Investing your bitcoins with no risk to ever deteriorating exchange rate?

Wendigo

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Quote from: BTCevo on April 18, 2015, 10:51:36 AM

Quote from: cryptasm on April 18, 2015, 07:26:47 AM

I rlly dont know why everyone is hating about this idea...I think its great that you can Invest and not be affected by the volatility.

Why? It's just because people is scared to lose anything that they gained and I dont think they will hold something that their value is not stable and it is really affected to someone who hold so many btc. Let's say that you hold 1000 btc and suddenly the price down a lot did u want to save that again?
Thats why I think bitcoin can't be invested for a long term

I think the OP meant in the first post that your investment will be tied to the current USD value using a 3rd party bitcoin exchange to offset the falling price of bitcoin If I understood this right Cool

If you turn the bitcoins to cash and hold it under the mattress you won't get any more and the bank interest rate isn't a lot either.

BTCevo

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Quote from: cryptasm on April 18, 2015, 07:26:47 AM

I rlly dont know why everyone is hating about this idea...I think its great that you can Invest and not be affected by the volatility.

Why? It's just because people is scared to lose anything that they gained and I dont think they will hold something that their value is not stable and it is really affected to someone who hold so many btc. Let's say that you hold 1000 btc and suddenly the price down a lot did u want to save that again?
Thats why I think bitcoin can't be invested for a long term

ShetKid

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Quote from: cryptasm on April 18, 2015, 07:26:47 AM

I rlly dont know why everyone is hating about this idea...I think its great that you can Invest and not be affected by the volatility.

It will certainly create a lot of confusion, and it would be bad for bitcoin, as they will be sold to have the amount in cash. People should probably be given the option if they want to switch to this option.

cryptasm

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Quote from: marcotheminer on April 17, 2015, 04:25:28 PM

Quote from: ndnh on April 16, 2015, 03:20:30 AM

Bitcoin is probably already in the lows. If it rises to $1000000 all the investors will lose out, right?

Keep dreaming :|

you never know=P ppl also didnt have believes in it when it was 1$ each=P

cryptasm

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I rlly dont know why everyone is hating about this idea...I think its great that you can Invest and not be affected by the volatility.

marcotheminer

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Quote from: ndnh on April 16, 2015, 03:20:30 AM

Bitcoin is probably already in the lows. If it rises to $1000000 all the investors will lose out, right?

Keep dreaming :|

Grand_Voyageur

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Quote from: vennali on April 16, 2015, 02:03:44 PM

Quote from: Grand_Voyageur on April 16, 2015, 12:04:12 PM

Quote from: Chemistry1988 on April 16, 2015, 11:25:08 AM

Quote from: lucasjkr on April 16, 2015, 11:00:02 AM

So, someone sends coins, you sell them and hold cash on their behalf? Can't people do that themselves?

If I understand OP correctly, he is not going to sell your bitcoin investment but create a short position on Bitfinex to hedge the market risk for you. You will still be investing in the bankroll and earn a profit if the house wins.

People could hedge market risk on Bitfinex by themselves....thus covering their positions, even on BTC not invested in BitDice - e.g. BTC investments on BitBond lending platform.

But then they won't really be invested in the bankroll. The option is basically allowing them to invest Fiat in a way and see the have the advantage of being invested. I am sure a lot of people stay out of bitcoin, because of the volatility, so it would definitely be good for those people. But it won't really be good for bitcoin as essentially you guys will be dumping the coins in the market.

Is a sensible financial choice for a dice site to assume on itself the users' currency risk? If you look at air carriers fuel hedging case not everyone win: Delta Posts Loss After Fuel Hedging. Also...a dice site doing what OP said would also risks having a lot of blaming users in the event of withdrawals at higher prices because they would receive less BTC than invested. Hedging is not a thing for mean users.
IMO, i would stay away from it if i would own a dice site.

vennali

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Quote from: Grand_Voyageur on April 16, 2015, 12:04:12 PM

Quote from: Chemistry1988 on April 16, 2015, 11:25:08 AM

Quote from: lucasjkr on April 16, 2015, 11:00:02 AM

So, someone sends coins, you sell them and hold cash on their behalf? Can't people do that themselves?

If I understand OP correctly, he is not going to sell your bitcoin investment but create a short position on Bitfinex to hedge the market risk for you. You will still be investing in the bankroll and earn a profit if the house wins.

People could hedge market risk on Bitfinex by themselves....thus covering their positions, even on BTC not invested in BitDice - e.g. BTC investments on BitBond lending platform.

But then they won't really be invested in the bankroll. The option is basically allowing them to invest Fiat in a way and see the have the advantage of being invested. I am sure a lot of people stay out of bitcoin, because of the volatility, so it would definitely be good for those people. But it won't really be good for bitcoin as essentially you guys will be dumping the coins in the market.

Grand_Voyageur

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Quote from: Chemistry1988 on April 16, 2015, 11:25:08 AM

Quote from: lucasjkr on April 16, 2015, 11:00:02 AM

So, someone sends coins, you sell them and hold cash on their behalf? Can't people do that themselves?

