Is China silently conquering Africa?

bryant.coleman

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China Inc. moves factory floor to Africa

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-inc-moves-factory-floor-to-africa-2014-05-14-20485725

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Faced with rising labor costs at home and negative perceptions about their employment practices in Africa, Chinese companies are setting up new factories on the continent and hiring more Africans. The companies efforts will test whether the masters of low-cost manufacturing can be as productive in Africa as they are in China.

Something that the Europeans and the Americans have yet to learn. Angry

crocko

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'All that glitters is not gold'

Quote from: byt411 on May 09, 2014, 12:29:43 PM

Quote from: crocko on May 08, 2014, 05:49:56 PM

This is a very good question and the answer is YES.

And China is doing the same in the Europe: look at Portugal for example, they managed to by-pass the crisis using Chinese money.

China looks to overwhelm economically the entire planet.
The Islam try to do the same but using the demographic weapon: look how many of them are in each European country.

Wrong. Name a country where there isn't a Chinese person.

Are you seriously understand English ?
Your logic seems to have serious flaws. Cool

byt411

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Quote from: dogeunion on May 11, 2014, 10:38:05 AM

China help Africa in national development, and, China to these countries, silently, drugs, food aid highway, factories and so on, I believe that to Africa,China do better than USA.

What you are saying makes no sense at all... And aiding with food and highways doesn't require it being silent.

dogeunion

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China help Africa in national development, and, China to these countries, silently, drugs, food aid highway, factories and so on, I believe that to Africa,China do better than USA.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: dwma on May 10, 2014, 07:21:03 PM

China gets what it wants by infinite bribing and a large state to back it up.

Well.. that is pretty much true with all the companies operating in the third world, be it from China or from the EU. Just look at the Angolan petroleum sector in the 1990s. How did the European oil companies managed to get all the contracts for themselves? From the start of this century onward, the Chinese were able to offer more bribes than the Europeans and they captured the sector.

dwma

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China gets what it wants by infinite bribing and a large state to back it up. Smaller capitalist companies find it very hard to compete with this. China has a benevolent dictatorship which acts unilaterally. The US is pretty much the complete opposite.

The quality of life in these 2 countries is going to start really evening out in the coming decades.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: practicaldreamer on May 09, 2014, 12:58:37 PM

China is silently conquering the UK - let alone Africa.

The Dalian Wanda Group are the county's largest holder of property - and the North Sea is being bought up as we speak by China.

Makes a change from the US I suppose Wink

Talking about the properties in the UK, the percentage of them owned by the Chinese is not that high. The proportion of properties owned by the Arabs and Russians might be more than that of the Chinese.

practicaldreamer

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China is silently conquering the UK - let alone Africa.

The Dalian Wanda Group are the county's largest holder of property - and the North Sea is being bought up as we speak by China.

Makes a change from the US I suppose Wink

byt411

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 09, 2014, 12:33:18 PM

Quote from: TrailingComet on May 09, 2014, 03:06:19 AM

To conquer the continent, they need to take charge of education and healthcare where India and some western powers have more influence presently

Do you think that the healthcare and education sector in Africa is dominated by the Indians? The Indian presence is limited to a few countries, such as Kenya and Ethiopia. The Chinese are replacing them everywhere else.

Exactly. Western countries don't do anything, at least the government doesn't. They are mostly charities, and they can't do that much, since they don't have as much fund as China does.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: TrailingComet on May 09, 2014, 03:06:19 AM

To conquer the continent, they need to take charge of education and healthcare where India and some western powers have more influence presently

Do you think that the healthcare and education sector in Africa is dominated by the Indians? The Indian presence is limited to a few countries, such as Kenya and Ethiopia. The Chinese are replacing them everywhere else.

byt411

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Quote from: crocko on May 08, 2014, 05:49:56 PM

This is a very good question and the answer is YES.

And China is doing the same in the Europe: look at Portugal for example, they managed to by-pass the crisis using Chinese money.

China looks to overwhelm economically the entire planet.
The Islam try to do the same but using the demographic weapon: look how many of them are in each European country.

Wrong. Name a country where there isn't a Chinese person.

TrailingComet

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Certainly the leading power in Africa today
But leverage concentrated in resources and energy sectors
To conquer the continent, they need to take charge of education and healthcare where India and some western powers have more influence presently

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: show_off on May 08, 2014, 10:32:30 PM

In fact, China in third world countries are not welcome.

Chinese investment is present in a lot of the third world countries, and actually the latter is competing with each other to get the Chinese to their nations. The Chinese - third world relationship is a mutually benefiting one, unlike the relations which the 3rd world have with the EU and the US.

u9y42

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Quote from: crocko on May 08, 2014, 05:49:56 PM

This is a very good question and the answer is YES.

