Topic: Is it a value reserve? (Read 866 times)

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

It's more like a gold in a digital aspect because of it's value. But I doubt if it could change the world's monetaty system.

Marry Finch

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Quote from: Kemarit on May 23, 2019, 06:42:17 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Now many people use Bitcoin and cryptocurrency as a whole as a reserve of value preservation. How can Bitcoin be used as a reserve value? At the same time, Bitcoin as digital gold is not very good due to high price volatility.
As for the question of changing the cryptocurrency world at least in the field of finance, it is too early to talk about it. Recently, the European Central Bank announced that cryptocurrency has not yet had a significant impact on financial relations in society. Cryptocurrency has just started to develop and we should not make premature conclusions for now.

South Park

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Majority called it digital money, or even digital gold (comparing it to Gold, because it's being mine). And as far as changing the world, well it has disrupted the financial industry already. Just look at how banks and government treat crypto. Some of they think that crypto will lead to chaos and economic collapses. But so far we haven't heard anything except positive outcome, specially in countries like Venezuela and Zimbabwe for instance.

Exactly, banks and governments are trying to scare people away from bitcoin and while there are without a doubt some issues, like the huge amount of scammers, those issues are not really inherent to bitcoin, however when there are economic issues in a country we are seeing that cryptocurrencies can be used to alleviate those problems and as cryptocurrencies become more powerful and influential it will not surprise me that its effects will become even more pronounced and positive during the next world crisis and that will lead people to realize their power and to finally adopt them.

Greed Dev

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Quote from: maxreish on May 23, 2019, 01:22:01 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

any kind of property that becomes invalid or lost, influences many people. When Bitcoin is lost, it affects the whole market crypto in many respects. We can say that the importance of Bitcoin is huge because it is accounting for more than 55% of the market share of crypto market. It is a huge value and it can cause recession and reduce supply in the financial trading market.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

We can say that the economic status is now changing. Thanks to the cryptocurrency.

The effect on crypto has been widespread but it is still meek and in its early stages. I wont say that it has made a huge impact but has made a sizeable impact.

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In fact yes, we can consider bitoin as a digital gold now since it was some kind of investment that can fluctuates and can earn profits like physical gold does.

Only if you sell your bitcoin. Not if you keep holding your coins. Parting with your bitcoin can be a tough decision if you are stubborn like the few hodlers of the early days.

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Anyhow, the world is slowly adopting blockchain technology. See how some businesses are accepting it now? It is widely used nowadays.

Blockchain even though is something that is being adopted should not be though to be similar to bitcoin. People are still very skeptical about bitcoin and its future. Many people even take bitcoin seriously as something to be used in future.

ricardobs

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Quote from: a7goo on May 13, 2019, 02:57:52 PM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

I believe that is the purpose for Bitcoin , to be a store of value and not cash. But it is not there yet, and there are also a lot of risk in holding Bitcoin. If you buy Bitcoin the rate of its volatility shows that you're giving t be taking a lot of risks, because you can check the next day only to notice that your asset has drastically dropped in value.

So I think for now it is not yet a store of value but it is evolving to become a store value soon. For now we are still going to hold gold in position of being the better option when we talk of a means of storing our values.

Kemarit

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Certainly ........ but paying a pizza 10,000 btc in 2010 is not very cheap....Laszlo Hanyecz DOCET. The future is a Satoshi' s idea and his paradigm.

Forgot about Laszlo Hanyecz, that time bitcoin is purely on its experimental phase. No one would have thought that the price could zoom at $19000 at pop in 2017.

Quote from: Supercrypt on May 23, 2019, 03:14:44 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Majority called it digital money, or even digital gold (comparing it to Gold, because it's being mine). And as far as changing the world, well it has disrupted the financial industry already. Just look at how banks and government treat crypto. Some of they think that crypto will lead to chaos and economic collapses. But so far we haven't heard anything except positive outcome, specially in countries like Venezuela and Zimbabwe for instance.

leea-1334

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Temporary forum vacation

If bitcoin supply eventually get exhausted, there will always be chance to transfer within the circulating one, and this is why many people believe that bitcoin has the tendency of increase to about 1 million dollars per one when the supply becomes very scarce and miners can no longer mine again, other than purchasing from already existing holders.

Don’t forget the fact too that we still have other good coins too that can serve this purpose, like Ethereum.

How on earth can bitcoin supply get exhausted? It is a currency as much a value reserve and people will continue to use it. Look at the transaction history and statistics. Blocks getting more full every day. More transactions per second every year, and this is even with Lightning Network taking more and more transactions off the chain.

If no one uses the coin, there is no demand, then there is no use for supply.

Supercrypt

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At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

I think the supply we have can still serve many nations, reason being that a time will come that 1 bitcoin will become very expenses, so quantity won’t really matter again, but the cost of even purchasing I bitcoin.

