Is it possible to know if two+ btc addresses belong to the same wallet?

PaperWallet

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 02, 2019, 10:43:29 AM

As said the title;
Is it possible to know if two or more addresses are related to one wallet? and if from transactions i can figure possible connection (same wallet) between addresses.

I post this here because i think it's a beginner question, no?

I do not know if I really understand your thread. Are you asking if two BTC addresses can belong to one and when someone send coin it will enter all or enter one? If it is like I will strongly say NO because first of all looking from the cell phone numbers, two persons can not own the same number, now if two persons own the number there will be a big problem. When someone call which of the side the call will go is an another issue for the service providers. But if you are talking about wallet not not addresses then I will say YES. Two or more addresses can belong to one wallet. The way I discovered it. one wallet can create more seed phrase and if the wallet can create different seed phrases which they belong to different addresses then one wallet can have more than one address that are related but they would receive different transactions even at the same time.

You're missing the point by a lot. Anyway, this thread was created 3 years ago. I just pumped it up a few days ago to ask a related question, but there is no point in answering in this thread anymore.

pooya87

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Quote from: Fivestar4everMVP on September 10, 2022, 04:23:40 PM

Now, talking about exceptions, I am not a technical person, but I am just imagining that there might be a way, or better put, loophole through which those who have good technical knowledge of wallets (and how they work on the development side of it) might know how to figure out if two or more addresses belong to a single wallet, this I don't know and have not heard of, I am just speculating here, and I hope I am wrong.

Technically it is impossible to know if two addresses are linked (whether from the same wallet or have any connection whatsoever). All we can do and all the blockchain analysis companies do is report the likelihood of it being linked.

For example one thing they do is to speculate which output is the change address (eg. round number is payment, the other is change) and claim that it belongs to the same wallet. But this is speculation and we still can't say for sure. The round output can be the change or it may not even have a change.
Another thing is claiming that inputs of a transaction coming from 2 different addresses links those 2 addresses but again this is speculation. The two people could have joined their inputs to "mix" them.

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 02, 2019, 10:43:29 AM

As said the title;
Is it possible to know if two or more addresses are related to one wallet?

Simple answer to this question is - -

No...

Though there are exceptions, but before I discus the exceptions, let me say that, if it was possible to know that two or more addresses belong to one wallet, then there wouldn't be any need to implement the "automatic generate new address" feature each time transaction is received, which is found in some wallets like coinomi.
And secondly, the generate new address feature also serves as a way to keep a user's privacy since it keeps preying eyes away from knowing the amount of bitcoins that's contained in the wallet, if it was possible to know if two or more addresses belong to one wallet, then again, the generate new address feature will be useless here.

Now, talking about exceptions, I am not a technical person, but I am just imagining that there might be a way, or better put, loophole through which those who have good technical knowledge of wallets (and how they work on the development side of it) might know how to figure out if two or more addresses belong to a single wallet, this I don't know and have not heard of, I am just speculating here, and I hope I am wrong.

o_e_l_e_o

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Further to nc50lc's answer, the public key which is revealed when you spend from an address also cannot be used to generate new child keys, as this process requires something known as the chain code. The chain code is something which is generated from the parent keys, but it is not stored anywhere on the blockchain and is not revealed when you make a transaction; it is only generated and used locally by your wallet software.

PaperWallet

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Quote from: nc50lc on September 10, 2022, 02:14:04 AM

Quote from: PaperWallet on September 10, 2022, 01:58:09 AM

-snip- couldn't that public key be used to generate addresses? Or maybe this public key is different from what they called the "Master key'?

It's different from a wallet's "master public key" (xpub).
The exposed public key from a transaction input is just a child of the xpub key (if it's from an HD wallet)
A child key can't be used to retrieve its parent key, because deriving the child from the parent involves a cryptographic hash function which is irreversible.

Great answer. Thank you

nc50lc

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Quote from: PaperWallet on September 10, 2022, 01:58:09 AM

-snip- couldn't that public key be used to generate addresses? Or maybe this public key is different from what they called the "Master key'?

It's different from a wallet's "master public key" (xpub).
The exposed public key from a transaction input is just a child of the xpub key (if it's from an HD wallet)
A child key can't be used to retrieve its parent key, because deriving the child from the parent involves a cryptographic hash function which is irreversible.

