Topic: Intersango insolvent? (Read 12429 times)

Another update - it looks like Patrick Strateman and Donald Norman still have unfinished business:

https://www.law360.com/articles/874413/bitcoin-exchange-co-founder-s-derivative-suit-tossed

Amir Taaki has been fighting ISIS in Syria:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39417937

Did anyone ever get any kind of explanation as to what happened to the company and what happened to our money?

Cheers.

No one got their BTC out - but the main guy behind the whole thing (Patrick Strateman) got a new job: https://blockstream.com/2015/05/27/welcoming-new-members-of-team-blockstream.html

Just for the record. I also had funds in intersango which I have so far been unable to recover...

Indeed, after MtGox had suspended withdrawals and its price was falling fast, someone bragged on this forum that he had deposited 50'000 USD in there, to scoop up those cheap coins.

At least one serious crime appears to have been commited at MtGox: allowing clients to deposit even after it was known to be insolvent.  (If Sunlot or some other "rescuer"  succeeds in acquiring MtGox, and thus derailing the bankruptcy process, that and other eventual crimes will not be investigated and their authors will go unpunished.  No wonder the former management supports those takeover plans.)  Did Intersango do the same?

Hi, I'm new here and read your former posts.

Last time I checked Intersango, it still had an "active page". Meaning I could fill out a form for transferring my Bitcoins.
As my only other bitcoin address at that time was MountGox (because Bitcoin-24 was down too for a long time... I know I have a great hand at picking my trading platforms), so I decided to look into that after my holiday, which is now...

Now I can't fill out any form anymore.
By the looks of it, some of you did fill out forms, but are still left empty-handed. Am I correct?

How are people still depositing and use these  guys will ALLLLLLLLL the complaints they have ?
Hmm I suppose people still used MTgox for a long time.

Disgusting these scum bags are still active. I am actually vomiting all over my laptop as we speak.
Makes me sick... As per all of the vomit.

Intersango Ltd is still an active company with Amir Taaki listed as the only director.

Does anyone have any info about intersango (stealing money).... I mean they were going to give the money back!!!

Went to intersango.com now and it looks it's completely off.

great...the first link gives me an error about my browser not accepting cookies. Tried 3 browsers...

I would suggest that anyone who feels they are owed a significant sum by this company should follow the advice in this post:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6029790

and object to the dissolution, if it is not already too late to do so, because once it's dissolved there's going to be nothing whatsoever that you can do.

After you've done that, that would be the time to consider filling in their forms and tweeting about it.

I also filled the form out.  No joy.  Why do you think this was done?  A delaying tactic?  Or do you think that there is a desire to refund, but they are waiting for a good (cheap) time to do so?

Is it worth thinking about a twitter campaign?

I filled the form out 19/5/2014. Nothing so far.

Two weeks have passed since I filled that form. Nothing has happened.
I feel shame it crossed my mind that I could get my money back.

I filled out the form and got a 'positive' response. I got an email with a verification link, which I clicked and it went through to the Intersango website. However no bitcoins have turned up yet...

https://twitter.com/AmirTaaki

See tweet from 17th May too

Has anyone filled in the form and gotten anything back??

I'm a bit (pun intended) reluctant to "fill in my password, etc." just like that....

wow, so it seems maybe all is not lost yet :-] Anybody used that form at intersango.com already? I will do so now...

So I submitted it and it sent me an email with confirmation link, BUT

If you lookup whois, you will see it, but it's whois protected. I would think the people behind the original Bitcoin Consultancy would be able to provide more help:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Consultancy


However, they would only be able to provide more help, if they WANT to do so. Good luck with that.

The Intersango homepage has changed recently, seems to have some sort of withdrawal form.

OK, I am happy to put 2BTC towards funding a case against them.  Is anyone else prepared to put their money where their mouth is?

@bitcoinsolicitor, is this something you would be willing to take on and if so, what kind of amount do you need to get going?

What we know is that if creditors do not register objections with the London Gazette and Companies House then this company will be dissolved any day now, losing any real chance of ever legally getting anything out of them.

Allright so what do we know? Who is the owner of the domain for example?

What I would do personally:

If the amount is not worth bothering with:

 - forget it all and chalk it up to a good lesson - the writing was on the wall already from the onset, think extreme bragging about their own abilities and their actions (Bitcoinica scandal, inability to operate Intersango properly, setting themselves wideopen for fraud, false cocaine merchant transferring money to intersango bank account, shitty attitude towards customers etc). Only people who're not really good at something usually has the need for extreme bragging. And a vigilant customer could see what it was all about..

