Is crypto as a financial investment doomed?

pereira4

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Quote from: findftp on January 24, 2015, 10:16:46 AM

Quote from: manselr on January 24, 2015, 10:14:35 AM

Quote from: findftp on January 24, 2015, 07:16:53 AM

Quote from: Possum577 on January 18, 2015, 01:34:10 PM

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

^ this.

These times are just moments in history when people are figuring out what the best currency is while they already know but were too late to the game to get rich quick so they inject some hopium in their veins and gamble with some shitcoin in the hope they "earn" some bitcoin for it instead.
Don't be fooled, don't waste your time and energy.

Buy bitcoin, hold and get rewarded.

Or, speculate on some shitcoin knowing it will go to zero and try to rip off as many bitcoin as you can from those get rich quick people. But you have to like this game. I prefer the first.

Well the only way to find out if there will be other cryptos beside bitcoin is people deciding to adopt another coin. If merchants start accepting for example Monero specially in dark markets, monero will be another crypto that success. If people start using Maidsafe, Safecoin will subsequently be a success.. etc.

Yes, true.
But I doubt many people find it convenient to have 23 different shitcoins in their wallets and remember their application or value.
Hell, most people already have a problem understanding bitcoin itself!

Not 23 but a couple. For sure most of them are shit, my portfolio is a joke because the only surviving coins i have out of like 40 are bitcoin monero safe litecoin and doge, the rest are dead in volume.

findftp

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Delusional crypto obsessionist

Quote from: manselr on January 24, 2015, 10:14:35 AM

Quote from: findftp on January 24, 2015, 07:16:53 AM

Quote from: Possum577 on January 18, 2015, 01:34:10 PM

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

^ this.

These times are just moments in history when people are figuring out what the best currency is while they already know but were too late to the game to get rich quick so they inject some hopium in their veins and gamble with some shitcoin in the hope they "earn" some bitcoin for it instead.
Don't be fooled, don't waste your time and energy.

Buy bitcoin, hold and get rewarded.

Or, speculate on some shitcoin knowing it will go to zero and try to rip off as many bitcoin as you can from those get rich quick people. But you have to like this game. I prefer the first.

Well the only way to find out if there will be other cryptos beside bitcoin is people deciding to adopt another coin. If merchants start accepting for example Monero specially in dark markets, monero will be another crypto that success. If people start using Maidsafe, Safecoin will subsequently be a success.. etc.

Yes, true.
But I doubt many people find it convenient to have 23 different shitcoins in their wallets and remember their application or value.
Hell, most people already have a problem understanding bitcoin itself!

manselr

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Quote from: findftp on January 24, 2015, 07:16:53 AM

Quote from: Possum577 on January 18, 2015, 01:34:10 PM

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

^ this.

These times are just moments in history when people are figuring out what the best currency is while they already know but were too late to the game to get rich quick so they inject some hopium in their veins and gamble with some shitcoin in the hope they "earn" some bitcoin for it instead.
Don't be fooled, don't waste your time and energy.

Buy bitcoin, hold and get rewarded.

Or, speculate on some shitcoin knowing it will go to zero and try to rip off as many bitcoin as you can from those get rich quick people. But you have to like this game. I prefer the first.

Well the only way to find out if there will be other cryptos beside bitcoin is people deciding to adopt another coin. If merchants start accepting for example Monero specially in dark markets, monero will be another crypto that success. If people start using Maidsafe, Safecoin will subsequently be a success.. etc.

1Referee

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Quote from: findftp on January 24, 2015, 07:16:53 AM

Quote from: Possum577 on January 18, 2015, 01:34:10 PM

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

Or, speculate on some shitcoin knowing it will go to zero and try to rip off as many bitcoin as you can from those get rich quick people. But you have to like this game. I prefer the first.

Such people are gamblers.

They are more willing to invest their hard earned cash into something that will lose 99% of its value.

Investing in Bitcoin for them is not an option as they want quick profit.

findftp

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Delusional crypto obsessionist

Quote from: Possum577 on January 18, 2015, 01:34:10 PM

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

^ this.

These times are just moments in history when people are figuring out what the best currency is while they already know but were too late to the game to get rich quick so they inject some hopium in their veins and gamble with some shitcoin in the hope they "earn" some bitcoin for it instead.
Don't be fooled, don't waste your time and energy.

Buy bitcoin, hold and get rewarded.