PaperWallet

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I've read through this thread and I still have one question: Isn't it that when you spend from an address, that a public key gets exposed? couldn't that public key be used to generate addresses? Or maybe this public key is different from what they called the "Master key'?

keychainX

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 02, 2019, 10:43:29 AM

As said the title;
Is it possible to know if two or more addresses are related to one wallet? and if from transactions i can figure possible connection (same wallet) between addresses.

I post this here because i think it's a beginner question, no?

Just from the transaction, depending on how you execute the transactions and if you use any interpolating xfers, maybe.

If you created a wallet from a seed, and use different addresses from that seed, and someone, lets say law enforcement gets your seed,
then yes, they can prove the different addys are connected.

/KX

Pmalek

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Quote from: elda34b on April 10, 2019, 08:07:39 PM

If users want complete privacy, then they should never touch exchanges that require KYC and maybe just use privacy oriented coins instead of pseudo-anonymous coins like BTC.

It is hard to find a respected exchange that doesn't require any sort of KYC. Traders usually want low fees and enough liquidity and no bot trading as well.
Binance for example allows withdrawals up to 5 BTC in a 24 hour period and for most traders that can be enough. But it is kind of difficult to get listed there and expensive.
You are left with DEX solutions like IDEX where new erc-20 projects list as their first exchange.

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on April 04, 2019, 01:32:03 PM

Which is quite freaking dangerous when you think about it. I have no idea if Chipmixer isn't controlled by the CIA, serving as a huge honeypot.

That would be an interesting story to tell. Imagine one of the best mixers are actually your own government.

If users want complete privacy, then they should never touch exchanges that require KYC and maybe just use privacy oriented coins instead of pseudo-anonymous coins like BTC.

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 04, 2019, 09:05:04 AM

Quote from: Potato Chips on April 02, 2019, 06:21:30 PM

And there's also a growing number of analysis tools and services that could provide particular data which saves time and effort. I think the most used right now is walletexplorer.com which does address grouping.

May be this is what am really looking to understand, after know that it's not possible to link addresses, so what's it's all about those analysis tools and what help for?

Ofcourse it is. Every bitcoin is coming from somewhere.

Unless you use some sort of mixer, there is a really big chance certain tools, (especially from FVEY Five Eyes) can trace your Bitcoin from where you currently stored it, to where you first bought it, which date, which exchange, which payment method you used.

*Almost* every exchange nowadays requires KYC, and has your banking info. it's really a myth that bitcoin offers any privacy at all when used against the government without proper measures as i described above.

As i said, a mixer breaks this chain. But yeah, if the mixer is controlled by the group described above, it's not of much help. (Which could be the case for any mixer really, we simply don't know who's behind them.)
Which is quite freaking dangerous when you think about it. I have no idea if Chipmixer isn't controlled by the CIA, serving as a huge honeypot.

Anyway.

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 02, 2019, 10:43:29 AM

As said the title;
Is it possible to know if two or more addresses are related to one wallet? and if from transactions i can figure possible connection (same wallet) between addresses.

I post this here because i think it's a beginner question, no?

From the context of what you just posted, with just looking at the transaction details, observing the change addresses help. However if you want to analyze 1 address from 1 random-picked address and determine whether they came from the same wallet? I don't think that will be pretty easy to do, or perhaps even make sense at all.

Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 04, 2019, 09:05:04 AM

so what's it's all about those analysis tools and what help for?

Analysis tools are usually for following the 'trail' to which the coins are sent to, and are used mostly for nabbing criminals and people who use bitcoins for bad intentions. It can also help in linking a connection in between different addresses, though knowing whether the addresses came from a single wallet? I don't think so.

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 04, 2019, 09:05:04 AM

so what's it's all about those analysis tools and what help for?

Those tools (like walletexplorer.com) simply analyse transactions inputs. If a given transaction has many addresses as inputs then it will assume they belong to the same wallet, which is not always true (coinjoin transactions made by some wallets like Wasabi can be a good counterexample).

Yara1

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Yes it possible to know if two bitcoin address belongs to the same wallet there are tool that I design for that. And some members of this forum with good skill make use of that tool from time to time to trace the ownership of addresses when the need arise.