If bitcoin supply eventually get exhausted, there will always be chance to transfer within the circulating one, and this is why many people believe that bitcoin has the tendency of increase to about 1 million dollars per one when the supply becomes very scarce and miners can no longer mine again, other than purchasing from already existing holders.

Don’t forget the fact too that we still have other good coins too that can serve this purpose, like Ethereum.

maxreish

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Quote from: dark1234 on May 22, 2019, 07:24:33 PM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

We can say that the economic status is now changing. Thanks to the cryptocurrency. In fact yes, we can consider bitoin as a digital gold now since it was some kind of investment that can fluctuates and can earn profits like physical gold does. Anyhow, the world is slowly adopting blockchain technology. See how some businesses are accepting it now? It is widely used nowadays.

cocoadreamboy

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Quote from: cocoadreamboy on May 22, 2019, 06:52:11 PM

Quote from: kemetz on May 22, 2019, 06:30:18 PM

Quote from: cocoadreamboy on May 22, 2019, 06:52:11 PM

At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

gold and bitcoin I think it's not too much different because every year the price will definitely be the same as moving up
only if bitcoin has a limited amount so that the price will continue to move according to the turnover in exchange
we don't know what the future will be like, bitcoin, whose value is always unstable if it is used as a currency, I don't think it will run smoothly

Bitcoin actually has a greater value reserve than gold because bitcoin has ACTIVE investment chasing it. The exchange volumes are inflated by over 95%. There is very little actual volume it is all lies. Check out my website to see how the price floor works:

https://www.amsinger.org/subscriber-data

good article guys ....
and of course bitcoin will always be able to increase by more than 95% because we know bitcoin can be rarer than gold and in trading every day with a higher volume ratio we can see it in CMC and every day, therefore a long-term investment for bitcoin is more challenging because there is a high level of risk and a very large profit offer

Be very careful with CMC volume quotes this is a very good article about how CMC and exchanges overly inflate the volume of crypto:
https://www.sec.gov/comments/sr-nysearca-2019-01/srnysearca201901-5164833-183434.pdf
CMC is a manipulative institution, and it is a big reason of why I made my site, to present a clear truth.

Aaron

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Quote from: kemetz on May 22, 2019, 06:30:18 PM

Quote from: kemetz on May 22, 2019, 06:30:18 PM

At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

gold and bitcoin I think it's not too much different because every year the price will definitely be the same as moving up
only if bitcoin has a limited amount so that the price will continue to move according to the turnover in exchange
we don't know what the future will be like, bitcoin, whose value is always unstable if it is used as a currency, I don't think it will run smoothly

Bitcoin actually has a greater value reserve than gold because bitcoin has ACTIVE investment chasing it. The exchange volumes are inflated by over 95%. There is very little actual volume it is all lies. Check out my website to see how the price floor works:

https://www.amsinger.org/subscriber-data

good article guys ....
and of course bitcoin will always be able to increase by more than 95% because we know bitcoin can be rarer than gold and in trading every day with a higher volume ratio we can see it in CMC and every day, therefore a long-term investment for bitcoin is more challenging because there is a high level of risk and a very large profit offer

cocoadreamboy

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At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

gold and bitcoin I think it's not too much different because every year the price will definitely be the same as moving up
only if bitcoin has a limited amount so that the price will continue to move according to the turnover in exchange
we don't know what the future will be like, bitcoin, whose value is always unstable if it is used as a currency, I don't think it will run smoothly

Bitcoin actually has a greater value reserve than gold because bitcoin has ACTIVE investment chasing it. The exchange volumes are inflated by over 95%. There is very little actual volume it is all lies. Check out my website to see how the price floor works:

https://www.amsinger.org/subscriber-data

kemetz

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Quote from: shinharu10282016 on May 15, 2019, 06:31:14 PM

At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

gold and bitcoin I think it's not too much different because every year the price will definitely be the same as moving up
only if bitcoin has a limited amount so that the price will continue to move according to the turnover in exchange
we don't know what the future will be like, bitcoin, whose value is always unstable if it is used as a currency, I don't think it will run smoothly

cocoadreamboy

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Quote from: cocoadreamboy on May 13, 2019, 02:44:38 PM

Bitcoin does indeed have a value reserve, but it is probably not what you might think. Over the course of bitcoin there has been repeated investment in 2 categories:

Infrastructure (computing equipment)
Electricity (and operating costs)

In order to make a bitcoin it costs money and the combined investment over time has created a momentum. That investment in infrastructure and electricity is built into the price of bitcoin and always has been. No one makes something for less than what it can be sold for. Here is a picture covering the last 3 years of bitcoin's price over the infrastructure cost and the price floor (infrastructure cost + electricity cost). It is a realtime number that changes based on the hash rate and mining efficiency.

Click on the link to see the image

You can find out more about it here at my website if you like:

https://www.amsinger.org/fundamental-method

Hope I have helped!

So its value reserve depends on the mining community? because as you said

Infrastructure (the computing equipments) are the ASIC people use to mine it. and;

Electricity which is certainly a big part of it. No one can create bitcoin without these two.

