Topic: Introducing Clinch - a PvP bitcoin lightning wagering platform! (Read 710 times)

Actually a lot of projects now next to Bitcoin are centralized. Though indeed that the introduction of smart contracts, allows us to get introduced to De-Fi which is short for Decentralized-Finance. So there are still some decentralized projects on them.

I don't think it's about respect but it is just that like you said, they are only afraid that they will get into some serious troubles if they continue and that can also make them to not open up their business. So a small earnings are still better after all. But is it true what I said that they will only earn small? I think not because a lot of people are still into gambling right now, so the same individual can still keeps on coming back in the casino.

We can't escape from government's regulation especially if the casino is getting their license from legit authorities. Since crypto market is going mainstream, and so it needs to address the fact that it should follow the government protocols pertaining to this type of business.
But if the casino will keep their site to be truly decentralised, then, they will find a way how to preserve the anonymity factor of their users. Because if they can't respect such feature, then, definitely, they should not call their services as truly decentralised in nature.

?

Ser, get the context. I said a centralized service that respects the laws of some regions BECAUSE it wants to he a long term service for cryptocurrency users. It can't do that if the government of some nation-state could seize their domain.


Plus it's not entirely about "respect". It's about the necessary things a centralized cryptocurrency company must do to continue their service.

Such developers that build their casino on top of the bitcoin blockchain or directly on top the lighting networks, or perhaps, on top another blockchain network that is not bitcoin simply build a decentralized gambling system, and you can't say that that is a disrespect to regions where casinos and gambling are banned, because Decentralization is in the first place was never meant to respect laws, decentralization is all about freedom, freedom to be in absolute control of your own finances and decisions as it patterns to gambling and other services.

But on the other hand as well, I agree with you that a centralized casino that restricted regions where gambling is not allowed from accessing their casino, indeed shows respect, it will be disrespectful if they do otherwise, but that also will potentially land them in serious legal trouble if the government of that region takes the issue up.

It's sad, but from my personal belief, a centralized crypto casino/service that follows and respects where they can allow users and where they can't allow them is a sign that they're serious in becoming a long term service for cryptocurrency users.

Although, other serious developers could also follow a different path that they will not respect the rules of each region and build their service directly on top of the Bitcoin blockchain, or probably directly on top of the Lightning Network?

But unfortunately OP highly discourage to use VPN so that means there's zero chance to make it as alternative and we will just got an issue if we disobey what they said here.

Maybe seek for VPN friendly casino or join in this discussion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5487535.320 since provably you can get some good information about usage of VPN and on where you can gamble without getting any potential issue by using this tool.

So sorry you can not be able to gamble as your country prohibit such. Possibly, they have looked at many factors to have been considered before reaching such resolution to put restriction on gambling sites from allowing your citizens accessing it. However, I will advise you not use VPN as it is that your country does not allow gambling. If you want to use VPN, you will have to search for casino that are KYC free to use so that you do not have any issues if you want to gamble maybe that would help you avoid unnecessary issues.

It's very sad that my country always prohibits gambling. If only VPN could be an alternative for having fun, maybe I would continue to play from one platform to another.

The website is currently OK, https://www.thndr.gg/

I'm going to download some of their games in iPad OS - it's safer because it's a walled garden, and play them during my lunch break at work. The games are original and actually built by OP's team, not like those games from providers like Evolution or Hacksaw Gaming. Although, I would like to see a Craps game like that of Evolution's First Person Craps.

I can still not access the website from my end which means they are yet to revisit their restricted list and have made a review of it  enabling some Geos to be able to access their website. Come to talk of it, their representative is not that active here which does not send a good signal to members here who would be interested  in their services. I believe this is the reason why the thread is not that active since it happens that members here might have their Geos on the restricted list and the representative is not active.

I'm receiving an "Error 406". That's when the host/server indicates that it can't provide a response that matches the client's request.

The server is running, but the admins probably need to fix/change some server configurations to let it run normally.

How long has it been since the start of that 406 Error? OP and the other developers have probably been informed of the situation. Their Thundr link also has the same error.