If the amount is worth bothering with:

1. find out exactly who's responsible and pay them a visit and force a payback. That could be illegal and lead to consequences for yourself down the line. Make a risk-reward analysis and see if its worth it.
2. Contact the authorities with all details in the case. Probably nothing at all will happen.
3. Send a bill to their business address. If unpaid, send it to a debt collectors agency. They're usually pretty agressive.


But unless you're owed a substantional amount, the effort used to attempt to collect it might be better used to make money in other ways, then pay better attention to signals in the future that gives indications that an operation is not honest.

I had roughly €1100 in intersango between euro and btc. I'm thinking everyone is in the same boat in that no one really knows what to do but surely the people responsible can't get away with this.
What are my options?
Has anyone had any success getting funds back or even making contact with intersango?
I would love to hear from other people trying to get their money back because I really don't know what to do.

Hi,

We would look at each persons case on an individual basis and provide an estimate of costs. We can act for one person or more.

There can be no guarantees in litigation. At this stage we do not know the background to your case / how much you lost what contract was agreed - what happened when etc... is there fraud involved....?

The company is limited and registered in England. There is a proposal to strike off the company. If you do want to act you should probably do so quite quickly.

In the first instance please email info(at)selachii.co.uk or call + 44 (0) 20 7792 5649.

A timely comment by bitcoinsolicitor, many thanks for the advice!  :-)

A couple of questions:

Firstly, to bitcoinsolicitor - is this a case you would consider taking if there is sufficient interest from the people involved?  If so, please could you furnish us with relevant details so that we can consider this as an option.  Your rates, chances of success and anything else you consider pertinent would be much appreciated.

Secondly, to everyone else - would we like to some representation from a solicitor who understands digital currency?  For myself, I would certainly be happy to throw a few more BTC at this...

Your thoughts, please.

Thanks.

There is a 'Proposal to Strike off' the company at Companies House.

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo

If you are owed funds or have a claim against the company you should consider to object the dissolution.

http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/gp4.shtml#ch1

As I have previously stated in this thread, I unfortunately also have substantial bitcoin stranded in intersango...
Previous correspondence has led no-where.
I am based in Denmark, but I would like to like to join any common legal action if it comes to that.

Has anyone in the UK contacted any ambulance-chaser lawyers about this to see if they are interested in assembling a class action?

Are there any solicitors in the UK yet that deal with cryptocurrencies?

The now offline Intersango have 64 BTC of mine and over 11,150.00 Euro.

I am giving Amir, Donald or Patrick a few more days to do the right thing but if anyone has any good links to share about Intersango please post them here. I am considering several options.

News about Intersango is being somewhat drowned-out by MtGox (where I also suffered losses) but I have brought Intersango to the attention of Richard Howlett at Selachii: http://www.selachii.co.uk/solicitors-blog/mt-gox-group-action-claim-losses-update/.

@Tumble23: I also had a few BTC in an account there.

At the time I left the BTC there, they were not worth much. Now things are different.
I would have expected they send me an email before they close down the company.

I'm not in england anymore and would very much like a resolution.

@Tumble23: Shoot me an e-mail if you're filing a claim, please: [email protected]. I can reply with gpg. I only have the equivalent of around £100 on Intersango but would be willing to contribute to a claim (formally: If we can exchange identities via email/gpg, I'm happy to 'donate' my account to you in return for the equivalent of what (hopefully) comes out of the claim in the end).

The twitter account AmirTaaki goes with this e-mail address: [email protected]
Maybe we should send him an e-mail first and let him know if we don't hear from him in the next 5 days or so this is going to court.

I think there is some obligation for us to act on this even for the ones who haven't got major sums on there.
A strategy on their side could be to repay everyone who complains and keep the rest of the bitcoins for themselves to exchange at some other market. That would be highly criminal and someone under this suspicion shouldn't be able to continue to make money from trusting customers (cf.  Amir Taaki's new project on Indiegogo: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/bitcoin-dark-wallet. Apparently they raised more than $50.000 and judging from the comments never delivered the corresponding 'perks').
He shouldn't be able to be a well-known face of BTC on BBC and elsewhere if he's purposely ripping people off.

Someone needs to take legal action or these guys could just 'strike off' Intersango and walk away with all the cash without having to face any repercussions.

Details on the company on here btw: companieshouse.gov.uk. Search '07683978'.

edit:
We should also object to the striking off of the company. Cf. ch. 1, pt. 11 on here: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/gp4.shtml#ch1

The most efficient solution would probably be to have some gorillas wrestle the truth out of him.

