Topic: IRS Probe of Bitcoin Goes Too Far, GOP Warns (Read 863 times)
Yeah, they are just on a witch hunt. Hopefully this gets blocked as they are definitely overstepping their bounds with this one and they shouldn't need records for all Coinbase users.
I am curious what those Republicans' agendas are. Politicians always move and act if it will meet the rewards of their self interests. Did someone from Bitcoin lobby for this? But who? I cannot think of a Bitcoin billionaire who has the political connections to make this move possible.
They probably bought it themselves or got bribes in BTC and didn't report it. It is possible they are invested in Bitcoin but taking bribes? They are senior Republicans not cheap lowly politicians from a third world country. They do not take bribes in money. They will take deals and make themselves more influential in the space.
Yes that always makes sense. Those dirty politicians must also be following the price of Bitcoin and thinks it is time to milk the Bitcoin cows to get more funding. They are slightly worse than the ICO scammers.
The IRS is definitely overstepping its bounds. I hope it gets massively downscaled and its role diminished, as it has already been abused by sitting presidents to stifle free speech (Obama and right-wing groups in 2013)
I am curious what those Republicans' agendas are. Politicians always move and act if it will meet the rewards of their self interests. Did someone from Bitcoin lobby for this? But who? I cannot think of a Bitcoin billionaire who has the political connections to make this move possible.
They probably bought it themselves or got bribes in BTC and didn't report it. It is possible they are invested in Bitcoin but taking bribes? They are senior Republicans not cheap lowly politicians from a third world country. They do not take bribes in money. They will take deals and make themselves more influential in the space.
I am curious what those Republicans' agendas are. Politicians always move and act if it will meet the rewards of their self interests. Did someone from Bitcoin lobby for this? But who? I cannot think of a Bitcoin billionaire who has the political connections to make this move possible.
They probably bought it themselves or got bribes in BTC and didn't report it. It is possible they are invested in Bitcoin but taking bribes? They are senior Republicans not cheap lowly politicians from a third world country. They do not take bribes in money. They will take deals and make themselves more influential in the space.
As corrupt as the IRS is, no one likes them, including the GOP. Good for them. People are tired of being raped by the government. They have their fingers in every one of our orifices, draining us of our precious bodily fluid. And that's just the federal government! Most states have an income tax on top of that, and tax on your house, car, fucking everything. It's maddening. Hopefully they're told to fuck off.
True! When Rome was overtaxed to the hilt, the society started to disintegrate and along with other myriad problems Rome as the world leader at that time collapsed. However, people in the government are not always good students of history as they pursue their own interests to the detriment of the common and lowly people like you and me. Maybe it is really time to send this strong message to them and we should be fortunate that some politicians are now taking sides with this issue.
I am curious what those Republicans' agendas are. Politicians always move and act if it will meet the rewards of their self interests. Did someone from Bitcoin lobby for this? But who? I cannot think of a Bitcoin billionaire who has the political connections to make this move possible.
They probably bought it themselves or got bribes in BTC and didn't report it.
I am curious what those Republicans' agendas are. Politicians always move and act if it will meet the rewards of their self interests. Did someone from Bitcoin lobby for this? But who? I cannot think of a Bitcoin billionaire who has the political connections to make this move possible.
The tax agency, for its part, has pointed out that only 802 Coinbase users filed a tax form related to bitcoin in 2015, which suggests large number of people have failed to declare capital gains related to bitcoin.
Capital gains tax on currency = bloody absurd.
Imagine the US dollar going through deflation for a year and the value of the US Dollar goes up - any CGT?
It's a good job I'm not an American.
Capital gains tax on currency = bloody absurd.
Imagine the US dollar going through deflation for a year and the value of the US Dollar goes up - any CGT?
It's a good job I'm not an American.
if you trade the us dollar against another currency at a brokerage then yes, you would pay taxes in your example. I don't think it's the capital gains rate however
The tax agency, for its part, has pointed out that only 802 Coinbase users filed a tax form related to bitcoin in 2015, which suggests large number of people have failed to declare capital gains related to bitcoin.
