Topic: Is bitcoin really exist? (Read 322 times)

Bitcoin is a growing space of innovation and there are business opportunities that also include risks. There is no guarantee that Bitcoin will continue to grow even though it has developed at a very fast rate so far. Investing time and resources on anything related to Bitcoin requires entrepreneurship.

If you are referring to a physical Bitcoins, yeah it exists called Casascius Bitcoins, created by a guy in Utah named Mike Caldwell, which made of brass, with gold electroplating.



A Casascius Coin is a physical version of a Bitcoin. This coin comes in different shapes, designs and forms. The main reason for designing these coins was to make them available for market transactions. However, in 2013, Caldwell had to shut it down. The reason for shutting down was because of the intervention of FINCEN due to lack of required licensing to operate.

Sources:
https://www.cnet.com/culture/are-physical-bitcoins-legal/
https://www.analyticssteps.com/blogs/what-casascius-coin

yeah. bitcoin is exist but on the blockchain and those cannot be touched and seen. i am asking in which form does it exist on the blockchain?

thank you for your valuable feedback sir. but it didn't solve my problem

is this the code of bitcoin or if not what is that code sir??

But days ago this is what you said that needs to pay attention


So what is truly your stands here?

Have you lose something from bitcoin?then why not extend your explanation so we can understand your views .

But bitcoin does not exist in physical aspect but this is running in online transacting .

that is the point sir. u got it.  i wanted to know in which form is bitcoin exist on blockchain.... may you explain me further??

i am not asking how bitcoin is mined and halved sir. i have studies those proceces. i am seeking in which form bitcoin exist on the blockchain. i must have any kind of form to be exist.

Hmm interesting question and yes bitcoin doesn't really exist in real-world is untouchable and many more. but its more like script or data so when you send bitcoin its more like you send the data

maybe he is, by the sound of the question after reading it again."are there 21 ml  scripts??"

i feel he is asking is it
a digital certificate system(cant break up certificates and there are only 21m of them),
a digital cash system(spend a bank note get back smaller denominations in return)
or
an account system(majority funds dont move and only small denominations destined to be spent go out)

to which the answer is its a digital cash system.
when you receive say 2btc.  but you have to spend that and tell the transaction the destinations of the recipient and your address to get the change back, where by the change is your new unspent transaction.

if he is asking about how does the system account for the 21m..
well it was explained in previous posts about the creation..(the initial release over time)

the auditing is in the form of the blockchain that stores all transactions that ever all happened, showing the units  movements how they are spent(divided up/spread out). and how they balance out, so no new coins can be made away from the creation(mining block coin reward rule).
where a separate database also stores a list for quick reference of the blockchain at local software level a utxoset (the current unspent transaction values), it just lists an index/glossary of the current locations of the unspent amounts, without listing their previous spending log/taint/trace/history. thus easy to use that unspent list by the software for reference instead of trying to find it in the blockchain database. when its time to spend
the system audits the blockchain and ensures no unexpected edits/changes occured. and knows how much there should be in total at any given time

Blockchain is a database that shows the data about every transaction in Bitcoin network. And every full node stores their own copy of blockchain, and everyone has the exactly same database. So if you ask if Bitcoin exists - yes, it's a record in a database that is stored in thousands of independent computers across the world. It's more robust than something like a banking system which relies on records that are stored on some centralized servers.

I hope you are just trolling. If the case is negative, then I am saddened by the fact that you are super daft.

How do you even wake up one day and ask such a question? Your brain definitely needs a serious CPR or something like that  

The question of if bitcoin exists or not is naive and unacceptable to me. The right question should be, how long will bitcoin exist? We have already seen that bitcoin is existing. Many has acquired lands and building with bitcoin. Some bought cars with bitcoin. We have converted bitcoin to any currency(fiat) and bitcoin has given employment to many. How much more do you want bitcoin to exist before you understand that it is existing?

Obviously, there is nothing that exists today that would be in existence without value. The value is the core essence.  Bitcoin is valuable just as fiat is valuable. Anyway that a law is passed in your country and the value of your fiat is removed, that is when you will realise that the fiat is nothing but a paper which can be printed as much as you want. Then you will realised that a fixed bitcoin is more valuable than your fiat.

If youre asking this im not sure if you understood the basic concept. I will try to explain it simplified and not too technical on purpose.

Bitcoin is a network, mostly run on Bitcoin core(a software), anyone can download it. Each computer that runs this software(you call them nodes), builds a connection to other computers that run it too(but not to all of them). Forming a network. Right now there are 15.000 or more of them(the precise amount is unkown). Anyone who wants to participate can join this network voluntarily, by also running a software that gives them access to the network.