Yes the value reserve is the mining sunk cost and operating cost just like any other business

Oilacris

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Quote from: snipie on May 22, 2019, 01:33:47 PM

At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

Gold price is not stable, it can in fact increase or less likely decrease from year to year, however it is by far more stable than bitcoin.
Bitcoin has a fixed quantity but not a limited one. If bitcoin adoption becomes global and demand >>>supply, the price will jump and the satoshi unit could be devised further to millisatoshi? nanosatoshi?...

That's an another story yet its just normal to think on about the law of supply and demand not only applied with Bitcoin which do have limited supply but on all sorts of things.

This had been an argumentation saying about Bitcoin is a value reserve which it really isn't if we do think deep through.

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Quote from: Naida_BR on May 18, 2019, 03:27:14 PM

At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

Gold price is not stable, it can in fact increase or less likely decrease from year to year, however it is by far more stable than bitcoin.
Bitcoin has a fixed quantity but not a limited one. If bitcoin adoption becomes global and demand >>>supply, the price will jump and the satoshi unit could be devised further to millisatoshi? nanosatoshi?...

South Park

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin is more than a way to store value.
Right now it is so because there are not any real use cases for it in our real gold, thus people hodl bitcoin and wait for it to become mainstream. Its feature may change in the future as the usage of it changes through time.

In my opinion it will never change, if people are willing to hold their bitcoin when it does not have many uses why they will sell their bitcoin for fiat once a significant portion of the population of the world is using it? At that point long term holders will just use enough bitcoin to cover their necessities and to spend on luxuries but the rest of their bitcoin will be in hardware and paper wallets and they will never sell it, or at least that is what I hope they will do because that is my long term plan.

bonker

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Quote from: magneto on May 21, 2019, 03:30:17 AM

At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

Bitcoin has limited quantity but not the stable value like gold so the chances of using it as reserve for value to any currency is null and bitcoin itself a currency whereas gold is not.

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

What do you mean 'in a deterministic sense'? That's the part of your post that I did not understand.

Bitcoin is a long term store of value by design, given that it doesn't have the issues that fiat currencies are faced with in terms of the ease of which the value of fiat currencies can be debased simply through centralised manipulation.

Even if bitcoin doesn't necessarily replace fiat, it will be of value in the sense that it'll provide a stable, save haven type global asset for people to hedge against inflation in fiat, especially in countries which suffer from hyperinflation. Perhaps that's the answer you're looking for.

like in my country where although not as a currency, bitcoin will be included in the stock exchange as an investment tool. therefore it will be rich for those who are loyal to bitcoin to keep holding it in the long run

Kevin77

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I think it is funny that these super rich wealthy people are afraid of just one currency that is literally made up in paper and then put to use only 10 years ago by probably someone they would call a nerd.

I mean the power of "nerd" is literally going really up in the recent decade with all the facebooks and twitters and googles and all that, they became the wealthiest and richest people with the most power in the world who are also willing to help the world time to time (at least bill gates does and if not wrong Mark signed a deal to give away half of his wealth to charity when he dies). This sherman dude literally showing us that the new generation of rich will not be only rich but responsible and instead of the boomer period we will have a better world in the future, the potential is right there.

magneto

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Quote from: indrakusumaindra on May 20, 2019, 11:27:33 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

What do you mean 'in a deterministic sense'? That's the part of your post that I did not understand.

Bitcoin is a long term store of value by design, given that it doesn't have the issues that fiat currencies are faced with in terms of the ease of which the value of fiat currencies can be debased simply through centralised manipulation.

Even if bitcoin doesn't necessarily replace fiat, it will be of value in the sense that it'll provide a stable, save haven type global asset for people to hedge against inflation in fiat, especially in countries which suffer from hyperinflation. Perhaps that's the answer you're looking for.

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Hello =)

At least Bitcoin isn't a fractional reserve currency. Bitcoin itself is mined much like Gold and has a limited quantity. The value of each Bitcoin is created and strengthened by the vast quantity of miners around the globe. Bitcoin is a store of value which moves in the direction of the media, government, businesses and developers who support it.

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~snip~

Well i heard the news about rusia going to sell their gold for bitcoin. I do think it could be real in future but still i do think bitcoin is a bad choices for value reserve cause bitcoin has a high volatility which is not a good choices to store value. But who knows in future bitcoin could be usefull and also have less volatility like gold.

I don't think so.n That is just a rumor and I know how gold represents for something, it is one of a precious metal and symbolize riches. Bitcoin is just a digital asset and its value is very considerable but not to the extend that it will be consider as a lifetime investment to hold compared to gold.

Cause for me, I will never sell my gold for any reason, maybe I'll find a way to get funds in order to buy Bitcoins.