And China is doing the same in the Europe: look at Portugal for example, they managed to by-pass the crisis using Chinese money.

China looks to overwhelm economically the entire planet.
The Islam try to do the same but using the demographic weapon: look how many of them are in each European country.

I'm not so sure Portugal managed to by-pass the crisis at all, Chinese investment or not; I mean, extra investment certainly helps, but the country still looks to me to be pretty much "in the crisis".

Quote from: show_off on May 08, 2014, 10:32:30 PM

In fact, China in third world countries are not welcome.

Care to provide sources / more information?

show_off

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In fact, China in third world countries are not welcome.

crocko

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'All that glitters is not gold'

This is a very good question and the answer is YES.

And China is doing the same in the Europe: look at Portugal for example, they managed to by-pass the crisis using Chinese money.

China looks to overwhelm economically the entire planet.
The Islam try to do the same but using the demographic weapon: look how many of them are in each European country.

byt411

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 08, 2014, 12:10:55 PM

Quote from: byt411 on May 08, 2014, 11:56:30 AM

That is correct. However, China doesn't seem that interested in countries near the equator or deserts, they seem to be befriending countries near the coast, or in the south.

Well.. that is only partially true. I agree that the Southern African nations such as Angola are seeing massive Chinese investments. At the same time, equatorial African nations such as Uganda and Cameron are also witnessing Chinese activity on a large scale. (Check the map).

OK. My statement was wrong, China doesn't seem to be that interested in countries near the equator or deserts for food. Of course they are interested in resources, That's a really important thing, since China does not have that much oil and gas.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: byt411 on May 08, 2014, 11:56:30 AM

That is correct. However, China doesn't seem that interested in countries near the equator or deserts, they seem to be befriending countries near the coast, or in the south.

Well.. that is only partially true. I agree that the Southern African nations such as Angola are seeing massive Chinese investments. At the same time, equatorial African nations such as Uganda and Cameron are also witnessing Chinese activity on a large scale. (Check the map).

byt411

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 07, 2014, 11:09:01 PM

Quote from: Icardi09 on May 07, 2014, 03:46:27 PM

i have read some articles months ago
africa is the future of world food reserves
because china has the biggest world population and need food for their citizen
so they had to secure the African farmland for their future
imo

No.. by area wise, the amount of farmland available in Africa is very less, when compared with that available in Russia, Ukraine, China, India or Canada. That is because a large part of Africa is covered with deserts and forests. And any extensive agricultural programs might need gigantic irrigation schemes, which is not possible currently as there is simply not enough water.

That is correct. However, China doesn't seem that interested in countries near the equator or deserts, they seem to be befriending countries near the coast, or in the south.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Icardi09 on May 07, 2014, 03:46:27 PM

i have read some articles months ago
africa is the future of world food reserves
because china has the biggest world population and need food for their citizen
so they had to secure the African farmland for their future
imo

No.. by area wise, the amount of farmland available in Africa is very less, when compared with that available in Russia, Ukraine, China, India or Canada. That is because a large part of Africa is covered with deserts and forests. And any extensive agricultural programs might need gigantic irrigation schemes, which is not possible currently as there is simply not enough water.

byt411

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Quote from: beetcoin on May 07, 2014, 04:40:05 PM

Quote from: byt411 on May 07, 2014, 03:37:10 PM

Quote from: beetcoin on May 07, 2014, 03:19:01 PM

Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies that said Africa needs some economic growth since they have a lot of issues there so improving their standard of living through economics is one way to do that.

even if china wanted to militarily conquer countries, i don't think the U.S. would let it go that easily - we are #1 after all. it's kind of like when vietnam invaded cambodia, and china didn't want any of that... so they laid the hammer down.

Well, you certainly cannot read.

Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies.

And even if China does, what the heck has the US got to do with it? Stop trying to be the world police, seriously. They can only send out troops through the UN.

maybe it would be easier to comprehend/read if you knew how to use some punctuation. also, that's just an ad hominem rebuttal.

I can perfectly punctuate, and I did not write that. That was written by EternalWingsofGod.
So you can't read, lol.
And by the way, look at the USA, China and Vietnam are now arguing, since Vietnam accused China of invading its waters to find oil, and the US is saying China shouldn't do that? World police.

beetcoin

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Quote from: byt411 on May 07, 2014, 03:37:10 PM

Quote from: beetcoin on May 07, 2014, 03:19:01 PM

Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies that said Africa needs some economic growth since they have a lot of issues there so improving their standard of living through economics is one way to do that.

even if china wanted to militarily conquer countries, i don't think the U.S. would let it go that easily - we are #1 after all. it's kind of like when vietnam invaded cambodia, and china didn't want any of that... so they laid the hammer down.

