Topic: Is it possible to "work" as a gambler and live off the profits? (Read 12723 times)

Bonus whoring was the best thing ever -- the casinos even had automated blackjack to play for you.

You probably also remember casino bonuses, if you exploited them, or as the term was, "bonus whoring."  When Internet gambling was a novelty (and to some extent to this day), there were often lucrative deposit bonuses which you'd get and then be able to turn into real money by giving a certain amount of action or "playthrough."  Like for 20x playthrough with a $1,000 bonus, you'd have to give the house $20,000 in betting action.  So any game with a house edge lower than 5% is an expected profit.  However, many casinos have stopped being so generous with these offers, or specifically exclude the low house edge games like blackjack, video poker, etc. from deposit bonuses.  Also, they tend to kick you off for "abusing" the bonus (by making money on it).  I never had any of them refuse to pay on a bonus or confiscate funds, though, even when I got kicked off all the Cryptologic casinos for basically raping the shit out of their bonuses.  This casino network with a lot of sites in it gave a monthly small bonus for a certain amount of play, and one month, I collected it on every site betting the entire playthrough value, something like $500 or so, on a single hand of a 21 variant called Pontoon.  Basically won 10 out of 12 hands and that was enough to wear out their patience.

There's also arbitrage betting, where you find two sportsbooks offering odds such that whatever outcome the sports event has, you still are going to make money even taking out the house vig on both bets.  For some reason, sportsbooks seem a lot faster to kick you off for advantage play, though, and then arbitrage opportunities dry up.  I have also found that in many of these arbitrage situations, one of the sportsbooks majorly screwed up and one of the bets is actually massively +EV.  But since I generally don't know jack about sports, I stuck with the sure things here, usually.

Casino tournaments are also a very lucrative casino opportunity.  In these, which are often partly skill-based games like blackjack but sometimes pure luck games like slots, you buy a certain amount of tournament chips (with no independent value), sort of like in a poker tournament, and it pays off in real money based on how many chips you win in the game play.  This can be winner-take-all or have a pyramid type payout structure with a big first prize and smaller prizes for second place and on.  Since most of the people playing these, other than maybe the blackjack players, are usually just recreational gamblers, it is possible to have an enormous advantage over the field.  

Progressive jackpots are also often a source of +EV bets.  Basically, on every bet on an otherwise losing game like a slot machine, the house takes a drop that then goes into a jackpot that increases in size over time.  So at literally no risk to the house, they get to offer a jackpot that when it gets huge creates a great deal of excitement.  Since these are usually on extremely unlikely events like poker bad beats or some goofy 5 of a kind on a slot machine, these are rarely exploitable by a single player with a normal size bankroll and require some kind of team play to make a regular practice of exploiting.  

Anyway, I've never found enough of these kind of opportunities to be a reliable source of income by itself, since other than bonuses, they're generally occasional events, but they can make a nice change of pace from poker from time to time.  

There are also, of course, rare occasions when a casino accidentally offers action that is favorable to the player.  Obviously, nobody is going to tell you about those if they know them.

I played professional poker for several years up to Black friday.
Thus I can attest from my own experience that it's very possible to make a very healthy living just gambling.

However I only played poker, a game in which I had a clear edge against most of my opponents.
I did play other casino games like roulette, but merely for pleasure. Any claims in this topic of consistently beating regular casino games should be taken with a good grain of salt, as they are definite -EV games. But they can definitely be fun

Well some people get streaks of luck that can last a while in those dice or similar games, sometimes can trick them into thinking they can win forever.  But it won't happen the edge is always with the casino.

When I made this thread I actually had dice games in mind, as I had profited just a bit, but after I made this thread I actually lost about 45 bucks, increasing as the price goes up. I've actually recuperated almost all of it, but certainly was not easy.