Each of these computers stores every Bitcoin transaction ever made. For this, a special kind of database is used that is called blockchain. The basic concept is that around every 10 minutes a new Block with new transactions is being appended to the chain, forming a chain that goes from Block 0(2009) till now Block 743053(2022). And will continue to grow as long as the network exists.

Now if each of these 15.000 computers has the same database and we need to add new transactions, how can we do it without chaos/ and manipulation and keeping everything the same? Were creating an adapting difficulty to find new Blocks(which contain the new transactions) and pay a reward(newly created Bitcoin, until 21 million have been created) + transaction fees, to whoever can find it first. This creates a competition and a monetary incentive for everyone who participates(miners) to stay honest. Its more costly and difficult to attack the network, than to just work for it. The cheaper your energy and the more efficient the mining rig(asics), the more profitable it will be for a participant. Everyone in the network then appends the newly mined Block to their chain. The result is a database that is exactly the same for everyone, without a central authority in control.

You can simply broadcast a transaction to your node, or use someone else node that does this for you, and then wait until its taken into a new Block. The space there is limited(usually around 2000 transactions fit in), and you choose a transaction fee you want to spend, to get taken in. You just type in the address you wanna send/ receive Bitcoin to, usually in another type of wallet software. This wallet stores your private keys(the thing you need to prove ownership and to spend Bitcoin), and this key always needs to be kept secret. Each of these 15.000 computers "store" your(all) Bitcoin, you can always recover them from anywhere, if you still have your private key. Imagine you could recover your money from anywhere with just a cryptographic key, you can now. Also they(the nodes) make sure that the rules of the network are being followed and that there will never be more than 21 million Bitcoin being created for example, like we showed above.

Note this is just the tip of the iceberg and this goes in way deeper, take this as a light introduction that can maybe spark some interest, but you should verify everything i told you yourself and theres way more to it.

The use of bitwise is genius for this.

Do know the meaning of Crypto ? If you don't know, then google it. Now let's see what the word cryptocurrency means. In my language crypto currency is an invisible economic system. Read it to understand better: source: link
Maybe you know the definition of it. Even then again I gave this just because of this "Is bitcoin really  exist". Not just bitcoin their is no others altcoin doesn't exists physically  in real life. And if it exists, then it does not fall into cryptocurrency. That means, no cryptocurrency has any physical assets. These just exist virtually in some numbers.

I mean, technically yeah it does exist. I mean, it's stored somewhere, i.e hard drives. Just because something doesn't exist physically, i.e to touch doesn't exactly mean it doesn't exist. We know this, most people know this. However, it's going to be difficult to convince the masses of this.

However, I do see one benefit of Bitcoin being around right now, most people are becoming more accustomed to digital money, since pretty much the whole world is shifting to using credit cards, bank accounts rather than dealing with physical cash. The more that progresses, the less cash is being used, and the less people will focus on it being something physical.

Simply just numbers, its like you transfer from your paypal account to another paypal account. You can imagine anything similar to any digital wallet that sends "digital money" using internet. It doesnt have any physically form, but it "has" value and it exists.

It was programmed, just like any central banks released its total local currency in numbers in circulation, the difference bitcoin is fixed and will not be changed as of the moment.

Simply put, bitcoin wallets are software programmed to send the bitcoin that "held" in the bitcoin wallet address with the help of the private keys.

If you want the technicalities, then let us know, people here will be give you word by word explanations in technical way.

This question only makes sense philosophically. Does anything digital really exist? Does this forum exist, or social media, or any websites? It is, after all, purely digital, just 1s and 0s. And yet these 1s and 0s have a profound effect on our lives because it doesn't really matter to us that we can't touch a Facebook post if it contains information that we're interested in. Bitcoin is digital, but so are the replies in this thread and the op's question in the first place, and yet we don't doubt that we're typing these replies and sending them. So being digital doesn't mean not being real, not in any meaningful sense.