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Well i heard the news about rusia going to sell their gold for bitcoin. I do think it could be real in future but still i do think bitcoin is a bad choices for value reserve cause bitcoin has a high volatility which is not a good choices to store value. But who knows in future bitcoin could be usefull and also have less volatility like gold.

fiulpro

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A value reserve should essentially be something that is non volatile and doesn't change it's value that drastically with respect to time , unfortunately it cannot be regarded as a reserve since it is quite volatile and cannot be taken as a store house of value for the future , quite the opposite it can become valued at zero the next moment and no one would be responsible for it therefore I don't think it can be taken as one.
Gold is something that we would need as long as there are women in this world or we find some better and cheaper alternative.
I think it cannot be regarded as gold till the time it's volatile and isn't backed up by any other cryptocurrencies.

ricardobs

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Quote from: Naida_BR on May 18, 2019, 03:27:14 PM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

A lot of people don't think Bitcoin should be used as a reserve for value because it not stable, the volatility of Bitcoin is too much that if you invest your money in it you're likely to lose at anytime if you're not careful. But Bitcoin can be worth it as an investment, and that's if you really know what you're doing and how to play your game perfectly. If you invest at the right time you're going to reap the fruits heavily as the price goes up, your profit will be going up as well.

whiteblue

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Quote from: annango on May 18, 2019, 03:45:04 PM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin is more than a way to store value.
Right now it is so because there are not any real use cases for it in our real gold, thus people hodl bitcoin and wait for it to become mainstream. Its feature may change in the future as the usage of it changes through time.

indeed a small part of bitcoin functions like that, but bitcoin can still develop again in the future even more so with the very limited number of bitcoin supplies that will make the price of bitcoin more expensive in the future.

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Quote from: neonshium on May 18, 2019, 08:37:12 AM

Quote from: neonshium on May 18, 2019, 08:37:12 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

With the current state of bitcoin, it is possible for bitcoin to operate two identities, the first is as a store of value making it a digital gold that the value keeps appreciating over time, and with the help of segwit being implemented into the crypto space, it is even now possible to use bitcoin as a means of payment for transactions carried out even to the least, like purchasing of coffee, this can be done via the use of lightning network.

It largely depends on each people's thought that whether or not bitcoin is a value reserve. In reality, compared to fiat currency and gold, it shows much dominant role. Our world is going to approach cashless society, bitcoin is a good kind of crypto currency that can easily connect to the world of using advanced technology for payment. Although the number of country recognizes bitcoin officially is really few, still bitcoin is getting more developed and do its great role in the whole perpect of modern life acquire. I think bitcoin should be considered a value reserve.

I think that paper money will still be valuable to use today, rather than crypto money because there are not many countries that recognize bitcoin. but I agree that bitcoin must be considered a value reserve

annango

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

With the current state of bitcoin, it is possible for bitcoin to operate two identities, the first is as a store of value making it a digital gold that the value keeps appreciating over time, and with the help of segwit being implemented into the crypto space, it is even now possible to use bitcoin as a means of payment for transactions carried out even to the least, like purchasing of coffee, this can be done via the use of lightning network.

It largely depends on each people's thought that whether or not bitcoin is a value reserve. In reality, compared to fiat currency and gold, it shows much dominant role. Our world is going to approach cashless society, bitcoin is a good kind of crypto currency that can easily connect to the world of using advanced technology for payment. Although the number of country recognizes bitcoin officially is really few, still bitcoin is getting more developed and do its great role in the whole perpect of modern life acquire. I think bitcoin should be considered a value reserve.

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin is more than a way to store value.
Right now it is so because there are not any real use cases for it in our real gold, thus people hodl bitcoin and wait for it to become mainstream. Its feature may change in the future as the usage of it changes through time.

Shenzou

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

In theory use, bitcoin similar to gold have a limited supply and a high demand that is ever increasing, and for bitcoin once all of the supply is limited the price is going to keep increasing, and it will become a rare thing to have, bitcoin as you said could make a change in the world, but there are people who are in their interest that bitcoin stays the way it is and falls down and perch, people who have the power lack vision and they only make decision based on their interest and not the world, but time only is capable of changing this so we have to keep supporting it.

otong

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

all possibilities can occur and no one can ascertain the future and what happens in technological progress and progress can happen and the development of the crypto currency depends on its own investors

neonshium

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Quote from: yusupjatigumilar on May 18, 2019, 07:36:32 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

With the current state of bitcoin, it is possible for bitcoin to operate two identities, the first is as a store of value making it a digital gold that the value keeps appreciating over time, and with the help of segwit being implemented into the crypto space, it is even now possible to use bitcoin as a means of payment for transactions carried out even to the least, like purchasing of coffee, this can be done via the use of lightning network.

snipie

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The price of bitcoin is directly not reserved, but the increasingly overloaded supply and demand activities that make bitcoin valuable. In the future, it is not impossible that bitcoin can have a very high value, we can see when Bitcoin was first created and used to buy pizza with 10,000 btc, but now with that amount we can buy a pizza factory. in the future it will also be more than that.