Capital gains tax on currency = bloody absurd.
Imagine the US dollar going through deflation for a year and the value of the US Dollar goes up - any CGT?
It's a good job I'm not an American.
Capital gains tax on currency = bloody absurd.
Imagine the US dollar going through deflation for a year and the value of the US Dollar goes up - any CGT?
It's a good job I'm not an American.
Good news story. The republicans likely do have a legitimate point that the IRS is overstepping their own rules by initiating a deep probe into coinbase. A lot of the information gathering methods the IRS is engaging in were likely passed for fighting terrorism. They weren't legislated to allow the IRS to do these types of inquiries.
As corrupt as the IRS is, no one likes them, including the GOP. Good for them. People are tired of being raped by the government. They have their fingers in every one of our orifices, draining us of our precious bodily fluid. And that's just the federal government! Most states have an income tax on top of that, and tax on your house, car, fucking everything. It's maddening. Hopefully they're told to fuck off.
...
Great thread, this introduces a number of topics worth discussing.
First, I am a confirmed opponent of the IRS in anything like its current form. It is extremely intrusive (they want to know everything about everyone's financial privacy). This information will get hacked in due course, look at the NSA viruses (WannaCry and who knows what else). It is essentially impossible to trust the IRS. They have been used numerous times for political malfeasance as well.
I am not a tax expert, but I have read that a proper role of BTC to (and from) other currencies is an EXCHANGE, and so "ought" to be tax free. The clever will flee to other cryptos, among other things... Just the saps will get hit (as always).
Also, I would suspect that it will NOT be the (more clever) criminals who get ensnared by the IRS, it will be stupid wanker/amateurs or just plain ignorant-of-the-law people. As tax laws are so complex, this invites even more abuse...
IMO, the right way to tax might be a Federal Sales Tax, no exceptions at all. Sort of like the Energy Tax, but WITHOUT any nosy Income Tax (or similar). IMO, what money we want private should stay private. The Feds will be unable to guard any secrets before long, and we will have enough problems fending off hackers, not to mention an overly-intrusive government.
Property Tax, while hated, is probably a legitimate tax, in that real estate cannot be moved, so it's easy to tax, and perhaps should be!
Great thread, this introduces a number of topics worth discussing.
First, I am a confirmed opponent of the IRS in anything like its current form. It is extremely intrusive (they want to know everything about everyone's financial privacy). This information will get hacked in due course, look at the NSA viruses (WannaCry and who knows what else). It is essentially impossible to trust the IRS. They have been used numerous times for political malfeasance as well.
I am not a tax expert, but I have read that a proper role of BTC to (and from) other currencies is an EXCHANGE, and so "ought" to be tax free. The clever will flee to other cryptos, among other things... Just the saps will get hit (as always).
Also, I would suspect that it will NOT be the (more clever) criminals who get ensnared by the IRS, it will be stupid wanker/amateurs or just plain ignorant-of-the-law people. As tax laws are so complex, this invites even more abuse...
IMO, the right way to tax might be a Federal Sales Tax, no exceptions at all. Sort of like the Energy Tax, but WITHOUT any nosy Income Tax (or similar). IMO, what money we want private should stay private. The Feds will be unable to guard any secrets before long, and we will have enough problems fending off hackers, not to mention an overly-intrusive government.
Property Tax, while hated, is probably a legitimate tax, in that real estate cannot be moved, so it's easy to tax, and perhaps should be!
http://fortune.com/2017/05/21/irs-bitcoin-congress/
Quote from: Joff John Roberts
A closely-watched fight between the Internal Revenue Service and a popular bitcoin exchange took a new twist last week, as senior Republicans in Congress sent a sharply-worded letter that suggests the tax agency is overstepping its powers.