Neither, I am just sad that bitcoin in the UK is associated with such people. Best of luck to you.

can someone please email me.a link or a phone number. so i can put a complaint / a money claim in.. amir taaki, is a lier and a thief
and has taken £1300 from me.  i have proof and screen prints. i have proof of him taking it and saying to me im not having my money i have proof with screen prints of him doing and saying this..

and i also have emails from amir taaki , from 2 months ago, saying he was no longer the owner of intersango, and that patrick is the controller now... i have proof and have the emails that amir taaki has blammed someone else and has been lieing and being playing hes childish anarchy games.

hes a hacker and a thief and not a genuine business men or a genuine person. he talks alot of lies and fools people , hes a plan and simple thief and a lier and a bad hacker, he has many crazy and wild ideas. and talks alot of drugs. he needs to be stopped hes a bad person to represent bitcoin or a utopian world. hes the worse person for that. hes done nothing but lie and steal because hes made wrong choices in hes life hes taking it out on others. even hes family disprove of hes life style i think anyone would . if they knew how he was living and what he believes and what he does. hes not a nice guy

he has been hiding behind hes dark wallet project and hes email is correct he answers when he feel slike it. and then passes the blame and says hes friend patrick is the one in control of intersango and theres nothing he can do... hes a lier. as the internet and business records say hes the owner.



can someone please send me a link r a phone number where i file my claim for intersango , openly stealing my money and i have full proof.

this money was needed for an investment . and hes has lost me alot of money and i want all future loss of income compensated and paid back to me . plus the amount of coins he took from me from the time and value they were at that time when i tryed to withdraw them.

i got full proof amir.. and you know i do.. you should not of said your taking my money. then locked me out from my account.. but i managed to get all screen prints seconds before you done this

and youve done it to alot of peoeple


everyone make sure you get your money back from this lying little junkie

@cogniti:  The Hanover Street address is an off the shelf company address provided by an organisation that specialises in providing these things.

@grifferz:  Thanks for the information.  Do you have a claim or do you wish to get one started?

I think I am going to go ahead with a claim.  Does anybody else wish to proceed with a claim or does anybody else already have a UK based claim against them going?

The sole director of Intersango Ltd at this time is Amir Taaki. The company will be dissolved in about two months so anyone wanting to make a claim should really do so ASAP - it will be much harder to get money out of a company that doesn't exist any more, and liabilities of the company are not liabilities of Mr Taaki.

Maybe someone who lives in London could pay them a visit?

Intersango Ltd
3rd Floor 14 Hanover Street
London
England
W1S 1YH

Although I very much doubt they will be in person there.

I am from outside of UK so I can't do too much.

Their website is no longer available.  You would like to think that common courtesy would dictate some kind of customer statement about the removal of the service... but I have received no message from them.  By them, I mean these people:

http://web.archive.org/web/20131006123933/https://intersango.com/about-us.php

The ones who said "We have a long trusted history of honest, secure and safe operations within the exchange market."

The way I see it, we have the following options:

If there are enough people and enough interest, we can get together and see if we can get some kind of legal representation. 
We can individually go through the small claims process [https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview]
We can go to the police and report these incidences as cases of theft.

I am unsure of how to proceed and would really appreciate it if the individuals involved, and that would be:

Donald Norman [CEO - so, the buck should really stop with him.]
Amir Taaki
Patrick Strateman

would act on their obligations and duties to their customers.


Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks.

They owe me 1200euro! 

i put 16 btc in intersango aug 2012, i withdrew 12 btc to uk bank in the spring time 2013, bought 1 btc late summer, then the alarm bells started ringing i started trying to get all my btc out by verifying a bitstamp account and moving to them. i had delays verifying so in the meantime to get my coins the hell out of intersango i tried to put my 6 btc's into my friends bitcoin account (bitstamp). i waited weeks for this so raised a support ticket and was ignored so i raised another asking to speak to a human and simply got a reply "no" and the ticket shut down. i cancelled the transaction and requested another (the same) and nothing. now the wwwintersango.com site seems to of disappeared. hence why im vague about exact times and dates. do not know what to do? im a big btc fan but have been burnt. Other than a personal meeting with Amir Taaki i do not know what to do who to see or where to go to get MY money out. the normal banking system already scammed our money, btc is supposed to be the alternative to that but money grabbing arse holes will always exist it would seem.

Any help would be much appreciated??