You are correct as Nigeria has no restrictions on gambling but I  think the government issues licence to casino operators in the country and I have seen most casinos in
Nigeria coming  online to talk about their operational license issued to them by the government if I am not mistaken. However, the possibility of Nigeria having gambling law is possible as they issue out licence to operators and before such could be able to take place, there must have been some policies for which Operators must fulfill before getting the license to operate.

It is obvious the list of restricted nations presented by the casino as it is abundantly clear they did not fully do their research because if they had done that, I believe some countries on that list would have been missing out in attendance of the list presented.

You have said the exact thing on my mind, Nigeria; as I believe many of us will know currently have no gambling laws, and as such, international online casinos can freely operate and offer their services to Nigerians without the need to acquire any license of permission to operate in the country.

Like you said, the management of this casino surely have to go back to their drawing board and do their home work very well, they need to find out the countries of the world where gambling laws is not yet in existence, such countries could become their goldmine if they will offer services good enough for citizens of such countries to adopt.

But on the other hand though, I am assuming this casino is not fully launched yet, lets see what happens in the coming weeks.

If all these huge numbers of countries are excluded from your casino, what is left to deal with in this competitive industry? By the way, what is Nigeria doing here? I am curious because this is the second time I have seen the country restricted by casinos this week. I will definitely not agree with the local regulation reasons because, by all my researches, the country is still one of the weakest in regulation and is also casino friendly.

Hahaha...let's face it, VPN should never been encouraged even if you endorse it here. We've seen casino's support staff claiming they allow it but later put the gambler in trouble.

I am having similar issues too. I think it is not the website being down but rather restriction being placed on the geos but what is making me got curios is if they really did their research very well  because the list is too much for such restriction though that they could be missing out from some country that do not have any law against gambling and you know that is worth millions they could be missing out from every day from the gambling industry of a country on their restriction list.

They should check properly and work on their restriction list so they could be at advantage otherwise, they would be missing out of possible benefits that could get them more profits on the long run.

I am coming around this thread for the very first time today, and I must say that I am happy to learn about this new game platform call clinch, welcome to the forum guys, I hope you will find this forum a wonderful place to promote this game for as long as possible..

And so the op knows, I don't know if this is a general thing or it's something peculiar to myself alone, but I think the site is down, I just tried checking the website out but what I got was that the site is not reachable, is this also the same for you guys as well?
If yes, perhaps, maybe the op is working on it presently..

But if you ask me, it probably won't if you bet all of your weekly signature campaign payments in one mere game of Solitaire. Personally, it will be the most serious game of Solitaire for that week if I did that.

Although, you might be right. There are other games that could be more enticing for users. PVP Tetris perhaps? But Solitaire might merely be the start for Clinch. I'm confident that other games will be available sooner or later.

You could see it on my previous quote were I made a bold caption of my country on your post.  I too was curious as to how my country made it to your restricted list or maybe you were not sure of your findings or what? However, it is not too late as it still lies within your capacity to effect changes immediately because it would not be making any sense you intentionally depriving yourself of my country multimillion dollars gambling industry.

Please DM me with your geo.  I will investigate how it made our list.

Welcome to the forum and good luck with this project.
Solitaire is a little bit boring game, if you ask me. I used to play it for a while on my Windows XP PC 15 years ago and I don't remember enjoying the game for a long time. Do you really think that many gamblers would be interested in playing Solitaire and betting money on the game?
The fairness in a skill-based game cannot be guaranteed, because the PvP system can match a skilled player with a total newbie, so the noob won't stand a change against an experienced player. That's why most PvP gambling games must be luck-based(maybe poker is the only exception, but sometimes poker noobs can have bigger luck than skilled players).
Is there a way for the PvP system to match players that are at an equal level, in terms of skills?

If you are talking of local regulations against casino or game then I think you are getting it wrong or may be you did not really get to do your own research because I can access other gambling and casino website with ease here in my country.

As a matter of fact, there are casino offices in my country and people go there live to bet and play games as it pleases them. No laws against gambling in my country so I wonder where or who told you that my country has regulations against casinos. Well it is up to you to do your own research as you are missing out of my country gambling industry.