Or, speculate on some shitcoin knowing it will go to zero and try to rip off as many bitcoin as you can from those get rich quick people. But you have to like this game. I prefer the first.

botany

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Quote from: RodeoX on January 21, 2015, 11:34:42 AM

Quote from: R2D221 on January 20, 2015, 09:37:01 AM

Quote from: David Latapie on January 18, 2015, 10:55:49 AM

Is crypto as a financial investment doomed?

I hope so. I want to use Bitcoin as a currency.

Amen. It has become a confusing sideshow in the economy.

It has attracted people who otherwise wouldn't care about Bitcoin. It has its advantages.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: Amph on January 23, 2015, 12:56:48 PM

not doomed, just a reset for now, the altscene just stopped for a "moment", not really dead

It's not stopped imo, the freemarket is just doing it's work and making all the alts that are worth nothing dissapear (and most of them are worth nothing). But you can still find a lot of projects that are worth investing in. Just like in "non crypto" projects, most of the stuff out there is just not necessary, thats why getting rich is a hard game.

Amph

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not doomed, just a reset for now, the altscene just stopped for a "moment", not really dead

neurotypical

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Quote from: RodeoX on January 21, 2015, 11:34:42 AM

Quote from: R2D221 on January 20, 2015, 09:37:01 AM

Quote from: David Latapie on January 18, 2015, 10:55:49 AM

Is crypto as a financial investment doomed?

I hope so. I want to use Bitcoin as a currency.

Amen. It has become a confusing sideshow in the economy.

Bitcoin will be seen as a financial investment for years as people look at it as an asset with potential to grow and not a means of exchange. It will take massive adoption and stability.

nakaone

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Quote from: thresher on January 21, 2015, 11:25:32 AM

Quote from: Possum577 on January 18, 2015, 01:34:10 PM

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

The other crypto currencies have shown us that bitcoin could be worthless like the ________(100s, 1000s, Huh

?) of alt coins.
I don't believe that it will be worthless, but it has no reason to be worth anything if something else came along that did the same thing, but had a better infrastructure, which is the only reason btc is better than any other crypto by a landslide.

you guys are aware that building infrastructure is not a fingersnip aren't you?

go to the altcoin landscape, there are wonderful technological advanced currency maybe far better than bitcoin at its core which fail brutally.

that bitcoin fails like an altcoin will not happen and in the case it will be replaced it will take enough time that everyone here will see it - the altcoin having the plan to replace bitcoin should really really hurry

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: R2D221 on January 20, 2015, 09:37:01 AM

Quote from: David Latapie on January 18, 2015, 10:55:49 AM

Is crypto as a financial investment doomed?

I hope so. I want to use Bitcoin as a currency.

Amen. It has become a confusing sideshow in the economy.

R2D221

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Quote from: thresher on January 21, 2015, 11:25:32 AM

The other crypto currencies have shown us that bitcoin could be worthless like the ________(100s, 1000s, Huh

?) of alt coins.

I don't understand why you say this.

Bitcoin was the invention. There was nothing like it before 2009.

Altcoins, on the other hand, are using Bitcoin as a base. So, how is Bitcoin as worthless as all altcoins? If it weren't for Bitcoin, they wouldn't even exist.

thresher

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Quote from: Possum577 on January 18, 2015, 01:34:10 PM

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

The other crypto currencies have shown us that bitcoin could be worthless like the ________(100s, 1000s, Huh

?) of alt coins.
I don't believe that it will be worthless, but it has no reason to be worth anything if something else came along that did the same thing, but had a better infrastructure, which is the only reason btc is better than any other crypto by a landslide.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Quote from: oblivi on January 20, 2015, 01:09:05 PM

Quote from: countryfree on January 20, 2015, 09:57:52 AM

We need to make a difference between cryptocurrencies and investments. A few people are commodities traders, but most investors don't see currencies as investments. Neither do I. BTC would only get better if people using it as an investment were giving it up.

Put money in expecting to put more money out than you put in = investment.
So yeah, everything can be a investment, it doesn't need to be Forex or whatnot.

My point is that many more people invests in stocks rather than currencies.

nakaone

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if you explain how to clone network effects: yes i think it is doomed.

before that I think we are sitting on one of the most interesting disrupting technology one can imagine.

the only question is if bitcoin can hold its omnipotential state; networking much stronger than any other cryptocurrency out there and therefore not giving any place for altcoins

at this point of time my answer is yes with some reservations (this changed from a strong yes) - there is this wonderful post of Peter R in the altcoin observer, which lead me to this conclusion.

regarding cloning or diluting, value of cryptocurrencies is derived by network effects, not technological advancement. I wish a central institution good luck with creating private money or a cryptocurrency, when it is known that a decentralized consensus can basically do the same and is existent.

afaik your information regarding counterparty/ medici are at best misleading. they will run medici on top of counterparty.

keep up the good work on xmr, if there is place for a second big currency it will be this one Wink

.

we are simply in a bear market where everything is put in question.

