Intel Tapes Out Chips on 1.8nm and 2nm Production Nodes

swogerino

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Quote from: joniboini on March 15, 2023, 08:53:26 AM

Quote from: swogerino on March 13, 2023, 10:17:12 AM

There is if you are in for the long run,for me this coin is Raptoreum as they have an awesome development team behind them
-snip-
Once they build the assets which are next so different programming languages can be used to build apps over this network which by the way is ASIC resistant as they change algo I think we can see the price of Raptoreum greatly increase.

That's nice to know. Can you use Intel CPU to mine them profitably right now? Or is there another bottleneck that a faster CPU doesn't really matter for the hash rate/profit?

I think as I said it is profitable with any processor including a i5 3470 and up and if you are using your PC daily at work and if you are free to install an app or you get permission from the IT administrator go ahead and run the miner there.Now not a single CPU is profitable mining this coin despite the AMD Ryzen 9 and Epic server processors are really powerful ones that produces you the most number of such coins.Keep in mind to only venture it for the long term,for example if you have a powerful processor you can mine for 3 months to get like 7000-10.000 coins and then wait.The energy cost whatever you have is higher than the CPU power consumption so only try this for the longer term if you believe in the project.

FP91G

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A chip plant that South Korea's Samsung Electronics Co Ltd (005930.KS) is building in Taylor, Texas, will cost the world's biggest memory chipmaker over $25 billion, up more than $8 billion from initial forecasts, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Meanwhile, Intel Corp (INTC.O) announced a $20 billion chip factory in Ohio that it could expand to cost up to $100 billion. Also last year, chipmaker Micron Technology (MU.O) said it planned to invest up to $100 billion over the next 20-plus years to build a computer chip factory complex in upstate New York.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/samsungs-new-texas-chip-plant-cost-rises-above-25-billion-sources-2023-03-15/

JayDDee

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Quote from: joniboini on March 15, 2023, 08:53:26 AM

Quote from: adaseb on March 14, 2023, 12:42:52 AM

Then we had a big jump to the RX series which was 16nm if I recall and I assumed it would be at least another decade when we broke the 10nm barrier but I guess technology advances pretty quickly.

I think one of the reasons is that manufacturing companies define numbers differently. IIRC, Intel claims its 10nm process is comparable to TSMC's 7nm[2], its 7nm is comparable to TSMC's 3nm[3], and so on. Basically, nanometer numbers in a vacuum don't mean much, Intel/TSMC or others can simply change the name and voila, we break another nm barrier. CMIIW.

Branding doesn't change the lithography.
Back in the early Pentium days CPU models were named after their clock rate. AMD decided to name their CPUs based on which
Intel CPUs they thought they could compete with. Historicaly Intel has been more "Italian V12" and AMD has been more "Hemi"
Lithography, like CPU clock rate, or engine RPM, isn't the only factor in determining performance but it's a big one.

joniboini

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Quote from: swogerino on March 13, 2023, 10:17:12 AM

There is if you are in for the long run,for me this coin is Raptoreum as they have an awesome development team behind them
-snip-
Once they build the assets which are next so different programming languages can be used to build apps over this network which by the way is ASIC resistant as they change algo I think we can see the price of Raptoreum greatly increase.

That's nice to know. Can you use Intel CPU to mine them profitably right now? Or is there another bottleneck that a faster CPU doesn't really matter for the hash rate/profit?

Quote from: JayDDee on March 13, 2023, 01:26:48 PM

And when they do come out they won't be competing with today's CPUs, they'll competing with Zen6
so expectations need to be moderated in assessing their impact on mining.

Yeah, I heard TSMC will also start producing mass N2 chips in 2025, likely coinciding with when Zen 6 arrives[1]. It doesn't offer a lot of density increase compared to their 3nm process if I understood it correctly but still gives a 10-15% performance/watt boost. Not sure how it will translate to hash rate power though.

Quote from: adaseb on March 14, 2023, 12:42:52 AM

Then we had a big jump to the RX series which was 16nm if I recall and I assumed it would be at least another decade when we broke the 10nm barrier but I guess technology advances pretty quickly.

