few services that have been listed. It's as though trading other types of account (such as exchange accounts that require KYC) is still ok since they don't feature in the list, thus the confusion.

It is clearly mentioned on that quote already though just like _BlackStar said. Such topic question were already ask in the past here in meta thus i know and remembered.

You can check this rules too, as selling hacked accounts is prohibited too.

Quote from: theymos on October 21, 2018, 07:02:08 AM

Accounts on sites that require KYC such as bank accounts, PayPal, etc. are assumed to be hacked unless you explain why they're not hacked.

_BlackStar

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 04:36:27 PM

As you can see, there are just a few services that have been listed. It's as though trading other types of account (such as exchange accounts that require KYC) is still ok since they don't feature in the list, thus the confusion.

If we refer to their emphasis on prohibited criteria - then all accounts sold, especially those that require KYC information, should also be prohibited. There's no confusion - this should be very clear, meaning if a newbie does it they will be banned, while users above them could be warned before bann or have their posts deleted.

Quote

Services are added to this list when we come to believe that essentially no trades of such accounts are following our rules, which prohibit for example selling hacked accounts, accounts requiring KYC info, accounts created using stolen identities, accounts which cannot be legally traded, etc

So in conclusion - even if some other type of account is not on the list, but when it requires KYC information or something else then you should report it to the moderator to be handled. That much is clear - it is prohibited.

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 04:36:27 PM

As you can see, there are just a few services that have been listed. It's as though trading other types of account (such as exchange accounts that require KYC) is still ok since they don't feature in the list, thus the confusion.

That banned services you quoted above was updated 16 May, which is pretty recent. Maybe after this your thread has served its purpose, the banned services thread would be updated again.

I believe any services requiring KYC allows only one account per user. So, CEXs fall under this category unless theymos says otherwise.

JeromeTash

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Quote from: _act_ on June 20, 2024, 06:27:22 AM

Have you reported the post of someone selling verified exchange account and it was not deleted? I have not reported it before.

Not yet. That's why I am inquiring before looking like I am being too overzealous when reporting posts.

Quote from: PX-Z on June 20, 2024, 11:07:03 AM

Listed where/when? I don't understand if for what's the "listed" on.

Those threads of buying/selling kyc-required (most exchanges) accounts are obviously against the rules set on digital goods board and it should be reported.

I included the link in the OP, but I think you didn't see it. Let me quote for you the whole post

Quote from: theymos on August 07, 2019, 02:06:24 PM

Trading the accounts of these services is not allowed. Report anyone selling them. Newbies will be permanently banned; established members may be given warnings before being banned, but the relevant posts will be deleted.

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Services are added to this list when we come to believe that essentially no trades of such accounts are following our rules, which prohibit for example selling hacked accounts, accounts requiring KYC info, accounts created using stolen identities, accounts which cannot be legally traded, etc. If you have a really strong argument for how you're selling these accounts without violating our rules, create a topic in Meta explaining in detail, and we may consider either removing the service from this list or giving you a one-time exemption.

As you can see, there are just a few services that have been listed. It's as though trading other types of account (such as exchange accounts that require KYC) is still ok since they don't feature in the list, thus the confusion.

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Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on June 20, 2024, 03:37:52 PM

You have pretty much a good idea about these casinos and their terms of operation (which explains why you said everything above)...

I think JeromeTash was referring to centralized exchanges, not casino sites... Although, I suppose the same can be applied to KYC verified casino accounts as well.

Sandra_hakeem

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 05:40:32 AM

Don't most exchange accounts fall under this category of account trading that is banned?

For the most part, Yes.

Quote

I am mostly referring to exchanges that require full KYC before depositing or trading like Coinbase, Kraken, Binance etc. If a member here is buying or selling 5–10 accounts of such a service, then they are definitely going against their ToS and probably using stolen identities for KYC or selling hacked accounts.