David Latapie

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Quote from: legendster on January 20, 2015, 12:41:06 AM

Quote from: David Latapie on January 19, 2015, 08:48:48 PM

Quote from: legendster on January 18, 2015, 05:13:22 PM

And far as investing in a currency is concerned, I answered a similar question here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-economy-indian-bhai-log-kindly-scrutinize-my-opinion-923906

Its a lengthy response so only read if you got time.

tl;dr?

If one doesnt have the time to read, one should get involved in investing moneyf

If one doesn't have the time to write an executive summary of one's post, one should not consider widespread distribution oh one's ideas in a highly-competitive information market

Quote from: Q7 on January 20, 2015, 08:55:54 AM

Wait you are telling us, crypto as a whole is failing and that includes bitcoin but on the other hand, tells us to create a completely new crypto to own one. So which one is right?

Not crypto as a whole. The hoarding aspect of crypto.
Gold rush is over. It is time to build California.
Said otherwise: the accumulation time as a whole is over. The future belongs to ecosystems and services. Not owning gold, but making something out of it. When an economy moves from "accumulation phase" to "service phase", this is actually a good news for the economy. It means it is leaving infancy.

That's what I meant by "as a financial investment". But as an economy investment, this is the opportunity of a lifetime.

Quote from: ?? on ??

As an investment both of those coins at this point are worthless, (I like Monero and have friends holding some for me) But its unusable in everyday usage right now and thus useless and only speculative. If you want to make XMR have any value you need to concentrate building it so others can use it like Bitcoin.

I agree wholeheartedly. That's why we are focusing on developing these tools that are needed so much - Bitcoin had 5 years to make it, we only got one year.

(by the way, if the CLI Monero wallet is too complex for you, you can use mymonero web wallet - everything is done locally, the wallet never have your private keys)

oblivi

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Quote from: countryfree on January 20, 2015, 09:57:52 AM

We need to make a difference between cryptocurrencies and investments. A few people are commodities traders, but most investors don't see currencies as investments. Neither do I. BTC would only get better if people using it as an investment were giving it up.

Put money in expecting to put more money out than you put in = investment.
So yeah, everything can be a investment, it doesn't need to be Forex or whatnot.

R2D221

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Quote from: countryfree on January 20, 2015, 09:57:52 AM

but most investors don't see currencies as investments

That's a contradiction right there.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

We need to make a difference between cryptocurrencies and investments. A few people are commodities traders, but most investors don't see currencies as investments. Neither do I. BTC would only get better if people using it as an investment were giving it up.

onemorebtc

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i share your view that cryptocurrencies will be cloned and our current stash may be worthless.
i could imagine that some countries starts issueing their currency as a cryptocurrency (as soon as we/they have figured out a good way to do offchain / offline transactions).

but i think there always will be one global cryptocurrency for things like swift or (generally) money transfers between countries. mining rigs are just cheaper than to carry guarded gold around the world.

i dont think this will be bitcoin though. as a german i heard the complaints about americans reading our swift transfers: i am sure only an anonymous and fungible (which i thinks goes hand-in-hand) currency will win.

i hope for monero... but who knows Wink

EDIT: i forgot paypal... thats another reason why a global cryptocurrency must exist. FUCK THEM!

Undermood

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There are some promising crypto projects out there! Some cryptos will come out and be successful. No one knows for sure and some may be doomed to fail. So the crypto world is full of risk.

R2D221

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Quote from: David Latapie on January 18, 2015, 10:55:49 AM

Is crypto as a financial investment doomed?

I hope so. I want to use Bitcoin as a currency.

thejaytiesto

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I can't think of a better long-long term investment. What other technology has the foundations to disrupt as much as the blockchain? get real.

Q7

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Wait you are telling us, crypto as a whole is failing and that includes bitcoin but on the other hand, tells us to create a completely new crypto to own one. So which one is right?

kwukduck

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You think big companies will release it as an open source free technology?
I think the answer to that also answers your main question.

