Is announced bitcoin Ponzi/Pyramid Scheme illegal?

krigger

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Quote from: JaredStein on March 17, 2015, 12:57:46 PM

I think that it is illegal but am not sure, I am sure there are some cases already if it is illegal and if it is no, that is a shame.

Why a shame? It is a ponzi. Every ponzi is scam, that is proven well by now.
Call it as you desire, but time did not show good one, ever.

JaredStein

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I think that it is illegal but am not sure, I am sure there are some cases already if it is illegal and if it is no, that is a shame.

crazyearner

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Id far say BTC is ponzi, scheme The biggest ponzi, scheme is tax on everything across the globe. No one gets to see any real benefits from paying tax. Pay car tax roads meant to be good without pot holes. Pay tax on wages and expect a nice rebate. Under pay your tax their soon on your case to recover it and want it within a heartbeat. Only reason that BTC would get classed being a ponzi is because he or she does not understand enough about it to soon make an assumptive decision that is a scam when in fact it is not. Whe nI first heard of it knowing nothing I shouted scam con all the stuff anyone would do not knowing anything proper about it. After a while I looked into it more and found it to be a lot more than a scam reading more and more into it. Now I use Bitcoin every month or so and soon as it gets to the point of been mainstream I would love to be paid my wages in bitcoin and buy everything with bitcoin and rid fiat currency.

ajareselde

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Satoshi is rolling in his grave. #bitcoin

Quote from: GermanGiant on February 24, 2015, 01:48:17 PM

Quote from: PonZ on February 24, 2015, 12:37:41 AM

1. Just because someone uses the word "ponzi" in a scheme, doesn't make the scheme a "ponzi" scheme. (Going to a murder mystery party does not make you a murderer.)
2. The classical Ponzi scheme involves "fraud". That means deception or an intent to trick the investors.
3. If an investment scheme calls itself a "ponzi" but is totally clear and up front about the method or possibility of payment, there is no fraud.
4. Whether a scheme requires USD or BTC or a box of bananas is not relevant in most jurisdictions. What is relevant is whether the people running the scheme sat out to commit fraud.

I like the way you have put in your logic, but most people here are not going to listen to anything and at the first encounter of the word 'Ponzi', they start screaming PONZI PONZI PONZI !!!

and in 99% cases they would be right to do so, lets face it, one doesnt just add word ponzi to ther name if theyre with legit intentions.
even if i had everyones guarantee not to be scammed, i would never join such case, and let alone invest in it, and if you would do anything but run away from it , i would consider you reckless

cheers

GermanGiant

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Quote from: PonZ on February 24, 2015, 12:37:41 AM

1. Just because someone uses the word "ponzi" in a scheme, doesn't make the scheme a "ponzi" scheme. (Going to a murder mystery party does not make you a murderer.)
2. The classical Ponzi scheme involves "fraud". That means deception or an intent to trick the investors.
3. If an investment scheme calls itself a "ponzi" but is totally clear and up front about the method or possibility of payment, there is no fraud.
4. Whether a scheme requires USD or BTC or a box of bananas is not relevant in most jurisdictions. What is relevant is whether the people running the scheme sat out to commit fraud.

I like the way you have put in your logic, but most people here are not going to listen to anything and at the first encounter of the word 'Ponzi', they start screaming PONZI PONZI PONZI !!!

ndnh

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Quote from: Pustul on January 10, 2015, 04:43:14 PM

Hi guys,
I know that pyramid scheme is illegal in many countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

But a question rised in the Weekly Ponzi v3 thread. Is using this scheme illegal, if someone is marketing his website as a ponzi gambling site? Considering the fact that the ponzi is using btc and not fiat currency.

Hope some of you are more informed that I am

Though people go by the way that ponzis are not fraud because it says that it IS a ponzi and it is clear to any rational investor, it is not so.
In the case, it would be more like gambling which is illegal on many jurisdictions.

If you play ponzi with gold, it is still a ponzi. So I think just because it uses bitcoin doesn't make it legal.

PonZ

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1. Just because someone uses the word "ponzi" in a scheme, doesn't make the scheme a "ponzi" scheme. (Going to a murder mystery party does not make you a murderer.)
2. The classical Ponzi scheme involves "fraud". That means deception or an intent to trick the investors.
3. If an investment scheme calls itself a "ponzi" but is totally clear and up front about the method or possibility of payment, there is no fraud.
4. Whether a scheme requires USD or BTC or a box of bananas is not relevant in most jurisdictions. What is relevant is whether the people running the scheme sat out to commit fraud.

crazyearner

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Quote from: Nagle on February 16, 2015, 04:04:06 PM

Ponzi schemes using Bitcoins are illegal in the US. See SEC vs. Trendon Shavers, where that issue was decided.

Indeed ponzi sites and schemes are indeed illegal so many are beginning to start using BTC and crypto because it is not control and does not have a refund policy like many things like Payza Egopay Solid Trust PAy does and has strict rules just like paypal. As to Crypto everything is final and more ponzi are jumping on to this seeing as it is a gold mine for people to jump into gamble win and some and many can easily lose yet ponzi hyip gets off with thousands of $ worth of coin

Nagle

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Ponzi schemes using Bitcoins are illegal in the US. See SEC vs. Trendon Shavers, where that issue was decided.

polarhei

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Firing it up

If real, then do concealed. All words look like legitimate. Actually after few days you will know.

Let see how.

A real stuff is, You must be doing for real while letting more people in.
New money actually is used for paying for new.
One more thing. They don't promise any. they only say relying on the performance after a period even with good previous records audited by accountancy and government (If this is a PLC).