You have pretty much a good idea about these ~~casinos~~ centralized exchanges and their terms of operation (which explains why you said everything above)... It's impossible for them to formulate just anything and get an approval from the casinos, what does that tell you? It's either they buy these fake identities from the dark web and manipulate with it or, those are hacked accounts.

Quote

Should such posts be reported too, even when not listed yet?

Don't wait for a validation. Always do what's right in the least possible chances that you have.

Alone055

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 05:40:32 AM

Should such posts be reported too, even when not listed yet?

This is enough to make things clear about such account trades:

Quote from: theymos on August 07, 2019, 02:06:24 PM

selling hacked accounts, accounts requiring KYC info, accounts created using stolen identities, accounts which cannot be legally traded, etc.

So yes, we should report such posts even if they are not listed because someone wouldn't buy a non-KYCed exchange account since it is useless, and someone selling a KYCed account is going against the rules because either the accounts being sold are hacked or are created using stolen identities and such accounts can't be legally traded.

LTU_btc

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I wasn't even aware that such list of banned services exists. And it looks very short. You raised good question. I'm wondering what is difference between selling FuboTV and let's say Netflix or DAZN accounts. Or N26 and Revolut. First isn't allowed and other is completely ok. I'm not even talking Bet365 accounts which is probably one of the most popular digital goods.
Almost all these services requires KYC and selling their accounts goes against ToS.

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Quote from: PX-Z on June 20, 2024, 11:07:03 AM

Listed where/when? I don't understand if for what's the "listed" on.

I believe OP tried to say that such type of posts should not be allowed on that board that's what I understood from his words. When a post/thread is posted then it will be available for everyone and OP wanted to say that such posts/threads should not be allowed to be posted in that board.

I have also noticed such account sales and those are obviously against the rules of this forum and such posts/threads shouldn't be allowed at any cost. I also believe that such users who consistently make such account sale related posts should get temp bans or permanent bans.

PX-Z

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 05:40:32 AM

Should such posts be reported too, even when not listed yet?

Listed where/when? I don't understand if for what's the "listed" on.

Those threads of buying/selling kyc-required (most exchanges) accounts are obviously against the rules set on digital goods board and it should be reported.

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Quote from: JeromeTash on June 20, 2024, 05:40:32 AM

Should such posts be reported too, even when not listed yet?

If I comprehend clearly what Theymos posts says, then it is that any services that doesn't follow the laid down rules as given, which in others words, one that appears to be an illegal sale you are free to post a report about it let whosoever is behind the account give a detailed explanation to that effect.

The digital goods board is open to the sells of any services however, it must be within the frame of legitimacy or that which is allowed around the community.

_act_

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Have you reported the post of someone selling verified exchange account and it was not deleted? I have not reported it before.

Not only exchanges but also gambling sites. I have seen many new accounts that have topics on selling of verified accounts like Stake and Bet365. Definitely something that requires KYC and selling it to another person should not be allowed.

But you suppose to bring up this topic if moderators marked your report as bad or left it unhandled.

JeromeTash

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I noticed some people trading accounts in the Digital goods board and there seems to be no clear-cut distinction on what is allowed and what is not, so I need some clarification.
In this list of banned services, I see a few of them that are banned. The list was updated probably last month to add a few more.

In the same post, Theymos then goes to say this;

Quote from: theymos on August 07, 2019, 02:06:24 PM

Services are added to this list when we come to believe that essentially no trades of such accounts are following our rules, which prohibit for example selling hacked accounts, accounts requiring KYC info, accounts created using stolen identities, accounts which cannot be legally traded, etc.

Don't most exchange accounts fall under this category of account trading that is banned?
I am mostly referring to exchanges that require full KYC before depositing or trading like Coinbase, Kraken, Binance etc. If a member here is buying or selling 5–10 accounts of such a service, then they are definitely going against their ToS and probably using stolen identities for KYC or selling hacked accounts.

Should such posts be reported too, even when not listed yet?

Topic: Inquiry regarding the banning of account trades of certain services. (Read 245 times)