I really couldn't care less about this super revolutionary bitcoin replacement that will change the world forever and advance civilization 20 years if it's controlled by one party.

legendster

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www.V.systems

Quote from: David Latapie on January 19, 2015, 08:48:48 PM

Quote from: legendster on January 18, 2015, 05:13:22 PM

And far as investing in a currency is concerned, I answered a similar question here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-economy-indian-bhai-log-kindly-scrutinize-my-opinion-923906

Its a lengthy response so only read if you got time.

tl;dr?

If one doesnt have the time to read, one should get involved in investing money.

twiifm

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Quote from: David Latapie on January 18, 2015, 10:55:49 AM

I am really concerned with the future of crypto now. Even more than when I wrote cryptofiat (which itself becomes more plausible) or my analysis of Gartner on crypto).
The future of any crypto (except maybe Monero because of its target audience and NXT because of its considerable advance in building an ecosystem and even that, not sure).

Reason: http://www.coindesk.com/ibm-reveals-proof-concept-blockchain-powered-internet-things/

Overstock does not use XCP but clone it. IBM doesn't use XBT or ETH but clone them. That's the power of open-source.

Winners: implementors. Loser: crypto owners
This has nothing to do with bear market or bull market.

Solution: focus on your expertise on cryptos and sell it to employers and customers. Do consulting. Don't rely on your stash. It is probably doomed, whichever coin you have. Remember the dotcom bubble. Use your expertise to work on crypto once the present bubble has stopped deflating.

Financial investment may be doomed, but the expertise investment is only beginning.

Opinions?

I agree with your sentiments

David Latapie

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: legendster on January 18, 2015, 05:13:22 PM

And far as investing in a currency is concerned, I answered a similar question here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-economy-indian-bhai-log-kindly-scrutinize-my-opinion-923906

Its a lengthy response so only read if you got time.

tl;dr?

legendster

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Merit: 764

www.V.systems

Quote from: David Latapie on January 18, 2015, 10:55:49 AM

I am really concerned with the future of crypto now. Even more than when I wrote cryptofiat (which itself becomes more plausible) or my analysis of Gartner on crypto).
The future of any crypto (except maybe Monero because of its target audience and NXT because of its considerable advance in building an ecosystem and even that, not sure).

Reason: http://www.coindesk.com/ibm-reveals-proof-concept-blockchain-powered-internet-things/

Overstock does not use XCP but clone it. IBM doesn't use XBT or ETH but clone them. That's the power of open-source.

Winners: implementors. Loser: crypto owners
This has nothing to do with bear market or bull market.

Solution: focus on your expertise on cryptos and sell it to employers and customers. Do consulting. Don't rely on your stash. It is probably doomed, whichever coin you have. Remember the dotcom bubble. Use your expertise to work on crypto once the present bubble has stopped deflating.

Financial investment may be doomed, but the expertise investment is only beginning.

Opinions?

I HATE the idea of multiple crypto currencies. Makes no sense to me. People do invest their time in it for short term benefits, in the long run alternate cryptos are dud.

However some alt-cryptos are proving to be the 'next' step in evolution of crypto currency instead of being a mere copy of Bitcoin, and recognizing and investing in such projects are always a good idea but full of risks.

And far as investing in a currency is concerned, I answered a similar question here : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-economy-indian-bhai-log-kindly-scrutinize-my-opinion-923906

Its a lengthy response so only read if you got time.

Possum577

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Loose lips sink sigs!

There's no need for more than one cryptocurrency, and Bitcoin won that race.

David Latapie

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Activity: 658

Merit: 503

Monero Core Team

I am really concerned with the future of crypto now. Even more than when I wrote cryptofiat (which itself becomes more plausible) or my analysis of Gartner on crypto).
The future of any crypto (except maybe Monero because of its target audience and NXT because of its considerable advance in building an ecosystem and even that, not sure).

Reason: http://www.coindesk.com/ibm-reveals-proof-concept-blockchain-powered-internet-things/

Overstock does not use XCP but clone it. IBM doesn't use XBT or ETH but clone them. That's the power of open-source.

Winners: implementors. Loser: crypto owners
This has nothing to do with bear market or bull market.

Solution: focus on your expertise on cryptos and sell it to employers and customers. Do consulting. Don't rely on your stash. It is probably doomed, whichever coin you have. Remember the dotcom bubble. Use your expertise to work on crypto once the present bubble has stopped deflating.

Financial investment may be doomed, but the expertise investment is only beginning.

Opinions?

Topic: Is crypto as a financial investment doomed? (Read 2308 times)