During the years when gambling was my largest source of income, I was also lucky enough to have a part-time to full-time job where I could basically choose my own hours and my own work.  So if I was having a bad week (or just sick of it), I could do real work.  Basically, I was in a pool of people who transcribed court and legislative hearings like House of Representatives committee hearings or Social Security disability hearings.  While I had a general policy of never refusing the higher paying overnight assignments to maintain a reputation for being a reliable go-to guy for those, otherwise, I did what I wanted when I wanted.

I kept meticulous records so I could claim every possible deduction and paid self-employment taxes (and anyone who does not is a fool if they have significant gambling income because this kind of income basically begs for a tax audit).  You absolutely have to keep track of losses if you want to itemize them as deductions, and if you don't, you end up in the awful position of owing taxes on all your winnings while being able to deduct none of your losses.  (I once knew a poker player who went around to the horse track to pick up losing tickets for this purpose, but I personally wouldn't recommend breaking the law.)

There is also the option, for a winning player who is not approaching it as a business, of reporting it as some kind of hobby income.  The law is actually somewhat unclear on how to go about this.

So that is yet another issue about gambling as a profit-making activity.  You can beat the house rake and still end up getting screwed by the much scarier government rake.  A Vegas loan shark has nothing on the IRS.  (I would actually use slightly unfavorable accounting methods and overpay on the gambling-related income.  The purpose of this is that if they did audit me, they'd end up owing me money, and if they ever did it again, I could warn them at the outset that fucking with me would again result in them owing ME money and do you really want to do that?  Apparently, my paper was legit because they never did.)

Anyway, yet another unglamorous reality issue with gambling for a living.  At the end of the tax year, you end up with tax returns that you can't even pay an accountant to do because they're such a nightmare.

True, true... There are worst reasons. Still, I think having part-time employment during this time would be best under the circumstances.

No.  And a professional gambler who is actually a professional does not do this.  He depends on his livelihood for a very lengthy series of rolls of the dice to tend toward average as the convergence of random variables basically breaks even.


Of course, you might have a resume so spotty that being a professional gambler is actually much better as an explanation for holes in your resume than even worse reasons you didn't have a job.

Beats prison, I suppose.

unfortunately NO, it will works if you are the house
because the house allways make profit of it, gambling just for fun only
IMHO

I am personal friends with one of the characters depicted in that movie, and he is still doing it in different nuances. In recent years he frequents Mohegan Sun/Foxwoods and cleans the casino for 20-25k every time he goes. When they visit Vegas, they play Baccarat and abuse the comps programs to get suites and dinners on the house, then they hit the bj tables for 2-3 days and take off with a lot of money every single time. They go once every 4-5 months. I can honestly say he is one freaking successful gambler. He can beat any blackjack game that has up to 6 decks in use in his sleep. And I know that there are at least 3-4 others around him that have a similar skillset and success rate.

Safest to do it part time as a supplement to your income so you have something else to fall back on and don't have a 5 year gap in your working resume.
Would be pretty hard to explain what you were doing in between in a job interview.

Honestly, do you want to depend your livelihood on a throw of the dice? Also, say you are successful but then something changes and you have a string of bad luck.. How do you put that on your resume?

I think you can "grind" almost everything, even games of chance. But how patient are you? Unless you have a huge starting bankroll, it might be a better idea to do a different kind of investment (go gamble on asic mining companies for example).

And if you do have a huge bankroll, then it might be better to invest it in a real company (real stocks, NASDAQ, NYSE, Wall Street, Fortune 500, etc.) or real estate.

Only sharks make a living gambling. 

It is possible to grind out an income with sports betting, but even then you will experience swings from time to time where you run hot or cold.
You can also make some money using matched betting to take advantage of free bet offers using a bookie and an exchange, but those will eventually dry up after you have made ~700-1k in profit. Not something that would sustain you long term.
You can also try arbing, but like others mentioned, you can get your account limited by many bookies if you just use them for arbing or leveraging their free bets.

Games that don't have a "house"... or are PvP that involve at least a little bit of skill, where you can bet the winner (or loser.) ... some card games, shooting games, chess, ...

