Is it legal to offer bitcoin to moneypak exchange service?

Bitco

sr. member

Activity: 746

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Quote from: buyer on June 14, 2013, 08:15:14 AM

You are off by a factor of ten, sir.

"(3) Issuer of traveler's checks, money orders, or stored value. An issuer of traveler's checks, money orders, or, stored value (other than a person who does not issue such checks or money orders or stored value in an amount greater than $1,000 in currency or monetary or other instruments to any person on any day in one or more transactions). "

You are again incorrect. You are quoting an outdated version of the regulations, which were revised in 2011. The current version refers to "prepaid access" and not "stored value".

buyer

newbie

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Quote from: Bitco on June 14, 2013, 06:00:07 AM

Quote from: buyer on June 14, 2013, 03:04:35 AM

I think it does require registration. retailers who sell moneypak cards are required to be registered with fincen and these retailers have standards they follow for kyc and aml.

You are incorrect. Retailers selling these types of cards are exempt from registering per 31 CFR 1010.100 (ff)(7) unless they sell more than $10000 to any person on any one day.

You are off by a factor of ten, sir.

"(3) Issuer of traveler's checks, money orders, or stored value. An issuer of traveler's checks, money orders, or, stored value (other than a person who does not issue such checks or money orders or stored value in an amount greater than $1,000 in currency or monetary or other instruments to any person on any day in one or more transactions). "

As I said they all have policies in place to prevent a single customer from acquiring so much "stored value" in one visit... so they can comply with AML and KYC requirements. So then following this regulation if a btc -> moneypak sells more than $1000 per day to ANY customer(s) that site MUST be registered with FinCEN and probably within each state as a money transmitter.

And for these reasons the operator of this btc->moneypak site is registered with FinCEN:
https://www.sellbitcoinforcash.com

AliceWonder

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Quote from: Bitco on June 14, 2013, 06:00:07 AM

Quote from: buyer on June 14, 2013, 03:04:35 AM

I think it does require registration. retailers who sell moneypak cards are required to be registered with fincen and these retailers have standards they follow for kyc and aml.

You are incorrect. Retailers selling these types of cards are exempt from registering per 31 CFR 1010.100 (ff)(7) unless they sell more than $10000 to any person on any one day.

but bitcoin to moneypak is different because it involves an actual exchange of currency.

Bitco

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Merit: 253

Quote from: buyer on June 14, 2013, 03:04:35 AM

I think it does require registration. retailers who sell moneypak cards are required to be registered with fincen and these retailers have standards they follow for kyc and aml.

You are incorrect. Retailers selling these types of cards are exempt from registering per 31 CFR 1010.100 (ff)(7) unless they sell more than $10000 to any person on any one day.

suryc

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Activity: 298

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Play2Live pre-sale starts on January 25th

Quote from: Luciddd on June 06, 2013, 09:29:21 PM

I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.

If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?

It is not illegal, but technically you must register as an MSB with FinCEN based on a conservative interpretation of their most recent guidance. Available here: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html
See the part under " Administrators and Exchangers of Virtual Currency "

Now that being said, there is some debate about exactly how to interpret this and also about the enforceability of this. I imagine we will continue to see new developments on this front.

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more on this forum, but here are two relevant threads:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fincens-new-definition-of-money-services-businesses-30152
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fincen-says-you-must-be-msb-if-you-sell-bitcoins-for-119123

jacktarli

full member

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Why wouldn't it be legal and a lot of people are doing this so who cares Grin

buyer

newbie

Activity: 56

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Quote from: Luciddd on June 06, 2013, 09:29:21 PM

I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.

If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?

I think it does require registration. retailers who sell moneypak cards are required to be registered with fincen and these retailers have standards they follow for kyc and aml. moneypak is a stored value card and as such trading them in certain jurisdictions requires registration. anyone selling moneypak for btc who has not registered with fincen is probably breaking the law.

why are they not caught? nobody has noticed them. In time there will be more regulation and less wild west trading in the bitcoin world. if you are seeking a registered and legal bitcoin -> moneypak solution check the website I built at:
https://www.sellbitcoinforcash.com

Luciddd

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 08, 2013, 12:55:49 PM

Well this escalated quickly....