The letter concerns an IRS investigation into possible tax evasion by customers who use Coinbase, a San Francisco-based company that many people use to buy digital currencies. As part of the investigation, which began last year, officials demanded that Coinbase turn over information for every one of its accounts.
Coinbase and its customers are currently in court trying to block the demand, saying it's too broad, and now the letter from the Republicans is likely to give them extra ammunition.
"The summons is estimated to affect 500,000 active Coinbase customers and would result in the production of millions of pages of associated records, many of which contain personally identifiable information ... Based on the information before us, this summons seems overly broad, extremely burdensome, and highly intrusive to a large population of individuals," says the letter, which is signed by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Ut), Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, and by Vern Buchanan and Kevin Brady, who head the House Committee on Ways and Means. (my emphasis)
Get Data Sheet, Fortune’s technology newsletter.
The Republicans' concerns echo those of Coinbase and its customers, who argue the IRS does not need every single Coinbase account to carry out its audit, and that the investigation sweeps in people who have clearly done nothing wrong.
The tax agency, for its part, has pointed out that only 802 Coinbase users filed a tax form related to bitcoin in 2015, which suggests large number of people have failed to declare capital gains related to bitcoin.
The IRS investigation also comes at a time when the price of bitcoin has been on an incredible tear, climbing from $13 in 2013 to a new high of over $2,000 last week. Those who profited from the higher prices—either by selling bitcoin for dollars or exchanging it for merchandise—are required to pay taxes on the gain.
Some Coinbase customers, however, have not sold any bitcoin at all while many others hold only a minimal amount, raising questions of why the IRS demanded information about every account.
One theory, according to a lawyer who spoke with Fortune late last year, is that the IRS's sweeping demand is a negotiating tactic to make Coinbase more cooperative, and that the two sides will reach an agreement to allow the agency to inspect some, but not all, of the accounts.
The letter from the Republicans, which asks the IRS to explain its strategy for enforcing tax payments on digital currency by June 7, is likely to put pressure on the agency to come to a deal with Coinbase.
The letter concerns an IRS investigation into possible tax evasion by customers who use Coinbase, a San Francisco-based company that many people use to buy digital currencies. As part of the investigation, which began last year, officials demanded that Coinbase turn over information for every one of its accounts.
Coinbase and its customers are currently in court trying to block the demand, saying it's too broad, and now the letter from the Republicans is likely to give them extra ammunition.
"The summons is estimated to affect 500,000 active Coinbase customers and would result in the production of millions of pages of associated records, many of which contain personally identifiable information ... Based on the information before us, this summons seems overly broad, extremely burdensome, and highly intrusive to a large population of individuals," says the letter, which is signed by Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Ut), Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, and by Vern Buchanan and Kevin Brady, who head the House Committee on Ways and Means. (my emphasis)
Get Data Sheet, Fortune’s technology newsletter.
The Republicans' concerns echo those of Coinbase and its customers, who argue the IRS does not need every single Coinbase account to carry out its audit, and that the investigation sweeps in people who have clearly done nothing wrong.
The tax agency, for its part, has pointed out that only 802 Coinbase users filed a tax form related to bitcoin in 2015, which suggests large number of people have failed to declare capital gains related to bitcoin.
The IRS investigation also comes at a time when the price of bitcoin has been on an incredible tear, climbing from $13 in 2013 to a new high of over $2,000 last week. Those who profited from the higher prices—either by selling bitcoin for dollars or exchanging it for merchandise—are required to pay taxes on the gain.
Some Coinbase customers, however, have not sold any bitcoin at all while many others hold only a minimal amount, raising questions of why the IRS demanded information about every account.
One theory, according to a lawyer who spoke with Fortune late last year, is that the IRS's sweeping demand is a negotiating tactic to make Coinbase more cooperative, and that the two sides will reach an agreement to allow the agency to inspect some, but not all, of the accounts.
The letter from the Republicans, which asks the IRS to explain its strategy for enforcing tax payments on digital currency by June 7, is likely to put pressure on the agency to come to a deal with Coinbase.
Jump to: