Is Chia Really Decentralized or just a Myth?

tavr

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Quote from: iv4n on October 16, 2021, 03:16:01 PM

He probably doesn't know the answer to that question... I tried to download Chia wallet and to mine Chisa with my 1 TB external hard disk... what mistake was that!

You can try Achi.
I see people say, it is more advance, without any huge prefarm and secure fork.

iv4n

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Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 02:47:47 PM

Quote from: devil2man on October 16, 2021, 02:07:39 PM

in reality i don't know if the chia blockchain is decentralized and the percentage of preminated coins is high what i know for sure and that i really care and that it is the best current opportunity to mine with low energy consumption and without buying expensive gpu, keeping only hard disk with large storage capacity turned on

do you know how many TB of disks you need to farm 1 chia and you need in the future more disks and hard disks appear out of nowhere, but produced by high energy consumption. Wink

He probably doesn't know the answer to that question... I tried to download Chia wallet and to mine Chisa with my 1 TB external hard disk... what mistake was that! Looks like now you need at least 100 TB to do anything at all, and that isn't cheap for sure! As you say Tavr hard disks and energy doesn't come out from anywhere.

I think Chia is a myth, but it's only me! Some others like it... I guess people who wish to get more involved should do their own research and to make their own decision about Chia and is it worth joining or not!

tavr

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Quote from: devil2man on October 16, 2021, 02:07:39 PM

in reality i don't know if the chia blockchain is decentralized and the percentage of preminated coins is high what i know for sure and that i really care and that it is the best current opportunity to mine with low energy consumption and without buying expensive gpu, keeping only hard disk with large storage capacity turned on

do you know how many TB of disks you need to farm 1 chia and you need in the future more disks and hard disks appear out of nowhere, but produced by high energy consumption. Wink

devil2man

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in reality i don't know if the chia blockchain is decentralized and the percentage of preminated coins is high what i know for sure and that i really care and that it is the best current opportunity to mine with low energy consumption and without buying expensive gpu, keeping only hard disk with large storage capacity turned on

tavr

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Quote from: FairUser on October 16, 2021, 12:23:10 PM

And Chia network has just launched the mainnet, so there is still a long time for Chia network to build and develop its ecosystem.

There are bunches of fully centralized eco networks (Example: see my post above), that are not corporate, didn't do huge pre-farm/pre-mine
The main issue with the Chia - founders, just would like to make money(and it is normal for their business) - otherwise why do they need to accumulate in their hands 21m of coins (huge amount compared to total supply)-
but also compare themselves with bitcoin to attract more people. See first post here.

tavr

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Quote from: FairUser on October 16, 2021, 12:23:10 PM

Perhaps the problems that have happened in this market in recent times have caused a certain number of people to have a special interest in CHIA.

About what problems are you talking?

FairUser

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Perhaps the problems that have happened in this market in recent times have caused a certain number of people to have a special interest in CHIA.
But in my opinion it will be a bright spot given the problems it is showing in this market. Obviously when Elon talks about environmental protection, there is no crypto project that proves that they are doing well except CHIA.
And Chia network has just launched the mainnet, so there is still a long time for Chia network to build and develop its ecosystem.

Teknisi88

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I don't really know about the Chia project.
But I don't really like people who are dishonest. Lies are very disgusting things and are the image of a coward.

tavr

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Quote from: SquirrelJulietGarden on October 16, 2021, 10:57:33 AM

After a few years, CEO will have less weight on total supply of that coin

Not really, you could always calculate total supply, and it seems that the value of chia would not be dictated by the market, but rather a small group of people in chia board of owners/directors.

SquirrelJulietGarden

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on October 16, 2021, 10:05:16 AM

I've checked distribution and its 64 XCH per 10 minutes = 9 216 per day = 3 363 840 per year while current circulating supply is equal to 1,582,223.00 XCH. So its exactly how i said. After 3 years circulating supply will go up to 11.5 mln and CEOs 1 mln coins will be less than 10% of supply. 5% after 6 years.

Satoshis 1 mln BTC is more than 5% of current supply. Is BTC not decentralized? 12 years ago satoshi also had majority of BTCs

Problems with Chia is miners struggle to plot and many CHIA miners see their lives collapsed because of CHIA. They can not receive good mining rewards and price crashed too much.

I see CHIA as one of coins I will follow but it won't be a coin I will invest in this time. Chia and previously Burst are same type but Burst was forgotten before the appearance of CHIA on the market.

You have a good analytics about supply of CHIA's CEO or satoshi. After a few years, CEO will have less weight on total supply of that coin. It is not a serious problem and the issue is how CHIA can be used in reality, with good adoption.

tavr

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on October 16, 2021, 10:25:49 AM

Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 10:19:19 AM

As noted in Business Whitepaper, they started mainnet with 21 million XCH pre-farmed

Oh ... this changes everything. Looks like even after 7 years they will still have majority of coins.

If I would like farming, I would better look to fully decentralized fork with practically no pre-farming, example: Achi
It seems, that Achi has right decentralization (necessary and sufficient), not like chia - in wording it is decentralized, but if some owns majority of coins - it just necessary for decentralization, but not sufficient.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 10:19:19 AM

As noted in Business Whitepaper, they started mainnet with 21 million XCH pre-farmed

Oh ... this changes everything. Looks like even after 7 years they will still have majority of coins. Looks like they somehow came up to conclusion that it is fair to reward team with coins that whole network needs 7 years to mine. RIP investors. But still its only a native token distribution. Whole chain is backed by proof of storage not proof of stake. So chain may be decentralized while be super unattractive as investment asset (centralization of supply).

Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 10:22:46 AM

Satoshi - we don't know who he is or was - corporate, person, group of persons, etc
Chia - we know who stays under, fully corporate coin

It does not matter for decentralization if someone who hold majority of coins is anonymous or not. Regardless of the fact if we are talking about POW, POS, POP, POstorage

tavr

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on October 16, 2021, 10:05:16 AM

Satoshis 1 mln BTC is more than 5% of current supply. Is BTC not decentralized? 12 years ago satoshi also had majority of BTCs

Satoshi - we don't know who he is or was - corporate, person, group of persons, etc
Chia - we know who stays under, fully corporate coin

tavr

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on October 16, 2021, 10:05:16 AM

Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 10:00:45 AM

How it could be, that a cryptocurrency where one person holds 95% of coins can be decentralized?

Because its not proof of stake. Its proof of storage. So chain may be super decentralized and offer everything you need while distribution of native token may not be decentralized.

I've checked distribution and its 64 XCH per 10 minutes = 9 216 per day = 3 363 840 per year while current circulating supply is equal to 1,582,223.00 XCH. So its exactly how i said. After 3 years circulating supply will go up to 11.5 mln and CEOs 1 mln coins will be less than 10% of supply. 5% after 6 years.

Satoshis 1 mln BTC is more than 5% of current supply. Is BTC not decentralized? 12 years ago satoshi also had majority of BTCs

As noted in Business Whitepaper, they started mainnet with 21 million XCH pre-farmed

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 10:00:45 AM

How it could be, that a cryptocurrency where one person holds 95% of coins can be decentralized?

Because its not proof of stake. Its proof of storage. So chain may be super decentralized and offer everything you need while distribution of native token may not be decentralized.

I've checked distribution and its 64 XCH per 10 minutes = 9 216 per day = 3 363 840 per year while current circulating supply is equal to 1,582,223.00 XCH. So its exactly how i said. After 3 years circulating supply will go up to 11.5 mln and CEOs 1 mln coins will be less than 10% of supply. 5% after 6 years.

Satoshis 1 mln BTC is more than 5% of current supply. Is BTC not decentralized? 12 years ago satoshi also had majority of BTCs

tavr

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on October 16, 2021, 09:57:24 AM

Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 09:33:16 AM

yep, wondering, why they told us "to fix the centralization problems" and from the other hands - left 95% of all coins in their pockets?
Even bitcoin didn't do that

Its a huge difference between decentralization of chain and equal distribution of native token. Chia has interesting thing to offer. Instead of 1 cpu = 1 vote (POW) 1 $ = 1 vote (POS) its 1 storage unit = 1 vote and in fact it may offer different type of decentralization. I don't know how they are doing right now because last time i heard about them was before launch.

But back to 95% premine. Its worth to check how big inflation there is. Its possible that this 95% of supply will drop to 20% after 2-3 years and to 10% after 10 years. Its worth to say that in almost every ICO ETH token team have 100% of supply at the beginning and sell xx% during ICO.

How it could be, that a cryptocurrency where one person holds 95% of coins can be decentralized?

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 09:33:16 AM

yep, wondering, why they told us "to fix the centralization problems" and from the other hands - left 95% of all coins in their pockets?
Even bitcoin didn't do that

Its a huge difference between decentralization of chain and equal distribution of native token. Chia has interesting thing to offer. Instead of 1 cpu = 1 vote (POW) 1 $ = 1 vote (POS) its 1 storage unit = 1 vote and in fact it may offer different type of decentralization. I don't know how they are doing right now because last time i heard about them was before launch.

But back to 95% premine. Its worth to check how big inflation there is. Its possible that this 95% of supply will drop to 20% after 2-3 years and to 10% after 10 years. Its worth to say that in almost every ICO ETH token team have 100% of supply at the beginning and sell xx% during ICO.

tavr

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yep, wondering, why they told us "to fix the centralization problems" and from the other hands - left 95% of all coins in their pockets?
Even bitcoin didn't do that

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Quote from: tavr on October 16, 2021, 09:13:25 AM

Bram Cohen was quoted explaining his Chia project to investors in November 2017:"The idea is to make a better bitcoin, to fix the centralization problems".https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/08/chia-network-cryptocurrency/

But in reality he did 95% Prefarm

Source

From that statement, he owns of 95% of coins and for community left only 5%.
It seems, it is just another corporate cryptocurrency under the hood of folk coin and words are at odds with deeds.
Am I painting the devil blacker than he is ?!

No need to paint a darker devil and just get rid of that worry in your heart, because whatever new cryptocurrencies will be built for the future by very smart people, they will also not be able to compete with old coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum, because both old and new investors are still very interested in Bitcoin and Ethereum even though they sometimes try to glance at the others.

tavr

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Bram Cohen was quoted explaining his Chia project to investors in November 2017:"The idea is to make a better bitcoin, to fix the centralization problems".https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/08/chia-network-cryptocurrency/

But in reality he did 95% Prefarm

Source

From that statement, he owns of 95% of coins and for community left only 5%.
It seems, it is just another corporate cryptocurrency under the hood of folk coin and words are at odds with deeds.
Am I painting the devil blacker than he is ?!

Topic: Is Chia Really Decentralized or just a Myth? (Read 122 times)