I believe that for those regions that have a definite ban on gambling, avoid. Plus the countries that are under U.S. sanctions like North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and a few other countries.

BUT some smaller services under the radar could accept users from most regions, no?


  👍

That's the main concept of building on top of the blockchain, but Bitcoin has very low throughput. Lightning will fix this.


That's the advantage of a system built on top and operating directly on top of a decentralized network. You probably should open source your UI and let other developers build their own to connect into your service.


 👍

Well, welcome to the forum. I hope the gambling service offered here on this platform will be good. I looked at its platform, and it looks okay, although I don't like the games you mentioned,
like Solitaire. Because most of the games I only play are slot games and Baccarat from time to time.

Sometimes I also play dice games but never solitaire, and I don't even know if there is also solitaire in the casino I play at, or maybe I just don't notice it.

Want to follow up on a few points:


- Geo restrictions.  The geo restrictions are there due to local regulation.  As you can guess, we are are avoiding legal troubles from local authorities.  I'm fairly confident that most legit companies would attempt to abide by existing laws. 

- Yes, you are paid after every win.  Your winnings will land in your bitcoin lightning wallet when the match is completed and a winner is found.  No minimums for withdrawals, and none of that other nonsense.  

- No deposits.  Every wager is a payment from your bitcoin lightning wallet.  We do not require any minimum deposit or any of that nonsense.  

- No KYC.  Pretty straightforward.  Most Lightning Address enabled wallets are compatible with the platform.  That is all that is required.

- No bots.  As mentioned earlier, we hash all moves by all players and verify that what they submitted to the server are legitimate moves and scores.  

- Yes, Clinch is skill-based.  In a head-to-head match-up, both players received the same 'seed'.  That means the cards are laid out in the exact same order for both players.  Some decks are unsolvable and some are easily solvable.  Either way, the best players will be most efficient with their moves in order to score the most points.


Lastly, try Clinch.  There is a chat board inside the app where you can ask questions to real players if you have your doubts.  No need to even place your first wager if you dont want to.  

If you really want to test it, then make a wager at the lowest tier and see how it works.  We welcome you!

I hope the situation will get even better with time and all the people that are interested will be able to use the product that was presented.
And, as it was said - it's great that the project utilizes the Lightning Network.

But to BOT a simple game like solitaire, which doesn't depend on player-psychology, could merely be played efficiently in one way. Your path to winning or losing would depend on the cards and if it's shuffled in your favor. If you're playing with a bot, then all you will need to do is play according to the next card. But for online card games, the "shuffle" will depend on the RNG.

OP, welcome to BitcoinTalk, and kudos to you and your service for building something that utilizes the Lightning Network!

  👍

Now, that's a good sign I believe and when more countries and territories are added then players from those places can also enjoy the platform and have some fun with it. If there are APP Store policies that pose those restrictions then why not to allow more people on website directly and limit them on App Store version only if possible.

Good to see a platform that integrate lightening network into it payment system, this Indeed a good sign that users will have to spend less fees and faster transactions on this casino because at some point so for sure we need to play along with what we have as an improvement, and I hope other prominent casinos will also make implementation of lightening network too in the near future so as to improve the level of their payment system.


So I welcome you guys to the forum and do well to also make a proper ANN thread as your first page still lack adequate graphics that could serve as a pipping window into what to expect from your site.

Wow  
That is a huge number of countries with restrictions to access Clinch!
I am having trouble starting it, and I thought bitcoin services should be available for everyone and not restrict players based on their location so much.
Is there any KYC verification for using this game?

Thank you!  Yes, we will take this into consideration. 

Just checked your site out and I am mighty impressed with several areas such as the stylish UI, comprehensive FAQ answering many important queries and the lightning network inclusion.

Your team does need to work on the ANN though since it's very, very barebones and first impressions are usually read through it within this forum. All the best team.

'desisdead' is, in fact, part of the team.  Des uses this handle everywhere.  Neither of us are Anon.  As mentioned in above responses, its not too hard to find us if you Google our names + THNDR Games.  We pop up in a lot of places. 