To me it looks like the persons behind intersango ran with was left in the exchange.
All these weeks no news nor has the site came back up, i fear its the same as with mtgox they disappeared both the same way
I tried edit the bitcoin wiki, to put a warning and messages about all these disappeared exhanges ( sadly i can not )
Many have been shutdown in a very nasty way gladly i had taken my funds out of them because i became frustrated to see funds added taken 2 months to be processed
When i tried to get the btc out it took 4 weeks, that sort of things make the red flag rise in my experience.
If companies start delay or hardly do what they should and paying takes longer then it should you can bet something fishy is going on.

It looks like they have frozen any further orders on the site.  No orders are going through, I have two in a queued state.  I have a requested two withdrawals for 1 BTC and 1000 EUR.  No withdrawals are happening.

Checking at Companies House, there is a proposal to strike the company off.  No returns or accounts have been submitted during 2013.

Has anyone had any withdrawals processed recently?  Is anyone aware of any statement from them?

Thanks.

Still waiting (since November) to get my coins.
An no word from support tickets, etc.

That's common theft. Pure and simple.

If I ever see my coins again, I'll update. In the mean time I'll consider legal measures.

Yes, and at least they should release people's money. It's becoming frustrating with no contact from support and unclear communication on their website.

Is there a place where we could report them? Any consumer protection organization that could take care of it?

maybe they should just shut down 

It's hard to say what really is going on with intersango in their recent months. Their communication is vague.

Last time I deposited money I had to wait about 4 weeks for it to be deposited. Then I had to wait for bitcoin withdrawal about the same amount of time (It used to be a few minutes or hours).

They don't reply to support tickets anymore.  Their announcement "The system running the hotwallet has halted due to scheduled downtime of power facilities. All bitcoin transactions will be halted until such time as the system can be manually restarted. " doesn't explain much either.

Anybody knows what's going on with intersango?

it has been exactly a month since I deposited money into intersango and it is still not in my account! Anybody has the same problem?

Intersango announced:
"
Notice: Bitcoin Transactions Halted

The system running the hotwallet has halted due to scheduled downtime of power facilities.
All bitcoin transactions will be halted until such time as the system can be manually restarted.
"

It was a small amount (0.18 BTC).
I cancelled the request two times and eventually the third one has been processed. I don't understand how it works now.

Good news, Cogniti!

Unfortunately, my request was not one that was granted.  I have now cancelled it, sold some of the BTC and put in a request for a much smaller BTC withdrawal and an EUR withdrawal.

Cogniti, may I ask how much the BTC request was?  It would be really useful to know what kind of amount they are able to work with...  Ball park or indicative amounts would be great if you are shy!   

Thanks.

I have some good news!
After 2-3 weeks of waiting my bitcoin withdrawal has finally been processed/sent.
I've almost lost my hope especially because of the long waiting time and because my support inquiries haven't been responded either (they still haven't been responded but withdrawal has been processed so that's fine with me).

Yes I have. As above, my EUR SEPA withdrawal was processed.

I was waiting six week or more, they ignored all my tickets and communications, but when I logged in one day the status had moved to 'processed' and then I checked the bank and it was in there.

So it seems like they have not abandoned ship or anything, but nevertheless they are terrible. I wont deal with them again thats for sure.

Hi,

Well, they say 'hot wallet operating at extremely small amount', so I submitted several withdrawal requests of increasing amounts so that they could use these request to select an amount you could manage. Instead, they cancelled them all and changed the system so that only one request was possible at a time. I requested what I actually wanted [10 BTC] in December.  They have not honoured this request.

Has anyone managed to get any funds [EUR or BTC] since December?
 
Does anyone have any advice or an acceptable strategy on how best to proceed with withdrawing funds?

Thanks in advance.

Wasn't there a class-action against them?

Well perhaps there is hope then. I have a (significant) amount of bitcoin on Intersango which I have been trying to withdraw since late November.
Two support tickets.
Direct email to Strateman.
No response...

-
And to think - I used to recommend Intersango to other people...

Much to my surprise, my EUR withdrawal was processed 4 days ago and is in my account now.

Took them 6 weeks and they ignored my support ticket, but they did it eventually.

Hello,
I recently found out I had some bitcoins left in the site and requested a withdrawal a week ago that hasn't made it yet. Any news on the situation?

Thanks.

I brought bitcoin's via britcoin in 2011. They got transferred across to intersango, i have raised serveral tickets which keep getting deleted or saying not authorised after a while. To many my coins have been stolen as i have had no contact in the last month in trying to get my coins back.... Can anyone help?

weeks waiting for my EUR deposit

Waiting weeks on a EUR withdrawal, no response at all to support ticket.

Am I better off waiting on, or trading for BTC and trying to get the BTC back out?

I have been an Intersango customer for several years.