If I understand OP correctly, he is not going to sell your bitcoin investment but create a short position on Bitfinex to hedge the market risk for you. You will still be investing in the bankroll and earn a profit if the house wins.

People could hedge market risk on Bitfinex by themselves....thus covering their positions, even on BTC not invested in BitDice - e.g. BTC investments on BitBond lending platform.

Chemistry1988

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Quote from: lucasjkr on April 16, 2015, 11:00:02 AM

So, someone sends coins, you sell them and hold cash on their behalf? Can't people do that themselves?

If I understand OP correctly, he is not going to sell your bitcoin investment but create a short position on Bitfinex to hedge the market risk for you. You will still be investing in the bankroll and earn a profit if the house wins.

lucasjkr

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So, someone sends coins, you sell them and hold cash on their behalf? Can't people do that themselves?

Grand_Voyageur

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Quote from: marioantonini on April 16, 2015, 10:12:31 AM

I understand you correctly? I invest 1 btc, which today is worth $ 200, if tomorrow the price falls to $ 100 and I disinvest the btc, you send me $ 200 ( 2 btc if his value is 100 $)?

I think they may advertise a service like the Jet Fuel hedging with futures praticed by air carriers; but aimed at BTC, instead. If today you invest 1 BTC at market price, then tomorrow the price would end cut in half due to a massive price drop, you cannot recover the full fiat-value (2BTC) but at best 2-x BTC with x being hedge service & tx costs.

vennali

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Quote from: marioantonini on April 16, 2015, 10:12:31 AM

I understand you correctly? I invest 1 btc, which today is worth $ 200, if tomorrow the price falls to $ 100 and I disinvest the btc, you send me $ 200 ( 2 btc if his value is 100 $)?

Yes thats what they mean my the post.

Quote from: dogedice.me on April 15, 2015, 09:20:03 AM

BitDice has been long using hedging techniques to secure its own BTC capital during the downfalls of bitcoin. We are experienced players on the capital market and capable to cater the similar service to our investors.

Give us a shout if this additional service sounds interesting to you.

Regards,
Alex

Won't that be too much work ?, as not every investor would like to be part of it, and you will be essentially offering it for half the people.
Also if you split it this way ^ , then how will you process bets? Say if someone wins 1 BTC. Then you will essentially be subtracting dollar value from one of the investors and BTC from the other.

marioantonini

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I understand you correctly? I invest 1 btc, which today is worth $ 200, if tomorrow the price falls to $ 100 and I disinvest the btc, you send me $ 200 ( 2 btc if his value is 100 $)?

EvilPanda

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Quote from: ndnh on April 16, 2015, 03:20:30 AM

Bitcoin is probably already in the lows. If it rises to $1000000 all the investors will lose out, right?

If they choose the safe option then yes. That's what it's meant to do, switch your funds to USD as you're waiting for a reversal.
It's basically allows you to freeze your investment. A jump like that won't happen overnight, so you'll have enough time to get back in.

Minnlo

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Not a surprise to me that very few people are interested in it.
TBH, I think majority of the bitcoiners are expecting bitcoin price to go up, and for those bears, they are mostly already using different instruments long before you mentioned it.

ndnh

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Bitcoin is probably already in the lows. If it rises to $1000000 all the investors will lose out, right?

The Sceptical Chymist

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If preserving the value of bitcoin relative to US dollars is the goal, why not just hold US dollars? Value of those doesn't fluctuate anywhere near the range of bitcoins. problem solved and you don't have to jump through all these hoops with people you don't know exchanges you don't know and derivatives that you know nothing about.

supermeatboy385

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Heya !

Thing here is the site admin takes advantage of people who keep on asking for a ban,because of their gambling addiction.

Better lose your coins to dooglus !

CryptoMrM

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bump!

Seems like there isn't huge interest in such a service?

I thought of the same idea with my site https://uberdice.com.

However we were going to offer it across all altcoins as-well, into one 'universal' fiat linked site currency.

Unfortunately we found the fiat market depth of most altcoins isn't suitable or available, and leaves vulnerabilities. We instead opted for the 'universal' site currency to be instead, linked to BTC.

Best of luck with the idea. Indeed if I see it's successful here I might also integrate such a feature.

shanem

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This is a good exchange for bitcoin.
Now we have a way to buy or sell btc with margin.

dogedice.me

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Dear Friends,

The Bitcoin secular downtrend has urged us to come up with a hedging solution to eliminate the adverse impact of highly volatile and depreciating value of bitcoin.

For BitDice investors we contemplate to offer the capability of locking-in hard USD value of coin investments via instantaneous hedging of capital with financial instruments.

Technically it implies the cooperation with one of the largest and most advanced crypto-currency trading platform BITFINEX (www.bitfinex.com). To lock-in the value of bitcoin, investors will get the option to take offsetting position on the market, thus preserving the principal USD value of investment

BitDice has been long using hedging techniques to secure its own BTC capital during the downfalls of bitcoin. We are experienced players on the capital market and capable to cater the similar service to our investors.

Give us a shout if this additional service sounds interesting to you.

Regards,
Alex

Topic: Investing your bitcoins with no risk to ever deteriorating exchange rate? (Read 1671 times)