Topic: Irreversible payment methods? Protection for sellers advice needed (Read 1635 times)

I think that Localbitcoins is created by mafia,and they are robbing people on big price difference,also they are asking for id card,who know if they are stealing your private infomations I dont reccomed that kind of shitty website It sounds like a ponzi site for buy bitcoin for me.

Maybe it's valid, but it seems like the people on Localbitcoins.com are absurd, (or i guess, excessive)....   Like one time I made a cash deposit into someones personal checking account at a Bank of America, they then want you to write a bunch of crap on the deposit slip as if this cash deposit of someone elses account you can now withdrawal from, but whatever, then the guy actually made me wait 24 hours for it to "clear"  hahahahahaha wtf?? 

They charge prices that are like 20% over the market price, and are about the most paranoid group of people i've ever come across,

My suggestion is, just go to a Bitcoin ATM, I'm sure theres one nearby, put the cash in, walk out with coins, the limits are usually pretty high unless you are spending a ton of money....

And you don't have to start jumping through paranoid weird stuff to pay high prices....  Thats my suggestion...  Or use Coinmama, coinbase, if your in a hurry, or the best option, any of the big exchanges.....
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You are confirming that over the counter cash deposits are 100% irreversible? Only cheques take time to clear so why is the seller asking you to wait 24 hours for cash to clear?

Im looking sound sound advice when it comes to selling bitcoins. Your last couple of paragraph are good advice for buying bitcoins.

Yes I know that. All banks are not Bitcoin friendly in case you did not know.

Have you tried using Localbitcoins before? Some of the traders there do over the counter deposits in the bank accounts of who they are trading with and vice versa. Go look into it before you close your mind on the idea.
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Maybe it's valid, but it seems like the people on Localbitcoins.com are absurd, (or i guess, excessive)....   Like one time I made a cash deposit into someones personal checking account at a Bank of America, they then want you to write a bunch of crap on the deposit slip as if this cash deposit of someone elses account you can now withdrawal from, but whatever, then the guy actually made me wait 24 hours for it to "clear"  hahahahahaha wtf?? 

They charge prices that are like 20% over the market price, and are about the most paranoid group of people i've ever come across,

My suggestion is, just go to a Bitcoin ATM, I'm sure theres one nearby, put the cash in, walk out with coins, the limits are usually pretty high unless you are spending a ton of money....

And you don't have to start jumping through paranoid weird stuff to pay high prices....  Thats my suggestion...  Or use Coinmama, coinbase, if your in a hurry, or the best option, any of the big exchanges.....

I messaged perfect money and they clarified that the bank statement must be signed and stamped by the bank itself only. Is there notary in the bank?

you will have to verify your documents copy with a notary
and he will for a small fee,verify that the copy is valid
then you send it to perfect money,it is annoying I know but these are their rules
you can also message them again and ask for clarification

Update: Got a reply from Perfect Money and they said the address document that verifies the address stage of the account has to be signed and stamped as well wtf 

I really doubt any bank manager let alone my bank manager will give up some of his/her time to sign and stamp a bank statement.

What to do?

Most of the banks around the world are not "Bitcoin friendly". I have seen so many bankers having negative feelings on Bitcoin transactions.
To OP: I think you should try lavapay. It completes the transaction mostly before 24 hours and works perfect for UK.
And never do trading with people who have negative trust or who have very less history in trading.

Yes I know that. All banks are not Bitcoin friendly in case you did not know.

Have you tried using Localbitcoins before? Some of the traders there do over the counter deposits in the bank accounts of who they are trading with and vice versa. Go look into it before you close your mind on the idea.

the only good suggestion is to not trade with anyone you do not trust.
There is no secure way to trade with unknown people.

Banks in UK are not bitcoin friendly. Any other suggestions?

Then it would be a good thing to ask your bank, that has the account intended for your Bitcoin trades, if they do allow the reversal of over the counter deposits. As far as I know they are not allowed because that raises a lot of opportunities for fraudulent behavior.

I read stories on forums where direct cash bank deposits can be reversed.

The buyer could say he was forced into making the deposit and hence the bank can reverse it for the buyer.