Well, you certainly cannot read.

Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies.

And even if China does, what the heck has the US got to do with it? Stop trying to be the world police, seriously. They can only send out troops through the UN.

maybe it would be easier to comprehend/read if you knew how to use some punctuation. also, that's just an ad hominem rebuttal.

byt411

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Quote from: Icardi09 on May 07, 2014, 03:46:27 PM

i have read some articles months ago
africa is the future of world food reserves
because china has the biggest world population and need food for their citizen
so they had to secure the African farmland for their future
imo

China has more than 20% of the world's population, but less than 7% of its farmland, so China, apart from resources such as Gold and Oil, they also want land to grow timber and food in Africa.

Icardi09

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i have read some articles months ago
africa is the future of world food reserves
because china has the biggest world population and need food for their citizen
so they had to secure the African farmland for their future
imo

byt411

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 07, 2014, 03:40:12 PM

Quote from: byt411 on May 07, 2014, 03:37:10 PM

And even if China does, what the heck has the US got to do with it? Stop trying to be the world police, seriously. They can only send out troops through the UN.

Everyone is getting tired of the world police. Soon there won't be any world police. I think a combined force of China, Russia and Iran will take down the US and leave the world in peace.

The US is very intelligent. Very. They just use stupid cycles to sustain the country, and it will easily fall if we break the cycle.
One of the easiest ways is by simply stop buying US national debt and bonds. That will destroy the whole economy, it's actually a huge ponzi.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: byt411 on May 07, 2014, 03:37:10 PM

And even if China does, what the heck has the US got to do with it? Stop trying to be the world police, seriously. They can only send out troops through the UN.

Everyone is getting tired of the world police. Soon there won't be any world police. I think a combined force of China, Russia and Iran will take down the US and leave the world in peace.

byt411

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Quote from: beetcoin on May 07, 2014, 03:19:01 PM

Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies that said Africa needs some economic growth since they have a lot of issues there so improving their standard of living through economics is one way to do that.

even if china wanted to militarily conquer countries, i don't think the U.S. would let it go that easily - we are #1 after all. it's kind of like when vietnam invaded cambodia, and china didn't want any of that... so they laid the hammer down.

Well, you certainly cannot read.

Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies.

And even if China does, what the heck has the US got to do with it? Stop trying to be the world police, seriously. They can only send out troops through the UN.

beetcoin

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Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies that said Africa needs some economic growth since they have a lot of issues there so improving their standard of living through economics is one way to do that.

even if china wanted to militarily conquer countries, i don't think the U.S. would let it go that easily - we are #1 after all. it's kind of like when vietnam invaded cambodia, and china didn't want any of that... so they laid the hammer down.

bryant.coleman

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Africa: Premier Li Keqiang in Africa - the Importance of Angola for China

http://allafrica.com/stories/201405070442.html

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The trade figures speak for themselves: in 2009, China overtook the United States as Africa's biggest trading partner, and some 2,500 Chinese firms operate on the continent. Bilateral trade between China and African countries reached $210 billion in 2013 and Angola was also for China the second largest source of imported oil after Saudi Arabia.

Quote

Angola aside, these figures hide though that Africa accounts for only 5 per cent ($198.4 billion) of China's global trade ($3.867 trillion) and $3 billion less than 4 per cent of foreign direct investment (FDI) globally in 2012 ($77.2 billion). Africa remains a low priority for Chinese policy makers currently, but not so for African governments who keenly seek Chinese trade and investment. China also finds that its actions in Africa have attracted a disproportionate level of international attention.

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China and the US are both developing extensive portfolios of client states. Whilst the Americans focus on controlling Muslim countries for the Middle East's oil using both economic and military might, China focuses on adding developing countries to its portfolio using economic might alone.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: EternalWingsofGod on May 07, 2014, 02:53:51 AM

The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies that said Africa needs some economic growth since they have a lot of issues there so improving their standard of living through economics is one way to do that.

The local population is also benefiting from this. So I'll support them. I still remember during the 1980s and 1990s how the French government triggered civil wars in Angola, Gabon and Congo, so that they could control the oil rigs. None of the locals benefited back then.

byt411

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 06, 2014, 11:30:53 PM

Quote from: byt411 on May 06, 2014, 02:14:51 PM

I assure you, the economy is not bad at all, it is improving very well.
The biggest problem in China is education, morals and common sense.