I think one of the reasons is that manufacturing companies define numbers differently. IIRC, Intel claims its 10nm process is comparable to TSMC's 7nm[2], its 7nm is comparable to TSMC's 3nm[3], and so on. Basically, nanometer numbers in a vacuum don't mean much, Intel/TSMC or others can simply change the name and voila, we break another nm barrier. CMIIW.

[1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Tech/Semiconductors/TSMC-says-it-will-make-ultra-advanced-2nm-chips-by-2025
[2] https://www.granitefirm.com/blog/us/2021/12/28/tsmc-process-roadmap/#:~:text=Intel's%207nm%20transistor%20is%20237.18,TSMC's%205%2F4nm%20of%20171.30
[3] https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/1375053390661705729

adaseb

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Yes it’s crazy how small these new chips will be. When I got into mining I had a Radeon 6990 GPU and it was I think 40nm technology and it was high tech back then. Then when we got the Radeon 7xxx series I think those were based on 28nm tech.

Then we had a big jump to the RX series which was 16nm if I recall and I assumed it would be at least another decade when we broke the 10nm barrier but I guess technology advances pretty quickly.

JayDDee

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Quote from: OgNasty on March 12, 2023, 01:44:06 PM

I didn't realize the chip fabrication process has gotten down to 1.8nm.

It isn't yet. This is 2 or 3 generations away, so around 5 years before see them if all goes well. Considering how long it
took Intel to get 10nm working, the schedule is a little optimisttic.

And when they do come out they won't be competing with today's CPUs, they'll competing with Zen6
so expectations need to be moderated in assessing their impact on mining.

swogerino

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Quote from: joniboini on March 11, 2023, 10:33:38 AM

Intel has been missing a lot of deadlines lately, don't they? IIRC, their latest server & supercomputer process is delayed, or changed from H12024 to H22024. I won't be surprised if we will see the first 2nm product in 2025 or later. Leakers that I follow on Twitter also share more or less the same sentiment, that their GPU & CPU products are likely going to arrive later than expected.

Even if they arrive soon, is there any profitable mineable coin other than Monero?

There is if you are in for the long run,for me this coin is Raptoreum as they have an awesome development team behind them,maybe a bit slow as they have said (do not bother us when we will implement everything we have set up on our road map,one sure thing is we will implement all of them) and so far they have been true to their promise.Once they build the assets which are next so different programming languages can be used to build apps over this network which by the way is ASIC resistant as they change algo I think we can see the price of Raptoreum greatly increase.

OgNasty

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I didn't realize the chip fabrication process has gotten down to 1.8nm. I think while this may not directly lead to better miners, it does show that companies like Bitmain that are making top tier ASIC products for Bitcoin mining still have a ways to go before their efficiency hits a wall. I guess this is a good thing as it means newcomers will continue to have ways to compete with established mining companies as more efficient miners should continue to be produced for several years to come giving new entrants an efficiency advantage over warehouses full of older hardware.

FP91G

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Quote from: joniboini on March 11, 2023, 10:33:38 AM

Even if they arrive soon, is there any profitable mineable coin other than Monero?

I think that in such a situation there are no profitable coins for mining on the market. For the processor, you also need to make special motherboards on which you can install several processors, otherwise for one processor there are a lot of additional costs for buying other PC components. And modern server hardware is very expensive, so I have not seen it in mining.

joniboini

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Intel has been missing a lot of deadlines lately, don't they? IIRC, their latest server & supercomputer process is delayed, or changed from H12024 to H22024. I won't be surprised if we will see the first 2nm product in 2025 or later. Leakers that I follow on Twitter also share more or less the same sentiment, that their GPU & CPU products are likely going to arrive later than expected.

Even if they arrive soon, is there any profitable mineable coin other than Monero?

FP91G

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Update 3/8/2023: Intel has pointed out a translation error with the report from UDN — the presentation shared with the press covered the previously-announced tape-out of internal test chips for the 18A and 20A process nodes, and test chips for a large potential foundry customer have taped out, and silicon is running in the lab. The development of the nodes is not final. We've amended the text below.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-completes-development-of-18a-20a-nodes
Intel has completed chip tape-outs of its Intel 18A (1.8nm-class) and Intel 20A (2nm-class) fabrication processes that will be used to make the company's products, as well as chips for clients of its Intel Foundry Services (IFS) division, reports .

Maybe mining on new processors will be profitable.

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