Sorry but how did you conclude this while it’s a newbie account with just one post?
You must be confusing user desisdead with the OP (adamTHNDR) The former is most likely a team member too but we should wait for a confirmation from the OP.
It would be better if they use a single account to respond here to avoid confusion like what happened here.

It seems that he is quite active and part of the team that knows and reports feedback to the whole team, it is a good thing for the improvement of a game service, he can respond directly to what consumers want because he has a close relationship with the development team.
Marketing on forums, yes it is the best choice to increase audience or exposure so that people who like the service that is the product will get more consumers, not a few successful projects from marketing that are very potential.

Exactly.  Thank you for sharing this info.  Lightning Addresses is how we manage the instant winning payouts.  No messing with invoices

No, unfotunately, you won’t be able to make/receive payments with Electrum.
After signing up, you'll be prompted to choose one of these lightning wallets: Blink, Pouch, Speed Wallet, Strike, Wallet of Satoshi, ZBD.

This makes sense since the above wallets create lightning addresses (unlike electrum) which is needed to automate payments. By using lightning addresses you won’t need to manually provide a new invoice each time you win a game and want to withdraw.

Are you also a part of the team running this project, because from your statement, it seems so and for sure we may directly channel some few questions to you since you are active here in the thread, nice to know also from previous comment that you guys are in for a long term deal and at that we can only expect the best if and when the team keep working together to get something new and classic to their customers.

Also as suggested there is a need for you guys to also pay close attention to the issue of promotions because it is through promotion that you can easily reach your expected audience.

There are regional restrictions largely due to distributing via the App Store. But regulation around skill-based wagering is constantly changing, so we are updating the game regularly to include new countries and territories where it's allowed.

That's a long list of countries that are restricted from using the platform I'm glad that my country is not part of it so I can check the platform, This is the first solitaire platform that I have encountered, Solitaire is very popular among card players so I'm sure with the marketing and good referral rewards you have a chance for your platform to be popular


I didn't see on your terms and FAQ users prohibiting from using VPN, or maybe I missed it but can you clarify if this is allowed or not?

If you're big bosses is interested in getting the most of promotion here on Bitcointalk, they should consider you upgrading your account it will cost you a few dollars the benefits outweigh the cost

Will it work with electrum which is not a typical lightning wallet but has the feature available?

One more thing that might help, you should not type consecutively to reply to multiple inquiries. You can add them into one text, quoting each reply separately before making your reply.

- Jay -

No KYC!  Yea, that is also one of our value propositions as well.  You just need a Lightning address enabled bitcoin wallet and you can start playing. 

At the moment, only bitcoin lightning.  But you can use a variety of bitcoin lightning wallets that have Lightning Address functionality. 

They already answered your first question and you can find the answer in this reply, here.
They have a long list of restricted countries and based on the error message from the screenshot you posted (ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED), it seems your country is restricted too.

OP, I asked on the other thread if there is a trustless way to verify we are playing against real players but didn’t get a satisfying answer.

Hi Adam, Welcome to bitcointalk forum.

Wanted to get a thorough insight of your platform to see the interphase myself but unfortunately I couldn't and I was wondering are there locations/countries that are restricted from accessing the platform and,

You didn't say anything about KYC you only talked about bonuses which seem cool, but can you please enlighten us if your platform requires KYC for members or you're KYC free before and after reg...

Graphics help a thread, but is not so imperative for a new project to make an announcement thread. You can get a copper member tag, but do not expect that to attract more users.

Is lightning network they only channel to receive withdrawals, can I receive payments to wallets which do not support bitcoin lightning wallets.

- Jay -

Launching a campaign could help get them some traffic, but it's not a guarantee at all. It really kinda aggitates me when people who have no clue make assumptions such as launch a campaign and you'll be the best. That's not how it works.

Could a campaign help? Yes of course, but along with launching a campaign there has to be other promotions being offered to help get users to the site. There has to be reasons for people to want to even open the site besides well they have a signature campaign.

@OP if you have a budget and are open to other promos, feel free to contact me to help you out. Don't fall for the trap from some that I am sure have sent you a pm already. People will lie to get a gig so don't instantly believe everyone who might be sending a pm.