In games of "pure" chance, the house usually wins in the long term. Statistically speaking. But you can beat it in the short term. If you get a lucky streak. It does happen.

My Grandfather made a living as a young man as a professional gambler. But it was in poker, a game of skill. I guess he made sure that his skill was better than his opponents' skill.

Would say that 2 could include any events betting, sports is the most popular type.

I'll note again that with regard to Rounders, the only character in that movie any professional gambler should emulate is Joey Knish, not the Matt Damon character.  Also, balls have NOTHING to do with it.  In fact, it is absolutely to the contrary.  You have to avoid those "ballsy" bets like the plague.  Your bets should be based solely on an evaluation of the edge related to the percentage of your bankroll it will take to make it.  Are the numbers right?  Make it.  Are they not?  Don't.  Period.

"Don't got the stones? You ignorant punk. I play for money. I owe rent. Child support. I play for money, not the fuckin' world series on ESPN."  Joey Knish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7NxEj4A1Cg <-- full scene.  Only worthwhile gambling advice ever given in a gambling movie.

For an "insider's perspective" of the movie "21" see http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/21-movie-truth-and-fiction/

I'd highly discourage anyone from pursuing gambling as anything other than an occasional pastime; it is a fool's errand to do otherwise.

You should watch The Gambler, with James Caan. Also High Roller, the Stu Unger story. 21 is a good movie, Rounders too.  They all resemble the life of the lifetime gamblers in different nuances. If you think you have the balls to handle such a life, then gambling as a profession is for you.

I would say no, in almost every case. Gamers who appear to be successful- flashy players or those that win big tournaments occasionally- often have big bankrolls behind them and actually lose a lot more than they win. I've known a few such players, and the reality is sometimes quite sad. It seems the media is partly responsible for creating this image of the "successful gambler", since they show us the 0.0001% of players who win big tournaments consistently. I'm talking about poker of course.

Gaming should be for entertainment only.

you should always gamble for fun and not to survive! We offer an Affiliate Program at www.satoshisroulette.com in which you can make some extra money beside playing! 

Poker is a gamble on your mentality.

If you gamble, be sure you will end up being a loser one day. Winning today just means that you will be a bigger loser tomorrow. My advice to you try not to gamble much, and its better to stay totally away from gambling! why? Cause its not really about money, its not even about winning or losing, its all about psychology and persisly brain chemistry, that would keep pulling you back to continue gambling, and your brain will become more addicted to it the more you win or even the more you lose.

I see no discernible difference between them and other card games played for money, at least in terms of the legal analysis, but I have never heard of law enforcement actually prosecuting them as gambling.

Let us not forget MtGox's past.

Are table top collectible card games considered gambling? There are tournaments for Mech Warrior, Pokemon, Justice League or Marvel or DC comic characters, and of course, Magic The Gathering. Prize money involved.

I guess this thread is a candidate to become a sticky topic if we go further discussing it...

I want to play scrabble now.

I actually recently discovered that there are even professional Scrabble players who make a living doing it.  Yes, there are tournaments that pay money.  And yes, there are even cheating scandals.

It's about as possible as working as a professional chess player or golf player and living off the profits -- possible, but not easy. But make no mistake: poker is a game of skill, easy to learn but difficult to master.

Anyone who actually recommends gambling as a profession is selling some scam system.

Even those who sell something like the essential book on professional gambling, Gambling for a Living by Sklansky and Malmuth, I strongly suspect are earning more now selling books through Two Plus Two than they ever did gambling.  Neither of those two have, so far as I know, ever been seen at the Big Game in Bobby's Room.  That book is definitely essential if someone is insane or stupid enough actually to want to be a professional gambler.

There are, indeed, a few people who make a lot of money doing this stuff.  Emphasis on few.  But if you walk down the Las Vegas Strip and look at those buildings, they didn't build themselves.  They don't call it "Lost Wages" for nothing.  It is also the suicide capital of the United States, by far.  I don't think anyone sane would claim the fact that it is also the gambling capital of the United States is a coincidence.

