Is Argentina the cyprus of 2014? | Bitcointalksearch.org

polynesia

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Quote from: giveBTCpls on August 23, 2014, 06:21:06 AM

Cristina Hitchens is a massive delusional spastic that doesn't get you can't defy the status quo without a more solid plan than saying "we are not paying that debt" then expecting things to not get royalty fucked up.

Just trying to get the vulture investors to back down.

giveBTCpls

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Cristina Hitchens is a massive delusional spastic that doesn't get you can't defy the status quo without a more solid plan than saying "we are not paying that debt" then expecting things to not get royalty fucked up.

itsAj

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Quote from: fran2k on August 14, 2014, 10:57:28 PM

Quote from: Mobius on August 13, 2014, 01:29:21 AM

Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

I don't think this would be possible. You cannot "mint" cryptos out of thing air. You must first make an investment (buy an ASIC(s)). If you are referring to them creating some kind of altcoin with coins premined then this would also make no sense as it would be unlikely that there would be any kind of demand for this (there is little demand for most alts).

First, all FIAT money is full premine. Second, this alt could be backed by the stated, and that can make it quite popular.

If the national currency is unpopular in a country then why would an atlcoin that is backed by the same country do any better? An altcoin as you describe would have less benefits and more drawbacks then a fiat based currency based by a specific country. The main difference is that an altcoin based currency would be subject to attacks on the network while a fiat based currency would not.

botany

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Quote from: zen2 on August 17, 2014, 06:43:19 AM

I think Turkey, now you mentioned it, could be a real contender. Turkey is very well integrated in the international tourism market, has a remittance population in Germany which sends money home and then there are those rules you mentioned. It was the exchange rules that convinced some Chinese to go big into Bitcoin.

I'm rather excited that now there is supposedly 4000 bank terminals in Ukraine which accept Bitcoin but the problem is I don't want to vacation in a country and have my hotel or hostel get blown up by a ballistic missile.

There are a lot of countries which seem to be 'ripe' for discovering bitcoin.

cuddaloreappu

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Crying for Argentina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya3Dh1K2qvA

zen2

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I think Turkey, now you mentioned it, could be a real contender. Turkey is very well integrated in the international tourism market, has a remittance population in Germany which sends money home and then there are those rules you mentioned. It was the exchange rules that convinced some Chinese to go big into Bitcoin.

I'm rather excited that now there is supposedly 4000 bank terminals in Ukraine which accept Bitcoin but the problem is I don't want to vacation in a country and have my hotel or hostel get blown up by a ballistic missile.

zedicus

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Quote from: madken7777 on August 15, 2014, 03:47:54 AM

Quote from: zedicus on August 14, 2014, 11:12:50 PM

Quote from: botany on August 13, 2014, 12:51:26 PM

Quote from: Mobius on August 13, 2014, 01:29:21 AM

Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

I don't think this would be possible. You cannot "mint" cryptos out of thing air. You must first make an investment (buy an ASIC(s)). If you are referring to them creating some kind of altcoin with coins premined then this would also make no sense as it would be unlikely that there would be any kind of demand for this (there is little demand for most alts).

I think most altcoins see "hyperinflation" in their value, that is see their value tumble as people realize that the alt has no value that bitcoin cannot provide.

Even if they do come out with altcoins, its credibility would be linked to the Argentinian government. You would probably see hyperinflation in these altcoins too. Wink

I think that most altcoins experience hyperinflation as more people realize that they cannot offer any thing of value so people sell the coins. This results in the price of the altcoin more or less crashing.

Altcoins have no value to begin with. This is just the dump phase rather than "hyperinflation".

They get their value from the speculators in the market, instead of from the security of the network (miners) as what happens with bitcoin.

TETOCONPOLERA

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As you can see in Coinmap, in Argentina we have a lot of business which accepts bitcoins, 148 vs 154 from the other country in south america together

also we have some e-business like bitpagos, digicoins, http://enbitcoins.com (where you can pay taxes and services with bitcoin), two exchange (unisend and satoshitango)

on the other hand, we are near 40.000.000 inhabitants, so we still have a long road...

we have a new "revolutionary moventent".... LaSatoshi when we do a little publicity, it's a half joke, a half seriuos

https://www.facebook.com/lasatoshi?fref=ts

madken7777

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Quote from: zedicus on August 14, 2014, 11:12:50 PM

Quote from: botany on August 13, 2014, 12:51:26 PM

Quote from: Mobius on August 13, 2014, 01:29:21 AM

Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

I don't think this would be possible. You cannot "mint" cryptos out of thing air. You must first make an investment (buy an ASIC(s)). If you are referring to them creating some kind of altcoin with coins premined then this would also make no sense as it would be unlikely that there would be any kind of demand for this (there is little demand for most alts).