If it's not profitable, why are so many investors who have now made a lot of profit from bitcoin and not a few of us have managed to make a living with Bitcoin?
There is no visible (physical) but the same still has tangible results that can provide multiples when your money is invested. If you are aware of the risk of investing, of course all assets that can be invested have the same risk of losing. depending on how confident and clever you are in making a profit.

the actual code works like this.

the initial release of the genesis(first) block. has a value or reward of
binary: 100101010000001011111001000000000
which translates to 5,000,000,000 units (satoshi's) or for easy human GUI display converts to 50btc

the rules are that every 210,000 blocks that amount halves. its done by simply taking a binary bit off the end. and this is a hard rule all nodes follow to ensure all blocks comply to half the reward given per blocks every 210,000 period
binary: 100101010000001011111001000000000
which translates to 2,500,000,000 units (satoshi's) or for easy human GUI display converts to 25btc

as you can tell there were 33 binary bits. meaning 33 halvings until nothing is left. which doing the math totals as being
209,999,999,769,000 satoshis ever rewarded in total by blocks at the end. which converts to just shy of 21m btc

no. i  am asking what exist as bitcoin?? it isn't physical i know. if it is a code or script , are there 21 ml  scripts??

lol. anyone lost their money by investing in bitcoin??? you are in a maze. wht if you bought bitcoin in 2015 ?? what if you bought in 2016??

To spend bitcoin your wallet builds up a template on its own that lists:
The input utxos, the output addresses and how much is sent to each (remainders are paid to miners as a fee) - there's other info too but these are the main bits.

The wallet then signs this transaction using each utxo's address's private keys and makes the transaction valid to be spent/accepted by other nodes.

question first to get your mind prepared for the answer:
if you have $100 in your pocket. does it have to be categorically only in the format of a single $100 bank note. or can it be a measure of a allotment of smaller amounts?

if you had a tonne of gold does it have to be a single brick weighing a complete tonne. or a measure of smaller amounts like kg, ounces, grams that total a tonne?

answer:
in code/value in binary of actual data relayed/stored, whether its stored in the UTXO, mempool, blockchain databases or relayed.. wait for it..  there are no hard data "btc" it is all relayed and stored in units called sats..

it is the software GUI(display) code that then converts it to convenient formatted number for easy reading.

what tadamichi left out of the quoted code in his post. is the part where COIN is just an expression of hard data in blockchains, utxo's, mempools converting into COIN by doing a /100,000,000 of the hard data
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/consensus/amount.h#L14

(i hope tadamichi sees my example of how i, someone that is in full adoption of bitcoin can atleast be open and honest about how bitcoin actually works without having to pander to uptopian stuff, and maybe he takes this as a lesson that trying to slide things under the rug can be misleading for his favoured network)

anyways
none of the unconfiirmed transactions relayed around or put into mempool databases.. nor the blockdata containing confirmed transactions nor the utxo data for easy indexing of the unspents remaining are in btc denominations.

but then again. do people care about a tonne of gold if its not in a format of actually being one single lump of hard gold or do they still call it a tonne of gold if they have 1000 bricks of 1kg of gold or 35274 ounces of gold

we are actually approaching an epoch(point in time) where people are not even able to afford to "buy a whole bitcoin" where people naturally are going to use different terms like sats(single units) and bits(100 units).
much like no one really cares about the "Tonne" when they are buying ounces of gold

btc is not and does not have to be a physical single lump. just like a gold "tonne" does not. its just a measure for easy conversation and display and easy accounting for human eyes and brains to understand using less long numbers.
..
now with that said..
blockchain, utxo, mempool databases and relay data streams all show actual units. (yes measured in sats) but they are actual units. that can be seen. and so if someone has grouped together an allotment of 100,000,000sats then they do indeed own a bitcoin

if you gather together 35274 ounces of gold, then you do indeed own a tonne of gold.

if you have in your left pocket 7 bank notes different denominations of 1x $20 and 6x $5. and in your right pocket you have 500 dimes in your right pocket.. you do indeed have $100 in your pants.... it does not have to be a single $100 bank note to be called $100 in your pocket

You are right that it does not exist but you are not completely right.

Bitcoin does not exists in physical form. In digital form it's some numbers, digital signature. What exists is the value.
Is there a market demand for it? Yes, it does.
How much it is in the current dominant currency? $19,050 (current price)

A car from auction for $300 or a brand new car that will cost $1.5m, both can be purchased using bitcoin. So what is your point?

If your government would not set up a value for the paper money you have then how much would you value the $1?

Of course it doesn't exist. It's just that all this time we have been investing money in a pyramid, which does not bring any profit, and as a result, everyone will also lose their money

The Block subsidy(new Bitcoins being created) started with 50 Bitcoin, every block. This amount halves every 210.000 Blocks, until enough halvings have been done, leaving us with 21.000.000 Bitcoin being created. We passed halving 3, which leaves us with 6.25 Bitcoin created every new Block.

You can verify it yourself and run this on your node, so it always gets enforced.


https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/validation.cpp#L1238-L1249

 acctually what is being  transferd amoung people as bitcoin ?? BTC is that something like script or just a model iike utxo?? how can we exactly say 21 million exist out there?
could anyone give me answres to these questions  plz .