Institutional money now nearer than ever

palle11

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Quote from: cellard on October 31, 2017, 11:54:55 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2017/10/31/bitcoin-futures-are-finally-here/#6389fec26a0d

You can click on there and read the press release. I think this will pass, it's not the SEC that regulates this, it's a different process from ETF's. I think we are still not ready for an ETF, but Bitcoin futures could be good. Some worry about price manipulation as similarly seen by gold. I argue Bitcoin is a much different asset and you can't manipulate it as much as gold. The supply is clear, the market is global and nonstop. Gold's supply is unclear, nobody knows what's the limit of gold or how much is out there. The markets are not as global and they take breaks.

Good times for Bitcoin holders ahead, once again. I think we'll see the ETF around 2020 with an active lightning network, and the march towards 6 figures a Bitcoin will begin.

This is looking like being possible with the way bitcoin is driving and taking over the whole place.

The world economy is tilting towards institutional money actually. I foresee a situation where some block of countries or continent would begin to rise against a particular currency, rejecting it as a means of exchange.

StephenJH

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Instituitonal money is smart and hot money Wink

If they gonna to invest big amounts this can be start point of mass adoption. Investors dont care about which part of portfolio is in token or coin future contracts. The only thing they are interested is green money and profit Wink

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: dothebeats on November 03, 2017, 06:38:00 AM

Well it's always nearer to bitcoin. The thing is no institutional investor wants to take a risk on a completely unstable asset that is bitcoin. With the influx of institutional investors, there would be a massive FOMO from people who don't really know what they're getting into resulting into an even bigger bubble that couldn't just hold out in the long run. Institutional investors coming in to invest in bitcoin can also alleviate the uncertainty that many average Joe's have with bitcoin, so all in all making bitcoin a viable investment that they can rely on in the long run since the coins would be completely diversified as more people hold coins.

I don't quite understand this part of your post. Do you mean that institutional investors are going to make prices more stable overall or their money will only create a bigger bubble that will pop up sooner or later? On the ICO issue, people who are involved in them should know the difference between such coins as Bitcoin or Ethereum and the ICO tokens they are buying in the hope of making insane profits. I want to say that, in my opinion, ICO scams can't seriously damage Bitcoin.

dothebeats

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Well it's always nearer to bitcoin. The thing is no institutional investor wants to take a risk on a completely unstable asset that is bitcoin. With the influx of institutional investors, there would be a massive FOMO from people who don't really know what they're getting into resulting into an even bigger bubble that couldn't just hold out in the long run. Institutional investors coming in to invest in bitcoin can also alleviate the uncertainty that many average Joe's have with bitcoin, so all in all making bitcoin a viable investment that they can rely on in the long run since the coins would be completely diversified as more people hold coins.

Quote from: Gozie51 on November 03, 2017, 05:19:03 AM

-snip
Bitcoin is a promising business to invest in. Cryptos as a whole are the new rave of the modern world.

But sadly, due to ETH and other big names in the crypto world's successful ICO, it's being abused to scam people out of their money resulting into uncertainty as to whether cryptos are viable investments or not.

Gozie51

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Quote from: cellard on November 01, 2017, 01:11:04 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 01, 2017, 12:40:52 PM

I hope so. The only manipulation so far I can see in bitcoins are those that we can see in stocks anyway with whales dumping here and such. Otherwise, it's pretty much dictated by the market.

Well this adds the risk of big bubbles forming, bigger than we've seen. With institutional money coming in, we will hit $10000 easily, this will make FOMOers jump on the ship too. We may get a bit too carried away and we may face big corrections, but the bottomline is: the fundamentals don't change. No matter how many ups and downs along the way, 21 million coin hardcoded limit will guarantee a perpetual long term increase in price. Demand is not going to magically stop, bubble bursts cycles part of the transition from fiat to bitcoin.

Exactly, fundamentals are never stopped , they eventually direct the market and make the technical indicators obey to its vision. If the vision of bitcoin is to hit $10000 by the end of next year, it must hit that target - thats fundamentals for you.

Bitcoin is a promising business to invest in. Cryptos as a whole are the new rave of the modern world.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: cellard on October 31, 2017, 11:54:55 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2017/10/31/bitcoin-futures-are-finally-here/#6389fec26a0d

You can click on there and read the press release. I think this will pass, it's not the SEC that regulates this, it's a different process from ETF's. I think we are still not ready for an ETF, but Bitcoin futures could be good. Some worry about price manipulation as similarly seen by gold. I argue Bitcoin is a much different asset and you can't manipulate it as much as gold. The supply is clear, the market is global and nonstop. Gold's supply is unclear, nobody knows what's the limit of gold or how much is out there. The markets are not as global and they take breaks.

Good times for Bitcoin holders ahead, once again. I think we'll see the ETF around 2020 with an active lightning network, and the march towards 6 figures a Bitcoin will begin.