From les than 1 dollar to more than $18k, well, %18000 rise ? Imagine someone having more than 100 bitcoin that time and now! And imagine the same thing happening in the future once the price rise to 6 digits. Bitcoin is the most valuable investment ever happened. It is better than gold that was used as a reserve...

yusupjatigumilar

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The price of bitcoin is directly not reserved, but the increasingly overloaded supply and demand activities that make bitcoin valuable. In the future, it is not impossible that bitcoin can have a very high value, we can see when Bitcoin was first created and used to buy pizza with 10,000 btc, but now with that amount we can buy a pizza factory. in the future it will also be more than that.

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Quote from: Kakmakr on May 14, 2019, 02:33:45 AM

What are we talking about here?

An asset valuation reserve is capital required to be set aside in order to cover a company against unexpected debt. The asset valuation reserve serves as a backup for equity and credit losses. A reserve will have capital gains or losses credited or debited against the reserve account. Source : https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/asset-valuation-reserve-avr.asp

or

A store of value is the function of an asset that can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved. More generally, a store of value is anything that retains purchasing power into the future. Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value

I do not know if you have your description 100% correct for the question you are asking. Huh

I believe the op is talking about the store of value, since the text refers to gold for comparison. I think that it is actually the mist realistic scenario for Bitcoin. Yeah, sure, we want it to be digital money. But the fees and the speed really make it not very suitable for the role, except for the cases of rare expensive purchases. Bitcoin seems to be great for long-term investments, so this will probably become its dominant purpose in the future, if it is not so already.

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Quote from: add1ct3dd on May 17, 2019, 06:12:41 AM

Quote from: eternalgloom on May 16, 2019, 04:17:22 AM

Well, if it couldn't change the world, then we wouldn't have people like this trying to make Bitcoin illegal:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-rep-sherman-calls-for-crypto-ban-says-it-threatens-to-diminish-american-power

According to him, Bitcoin is a threat to the US in a number of ways.
Here's a quote from him (from the article above):

Quote

Sherman concluded by claiming that the end result of cryptocurrencies would be not only to disempower U.S. foreign policy, but also the country’s tax collection and traditional law enforcement — and thus to utterly transform both the domestic and the global status quo.

Bitcoin is just a threat to them because we see how bitcoin is doing it and overpowering in all over the world. We might conduct such things like not to fall for them, its fascinating how bitcoin doing it.

Funny enough, the only power they have over bitcoin is to use media and news to create strong FUD news about bitcoin because there is nothing that U.S can really do to stop cryptocurrency, technology wise and even governmental wise.

Cryptocurrency technology has made it impossible for them to know who the users of crypto are for them to prosecute them and some countries has already legalized bitcoin and using them as payment processor for their companies. SO if US want to stop their citizens from using crypto, then they might have to block their own access to internet permanently.

el kaka22

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Wouldn't that be amazing? I mean think about countries having bitcoin reserves, even if the national money that you use loses its value the bitcoin reserves the nation has could be used to cover that expense and sell it, I know it is not that easy to do but in the end they could potentially could do it slowly and increase it a bit. For example the taxes they charge from the people who do bitcoin related stuff could be used to buy bitcoin or even charge bitcoin to those people and save it aside.

Bitcoin taxes are brand new thing and wouldn't be missed so if people do something related to crypto and have to pay taxes on it then governments should take it as crypto currency and put it on a governmental safe and lock it there until there is a nation wide Venezuela like inflation in which case it could be used to sell and recover the economy.

add1ct3dd

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Quote from: eternalgloom on May 16, 2019, 04:17:22 AM

Well, if it couldn't change the world, then we wouldn't have people like this trying to make Bitcoin illegal:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-rep-sherman-calls-for-crypto-ban-says-it-threatens-to-diminish-american-power

According to him, Bitcoin is a threat to the US in a number of ways.
Here's a quote from him (from the article above):

Quote

Sherman concluded by claiming that the end result of cryptocurrencies would be not only to disempower U.S. foreign policy, but also the country’s tax collection and traditional law enforcement — and thus to utterly transform both the domestic and the global status quo.

Bitcoin is just a threat to them because we see how bitcoin is doing it and overpowering in all over the world. We might conduct such things like not to fall for them, its fascinating how bitcoin doing it.

RealMalatesta

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Quote from: loopes on May 15, 2019, 10:14:21 AM

Quote from: pushups44 on May 14, 2019, 10:13:06 AM

Quote from: loopes on May 15, 2019, 10:14:21 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

The answer to this is obvious: yes. Since bitcoin is a mathematically founded protocol with a predictable rate of inflation and built-in scarcity, it acts as a store of value. Bitcoin is also more portable than gold and is more difficult for outside governments to confiscate or place sanctions on.

Although bitcoin is more portable than gold but gold still better than bitcoin. Both are very worthy. Bitcoin has many advantages that will help many people. It can become currency and asset at the same time, the value of it is tend to rise. Bitcoin theoritically is appropriate as a store of a value, it has limited amount, uncounterfeited, fast in term of transaction and many more but since there are many hoarders or what we call whales who influence it price in the market then for now it risk become bigger.

