Is a nodes connection map feasible? | Bitcointalksearch.org

gweedo

legendary

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Quote from: niko on October 26, 2012, 02:15:29 PM

Quote from: optimator on October 26, 2012, 02:02:45 PM

A node connection map is an interesting idea. At first glance it would appear impossible, but it could be done.

It would be possible if there was software that individuals would be willing to run on their local machine. The software would pull the peers from the bitcoind client and then report the peers to a central server.

Another seemingly impossible idea was tracking all boat traffic in a given area. Look at http://marinetraffic.com/ais/.

marinetraffic.com is possible because there are land based receiving stations that relay the ship's AIS information to the internet. It's a similar approach to the problem.

This is an important idea. IPs will be collected anyway by private parties or government agencies, for various reasons. Providing a publicly accessible, open-sourced service would at least eliminate unfair advantage of such parties over others by making the information public.

this is why bitcoin client bitcoin.conf so you can exactly what sources it can connect to and not connect.

MoonShadow

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Yeah, with the quiet client mode & nodes running over tor & i2p, there is no practical way to do a node map. Yes, that is intentional.

gmaxwell

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Quote from: theomar on October 25, 2012, 03:27:57 PM

Ok it is not feasible in a way of knowing 100% the exact connections. But in places like Australia, New Zealand, Japan ect where the density of nodes is small (nodes are isolated from the major node volume in Europe and USA), can node connections be estimated with a good approximation?
Are any secret nodes that can not be detected on the btc node map?

Why do you assume those nodes are isolated? They are assuredly not— the software makes some effort to form topology-diverse connectivity and beyond that the network is randomly wired.

The overwhelming majority of nodes are 'secret'. Nodes which do not accept incoming connections never have their addresses visible except to the nodes they directly connect. Non-listening still function as complete nodes relaying transactions and blocks even though they aren't directly observable.

There are also a fair number of nodes which connect over Tor, and a number of nodes which are only inbound reachable as tor hidden services.

The bitcoin distributed algorithm is also not married to the peer to peer protocol, it's perfectly reasonable to link nodes via alternative means— e.g. bulk transferring blockchains (via https, scp, torrent, etc) is fairly widely done. People could even ship around transaction steganographically embedded in cat pictures. (and I've seen transactions being transported via IRC and pastebin).

You could certainly make measurements of the public stuff and infer some likely things about the hidden connectivity by things like transaction propagation times... but you can't reliably measure much of it.

niko

hero member

Activity: 756

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: optimator on October 26, 2012, 02:02:45 PM

A node connection map is an interesting idea. At first glance it would appear impossible, but it could be done.

It would be possible if there was software that individuals would be willing to run on their local machine. The software would pull the peers from the bitcoind client and then report the peers to a central server.

Another seemingly impossible idea was tracking all boat traffic in a given area. Look at http://marinetraffic.com/ais/.

marinetraffic.com is possible because there are land based receiving stations that relay the ship's AIS information to the internet. It's a similar approach to the problem.

This is an important idea. IPs will be collected anyway by private parties or government agencies, for various reasons. Providing a publicly accessible, open-sourced service would at least eliminate unfair advantage of such parties over others by making the information public.

optimator

sr. member

Activity: 351

Merit: 250

A node connection map is an interesting idea. At first glance it would appear impossible, but it could be done.

It would be possible if there was software that individuals would be willing to run on their local machine. The software would pull the peers from the bitcoind client and then report the peers to a central server.

Another seemingly impossible idea was tracking all boat traffic in a given area. Look at http://marinetraffic.com/ais/.

marinetraffic.com is possible because there are land based receiving stations that relay the ship's AIS information to the internet. It's a similar approach to the problem.

theomar

newbie

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that's cool!! total chaos!

Akka

legendary

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Quote from: theomar on October 25, 2012, 04:18:31 PM

Nodes connect to each other randomly or there is some kind of criteria?

I honestly don't know if there is any criteria. But I think every nodes establishes the connections to the first node that answers a request. (I'm probably wrong)

Quote from: theomar on October 25, 2012, 04:18:31 PM

How many connections with other nodes can one node make?

If you haven't forwarded port 8333 and/or 6667 you can establish max 8 connections. Other than that, it depends on you settings (run bitcoin-qt.exe -maxconnections=x ; default 125) other than that there it is oly limited by your internet connection.

Quote from: theomar on October 25, 2012, 04:18:31 PM

If the number and location of nodes are constant, the way the nodes are connected can be changed? (if yes, what can cause this?)

It isn't constant. It shifts all the time. Depending on nodes show up and go. My node also has a differnt amount of connections all view minutes.

theomar

newbie

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Excuse my ignorance but i have some more questions!!

Nodes connect to each other randomly or there is some kind of criteria?

How many connections with other nodes can one node make?

If the number and location of nodes are constant, the way the nodes are connected can be changed? (if yes, what can cause this?)

Akka

legendary

Activity: 1232

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I like the blockchain globe more, just because of the colors you can see the nodes better:

https://blockchain.info/nodes-globe

And no, it's not feasible. As posted above, we don't know exactly how they collect the data.

Due to IPs known for location, they probably only show nodes they where able to establish a direct connection too.

That would mean, that the globe only shows a fraction of actual nodes.

niko

hero member

Activity: 756

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Unfortunately, most of attempts to measure and present various Bitcoin indicators are not accompanied with precise explanations of the methods used. It's sad, because obviously people put great efforts into building these tools, but then diminish the value of the tool by not providing technical documentation.

theomar

newbie

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Ok it is not feasible in a way of knowing 100% the exact connections. But in places like Australia, New Zealand, Japan ect where the density of nodes is small (nodes are isolated from the major node volume in Europe and USA), can node connections be estimated with a good approximation?

Are any secret nodes that can not be detected on the btc node map?

theomar

newbie

Activity: 55

Merit: 0

There is a map that shows the bitcoin nodes all over the world:

http://www.weusecoins.com/globe-bitcoin/

I would like to know if there is a map that shows how the btc nodes are connected to each other.
If not, is it feasible?

Thank you in advance!

Topic: Is a nodes connection map feasible? (Read 1082 times)