From the way I see it, its a further creation of trouble for bitcoin. Its true that future trading will create another massive inflow of people into the space based on the article by crediting a mere announcement for the increase in the price of bitcoin by over $200 this is good to outsiders but looking beyond the short term it will only further the already fragile volatility status of bitcoin. It will then continue to make everybody start chasing what is not because when you bank on the future, you want to pattern and control the present to bring the future into reality. This will then give solid that bitcoin is a bubble that is waiting to burst because I don't see anyone banking that bitcoin price will crash.

Nameless27

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Quote from: Hell-raiser on November 03, 2017, 02:52:09 AM

Quote from: Reez on November 02, 2017, 03:55:08 PM

Institutional money has and always will be around but the thing is, they are losing their power. Centralized governments with their centralized currencies and companies and institutions. These all have failure points and will eventually fail, especially because of human greed. Bitcoin transcends that and promotes saving on the network with a scarce digital asset.

I think people mean something different when they mention institutional money. They most likely speak about institutional investors, not so much about money as such. These investors may have no actual money in their pockets because they have everything invested in different assets such as stocks or commodities. In this manner, institutional investors going into Bitcoin basically means them switching assets, not them going from fiat to Bitcoin literally.

I got your point clearly, I think we do have the same assessment on this. Because fiat(money) can’t do anything like bitcoin, the “institutional investors” or we can all them “mainstream or stock investors” are the one moving towards bitcoin but for sure not fully as you said. They will be on both side on this one and will not totally leave the norms they’ve been investing for decades.

Is it a bad thing? I don’t seem to comprehend if it is but to manipulate bitcoin on the future is not always be possible because of freelance investors make a huge number on market.

fromholland

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Quote from: seizetehday5 on November 01, 2017, 12:55:37 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 01, 2017, 12:40:52 PM

I hope so. The only manipulation so far I can see in bitcoins are those that we can see in stocks anyway with whales dumping here and such. Otherwise, it's pretty much dictated by the market.

Whales have much power yet in this industry and that is probably due to its infancy and amount of $$ going around. When more institutional money comes in this will only help curb stomp out that behaviour and the market

can react more naturally moving forward.

I'm pretty sure the big institutional investors will become the new whales then.

Kingofbitcoin12345

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Agree on point that supply of gold is unmeasurable and bitcoin is transparent and have higher value than gold.. This manipulative issue is been in the the talks/discussion for many years but bitcoin never changed beyong the pressures from government and the banking system.. It is still decentralized but I know regulating is an option but the market itself will not be touch that’s for sure..

gredisgold88

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Quote from: cellard on October 31, 2017, 11:54:55 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2017/10/31/bitcoin-futures-are-finally-here/#6389fec26a0d

You can click on there and read the press release. I think this will pass, it's not the SEC that regulates this, it's a different process from ETF's. I think we are still not ready for an ETF, but Bitcoin futures could be good. Some worry about price manipulation as similarly seen by gold. I argue Bitcoin is a much different asset and you can't manipulate it as much as gold. The supply is clear, the market is global and nonstop. Gold's supply is unclear, nobody knows what's the limit of gold or how much is out there. The markets are not as global and they take breaks.

Good times for Bitcoin holders ahead, once again. I think we'll see the ETF around 2020 with an active lightning network, and the march towards 6 figures a Bitcoin will begin.

seems good, but price monopoly is based bid bitcoin on exchange, if bitcoin have price 6 digit by 2020. then data txid or storage blockchain will swell in each user drive. i hope new systematic in bitcoin. where every transaction, pay storage every 100 mb = 1 ubtc. basically this will be a positive flow, and has a possibility in the next 25 years 1 satoshi is 1 dollar.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: Reez on November 02, 2017, 03:55:08 PM

Institutional money has and always will be around but the thing is, they are losing their power. Centralized governments with their centralized currencies and companies and institutions. These all have failure points and will eventually fail, especially because of human greed. Bitcoin transcends that and promotes saving on the network with a scarce digital asset.

I think people mean something different when they mention institutional money. They most likely speak about institutional investors, not so much about money as such. These investors may have no actual money in their pockets because they have everything invested in different assets such as stocks or commodities. In this manner, institutional investors going into Bitcoin basically means them switching assets, not them going from fiat to Bitcoin literally.

Reez

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Institutional money has and always will be around but the thing is, they are losing their power. Centralized governments with their centralized currencies and companies and institutions. These all have failure points and will eventually fail, especially because of human greed. Bitcoin transcends that and promotes saving on the network with a scarce digital asset.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: cellard on November 01, 2017, 01:11:04 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 01, 2017, 12:40:52 PM

I hope so. The only manipulation so far I can see in bitcoins are those that we can see in stocks anyway with whales dumping here and such. Otherwise, it's pretty much dictated by the market.

Well this adds the risk of big bubbles forming, bigger than we've seen. With institutional money coming in, we will hit $10000 easily, this will make FOMOers jump on the ship too. We may get a bit too carried away and we may face big corrections, but the bottomline is: the fundamentals don't change. No matter how many ups and downs along the way, 21 million coin hardcoded limit will guarantee a perpetual long term increase in price. Demand is not going to magically stop, bubble bursts cycles part of the transition from fiat to bitcoin.

Seems so. Really can't beat the limit on max coins that can be mined. Looks like only something drastic like a nuke war would put a stop to this. By the time we ran out of new coins, those that have invested in this now would have already profited a lot.

Hell-raiser

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Quote from: cellard on October 31, 2017, 11:54:55 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2017/10/31/bitcoin-futures-are-finally-here/#6389fec26a0d

You can click on there and read the press release. I think this will pass, it's not the SEC that regulates this, it's a different process from ETF's. I think we are still not ready for an ETF, but Bitcoin futures could be good. Some worry about price manipulation as similarly seen by gold. I argue Bitcoin is a much different asset and you can't manipulate it as much as gold. The supply is clear, the market is global and nonstop. Gold's supply is unclear, nobody knows what's the limit of gold or how much is out there. The markets are not as global and they take breaks.

I'm not sure what you mean by gold price manipulation. I certainly know what paper gold means but let's be honest it is suicidal to short gold because there are too many gold bugs willing to sell their last shirt and buy a little more of gold as well as there are a few governments which are always ready to buy metal gold in massive amounts. I mean Russia and China, for example. I don't think the same can be said about Bitcoin, though.

Introduction of Bitcoin futures could potentially bring Bitcoin prices down dramatically once shorting is allowed. And there will be not enough support to stop panic selling.

amaral1977

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Quote from: cellard on October 31, 2017, 11:54:55 AM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2017/10/31/bitcoin-futures-are-finally-here/#6389fec26a0d

You can click on there and read the press release. I think this will pass, it's not the SEC that regulates this, it's a different process from ETF's. I think we are still not ready for an ETF, but Bitcoin futures could be good. Some worry about price manipulation as similarly seen by gold. I argue Bitcoin is a much different asset and you can't manipulate it as much as gold. The supply is clear, the market is global and nonstop. Gold's supply is unclear, nobody knows what's the limit of gold or how much is out there. The markets are not as global and they take breaks.

Good times for Bitcoin holders ahead, once again. I think we'll see the ETF around 2020 with an active lightning network, and the march towards 6 figures a Bitcoin will begin.

As far as manipulation do you think the centralization of mining is a real problem? or the fact that the coins are so dispersed after mining as we can see for the the amount of coins per wallet is the real fact dictating decentralization in BTC? Sometimes i ear that the centralization of mining can dictate the path that BTC is taking and i think if that can lead to some form of manipulation it the market itself?

cellard

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Quote from: Mometaskers on November 01, 2017, 12:40:52 PM

I hope so. The only manipulation so far I can see in bitcoins are those that we can see in stocks anyway with whales dumping here and such. Otherwise, it's pretty much dictated by the market.

Well this adds the risk of big bubbles forming, bigger than we've seen. With institutional money coming in, we will hit $10000 easily, this will make FOMOers jump on the ship too. We may get a bit too carried away and we may face big corrections, but the bottomline is: the fundamentals don't change. No matter how many ups and downs along the way, 21 million coin hardcoded limit will guarantee a perpetual long term increase in price. Demand is not going to magically stop, bubble bursts cycles part of the transition from fiat to bitcoin.

seizetehday5

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Quote from: Mometaskers on November 01, 2017, 12:40:52 PM

I hope so. The only manipulation so far I can see in bitcoins are those that we can see in stocks anyway with whales dumping here and such. Otherwise, it's pretty much dictated by the market.

Whales have much power yet in this industry and that is probably due to its infancy and amount of $$ going around. When more institutional money comes in this will only help curb stomp out that behaviour and the market

can react more naturally moving forward. I await the day when big companies drop loads of $$ into bitcoin because they cannot stop the inevitable Grin

Mometaskers

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I hope so. The only manipulation so far I can see in bitcoins are those that we can see in stocks anyway with whales dumping here and such. Otherwise, it's pretty much dictated by the market.

cellard

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/petertchir/2017/10/31/bitcoin-futures-are-finally-here/#6389fec26a0d

You can click on there and read the press release. I think this will pass, it's not the SEC that regulates this, it's a different process from ETF's. I think we are still not ready for an ETF, but Bitcoin futures could be good. Some worry about price manipulation as similarly seen by gold. I argue Bitcoin is a much different asset and you can't manipulate it as much as gold. The supply is clear, the market is global and nonstop. Gold's supply is unclear, nobody knows what's the limit of gold or how much is out there. The markets are not as global and they take breaks.

Good times for Bitcoin holders ahead, once again. I think we'll see the ETF around 2020 with an active lightning network, and the march towards 6 figures a Bitcoin will begin.

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