When you said gold is still better than bitcoin, to me I expected you to list out all the reasons why you think gold is better than bitcoin, but after reading the remaining part of your comment, what you statement fully interpret to me is that Bitcoin benefits far outweighs that of gold which makes it better than gold.

Bitcoin is just at its early stage for now, it’s just barely 10 years old, while gold is almost over a thousand years old now, and everyone knows that bitcoin is yet to fulfill that aspect of its benefits of having it as store of value because of its high volatility, but in future, bitcoin become far more better than gold when the rice becomes stable.

slaman29

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Although bitcoin is more portable than gold but gold still better than bitcoin. Both are very worthy. Bitcoin has many advantages that will help many people. It can become currency and asset at the same time, the value of it is tend to rise. Bitcoin theoritically is appropriate as a store of a value, it has limited amount, uncounterfeited, fast in term of transaction and many more but since there are many hoarders or what we call whales who influence it price in the market then for now it risk become bigger.

Bitcoin is not just more portable than gold, it's extremely more portable. In fact, I can't think of more extremes. I can carry Bitcoin inside my head if I wanted to (memorize my seed and restore any time I want) so it's like the most extreme comparison you could ever make.

Speaking of counterfeit, we all thought it couldn't happen but BCH/BTG and whatever other fork all showed that even if people counterfeit Bitcoin, it still has value if enough people are tricked.

eternalgloom

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Well, if it couldn't change the world, then we wouldn't have people like this trying to make Bitcoin illegal:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-rep-sherman-calls-for-crypto-ban-says-it-threatens-to-diminish-american-power

According to him, Bitcoin is a threat to the US in a number of ways.
Here's a quote from him (from the article above):

Quote

Sherman concluded by claiming that the end result of cryptocurrencies would be not only to disempower U.S. foreign policy, but also the country’s tax collection and traditional law enforcement — and thus to utterly transform both the domestic and the global status quo.

shinharu10282016

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Quote from: cocoadreamboy on May 13, 2019, 02:44:38 PM

Bitcoin does indeed have a value reserve, but it is probably not what you might think. Over the course of bitcoin there has been repeated investment in 2 categories:

Infrastructure (computing equipment)
Electricity (and operating costs)

In order to make a bitcoin it costs money and the combined investment over time has created a momentum. That investment in infrastructure and electricity is built into the price of bitcoin and always has been. No one makes something for less than what it can be sold for. Here is a picture covering the last 3 years of bitcoin's price over the infrastructure cost and the price floor (infrastructure cost + electricity cost). It is a realtime number that changes based on the hash rate and mining efficiency.

Click on the link to see the image

You can find out more about it here at my website if you like:

https://www.amsinger.org/fundamental-method

Hope I have helped!

So its value reserve depends on the mining community? because as you said

Infrastructure (the computing equipments) are the ASIC people use to mine it. and;

Electricity which is certainly a big part of it. No one can create bitcoin without these two.

loopes

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Quote from: pushups44 on May 14, 2019, 10:13:06 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

The answer to this is obvious: yes. Since bitcoin is a mathematically founded protocol with a predictable rate of inflation and built-in scarcity, it acts as a store of value. Bitcoin is also more portable than gold and is more difficult for outside governments to confiscate or place sanctions on.

Although bitcoin is more portable than gold but gold still better than bitcoin. Both are very worthy. Bitcoin has many advantages that will help many people. It can become currency and asset at the same time, the value of it is tend to rise. Bitcoin theoritically is appropriate as a store of a value, it has limited amount, uncounterfeited, fast in term of transaction and many more but since there are many hoarders or what we call whales who influence it price in the market then for now it risk become bigger.

d1ceplayer

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Quote from: Pamadar on May 14, 2019, 09:24:30 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin has come to stay and in many decades to come, bitcoin will be used as store value or reserve after the adoption rate has become so high, by the time the adoption rate becomes high, it is expected that the price of bitcoin would have almost turned to a stable coin then because of its very low or no volatility in its market.

That would be in the future though, but for now, I doubt if bitcoin is really good to serve as digital gold now, since we are still at its early developmental stage and the market volatility is still very high. So bitcoin serving as digital gold in future could really change the world.

VanDeinsberg12

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on May 14, 2019, 06:36:10 AM

Quote from: carter34 on May 14, 2019, 09:15:36 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin cannot be considered with gold because of instability on the prices and it is not regulated by most of the governments so it will not be used as storage of value.Bitcoin is the first of its kind,its just revolutionary invesntion to make decentralized payment without any hidden costs and it also prone to inflation,but ist demand and supply will cause swing on the prices in future as well.

The volatility makes it hard to consider as a good reserved, unlike gold where most government already recognized its value and even there's certain mobility
it's not that much like how bitcoin did, the sway makes it different as it's give opportunities, maybe after some more years when every government accept this system and recognized it's worth.