Intersango may be slow to respond (it's one guy, involved in many projects and is also a bitcoin dev), but I have never seen any evidence of them being insolvent or doing anything nefarious.

Hi, I'm new here, but this topic is of interest to me.

I have sent InterSango SEPA funds that arrived on the 14th Sept, 27th Oct and Nov 21st.

I have withdrawn BTC on the 7th Nov, 21st Nov and 30th Nov.

The service was slow, with one SEPA deposit taking 9 days.  Their website says that SEPA transfers are weekly, so a delay of up to 10 days is feasible, I guess...  So far, I have had no concerns other than timeliness.

Are there still outstanding cases of missing funds?  Icicle, are you still waiting?

You did a successful withdrawal today?? WOW.

I think your theory has merit, although I'm wondering who on earth is sending in funds. It is well known I'm wanting 51 bitcoins and change, and I'm still locked out so maybe its my funds you are all getting sent? I put in a support ticket almost three weeks ago. Got asked for ID, sent it the exact same day, heard nothing. He closed a duplicate ticket though on the 27th, so I know he knows all about it and how urgent it is.

Now you can't even put in a support ticket. Its just a 504 error.

Time to start rattling a few cages, methinks


[Edited to add] It just occurred to me, Cjp, that if you are right, a Bitcoinica type 'hack' at Intersango should be on the cards.

[Edited again to add] And it also explains why users have had to sneak their balance out one bitcoin at a time :/

It would appear he is insolvent. Why else would you kill someone's dog? And in public???

[Edited yet again to add] And also, if what you think is correct, another comfirmation besides a hack would be his lawyer dumping him. She knows a customer from Intersango is missing $10k of bitcoins (more like $15k now) because I copy her in. At least, the lawyers I know would dump a client under those circumstances.

I did a successful BIC withdrawal from Intersango.
Amount: between 1 and 2 BTC
Withdrawal requested: 4 nov 2013
Withdrawal received: 7 nov 2013

Their support page says they can't give any ETA(*) for withdrawals. How can that possibly be? Even if they manually process all withdrawals, they can still look at the size of the request queue, right?

I have a different theory: I think they're funding withdrawals with the bitcoins from incoming funds. Since they can't know when (or if) incoming funds arrive, they can't estimate when (or if) they'll be able to process withdrawals. Makes sense, right?

It would mean that Intersango is effectively doing a sort of fractional reserve banking(**), without the users' knowledge or consent, and probably without a license as well. I wonder where the funds have gone...

This also means that the last people to leave the place won't get their funds back; they'd better contact each other and collect as much data as possible right now, so they might collectively sue Intersango if it turns out that I'm right.

Anyway, I feel lucky to get my funds out of that place.

(*) Estimated Time of Arrival
(**) Or you could call it a Ponzi scheme. Interestingly, there seems to be a similarity between the two.

Oh I've been reading, believe me. Strateman won't let me get $10k of bitcons back out. Its very sad actually as I need the money for an operation for my daughter's dog.

He knows all about it and still won't hand the bitcoins over so I got to wondering if he had actually spent my $10k on his defense in San Francisco.

I mean, I'm an English woman living in the US who left a small amount with him long ago and never traded it. It grew into $10k and he might have thought I'd forgotten about it or that nothing would happen to him if he took it.

I'm interested to note that as recently as early October, Intersango was still functioning.

Or maybe he is selective in his thieving? On the face of it I would have looked like a good target - foreign, miles away (he thinks). Either way, he is a week over the deadline my husband gave him so I guess it is time to report a crime.

Read up on the "people" pushing the "service" you're using before you hand over BTC. Continuing to divert funds to the incompetent is a bad move.

2013/10/01 both paid in and received BTC. Can not get fiat in though and do not know viability of exchange. Will have to wait and see what happens before dealing with them again. reg.
ps: no response to ticket asking what "delayed" means under BTC withdrawal in fee's section?

Just found a credit report that shows a CCJ (county court judgement) in the UK. I also see the accounts were not audited, something I should have thought was important if they were taking deposits.

And, Amir Taaki is listed as a shareholder. That can't be correct can it? He just told me he wasn't.

And the accounts were late being filed.

Something's wrong here. If it wasn't for the fact Intersango are ignoring my requests to transfer my bitcoins out of there, I would assume it was my data.

Yeah, though they didn't tell me. I'm thinking mine were the last bitcoins left and they thought I wouldn't be wanting them.

I thought they died a long time ago? 

When was the last time anyone successfully withdrew any amount from Intersango? I am having terrible trouble getting my bitcoins out of there.