To anyone considering gambling as a profession, even someone with the skills and talent actually to do it, consider, if you have a job, how disappointed you are to see your paycheck every week, or at least look it up online with your bank (hey I grew up when you actually got a check on paper).  Now, imagine that you didn't work 40 or even 60 but instead 80 hours, and not only don't you have a check, but you actually lost money.  Imagine this going on for weeks or months. 

Now, there's certainly fun parts, such as when you go on a hot streak and every single bet goes right, and you make more in a week than you ever made in a year, and this also goes on for weeks or months.

But no.  Seriously (to answer again the question of the OP), while it IS possible to gamble for a living, EVEN if you have the skill to do it (and you probably don't), DON'T do it.  Unless you really, really want to.

I think a better question is, "is it possible to gamble profitably?"  The answer to that is definitely yes, and if you aren't depending on it for a living, and finding edges and beating other people and beating your OWN mental weaknesses is fun to you, do it.  Poker especially has a lot of lessons to teach about how other people think and how their actions connect to how they think, and to your own mental weaknesses, and if you learn those lessons, you get paid!  Poker, while it contains life lessons, as a life is a black hole as life itself is concerned.  Stay away from the event horizon.

Short answer - yes it's possible - but generally only in paramutual or skill based gambling/wagering.  There are certainly professional poker players and horseplayers - but any talk of 'winning systems' for roulette and other pure luck based games are nonsense.

The other reality is - generally anyone who has both the intelligence and mentality to be a successful longterm gambler could earn substantially more and safer in a routine job or other sort of investment.  I personally scraped out about $15,000USD profit a year in the late 90s playing the horses before I realized that I was making about $0.75 an hour when all the work I was putting in was considered.  It was fun and educational, but ultimately I decided I could have fun playing horses but not reasonably support myself.  I still play the horses and am pretty much a breakeven player with just a cursory glance at the form which is fine with me.

TL;dr - professional gambling is either very difficult at best or just a fool's errand at worst

Anyone who really wants to learn about bankroll management, Kelly betting, and making a living at poker should head over to 2+2. These have all been answered over and over there.

My favorite analogy explaining this is if you have seen the movie Rounders, the Matt Damon character is absolutely not who you want to emulate.  The true professional is the character Joey Knish played by John Turturro.  There are a lot of good scenes in this movie, with Ed Norton being a total degenerate and John Malkovic being a villain, but this is the best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7NxEj4A1Cg

It's Joey Knish's advice.  He has previously discussed one of the main rules:  don't lend money to degenerates.  And then he follows his own advice.  This being a Hollywood movie, Matt Damon's character completely ignores it and somehow survives this bullshit.

Developing even further some theoric possibilities, there goes some quotes in order to add more alternatives for "gambling for a living" lifestyle...

P.s. Hey! Don't complain! I've just said it is just THEORY!  

Topic: PROGRESSIVE JACKPOT


That comes right from our ultimate source of "ready-to-implement" knowledge: the almighty Wikipedia.

As already said before: do not gamble what you can't afford to lose!

Best of luck in all your gambling endeavors!

Oh.
Forget about the profits.
Even the miners can't find their profits.

You should be happy if your BTC keep the same value as you purchased.

Just to complement your post, that guy is known as Haralobos Voulgarious Proly. He's just as a legend as Billy Walters himself. They're that tough elite gentlemen on the top 1% sportsbettors.

Damn way to get there IMHO... 

Mining. Some people think of that as gambling. Especially when you talk about brand new ASIC companies, or even old companies that had very difficult FPGA to ASIC transition.