I think most altcoins see "hyperinflation" in their value, that is see their value tumble as people realize that the alt has no value that bitcoin cannot provide.

Even if they do come out with altcoins, its credibility would be linked to the Argentinian government. You would probably see hyperinflation in these altcoins too. Wink

I think that most altcoins experience hyperinflation as more people realize that they cannot offer any thing of value so people sell the coins. This results in the price of the altcoin more or less crashing.

Altcoins have no value to begin with. This is just the dump phase rather than "hyperinflation".

zedicus

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Quote from: botany on August 13, 2014, 12:51:26 PM

Quote from: Mobius on August 13, 2014, 01:29:21 AM

Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

I don't think this would be possible. You cannot "mint" cryptos out of thing air. You must first make an investment (buy an ASIC(s)). If you are referring to them creating some kind of altcoin with coins premined then this would also make no sense as it would be unlikely that there would be any kind of demand for this (there is little demand for most alts).

I think most altcoins see "hyperinflation" in their value, that is see their value tumble as people realize that the alt has no value that bitcoin cannot provide.

Even if they do come out with altcoins, its credibility would be linked to the Argentinian government. You would probably see hyperinflation in these altcoins too. Wink

I think that most altcoins experience hyperinflation as more people realize that they cannot offer any thing of value so people sell the coins. This results in the price of the altcoin more or less crashing.

fran2k

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Quote from: Mobius on August 13, 2014, 01:29:21 AM

Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

I don't think this would be possible. You cannot "mint" cryptos out of thing air. You must first make an investment (buy an ASIC(s)). If you are referring to them creating some kind of altcoin with coins premined then this would also make no sense as it would be unlikely that there would be any kind of demand for this (there is little demand for most alts).

First, all FIAT money is full premine. Second, this alt could be backed by the stated, and that can make it quite popular.

cuddaloreappu

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Activity: 756

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8,000 Convenience Stores in Argentina Now Sell Bitcoin

http://www.coindesk.com/bitpagos-brings-bitcoin-8000-convenience-stores-ripio/

botany

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Quote from: Mobius on August 13, 2014, 01:29:21 AM

Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

I don't think this would be possible. You cannot "mint" cryptos out of thing air. You must first make an investment (buy an ASIC(s)). If you are referring to them creating some kind of altcoin with coins premined then this would also make no sense as it would be unlikely that there would be any kind of demand for this (there is little demand for most alts).

Even if they do come out with altcoins, its credibility would be linked to the Argentinian government. You would probably see hyperinflation in these altcoins too. Wink

Mobius

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Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

I don't think this would be possible. You cannot "mint" cryptos out of thing air. You must first make an investment (buy an ASIC(s)). If you are referring to them creating some kind of altcoin with coins premined then this would also make no sense as it would be unlikely that there would be any kind of demand for this (there is little demand for most alts).

nicojuritz

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Every country has its way of managing its own crisis in all aspect so i don't think thats possible.

Bogleg

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Quote from: fran2k on August 12, 2014, 01:02:21 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

Good one. Just need to mint something to convince other it is better than bitcoin.

Instant profit.

fran2k

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Activity: 784

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Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

May be they shoud try with cryptocurrencies. Cheesy

polynesia

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dontCAREhair on August 07, 2014, 09:51:51 PM

Quote from: polynesia on August 07, 2014, 09:24:43 PM

Quote from: Super Bitcoin on August 07, 2014, 02:09:22 PM

everything looks similiar .
im really curios to know and understand about that Cheesy

You don't have to wait for long. Things will play out in the next couple of months.

The difference is that Argentina will likely be contained just in Argentina, while the problem in cypress could have easily spread throughout europe.

I wish we could be sure of that.

http://www.ftadviser.com/2014/08/07/funds-and-data/default-may-expose-global-vulnerability-CxMS2BGjtw5aoL2r1p1btI/article.html

dontCAREhair

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Quote from: polynesia on August 07, 2014, 09:24:43 PM

Quote from: Super Bitcoin on August 07, 2014, 02:09:22 PM

everything looks similiar .
im really curios to know and understand about that Cheesy

You don't have to wait for long. Things will play out in the next couple of months.

The difference is that Argentina will likely be contained just in Argentina, while the problem in cypress could have easily spread throughout europe.

polynesia

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Super Bitcoin on August 07, 2014, 02:09:22 PM

everything looks similiar .
im really curios to know and understand about that Cheesy

You don't have to wait for long. Things will play out in the next couple of months.

botany

legendary

Activity: 1582

Merit: 1064

Quote from: tinof on August 07, 2014, 01:23:36 PM

Just opening up the country and border will attract foreign capital. Undeveloped land will be bought up and develop by transnational companies and local labor/population will benefit from it.

