Topic: Is Bitcoin(decentralization) the end for utopia? (Read 275 times)

I think Bitcoin is just a new aspect of life, another layer added to all the rest. It's like a road one can take, but there are plenty of others around as well. Decentralization works, but it doesn't always work, and it doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes people just want a strong authority, someone in charge who'll take care of things, someone to blame if something doesn't go well. With decentralization, people need to be more responsible, ready to take matters in their own hands and push through the bad times without expecting that something will get fixed.

First, I do not see bitcoin as an experiment of whether we can be able manage our finances ourselves, personally for me, beyond every reasonable doubt have been able to prove to myself that I can actually manage my finances my self, and it doesn't matter if I am a Billionaire, I can manage my assets without any help from a central authority like the banks and so on..

But then, living in the world where bitcoin has not fully gained the much desired adoption, it is still very difficult and almost impossible to manage your asset without the need for central authority at some point, this is because, businesses are yet to start accepting bitcoin payments for good and service, and other important things for day to day living, so personally, I think until businesses naturally start accepting bitcoin and crypto payments without being asked, centralization will still remain an important part of our system and us.

When we talk about decentralization, we mean freedom, and sometimes freedom is a good and desirable thing. But if freedom is to the point of losing control, like no leader, no operator...everyone is equal, society will be more chaotic, and then freedom is no longer good. If this forum had no moderators and admins, I don't think it would be maintained today. Decentralization is good in some respects, but this world would be ruined if everything were decentralized.

I think Bitcoin is more future-proof than AI. AI is just a hype right now and when people’ll find out it’s not that useful except in a few domains, they’ll be hugely disappointed by what it can do. We’re very far away from a final form of society and I don’t think we’ll get anywhere close to it in the next few centuries (in fact, we may actually end up destroying ourselves and the planet by then lol). This utopia OP is talking about.. we’ll probably never get to experience it. History plays its role very well here, just check out what happened in the past when they tried experimenting with utopic societies. It didn’t go well, every single time.

While I agree that humans have an inherent capacity to manage their finances, Im not sure it's fair to paint all governments with the same broad brush! There are indeed governments that struggle with financial management, but there are others that excel in it. Admittedly, governments aren't self-sufficient entities, but isnt that the problem of it? Governments are of the people, by the people, and for the people. And isnt their continuation an indicator of a working system, albeit flawed?

The point about governments managing monetary/fiscal activity disrupting economic growth - its a double-edged sword. Yes, government intervention can lead to recessions, but isnt the absence of it equally detrimental, causing economic inequalities and rampant capitalism? The underlying assumption that people understand basic economics but fail to grasp governance and bureaucracy is, in my opinion, somewhat dismissive. Isnt it more a matter of access and education than inherent understanding?

Humans are capable of handling their own finances. We all have this ability. Government are incapable handling its finances.

Government is an entity that isn't self sufficient, and the elected members of that entity have a vested interested in ensuring its survival and continuation. When they begin to control monetary and fiscal activity within its borders, it becomes an unsustainable balancing act where the cards eventually come tumbling down. Whether it be due to overregulation and centralization of authority, (think consolidation of economic matters away from the constituency and into the hands of bureaucrats/government agencies), corruption, money printing, etc, it isn't possible for the government to manage monetary/fiscal activity without disrupting economic growth.

The amount of "man made recessions" I've seen countries go through, with no fault of their own citizens, is palpable. I suppose in a democratic republic, the voters are they themselves to blame. After all, they elected the government body! But I like to give more credit than might be due because while people understand basic economics, they don't understand governance and bureaucracy.

Bitcoin is just a decentralized currency, it's a huge change in financial sector, but not the final form of humanity.

Currently people are worried of AI will replace few or many human jobs, the future speculation robots might replace human, but still it's not the final form of humanity.

You can't expect or hope everything should be decentralized for human good, just like this forum it's less decentralized since there's moderators able to delete your post and the administrator know everything behind of each user password, email etc.

Humans are capable of handling their own money in their own hands but the governments won't like to give them this liberty and they want to keep the financial system centralized so that the people are always dependent on the government and governments can always manipulate and take advantage of the citizens.

Even when you talk about Bitcoin, there are many central wallets that will attract us to keep our funds save and give us a password to access our money while the real key is the seed phrase. 

What do you mean by "the final form or humanity"? The human civilization is always evolving, there's nothing final here. Finance is evolving as well. The people used gold and silver coins centuries ago. They moved from gold coins to paper money, that were backed by gold. Later on, they moved to fiat money(not backed by anything). I guess that the next step would be moving towards digital currencies.
There will be a constant battle between centralized financial infrastructures(banks, CBDCs) and decentralized financial structures(blockchains, crypto). I don't think that the governments and the central banks would just surrender and adopt decentralized technologies.