This is what most gamblers wanted for and you have brought it to their notice so expect more people to visit the site. And I will also advise you to quickly pick a good manager in the forum to launch a long lasting campaign so that you casino with be one of the best casino in the forum. You need campaign in this casino for more awareness. You can contact any manager right way.
I am saying this because the casino heist s too good to delay. I wish you all the best.

Welcome to the forum, that's a really awesome feature which a platform offers but I saw that the platform you're promoting here isn't available in many regions and if that's the case then what if users go with a VPN to avoid regional restrictions. It's good to know that you guys somehow allow VPN connections but is there any safeguard that the ones who use VPN may not have any problems in future?

I would also suggest you to first purchase Cooper membership and update the announcement thread with some images. And, once the announcement thread is fully updated then it's far better to do some marketing here to get more exposure. I suggest you to talk with Icopress, he's an awesome manager who can help you a lot in marketing. Best of Luck.

Thank you!

We believe instant payouts is one of our key value propositions. 

You are welcome to the Bitcoin forum and feel free to navigate around the forum. From my visitation to the website I liked what I saw. and if things are done like this then there will be no problem between gamblers and casinos again. Can this be done by other casinos too? Let your gambling win directly withdraw to your connected wallet and the capital would be in the casino?

Yeah, we suspect other platforms may use bots to fake competition.  Or course, we cannot prove this.  

As mentioned above, we actually hash each move the user makes, so we compare hashes server side to confirm the moves the users client says they made create a valid hash.

I urge you to reach out to us, ask around about THNDR Games.  I believe we are somewhat known in the bitcoin community.  Please check out website and socials.  We've been around awhile, mostly making Free-to-play games.  We've just recently ventured into real-money (bitcoin) gaming when we knew we built a good Solitaire game

I will be more clear ....  Use a VPN. 

RE: Do I work for THNDR?  Well, I am the only Adam working at THNDR games.  I'm sure you can verify that with a Google search if you wish.  Write me an email, I will respond  

Up at the top of this thread, you can find the list of regions that are restricted b/c of local laws. 

Very well said alot of times most of the in house games providers are constantly manipulating the system to favor the house and this made even bot usage by some casino to have advantage over the player so for that it very well OK to make extra effort to verify the games and at some point it very interesting to know that majority of them are vastly unfair to the players.

Anyways welcome to this forum and we look forward to seeing more of you here, also to adopt some of the recommendations.

I guess this is the same thing: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5509590


Another similar thread and the OP can't say much like the first OP.

Looks like you are not an official representative of this casino, and you can't say that users can use VPN. "Just sayin' doesn't mean much if I need to risk my money and get banned if I win.

The list of banned countries is very long, if you banned most countries who will play on your site? Just sayin'...

Do you have restrictions for certain regions? Trying to access the website returns a "problem loading page" error and I tried across different browsers with the same result.

Nope, we do not check or care if you use VPN.  You might see that note when you land the home page.  If you do, it means that you've VPN'ed into a restricted area or your IP is associated with a restricted area.  Of course, if you are using a VPN, you can probably change your location.  But again, just sayin'

In the future we are adding a way so be able to replay your opponents moves, so you can check they got a valid score or learn what they did differently.

At the moment, we actually hash each move the user makes, so we compare hashes server side to confirm the moves the users client says they made create a valid hash

Two things that impressed me with your platform were the way you pick the domain extension,.gg, .gg means good game and is very related to online games, and the write-up  from three reputable online publishing sites we seldom see platforms like Coindesk, Bitcoinmagazine and GamblingInsider write article praising a gambling platform.

You have a good platform worthy of promotion so follow all the recommendations here and you are good to go and you will have a lot of support.

so just to be clear, your platform allow the usage of a VPN? because if your platform does not allow the use of VPN and if a player is found out to be using a VPN and their account will be banned, I think it'll be better to say it now just to prevent hassle in the future instead of saying "VPN users may have a different experience".