MMORPGs = I used to play EQ1 (aka EverQuest, before EQ2)... on my non-PvP server, I was undefeated in duels. I'd accept challenges from almost anyone (except +/- 6 levels, for fairness). I made a lot of plat that way. Sold a few items for fiat, but never made it a serious income earning activity. I was in, mostly to kill other players. I know a few who made fiat selling plat, selling zenys, selling gold, selling swords of uber power, selling this or that item, in this or that game. Takes a lot of time too. Also people selling accounts or level-up services.

Starcraft = ? I used to play SC1. Would bet against people for fiat. Or for time (if this was in an internet cafe, loser pays the cashier.) I hardly paid. On unfair fights (3 vs 1) I'd lose occasionally, but only if someone had to make a sacrifice first. It's very hard on the fingers, (gotta master the keyboard short cuts, and use a decent mouse.) This is a game of almost pure skill, very little luck. And if people know you are good, won't accept a direct one-on-one challenge. I usually end up in a FFA, where 7 people gang up on me.

So I bet with someone else, that I will be the first to die. I lost the starcraft game. I won the bet. heheheh.

Dice = ? I'm a self-admitted victim of Gambler's Fallacy. Let's not go here. hehehe. It's fun to do a martingale, knowing that I will eventually lose. The gamble is at what point to stop, so here goes all sorts of voodoo and magic and maybe a little math. Kelly, Martin, Utility, whatever you call it. I say, it's just magic.

Have I won? The answer is, ... I'm still working on it.

P.S. Don't gamble what you can't afford to lose.

(non-sober disclaimer)

Micon's making some great points, and anyone who's played poker with a focus on earning consistent profits rather than as a hobby can tell you that to win poker, you grind. It's a nonstop grind. You don't make many "ballsy moves." You fold, you fold, you fold, you fold, you bet and win a little, you fold. Playing poker as a means of consistent income is work. I've played a few games "to win," but it's not much fun. I'd much rather have beer, smokes, and good friends, with poker there to keep our hands and brains occupied while we play. I'd imagine people probably roll their eyes and fall asleep playing Micon outside of major tournaments. When most people think of poker, I think they're thinking of that kind of "personality poker" where people are constantly bluffing and making relatively big wagers like... drunks!

If you enjoy company, alcohol, and relaxation while playing an engaging game, poker's got you. If you want to make a living out of it, you better fucking love repetition, studying the game, and have excellent self-discipline. You may actually be better off grinding video game items, currencies, and character levels (as a matter of fact, I made some tidy sums in high school!). MMORPGs, incidentally, have a lot of the same things going on as in poker, and a lot of the same costs/rewards depending on how seriously you take earning revenue from it. Earning the most valued stuff in MMORPGs is boring as ass. For example, in traditional MMORPGs, this is raiding -- for something like EVE, it's something horrible like corp. mining events, where you're expected to have a regular schedule including carting minerals back and forth between certain times the entire group agrees on - and if you're late, they may well kick you out (this occurs with "raiding" on traditional MMORPGs, too). OTOH, having fun, such as through PvP, where there's a dynamic challenge, is usually a low-to-no reward venture. It's a really fucking bizarre dynamic for games, but it helps stimulate the game-currency<->fiat/BTC exchange. It basically creates jobs. In cases where PvP can be high-reward, you end up with people taking it very seriously - like a job, and it ends up a grind like anywhere else. Even something like SC2 tournaments - you look at players, and they'll have the exact same face on as professional poker players in a tournament. Maybe a weak smile if they win, but otherwise without emotion, because they're being 100% logical, which is almost necessarily not fun.

The problem is when you make ~25k off a book they will limit you, Vegas books are slower to do so but will do it eventually again limiting your profit potential.

