Is it actually possible to ban P2P networks?

Nefario

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Quote from: mewantsbitcoins on May 07, 2011, 07:02:34 PM

Quote from: Rena on May 07, 2011, 06:56:26 PM

I haven't used Tor or read much about how it works, but I'd heard it's rather poorly designed and has had a few security issues in the past. If that's the case, it's more an example of a system with design flaws that got used against it than a successful blocking of P2P in general.

I heard that the moon is made of cheese

I'm so there.

em3rgentOrdr

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Quote from: wumpus on May 07, 2011, 07:19:54 PM

Quote from: Rena on May 07, 2011, 06:56:26 PM

I haven't used Tor or read much about how it works, but I'd heard it's rather poorly designed and has had a few security issues in the past. If that's the case, it's more an example of a system with design flaws that got used against it than a successful blocking of P2P in general.

It's not poorly designed at all. Tor is very well thought through by some very smart cryptology experts. There are some possible attack angles, but they usually have to do with 3rd party programs revealing your IP address (for example, a Java applet in your web browser), not design flaws in the Tor system itself.

Other attacks are completely academic and require control over the entire internet to work.

There is a lot of panic mongering and mud-throwing around Tor, but of the P2P anonimization programs it is still the most proven of the bunch.

ToR just f8ing works.

wumpus

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No Maps for These Territories

Quote from: Rena on May 07, 2011, 06:56:26 PM

I haven't used Tor or read much about how it works, but I'd heard it's rather poorly designed and has had a few security issues in the past. If that's the case, it's more an example of a system with design flaws that got used against it than a successful blocking of P2P in general.

It's not poorly designed at all. Tor is very well thought through by some very smart cryptology experts. There are some possible attack angles, but they usually have to do with 3rd party programs revealing your IP address (for example, a Java applet in your web browser), not design flaws in the Tor system itself.

Other attacks are completely academic and require control over the entire internet to work.

There is a lot of panic mongering and mud-throwing around Tor, but of the P2P anonimization programs it is still the most proven of the bunch.

mewantsbitcoins

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Quote from: Rena on May 07, 2011, 06:56:26 PM

I haven't used Tor or read much about how it works, but I'd heard it's rather poorly designed and has had a few security issues in the past. If that's the case, it's more an example of a system with design flaws that got used against it than a successful blocking of P2P in general.

I heard that the moon is made of cheese

Rena

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I haven't used Tor or read much about how it works, but I'd heard it's rather poorly designed and has had a few security issues in the past. If that's the case, it's more an example of a system with design flaws that got used against it than a successful blocking of P2P in general.

error

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Quote from: Nefario on May 07, 2011, 04:54:54 AM

To an extent this is the same as providing a VPN service (but lower quality), so the price won't want to be too high. Although I'm not sure, when you set yourself up as a node if you are automatically added to tors list of public nodes or not.

Only bridges are not added to the public list of Tor nodes. Relays and exit nodes are publicly known.

Nefario

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Quote from: em3rgentOrdr on May 07, 2011, 02:42:02 AM

Quote from: Nefario on May 07, 2011, 01:44:23 AM

The problem with Tor is that they give out bridges ip addresses for free, the process of collecting bridge ip's to ban them is fully automated at this point.

Also the Chinese government has far more resources that the Tor project.

If there was a cost to get a bridge ip(especially in bitcoin) then the government couldn't do anything, well they could but it would cost money, money which would be used against them.

very clever...so anyone of us could setup a tor bridge and then sell to chinese for bitcoin!

To an extent this is the same as providing a VPN service (but lower quality), so the price won't want to be too high. Although I'm not sure, when you set yourself up as a node if you are automatically added to tors list of public nodes or not.

wumpus

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No Maps for These Territories

Tor is easier to block because the default install doesn't work as entry node / "bridge".

With a homogeneous P2P network such as Bitcoin it's much harder, as every node can be used as entrance into the system.

em3rgentOrdr

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Quote from: Nefario on May 07, 2011, 01:44:23 AM

The problem with Tor is that they give out bridges ip addresses for free, the process of collecting bridge ip's to ban them is fully automated at this point.

Also the Chinese government has far more resources that the Tor project.

If there was a cost to get a bridge ip(especially in bitcoin) then the government couldn't do anything, well they could but it would cost money, money which would be used against them.

very clever...so anyone of us could setup a tor bridge and then sell to chinese for bitcoin!

Nefario

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The problem with Tor is that they give out bridges ip addresses for free, the process of collecting bridge ip's to ban them is fully automated at this point.

Also the Chinese government has far more resources that the Tor project.

If there was a cost to get a bridge ip(especially in bitcoin) then the government couldn't do anything, well they could but it would cost money, money which would be used against them.

em3rgentOrdr

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Quote from: anisoptera on May 07, 2011, 01:03:26 AM

Quote from: theymos on May 07, 2011, 01:00:45 AM

They also block most bridges

Quote from: anisoptera on May 07, 2011, 12:38:00 AM

So what you're saying is that China doesn't block Tor.

Karma point +1 for you my friend!

anisoptera

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Quote from: theymos on May 07, 2011, 01:00:45 AM

They also block most bridges

Quote from: anisoptera on May 07, 2011, 12:38:00 AM

So what you're saying is that China doesn't block Tor.

theymos

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Quote from: anisoptera on May 07, 2011, 12:38:00 AM

So what you're saying is that China doesn't block Tor.

They also block most bridges, since the Tor bridge distribution method is weak. Tor is pretty difficult to access in China. And this is a project with the goal of providing uncensored Internet -- other projects don't have a chance.

anisoptera

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Quote from: theymos on May 07, 2011, 12:12:20 AM

Tor is blocked in China if you don't use a bridge.

So what you're saying is that China doesn't block Tor.

theymos

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Tor is blocked in China if you don't use a bridge.

Vasili Sviridov

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The only way to fully "ban" a peer-to-peer network is to prevent communication between all of it's nodes.

One of the design goals of the Internet was resilience to such measures. Being able to continue to work as a whole, even if some parts are destroyed or somehow disrupted.

tl;dr - No.

paulie_w

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Okay fair enough but with regard to networks such as Bitcoin, or any of the P2P file sharing networks... ?

BitterTea

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The internet is a peer to peer network.

paulie_w

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Have any countries had any success stopping this -- ever? -- at the routing level?

And what would it mean for Bitcoin if "P2P" were essentially banned?

Topic: Is it actually possible to ban P2P networks? (Read 2265 times)