I don't think so, bitcoin is just an step for economic freedom, but is is just a small step in the humanity's evolution.
I think there is important to find a way to avoid the scenario where someone has control of the 51% of the network, with that it would be perfect.
Yes they can, but is a fight against all the marketing bombs we get all time in the streets, tv and the internet.
No, I don't think bitcoin is an experiment to prove that, it's a tool to manage our own financials, without a third party like a bank or a gov.

I think we need more than just BTC to try out an utopic scenario for society. BTC is only a part of it, it’s just finance. And the community is quite split for now, there are people who want to be independent and people who prefer relying on a third party for help.

But I personally think this comes from a much deeper cause. We haven’t been taught how to be independent in schools. Instead, we’ve been taught we need banks and a corporate job if we want a good life. So before we attempt an utopic scenario, I think we first need to sort that out and educate the young that independent is better because you have more control.

Until we do this, it’s gonna be hard to convince everyone (or at least the majority) that it’s better to be your own boss. It’s probably because it’s more comfortable too and the much quicker option of the two with the fastest results, both positive and negative. We’re still far away from a change of poles imo.

Right now Bitcoin is not even a final form of money, it's just a tiny alternative system that yet has to prove to billions of people that it's better than banks. Even if it will manage to do that, it would still be just a payment system and not a basis of the whole human civilization.

IMHO BTC is not a big social experiment, since not so much people use it these days. Its actually something like "testnet" now. Also, BTC and alts are strongly dependent on fiat to crypto exchange facilities, since nearly none of the business initiatives accept payments directly in BTC.

Bitcoin is not the final form for humanity, but a catalyst for change and innovation. Decentralization is not an end goal, but a means to achieve more freedom, transparency and efficiency.

exactly, like seriously 😒😳, I don't get it. But anyway,  I tried to get a better sense of understanding from your questions,  @OP.

@OP, first I want you to know that Bitcoin was not the first cryptocurrency, and ever since Bitcoin making success, there have been some cryptocurrencies that tried to mimic Bitcoin, but their success is still tarrying (and likely will not succeed). Also, even some old coins like Bitcoin Cash and LTC and nonsense BSV have not been able to beat Bitcoin, so, as far as crypto is concerned, I still don't believe there could be any other coin that could suppass Bitcoin, so, yeah, Bitcoin could be the only decentralized asset or currency that humans can live with (or may not in the century to come, I can't tell the future).

---

not all, but by some, I guess.


It's not an experiment to show anything, but whatever... (bla bla bla), people have a choice. What do you choose? freedom or rules on your finances.

Cheers 🥂, Dr.Bitcoin_Strange 👺👺

It's more than just controlling your Bitcoin/assets. It's about decentralization of power to avoid abuse.
The Bitcoin Model is actually necessary for the survival of  humanity and proper functioning of human society. The model exists in nature, for example the human cells. They are more like billions of little humans, each having  a copy of the "Blockchain" in form of DNA for checking and balancing the decisions other cells make for the body/system. They are quite similar when compared with the Bitcoin system. The humans/nodes are more like cells having copies of the Blockchain to check and balance the activities of others within the Bitcoin system. The Blockchain is record of information chained vertically to one another similar to the DNA. Get a picture of a DNA and compare it with the Blockchain and you may be amazed. Every cell within the body has a copy of the DNA just like every node/human within the Bitcoin system should a copy of the Blockchain. That's how things are supposed to be in nature and human society. The current centralized model of the Fiat system is artificial and dangerous/evil. Nature seems to value decentralization especially in an imperfect world. It's dangerous to hand over your power, rights, assets, etc to centralized power in such a world. Unfortunately, the world currently does it because it's in deep sleep, dead or enslaved.

You're underestimating human history, bitcoin is just a footnote in that history if we are talking in the grand scale of things, I know that you want to sound profound but I'm telling you, it's not in any way makes you, not to mention it's stupid.
The only social model that I can think of is anarchy and not many people are prepared for that. I might be wrong about thatt though, feel free to correct me with what you mean by social model and what examples you have.
Another stupid question, of course they can didn't we create banks and didn't we have financial planners? The economy would be worse if there's no one who knows how to manage finances, no billionaires and millionaires or cocksuckers in Wall Street.
Far fetch theory if not crazy overall, you should've read Satoshi's whitepaper, I think it's available online, that's going to answer your question as to why Satoshi created bitcoin.

Not sure what's the motto of your statements! But Bitcoin is the first successful implementation of decentralized architecture in the financial world. Prior to Bitcoin, everything was centrally controlled. Whatever tokens you are seeing in the market today, are all based on the idea of bitcoin. So I am not sure what other steps to be taken really!

Also, Bitcoin is not here to prove anything to anyone. It has just given the power in the hands of common people which wasn't there earlier. It's a hard reality and nothing sort of an Utopia. So if you are referring to the end of an Utopia, I bloody don't know what you are talking about!