Along with the copper membership, you should also try to run some promotions here in the forum. This will help you grab potential gamblers from the forum. Additionally, if a casino runs any sort of promotion, then it proves that they are legit and trying all the possible ways to represent them in a professional manner among the members here. This also helps to build trust about the casino among the members. I checked the site, and it prompted me to download the iOS app. I thought to check the reviews at the App Store, but till now it has 0 reviews. I hope you get more successful with your casino OP. I will leave a detailed review soon after checking the game/site.

Despite my interest on playing PvP games I’m always hesitant to try this type of game online because there’s no way to verify if you are playing against player, bot or player using tools to play against you.

But I like the idea of PVP solitaire because this is one way to apply gambling on this card game. I just don’t know how can you guarantee fairness on each game that every player is playing against 100% real player on the other hand with fair games.

Btw nice website you’ve got. Aside from my trust issue your casino might be a hit in the future.

Here are the geos where Clinch is not available due to local regulation:

Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Aruba, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus, Belize, Benin, Bolivia, Bolivia, Botswana, Burundi, Cambodia, Cayman Islands, Central African Republic, Chad, China, Comoros, Congo, Costa Rica, Cuba, Cyprus, North Korea, Congo - Kinshasa, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Equatorial Guinea, Falkland Islands, Faroe Islands, Fiji, French Polynesia, Ghana, Gibraltar, Greenland, Guam, Guatemala, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Honduras, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Kiribati, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Liechtenstein, Macao, Madagascar, Maldives, Mali, Marshall Islands, Martinique, Mauritania, Mauritius, Monaco, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Niue, Norfolk Island, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Palestine, Panama, Pitcaim, Russia, Samoa, San Marino, Sao Tome and Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Tanzania, Timor-Leste, Togo, Trinidad and Tobago, Turkmenistan Tuvalu, Uganda Ukraine, Virgin Islands, Vanuatu, Holy See Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zimbabwe, Belgium, Bulgaria, Côte d’Ivoire, Croatia, Czechia, Egypt, Estonia, France, French Guiana, French Southern Territories, Greece, Hungary, Indonesia, India, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Malaysia, Malta, Montenegro, Nigeria, North Macedonia, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Türkiye, India

In the United States, these states are also restricted:
Arkansas, Louisiana, Connecticut, South Dakota ,Delaware, Indiana, Maine


That said, VPN users may have a different experience.... To be clear, I am not suggesting to use a VPN, just saying that VPN users may have a different experience.  Just sayin'

Let me see if I can get approval from the big bosses at THNDR for the copper membership

Welcome to the bitcointalk community. It is really good to see that new casino are entering in bitcointalk forum. By the way why don't you buy a copper membership to make your ANN thread more gorgeous I mean you will be able to show the Image by purchasing the Coppermembership here.

Anyway I have an issue with your site when I click for play now it takes me to this page, I haven't use any VPN , Do you have regional restrictions?



https://play.clinch.gg/unavailable

Hi Everybody

My name is Adam.  New to bitcointalk.org.  I work for THNDR Games and I am writing today to introduce our new product called Clinch!  

What is Clinch?

Clinch is a skill-based Solitaire game where two players compete against each other, trying to score the most points using the same deck of cards.  Each player places a wager (+ fee) over bitcoin lightning, with the winner taking the pot!


What makes Clinch different than other real-money Solitaire platforms?

Clinch requires no deposits and no withdrawal minimums.  Clinch uses bitcoin lightning as the native currency for wagering, which is the most globally accessible protocol to people around the world.  Each bet is paid directly from the user's off-platform bitcoin lightning wallet and all winnings are paid immediately to the user's off-platform bitcoin lightning wallet.  Besides that, Clinch verifies all rounds for fair play (unlike other platforms) and players always play against real players - no bots guaranteed!  

Are there other ways to earn bitcoin with Clinch?

Our referral program offers an incredible opportunity:  earn 10% (and more!) of the fees paid from every game played by the people you referred.  Unlimited referrals, unlimited payouts!  Unlike competitors, we pay you instantly for every match your referred friend plays.


Use our referral code, CLINCHED, which gifts you a 50% discount on fees! No deposits, no withdrawal limits, just instant payouts! Try Clinch now!


I would be happy to answer any questions or hear any feedback you have about Clinch!  Thank you for reading.