But when you are seeing bitcoin from its utility and that will better compared with the gold, did you know where gold gets its value? some people think the value of gold comes from its art and there was another guy that think the value of gold comes from elements that contained by the gold itself. Basically bitcoin contains the utility usage and that will be more valuable.
The volatility just usual thing. it caused by bitcoin used its utility to create demand and supply to create value but that's not a big problem.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on May 14, 2019, 06:36:10 AM

Quote from: Pamadar on May 14, 2019, 09:24:30 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin cannot be considered with gold because of instability on the prices and it is not regulated by most of the governments so it will not be used as storage of value.Bitcoin is the first of its kind,its just revolutionary invesntion to make decentralized payment without any hidden costs and it also prone to inflation,but ist demand and supply will cause swing on the prices in future as well.

But I think we can refer to it as a reserve if we take a look at what has happened to price since this month. Investors who have held their coin bought since January have had double on what they have.

As for being a digital gold, I also think it is of that nature because it is digital and maybe can't just fit into physical gold and its stability at the moment.

Nah,just because of it is giving profits doesn't mean it will be similar to gold and can be called as digital gold.When we want something to be used as storage of value then it should have same value always like gold but bitcoin has up and down and we still don't know how long it is going to stay here.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

The volatility makes it hard to consider as a good reserved, unlike gold where most government already recognized its value and even there's certain mobility

Gold is also prone to market volatility and in fact the volatility of gold is much more than bitcoin. Bitcoins volatility is often time dependent - certain trends tend to push up the price like an positive feedback cycle and gold tend to vary between points in a known amplitude. There is a lot of difference between the two and they are not comparable in terms of government reserves.

Quote

it's not that much like how bitcoin did, the sway makes it different as it's give opportunities, maybe after some more years when every government accept this system and recognized it's worth.

You can keep that idea aside. Governments would rarely if ever accept crypto unless they are a failing economy like Venezuela. Rest of the countries dont even care about what happens with crypto unless some big institution in that country comes up with a demand.

pushups44

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on May 14, 2019, 06:36:10 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

The answer to this is obvious: yes. Since bitcoin is a mathematically founded protocol with a predictable rate of inflation and built-in scarcity, it acts as a store of value. Bitcoin is also more portable than gold and is more difficult for outside governments to confiscate or place sanctions on.

Pamadar

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on May 14, 2019, 06:36:10 AM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin cannot be considered with gold because of instability on the prices and it is not regulated by most of the governments so it will not be used as storage of value.Bitcoin is the first of its kind,its just revolutionary invesntion to make decentralized payment without any hidden costs and it also prone to inflation,but ist demand and supply will cause swing on the prices in future as well.

The volatility makes it hard to consider as a good reserved, unlike gold where most government already recognized its value and even there's certain mobility
it's not that much like how bitcoin did, the sway makes it different as it's give opportunities, maybe after some more years when every government accept this system and recognized it's worth.

carter34

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Quote from: cocoadreamboy on May 13, 2019, 02:44:38 PM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin cannot be considered with gold because of instability on the prices and it is not regulated by most of the governments so it will not be used as storage of value.Bitcoin is the first of its kind,its just revolutionary invesntion to make decentralized payment without any hidden costs and it also prone to inflation,but ist demand and supply will cause swing on the prices in future as well.

But I think we can refer to it as a reserve if we take a look at what has happened to price since this month. Investors who have held their coin bought since January have had double on what they have.

As for being a digital gold, I also think it is of that nature because it is digital and maybe can't just fit into physical gold and its stability at the moment.

slaman29

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Bitcoin does indeed have a value reserve, but it is probably not what you might think. Over the course of bitcoin there has been repeated investment in 2 categories:

Infrastructure (computing equipment)
Electricity (and operating costs)

Interesting arguments and good information, whether or not anyone can agree with you.

Personally, I see the same two things also getting increase of investment with other crypto apart from Bitcoin so I think computing/mining and operating costs are the same for all crypto. But for Bitcoin specifically, I think it actually doesn't get as much repeat investment as other coins in terms of security measures or even testing of new tech. Investment of time and dedicated devs yes, but nobody gets paid for that. That to me, is a very interesting aspect of Bitcoin as a value reserve because lack of financial measure makes things even more intangible.

jrrsparkles

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Bitcoin cannot be considered with gold because of instability on the prices and it is not regulated by most of the governments so it will not be used as storage of value.Bitcoin is the first of its kind,its just revolutionary invesntion to make decentralized payment without any hidden costs and it also prone to inflation,but ist demand and supply will cause swing on the prices in future as well.