If you are trading with people who are located from within your country why not open a bank account with the biggest and most popular bank and accept only over the counter payments that can be made by making the deposit in your bank account. I am sure branch to branch deposits are allowed in your country. All the buyer needs is your name and bank account.

it depends on many factors,for example,Webmoney is the best one if you live in CIS countries (Russia,Ukraine,Kazakhstan etc.)
Okpay and Perfectmoney are used worldwide but they lack some of the perks and protection of Webmoney
you must read more about each before making a decision
oh and there is one more processor none mentioned in  this topic
it is Payeer (payeer.com) -they accept bitcoins and allow btc to debit/credit card transfers and exchanging of many other digital currencies
you can get a debit card from them and collect your coins from an ATM near you (Mastercard compatible)
their fees are not the lowest but I have seen worse  
read more here:  https://payeer.com/upload/pdf/payeer_mastercard_en.pdf

Ok for a beginner like me what do you guys recommend which payment service shall I sign up for?

Which payment services mentioned above is the best overall in terms of speed, cheapest fees, seller security and is backed up with good reviews.

You are right about Lavapay. You can load via any payment mode or send another lavapay user the funds as well. The funds cannot be reversed.

I've heard cases with WU where the sender's money was frozen and the receiver too lost his funds in the transaction.

Any more payment methods that we missed out on and is worth mentioning here?

they are perfectly compaible (see what I did there?)
you can withdraw funds to your bank account directly,if you want to exchnage perfect money to any of the virtual/cryptocurrencies
you must use certified oficial partner exchangers for that,there is a huge list of them
webmoney is even easier to withdraw and exchange as they have an automatic trading exchange and support any credit/debit card
with webmoney you can dispute the transaction,they have a system of certificates called attestats (formal,personal,business etc.) and so called business level ratings
so you can see if the person you are trading with is real and trustworthy
but you will be asked to send copies of your passport to get you verified to be able to withdraw funds to your credit/debit card

Using a platform to sell is safer than going without due to fraud policies (eBay or Fiverr). The specific use of marketplaces is to profit from long term progress because of feedback and traffic volume in this category.

I'd suggest trying with small amounts so you can get the feel of how this works and what can be learned in order to alleviate risks / fear. Try asking your bank what kinds of payments can be reversed... Mine says it can't unless in rare cases of charge backs.

Ok you men that Lavapay converts the fiat cash into bitcoins/perfect money that is available to withdraw in 1 day?

What about Western Union sender original source of funds is from credit/debit card or cash at a Western Union agent, are these reversible?

PerfectMoney or cash could both be a great choice. I also find it okay to use payment methods that are hard to reverse, Payza for example which was not mentioned on the bitcoin wiki is hard to reverse and could lead to termination of the account. Neteller is also not that easy to chargeback If the funding of the account was not done by a credit card so as long as you ask for the proof of funding, you shouldn't face any problems.

So you saying perfect money does not do fiat currencies and is not compatible with bank accounts?

I have used all three payment methods and all of them are irreversible. They have no chargeback option and hence if any user needs to get their money back, they would need to go to court which would not be feasible for scammers. Lavapay is not exactly a payment method but it is a wallet which lets you accept cash or deposit cash and then you can withdraw via bitcoins/perfect money and so on. It takes 1 working day while perfect money and okpay are payment methods. Same goes for webmoney.

WU is link sending bank cash and it can be reversed or stopped by the sender. Localbitcoins is not a trusted place to deal with any reversible payment modes that involve the bank.

perfect money is not good, because if you want to exchange youre local bank
or youe exchange the real fiat money is need exchanger

Yes,they can block customer accounts.Withdrawing any money into the bank account right after you receive them looks a little bit suspicious and some issues might appear.
There are many ways to get scammed.Just trade with reputable members that have enough positive feedback and long trading history on LBC.

Yeah looking at that link list and seeing the ones that score 10 which are the best that I have noticed:

- LavaPay

- OKPay

- Perfect Money

- Webmoney


Which one is the best overall? Do these service providers freeze customer accounts? Can you sweep these accounts (withdrawing to bank account) straight away after the buyer has paid?

What about Western Union, how easy is it to stop a transfer for their 'Money in Minutes' transfer service?

Any decentralized network(currency) is practically irreversible.

are okpay, lavapay, perfectmoney really irreversible? Even if it was a fraudulent transfer?

But I'm 99% sure, that if you receive alot of fraudulent transfers, your account gets closed.

I believe this link will give all the answers that you need about reversibility of different methods: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Payment_methods

Im from UK and like to start trading on localbitcoins.com

Is direct cash deposit into a bank account reversible? Also what about cash by mail?

Is there any online payment method apart from bitcoin that is truly Irreversible?