Quote from: crumbs on June 08, 2013, 06:10:38 AM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 07, 2013, 12:04:15 PM

Is it smart to be asking for legal advice on the Internet? Leaving aside the exact corner you've picked.

If it wasn't, why would the "Legal" section even exist? O, I see wat u did their.

-W.E. Coyote, Esq.

Plz not to troll the OP. A lot of sources are better than one source and no amount of schooling can make you a legalist or w/e it's called. A bunch of people gathering around a keg and chanting is the way to go.

Tbh I kinda enjoy the new America.

You apparently miss the point. Roll Eyes

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 08, 2013, 12:55:49 PM

Well this escalated quickly....

Quote from: crumbs on June 08, 2013, 06:10:38 AM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 07, 2013, 12:04:15 PM

Is it smart to be asking for legal advice on the Internet? Leaving aside the exact corner you've picked.

If it wasn't, why would the "Legal" section even exist? O, I see wat u did their.

-W.E. Coyote, Esq.

Plz not to troll the OP. A lot of sources are better than one source and no amount of schooling can make you a legalist or w/e it's called. A bunch of people gathering around a keg and chanting is the way to go.

Tbh I kinda enjoy the new America.

There we go. Without a word of guidance, my domestics cleaned up our mess. BTW, just thought i'd leave this here 'n case anyone's still snoopin' around this thread:
An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency *cough*Google it, buyer, Google it*cough*
-W.E. Coyote, Esq.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Well this escalated quickly....

Quote from: crumbs on June 08, 2013, 06:10:38 AM

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 07, 2013, 12:04:15 PM

Is it smart to be asking for legal advice on the Internet? Leaving aside the exact corner you've picked.

If it wasn't, why would the "Legal" section even exist? O, I see wat u did their.

-W.E. Coyote, Esq.

Plz not to troll the OP. A lot of sources are better than one source and no amount of schooling can make you a legalist or w/e it's called. A bunch of people gathering around a keg and chanting is the way to go.

Tbh I kinda enjoy the new America.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 07, 2013, 12:04:15 PM

Is it smart to be asking for legal advice on the Internet? Leaving aside the exact corner you've picked.

If it wasn't, why would the "Legal" section even exist? O, I see wat u did their.

-W.E. Coyote, Esq.

buyer

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Depends on the state you are in and how you do it. And why in the world would you want to make such a site when an awesome btc 2 moneypak site already exists?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/want-to-buy-btc-want-to-sell-moneypak-out-of-stock-224763

Luciddd

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 07, 2013, 12:04:15 PM

Quote from: Luciddd on June 06, 2013, 09:29:21 PM

I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.

If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?

Is it smart to be asking for legal advice on the Internet? Leaving aside the exact corner you've picked.

Get out of here troll. Advice from a collective source is better from one source, no amount of schooling gives you all the right answers.

Quote from: bitcoinbear on June 07, 2013, 02:28:59 PM

Quote from: Luciddd on June 06, 2013, 09:29:21 PM

I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.

If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?

A better question is why wouldn't it be legal? Do you have to ask for permission for everything, or are you a free person?

Re-read my post and you'll get the answer.

bitcoinbear

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Luciddd on June 06, 2013, 09:29:21 PM

I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.

If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?

A better question is why wouldn't it be legal? Do you have to ask for permission for everything, or are you a free person?

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: Luciddd on June 06, 2013, 09:29:21 PM

I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.

If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?

Is it smart to be asking for legal advice on the Internet? Leaving aside the exact corner you've picked.

Luciddd

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I've heard mixed opinions in this area. Any educated opinions on the subject would be appreciated.

If it isn't legal, how are other sites operating without problem?

Topic: Is it legal to offer bitcoin to moneypak exchange service? (Read 2239 times)