If I understand your question correctly, you wonder if the idea of Bitcoin may be doomed to fail, because humanity could continue to require centralized authorities.
I don't think that's the case. There is still a chance, decentralized solutions will fail. The reason being, those in control are not willing to give up their power.
The next years and decades will be full of turmoil, old-power-structures vs new-freedom-seeking individuals. Who will prevail I don't know. But one thing is for sure, we do not require central authority, especially in regards of sound money. Maybe there will be a long phase of transition, where some central authorities are inevitable. But at some point of technological and educational development they will become obsolete. Although Bitcoin's technology may be a century too early for that, yes.

No, Bitcoin isn't the final form of decentralization for humans because no one knows that what the future holds for humans. The things will be very different from today in coming decades and the technology may reach very high heights in future. Although, Bitcoin is the best form of decentralization till date but considering it the final form won't be justice because who knows that in coming era there will be more and more inventions that could take decentralization to another level.

The Bitcoin is truly a savior for the lover of decentralization and its the king of the crypto-currencies, and after its creation the many new decentralized projects started appearing. In the world of decentralized finances there isn't a competitor of Bitcoin and there won't be one in coming years, but the decentralized technology is not limited to finances only and there have been other decentralized technologies like decentralized VPN's and Tor. Those things are at another level of providing decentralization and may help you to browse internet anonymously without sharing your personal IP address.

It sounds cool to get funds out of the control of the government, Bitcoin makes this possible and many people are in support, but the majority of people are still behaving like a zombie when they heard about Bitcoin and its capability, they want the government to tell them to get involve or not.

Many people know what advantages comes from having Bitcoin as their store of value, they don't want to get involved still, because the government said its bad and unsafe, I hope this changes as time went by.

Again, not really sure why we equate bitcoin with humanity and all of it's problem and what not. As much as we think that it will take over the world, no, not going to happen. We still have the central banks and fiat like the USD which will still be here.

Crypto and bitcoin is just another alternative. And as we can see, governments are trying to curb it out as early as this year. When bitcoin is still in it's infancy (10+ years of existence). Of course we can used it to make profits and maybe live a good life, but that's it though.

Final form in terms of digital currency and technology development or what? If that's where you're heading to, we only have bitcoin today and don't know or see any other advanced technology outside the use of digital currency with blockchain technology for now, but maybe in generations to come, something more different may come but for now we have bitcoin to embrace for the present and future base on what we are having.


Anything you could want to understand more about in this aspect has to be with bitcoin, i have to advise you to learn about bitcoin and understand it first.


Bitcoin has gone beyond the imagination of being an experimental digital currency, it's real, valid and acceptable, it's a legal means of making payments, transactions, and also serves as legal tender where it has been adopted for such use, bitcoin is a digital currency.

No, Bitcoin is just a history of humanity, humanity will experience and pass the era of Bitcoin when it found a better form of technology.  The world is everchanging, just when people thought that going to space is impossible, your thought of Bitcoin as the final for for humanity is answerable by no.


And it will be stay as a dream until people don't need government to centralized all things.


Humans are capable of learning, there are already people who are capable of managing their finances.  There are even lectures and books and how to do that.  I do not know why you think human are incapable of such, the world is to huge, we have to look out of our window in order to see some of them better yet to explore the vastness of the world.


I do not know what are you trying to convey here, there are people who offer to manage other people's belongings so it means people are capable it is that many are too lazy to do or learn it.

I don't know what you've smoked before coming up with this question but don't do it again!
If that is the best, the pinnacle of what we humanity can ever think of then we're done for as a species!


Not by all and decentralization doesn't work in everything, just look around you and see if you would love to have decentralized everything, start with every cop doing independently his job, every bus driver having his own schedule and deciding his own route, every school teaching whatever they want, every hospital deciding on its own treatments with no regulation, very street having its own mayor, and you could go on like this indefinitely. It will not be a miracle it will be chaos and you can see it happening everywhere it has been tried.


There are just 6 million addresses with a balance of over $1000, let's go way lower,  $100, that would be 16 million at maximum, probably way less by at least 1/5 since a lot of users have funds in multiple addresses.
So, we either agree that less than 0.1% of the world owns Bitcoin, or....that the majority still hold their coins on centralized platforms.

So many bitcoiners all around the world are managing their finances easily with BTC, all you need to do is use a self custody wallet, and if you control your keys, you control and manage your funds.

BTC is not an experiment, maybe it was when it was newly created, but now it is clearly the only true decentralized, permissionless and censorship resistant currency that people can use with zero need of a central authority.

The world is revolving, decades ago, who ever thought that something like Bitcoin could penetrate the mainstream of the financial world the way it did? A lot of revolution has taken place in the financial system from the inception of trades and settlements, the decentralized system might still not be the end. Government are still issues here, it might not take too long for them to take their final stance on this.

And yes, I believe the world is still experiencing, more developments are still yet to come.

Is Bitcoin the final form for humanity?
Decentralization has long been dreamed by all different social models, is there another step to be taken?
Can humanity (humans) learn to hang on and manage their finances?
Or is Bitcoin an experiment to show that we're not capable of managing our own belongings and do require central authority?