My parents are from Hong Kong, (a ex-british colony part of China, which is considered a "city", and does not have to follow chinese rules and governs itself) and seeing what we call "mainland" tourists is just horrifying. Apparently taking a dump on the floor at a 60-floor shopping center is perfectly acceptable, and when security is called, they try to bribe them (WTF?) and if not, just punch them in their face.

Yuck! The funny things is that if they do something like that in the mainland, they will be thrown behind bars. No wonder, I heard a few days ago from Singapore that house owners don't want to rent out their apartments to migrants from the mainland China.

The most disgusting thing is that there must be at least 500 toilets in the place. Their excuse was that they couldn't find them.

EternalWingsofGod

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The Chinese way is to conquer economically instead of with armies that said Africa needs some economic growth since they have a lot of issues there so improving their standard of living through economics is one way to do that.

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Quote from: u9y42 on May 07, 2014, 01:22:18 AM

Quote from: BasilHawkins on May 06, 2014, 11:51:26 PM

The real enemy of the USA is China, They have the ambition to conquer the world since the beginning. I would prefer to be ruled by an american than by a greedy chinese. Chinese lust for wealth has no end. Five to ten years from now china will have bigger economy than USA. China military budget will become bigger while USA will become smaller in proportion to time.

I think you could replace US with China in there and it would still be true; except for the "real enemy" part, which I don't think anyone really believes in. Either way, except for maybe a few exceptions, every country is as ambitious as it "thinks" it can get away with.

I agree. Personally I don't have anything agents Chinese people, but the Chinese government is to oppressive (much more then the USA in my opinion). I hope that some day that will change.

u9y42

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Quote from: BasilHawkins on May 06, 2014, 11:51:26 PM

The real enemy of the USA is China, They have the ambition to conquer the world since the beginning. I would prefer to be ruled by an american than by a greedy chinese. Chinese lust for wealth has no end. Five to ten years from now china will have bigger economy than USA. China military budget will become bigger while USA will become smaller in proportion to time.

I think you could replace US with China in there and it would still be true; except for the "real enemy" part, which I don't think anyone really believes in. Either way, except for maybe a few exceptions, every country is as ambitious as it "thinks" it can get away with.

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The real enemy of the USA is China, They have the ambition to conquer the world since the beginning. I would prefer to be ruled by an american than by a greedy chinese. Chinese lust for wealth has no end. Five to ten years from now china will have bigger economy than USA. China military budget will become bigger while USA will become smaller in proportion to time.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: byt411 on May 06, 2014, 02:14:51 PM

I assure you, the economy is not bad at all, it is improving very well.
The biggest problem in China is education, morals and common sense.

My parents are from Hong Kong, (a ex-british colony part of China, which is considered a "city", and does not have to follow chinese rules and governs itself) and seeing what we call "mainland" tourists is just horrifying. Apparently taking a dump on the floor at a 60-floor shopping center is perfectly acceptable, and when security is called, they try to bribe them (WTF?) and if not, just punch them in their face.

Yuck! The funny things is that if they do something like that in the mainland, they will be thrown behind bars. No wonder, I heard a few days ago from Singapore that house owners don't want to rent out their apartments to migrants from the mainland China.

byt411

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Quote from: sana8410 on May 06, 2014, 02:23:13 PM

Quote from: Snorek on May 06, 2014, 01:20:10 PM

Is China silently conquering Africa?
I would changed that title for this one:
Is China silently conquering the World?

If You look at Your phone or a battery You would probably find a sign saying that it was made in China. Clothes, shoes, Your PC also (at lest some parts) are made in China. Now that may seem like nothing bad but the more things are produced in China the fewer jobs there will be in Europe or USA.

You can say that again!!You won't find just clothes and electronics make "Made in China",last week i saw in a local supermarket ,garlic,and on the pack was a big "made in china".......why we have garlic from china?we are not able to grow garlic in our country and we have to buy everything from chines Huh

?

LOL... Maybe the bag was made in China...?

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The price of gold: Chinese mining in Ghana documentary

sana8410

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Quote from: Snorek on May 06, 2014, 01:20:10 PM

Is China silently conquering Africa?
I would changed that title for this one:
Is China silently conquering the World?

If You look at Your phone or a battery You would probably find a sign saying that it was made in China. Clothes, shoes, Your PC also (at lest some parts) are made in China. Now that may seem like nothing bad but the more things are produced in China the fewer jobs there will be in Europe or USA.