Lumi3004

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

Nothing is impossible for the internet and digital world, bitcoin is made, digital gold, I think this could happen in 2050, where everyone has mastered the internet in transactions such as bitcoin and other crypto.

cryptjh

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Bitcoins is with its limited supply already a good store of value, each bitcoins halving brings the yearly supply inflations down and the next halving, just a year from now will bring the bitcoin inflations down under the major fiat currency's supply inflations.
With the missing trust in the fiat system, we will see more people moving some of there wealth into bitcoins.

jseverson

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It could be. A lot of people already use it as such. Bitcoin seems to be much more popular for its HODL potential than its actual utility as a spendable currency after all.

What do you mean by deterministic sense? Either way, it has already changed the world by birthing an entirely new asset class, and could change the world even further, depending on how adoption plays out. The end game, or in my opinion at least, is for it to be well established enough to serve as a reserve currency a la USD.

n0ne

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It is a store of value further when it got more usage automatically it got some form of transition. With that users started to make bitcoin compared to gold. Bitcoin being virtual has got value same as gold but now the same is being added to the list of taxable commodities same as gold in some countries. We cannot experience a wholesome change in a short, possibly little by little we will see advancement through technology.

Kakmakr

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What are we talking about here?

An asset valuation reserve is capital required to be set aside in order to cover a company against unexpected debt. The asset valuation reserve serves as a backup for equity and credit losses. A reserve will have capital gains or losses credited or debited against the reserve account. Source : https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/asset-valuation-reserve-avr.asp

or

A store of value is the function of an asset that can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved. More generally, a store of value is anything that retains purchasing power into the future. Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Store_of_value

I do not know if you have your description 100% correct for the question you are asking. Huh

Adriano2010

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You reffer if hold and store money on bitcoin is like storing money for reserve and can get money anytime back, but bitcoin is volatile and not works like to storing money and get back when want but work similar to gold and here i reffer to price.

davis196

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Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

I totally don't understand what you are trying to ask.What do you mean by "value reserve" and "deterministic sense"?Bitcoin is a store of value,I guess that this is what you call value reserve.I don't think that this feature of bitcoin will change the world,as bitcoin is just one of the many financial assets that can work as a store of value.The world's progress isn't determined,so I don't get what you are trying to say by "deterministic sense".

CryptoBry

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The idea that Bitcoin can change the world is for me an overstretch already. Certainly, Bitcoin is very valuable both as a currency and a store of value and we are seeing it now in terms of price and adoption. Certainly, Bitcoin can be bringing in many changes especially in the world of finance and economics and we are going to experience these innovations as years roll by. Bitcoin just like the fiat money can be a big tool for change but changing the world can take a lot of time, effort, money and the cooperation of the people and those holding in the power in the government. It would be safe to say that Bitcoin can contribute to many changes...but expecting that this can be the one to make it alone may not be true.

dothebeats

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For some people, it already is a great value reserve and serving other purposes aside from what was mentioned. I'm not so sure about 'deterministic sense' though the past cycles of bitcoin suggest that we are always heading north (if that makes any sense) but still, not in a definite fashion/manner. Anyway, it is now changing the financial world in ways one can only imagine back then, and I think that's more important more than anything else, and a subtle break from the constraints of banks helped some nations, too.

rizkyhiw

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Quote from: sheenshane on May 13, 2019, 04:38:00 PM

Because could bitcoin represents a value reserve or acts as a "digital gold", really could it change the world in a deterministic sense?

It could be a thought that can change the world, little does not make sense to me personally because all innovations that exist today cannot be good shortcuts for the world, perhaps more precisely for people or companies that use crypto as their business builds, like a small example, everyone who enters the crypto world is better for some people who diligently do it because everyone involved cannot be economically resolved because crypto is at high risk, don't think too much about crypto who wants it, the opportunity is still wide open for change the world.

Ailmand

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It couldn't change the entire world's situation but it has a big impact on the economic growth of the world market as it provides financial freedom to every user. Bitcoin is multifunctional and it benefits a lot of people around the globe. Its vital role is now a part of our necessity.

cocoadreamboy

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We are not able to tell. However, the cryptocurrency is the only digital asset we could expect to be a long term one. There are a lot of digital assets. Like online game coins, memberships and so on. However, those things are really small stuff compared to bitcoin.

For now, cryptocurrencies are the most effective alternative asset in the world, but I don't really see it as a thing to replace gold. Because gold will always be gold and it is a physical and modifiable asset. It is really different.

airline miles might represent a comparable amount of money stored in digital assets vs crypto and btc.

Bitcoin is more easily convertible into other assets than gold is. Bitcoin in my mind is significantly better than gold because you can't take $11,000 of gold onto a plane, but you can take millions of dollars in bitcoin anywhere you like.

sheenshane

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We are not able to tell. However, the cryptocurrency is the only digital asset we could expect to be a long term one. There are a lot of digital assets. Like online game coins, memberships and so on. However, those things are really small stuff compared to bitcoin.

For now, cryptocurrencies are the most effective alternative asset in the world, but I don't really see it as a thing to replace gold. Because gold will always be gold and it is a physical and modifiable asset. It is really different.

Chikitita2004

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