In ponzi scheme, New money is used for paying for the top ONLY. These schemes usually promise very much, the number is usually very ridiculous.

If you use sense to find, you probably know you should not take part in.

crazyearner

legendary

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Ponzi/Pryamid is something that is and always been from day 1 that it will pay for x amount of time and then run away with peoples money or cryptos. As in rob Peter to pay Paul. Member 1 comes in deposits. Member 2 comes in deposits and that deposit pays member 1. Member 3 comes in pays and then that pays member 2 and so on. Pryamid or even matrix style and gambling no real services or products to sustain real profits all leading to SCAM.

HipocriticalPeople

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lol lol lol
let me tell you about a ponzi scheme: youtube com/ watch ?v= iFDe5kUUyT0
http://oi61.tinypic.com/xprm35.jpg
thats real scam that we all should be together fighing against... and not being so hypocritical and naive. Roll Eyes

GrandmaJean

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Quote from: raganius on January 18, 2015, 08:50:29 PM

So, probably, if one makes it very clear to each person participating what it is about and inform them clearly of the inherent risks and losses that participants may experience, it (at least) may not be considered a fraud.

No you are wrong. It does not matter if they announce the fact they are breaking the law. If they are breaking the law then it is illegal. Running a ponzi scheme is illegal.

/thread

raganius

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I might be wrong, but usually the fact that the scheme involves money directly means nothing to law enforcement. The main concern is the fraudulent act in which people are deceived for the benefit of others. So, if you run a ponzi scheme pretending that it is not that, it is a criminal act, no matter if it involves USD, BTC, gold, postcards, kisses, etc.

So, probably, if one makes it very clear to each person participating what it is about and inform them clearly of the inherent risks and losses that participants may experience, it (at least) may not be considered a fraud.

(But, anyway, it will always depend on many other factors, being some of these factors, the involved jurisdiction, laws, peculiarities, amongst others.)

98problems

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It really does not matter if they announce that they are running a ponzi. If they are running a ponzi then it is illegal. All they are doing is just making it easier for a potential future prosecutor to win a conviction.

Let me ask you this: would it be illegal to murder someone if you publicly announce that you are going to kill them ahead of time? How is this example different from the ponzis?

Marcoser123321

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Someone got arrested not too long ago for promoting a ponzi using bitcoins. The news link should be around here somewhere.

seabass1985

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Think For Yourself Question Authority

good any protection we as a community can get is awesome!

ivonna

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Yes. It does not matter if they advertise their services as something that is breaking the law or not. If what they are doing is breaking the law then it is illegal.

I would highly advise against investing as doing so would almost certainly result in you loosing all of your money

--Encrypted--

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hee-ho.

Quote from: onewiseguy on January 12, 2015, 04:29:56 PM

Quote from: --Encrypted-- on January 12, 2015, 04:24:37 PM

I think it is considered illegal. I don't hate them, heck, I took part in some of those sites. but I will be really happy if these ponzi schemers get caught.

it would only be fair if Ponzi schemers get caught and you as well since "heck, I took part in some of those sites"

you were part of the ponzi since you knew what it was. and you helped them commit fraud, IF THAT was the case,

but since every single person that deposited btc in them knew it was a ponzi than it is not fraud. there was no promises of any return besides "if the next person send btc" do you see how technicality it is not a ponzi since every party involved knew what it was from the very start, there was no misleading information.

sure, all parties —including me— are guilty because they knowingly took part on it

honest or not, it is still a ponzi.

onewiseguy

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Quote from: --Encrypted-- on January 12, 2015, 04:24:37 PM

I think it is considered illegal. I don't hate them, heck, I took part in some of those sites. but I will be really happy if these ponzi schemers get caught.

it would only be fair if Ponzi schemers get caught and you as well since "heck, I took part in some of those sites"

you were part of the ponzi since you knew what it was. and you helped them commit fraud, IF THAT was the case,

but since every single person that deposited btc in them knew it was a ponzi than it is not fraud. there was no promises of any return besides "if the next person send btc" do you see how technicality it is not a ponzi since every party involved knew what it was from the very start, there was no misleading information.

RocketSingh

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Quote from: Pustul on January 10, 2015, 04:43:14 PM

Hi guys,
I know that pyramid scheme is illegal in many countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

But a question rised in the Weekly Ponzi v3 thread. Is using this scheme illegal, if someone is marketing his website as a ponzi gambling site? Considering the fact that the ponzi is using btc and not fiat currency.

Hope some of you are more informed that I am

I think it would come under the same category as of gambling sites. If gambling is considered illegal, then declared ponzis are illegal too... otherwise not.

--Encrypted--

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hee-ho.

I think it is considered illegal. I don't hate them, heck, I took part in some of those sites. but I will be really happy if these ponzi schemers get caught.

Pustul

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I guess even in bitcoin ponzi are not allowed: http://cir.ca/news/police-target-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme

onewiseguy

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I would like to know as well.
I understand a ponzi is a ponzi, but fiat and crypto two totally different objects.

in the eyes of most countries btc is just a high risk investment not currency.

Pustul

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Hi guys,
I know that pyramid scheme is illegal in many countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

But a question rised in the Weekly Ponzi v3 thread. Is using this scheme illegal, if someone is marketing his website as a ponzi gambling site? Considering the fact that the ponzi is using btc and not fiat currency.

Hope some of you are more informed that I am

Topic: Is announced bitcoin Ponzi/Pyramid Scheme illegal? (Read 5893 times)