You can say that again!!You won't find just clothes and electronics make "Made in China",last week i saw in a local supermarket ,garlic,and on the pack was a big "made in china".......why we have garlic from china?we are not able to grow garlic in our country and we have to buy everything from chines Huh

?

byt411

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Quote from: umair127 on May 06, 2014, 02:05:06 PM

Quote from: beetcoin on May 06, 2014, 01:47:08 PM

china has too many problems to conquer the world. their economy is starting to sputter. they are currently running it into the ground by expanding real estate at an untenable rate. i don't know the politics of it, but i doubt it's simple.

besides that, china has a history of conquering neighboring lands for natural resources. it's currently in contention with practically every asian country (including india). it also deposed/conquered the tibetan government for natural resources.

Really China economy is starting to spurtter. There wages are much better then ones of lower class countries. There wage is above 600 USD in some parts ofthere country. Two months ago they went into a european country to start a relationship with them so they can probably open more factories. I dont think there economy is that bad you think it is.

I assure you, the economy is not bad at all, it is improving very well.
The biggest problem in China is education, morals and common sense.

My parents are from Hong Kong, (a ex-british colony part of China, which is considered a "city", and does not have to follow chinese rules and governs itself) and seeing what we call "mainland" tourists is just horrifying. Apparently taking a dump on the floor at a 60-floor shopping center is perfectly acceptable, and when security is called, they try to bribe them (WTF?) and if not, just punch them in their face.

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Quote from: beetcoin on May 06, 2014, 01:47:08 PM

china has too many problems to conquer the world. their economy is starting to sputter. they are currently running it into the ground by expanding real estate at an untenable rate. i don't know the politics of it, but i doubt it's simple.

besides that, china has a history of conquering neighboring lands for natural resources. it's currently in contention with practically every asian country (including india). it also deposed/conquered the tibetan government for natural resources.

Really China economy is starting to spurtter. There wages are much better then ones of lower class countries. There wage is above 600 USD in some parts ofthere country. Two months ago they went into a european country to start a relationship with them so they can probably open more factories. I dont think there economy is that bad you think it is.

beetcoin

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china has too many problems to conquer the world. their economy is starting to sputter. they are currently running it into the ground by expanding real estate at an untenable rate. i don't know the politics of it, but i doubt it's simple.

besides that, china has a history of conquering neighboring lands for natural resources. it's currently in contention with practically every asian country (including india). it also deposed/conquered the tibetan government for natural resources.

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Quote from: Balthazar on May 06, 2014, 01:36:30 PM

It's not a "real" investment, it's old debt. African states got a large sum of loans from USSR and China during the Cold War time and they're unable to pay it back. You can see that now Russia and China allowing them to default this obligations in exchange for land and rights on deposits of oil, gold, diamond, uranium, nickel, etc. RF started this type of activity in the beginning of 2000s.

Actually, the US also tried this in the past, but China did it much more quickly before the US could.

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It's not a "real" investment, it's old debt. African states got a large sum of loans from USSR and China during the Cold War time and they're unable to pay it back. You can see that now Russia and China allowing them to default this obligations in exchange for land and rights on deposits of oil, gold, diamond, uranium, nickel, etc. RF started this kind of activity in the beginning of 2000s.

Snorek

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Is China silently conquering Africa?
I would changed that title for this one:
Is China silently conquering the World?

If You look at Your phone or a battery You would probably find a sign saying that it was made in China. Clothes, shoes, Your PC also (at lest some parts) are made in China. Now that may seem like nothing bad but the more things are produced in China the fewer jobs there will be in Europe or USA.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Charlie Prime on May 05, 2014, 10:07:21 AM

The Chinese way of gaining natural resources is smarter than the American way.

Have to agree with that. I don't really like the Chinese, but have to say that they are much more intelligent when compared to the American politicians. Giving small monetary grants and other form of support to poor nations and getting mining licenses, contracts.etc in return is much more inexpensive and clever than going to war with some country and capturing its natural resources.

Charlie Prime

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The Chinese way of gaining natural resources is smarter than the American way.

bryant.coleman

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Check the investments made by the Chinese in Africa:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/07-2/China%20In%20Africa.jpg

The latest country to have gigantic Chinese investment is Zimbabwe, which is a pariah to most of the EU nations and the US, due to the dictatorship led by Robert Mugabe.

Quote

While Ukraine and Russia are on a war footing, China is busy doing what it does best - quietly take over another country without spilling a drop of blood, according to Tyler Durden at ZeroHedge. This time it is Zimbabwe, and confidential reports also suggest Mugabe is on China's payroll.

Topic: Is China silently conquering Africa? (Read 1726 times)