Kavelj22

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Quote from: Potato Chips on April 02, 2019, 06:21:30 PM

And there's also a growing number of analysis tools and services that could provide particular data which saves time and effort. I think the most used right now is walletexplorer.com which does address grouping.

May be this is what am really looking to understand, after know that it's not possible to link addresses, so what's it's all about those analysis tools and what help for?

cryptjh

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 02, 2019, 10:43:29 AM

As said the title;
Is it possible to know if two or more addresses are related to one wallet? and if from transactions i can figure possible connection (same wallet) between addresses.

I post this here because i think it's a beginner question, no?

No one should be able to see if you are the owner of the addresses in the same wallet, as long as you don't mix output from those addresses with each other. And as long as the bitcoin didn't come from the same addresses before they ended in the addresses you have them in now.

I would not be surprised to see that some of those addresses with 10,000 bitcoins are to be found in the same wallet. But as long as the owner doesn't mix the coins no one but the owner of the wallet will ever know.

https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

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Quote from: Crypto Girl on April 03, 2019, 02:43:48 AM

Quote from: crwth on April 02, 2019, 06:39:20 PM

I have seen in wallet explorers that a lot of the transactions has the “change” address. Like the left overs of a certain wallet going to the part where you also own it. I’m not sure if every “change” address in a certain transaction is correct but I think it could be possible but not 100% certainty.

I second this, it's more likely the Unspent Transaction Outputs or UTXOs.

You can read it here, it's actually a good article from coinsutra.
What Are Unspent Transaction Outputs (UTXOs)?

I think it's safe to assume that it comes in the same wallet (same phrases etc), right?

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Quote from: crwth on April 02, 2019, 06:39:20 PM

I have seen in wallet explorers that a lot of the transactions has the “change” address. Like the left overs of a certain wallet going to the part where you also own it. I’m not sure if every “change” address in a certain transaction is correct but I think it could be possible but not 100% certainty.

I second this, it's more likely the Unspent Transaction Outputs or UTXOs.

You can read it here, it's actually a good article from coinsutra.
What Are Unspent Transaction Outputs (UTXOs)?

crwth

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I have seen in wallet explorers that a lot of the transactions has the “change” address. Like the left overs of a certain wallet going to the part where you also own it. I’m not sure if every “change” address in a certain transaction is correct but I think it could be possible but not 100% certainty.

khaled0111

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I think you are referring to addresses generated by a deterministic wallet from the same seed. If so, then the answer is no (please correct me if I am wrong), there is no way to tell if different addresses are generated from the same seed unless the master public key is revealed.

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And there's also a growing number of analysis tools and services that could provide particular data which saves time and effort. I think the most used right now is walletexplorer.com which does address grouping.

CryptoEnthused

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on April 02, 2019, 10:43:29 AM

As said the title;
Is it possible to know if two or more addresses are related to one wallet? and if from transactions i can figure possible connection (same wallet) between addresses.

I post this here because i think it's a beginner question, no?

Yes, it is possible. The most simple example I can think of is this. Suppose you have 1 BTC and you send 0.6 BTC to your friend. In this case, you have a change of 0.4 BTC that goes to your change address, the other 0.6 BTC goes to your friend. Now you have 2 addressess: the first one with 0 BTC and the second one with 0.4 BTC that anyone knows are belong to the same person.

There is another example. Suppose you have many addressess with small amounts of BTC in your wallet. Let's say you have 10 addresses with 0.1 BTC each. But you need to send 0.91 BTC to your friend. In this case all your 0.1 amounts are gathered in 1 transaction and sent to your freind's address. Everyone will see that you used 10 addresses to complete that transaction. You will also receive 0.09 BTC to your change address which will also be seen in the blockchain. Now everyone will know that those 11 addresses belong to the same person.

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If two addresses both sign a transaction then, with near certainty, both addresses are controlled by the same entity. The addresses may be deposit addresses to a business so a customer that provides the address to send bitcoin to may not control both addresses.

There are some instances in which two people/entities will sign one transaction but they are currently rare.

Kavelj22

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As said the title;
Is it possible to know if two or more addresses are related to one wallet? and if from transactions i can figure possible connection (same wallet) between addresses.

I post this here because i think it's a beginner question, no?

Topic: Is it possible to know if two+ btc addresses belong to the same wallet? (Read 597 times)