The only worry is the gates can't be closed after that.
If the US begins to look more attractive, capital could rush out.
And that could lead to a lot more economic devastation.

Super Bitcoin

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everything looks similiar .
im really curios to know and understand about that Cheesy

tinof

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Quote from: polynesia on August 07, 2014, 01:19:43 PM

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on August 07, 2014, 04:02:45 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

Yep minting is never the solution to a financial crisis usually its development of the countries industries and diversifying the cash flow
The other way is infrastructure spending.
Hard to do when a country is in default though.

But printing more of something worthless would just make it worth less (har har)
Think the Zimbabwae Dollar or the Weimar republic as some examples.

Develop the country's industries, make sure the fiscal deficit is under control..... You will automatically attract capital.

Just opening up the country and border will attract foreign capital. Undeveloped land will be bought up and develop by transnational companies and local labor/population will benefit from it.

polynesia

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Swordsoffreedom on August 07, 2014, 04:02:45 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

Yep minting is never the solution to a financial crisis usually its development of the countries industries and diversifying the cash flow
The other way is infrastructure spending.
Hard to do when a country is in default though.

But printing more of something worthless would just make it worth less (har har)
Think the Zimbabwae Dollar or the Weimar republic as some examples.

Develop the country's industries, make sure the fiscal deficit is under control..... You will automatically attract capital.

Swordsoffreedom

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Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

Yep minting is never the solution to a financial crisis usually its development of the countries industries and diversifying the cash flow
The other way is infrastructure spending.
Hard to do when a country is in default though.

But printing more of something worthless would just make it worth less (har har)
Think the Zimbabwae Dollar or the Weimar republic as some examples.

twiifm

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Activity: 784

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Quote from: polynesia on August 06, 2014, 12:17:10 PM

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

I agree. Monetary policy alone cannot solve economic problems

polynesia

legendary

Activity: 1358

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Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

No country has managed to mint its way out of a crisis.

twiifm

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Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: Connor936 on August 05, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

Quote from: twiifm on August 05, 2014, 10:35:30 PM

Quote from: michaelwang33 on August 05, 2014, 09:55:31 PM

Quote from: twiifm on August 03, 2014, 10:32:53 PM

Quote from: polynesia on August 03, 2014, 09:44:31 PM

Quote from: twiifm on August 03, 2014, 10:45:17 AM

Quote from: polynesia on August 03, 2014, 08:42:20 AM

Quote from: twiifm on August 03, 2014, 02:29:37 AM

This is about Argentina defaulting on its bonds. Bonds are denominated in USD so they can't print pesos to get out of mess. Not comparable to Cyprus situation. Cypriots bought bitcoin because imposed bank holiday

Stop thinking everything is good for bitcoin. LOL Roll Eyes

If Argentinians could buy USD, they would.
Depends on whether BTC is easier to lay hands on, or USD.
In the end, it could be good for bitcoin.

Did you read the story? Agentina is defaulting on some bonds. What does this have to go people converting their currency

The link is Argentina defaults --> Harder to get external credit --> More printing of pesos --> High Inflation.
In the end, people will have to look after themselves, if their pesos get devalued very quickly.

The bonds are denominated in USD though. Plus they're already having inflation problems. Why would they print more pesos? If anything they'll go back to pegging their currency or they'll go to IMF and be forced to follow whatever IMF reccomends

For regular Argentinian people I think they have already been buying USD but the govt placed limitation in Jan.

I'm gonna ask my Argentinian friend about it. I don't think in times of crisis most people will suddenly start speculating. I think they seek stability

This does work somewhat however the more pesos that are printed the less effective this becomes as this would cause a sell off in pesos.

I seriously doubt that the IMF will bail out Argentina as they are really too big of a country for the IMF to lend to. The IMF usually lends to countries with very small economies that never had access to capital markets while Argentina has had access to the capital markets.

Printing more ARS wont pay off USD denominated debts. They have to acquire USD from somewhere. Is Argentina bigger than S Korea in 1997? IMF actually proposed a restructuring in 2003 but plan was abandoned due to pressures from USA

Argentina could print pesos to buy dollars to pay back their debts. As they sell more pesos, the value of each peso would decrease so the more they print the less dollars they can buy on a per peso basis.

It doesn't work like that.

Now that I've researched the story in more detail. Its not that Argentina can't pay, they refused to pay some vulture funds and they got sued in US courts. The judges ruling forced them to miss bond payment and thats why credit rating was rated as default

But their money is still a mess

Connor936

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