Sportsbetting cannot be a profession unless you live in Europe and have access to Pinnacle Sports, the only sportsbook that will accept all action and will never limit you. Otherwise, all vegas books and every US book will limit you. I advise no one to try and make a living off sports, you will get limited time and time again if you are actually good at handicapping. I've been limited already by one of the biggest US online books, Heritage Sports. I've made about $10,000 + a used Mustang I bought and still, I keep it a hobby nothing more. I am a full time finance college student working a part time job as well and do handicapping on the side. Some months it pays the bills sometimes it takes the bill money away, luckily my bank account has enough to cover losing months. Poker is the only option imo that you can make a living off of but it is VERY hard to do. Anyone thinking about trying to make a living off gambling? Well have you looked at a stock within the last year? Bet that stock has increased by 5% or more, say you invested $10k into it, well thats an easy $500. Trust me when I say there are better +EV alternatives than gambling.

No there are lots of guys grinding sports. Making a lot of money of course is hard. Guys making a 50k-200k a year are more common than you think.

1)  "I make x amount per day doing x -EV gamble"  - no, you are not a pro and you will most certainly lose

2) "poker is unbeatable" - wrong, it is extremely beatable.  Just play the main event each year - massive edge, huge variance.  Just play drunk ppl at 1-2NL all over Vegas - extremely beatable, relatively boring & repetitive, beatable by a medium-skilled player for $10-$20/hr in 2013 playing at major casinos on "drunk nights" aka Thurs-Sun each week.

3)  Beating sports - it is done by very few - and I mean very fucking few.  Google Billy Walters.  Google Haralobos Voulgarious Proly gotta spellcheck those.   These 2 kill it.  A handful of others beat it.  Millions claim to know their shit and lose each week.  

4) "beating poker knowing something no one else knows"  see:  Ben Lamb, Chance Kornuth, Jared Bleznick in PLO.  See Shaun Deeb in Open Face.  

Actually, it always feels like you're getting the short end of the stick, losing to ridiculous bad luck, and getting shafted by absolutely ludicrous horrific streaks.  Then usually you tally it up at the end of the month and it's about where it should be.  But yes, you lose eventually, and more often sooner than later. 

The issue is not whether you lose sometimes, because you will.  The issue is whether, on net, your gains exceed your losses.  If over the long run, they don't, you're doing it wrong.

Conquering Risk is a very good book, bought it on google play for $9.99, well worth the read. As he stated, most of your plays should only be 1-3% of your total bankroll, with top plays (like weekly or monthly plays) being 4 or 5%. I personally very rarely will go as high as 7% however last year in 2012 I made a total of four 7% plays and went 3-1 with them. Thats the highest I will go.

Its easy with skill based games to feel like you're always making money, but you always lose eventually

You are correct.

Actually, you should bet less, or have a larger bankroll.  That bet looks to me like a Kelly Criterion bet, or more like a half-Kelly.  This bankroll maximizing strategy might be okay if you can replace that $10K if you lose it, but if you're actually a "professional," you have to make your monthly nut (rent food casino expenses) and if your bankroll takes too big a dent, you're going to have to go get a real job.

This is an okay strategy if you're starting out with $10K that you hope to turn into a real bankroll, and where it won't be a tragedy if you lose all of it or at least a large chunk of it.  Even with half-Kelly betting, you are going to run into runs of horrific luck from time to time.

There are guys who beat sports. It is not a life of walking around in a big suit with a bunch of cash and betting games on a hunch. It's a life of doing computer programs and heavy statistics. Try looking at "Weighing the Odds in Sports Betting", "Conquering Risk: Attacking Vegas and Wall Street" for some information. You will be surprised to learn that a sharp who can beat spreads at 55% is very good (ie they lose almost as much as they win). And more so, with such an edge they should only every risk a maximum of $550 with a bankroll of $10,000.

I was on chat the other day. I said, "Hey, I'm a professional dice gambler. That doesn't mean I make money though, it only means that I gamble other people's money on dice. Therefore, I am a professional."

I'm just having fun ok.

Nobody here is stupid enough to fall for that. Nice try though.

I can't wait to hear the next "minefield strategy", it can't be dumber than this one!

The only reason that bitcoin minefield "strategy" is posted on youtube is to get people to click the referral links.  The only person who's going to profit is the person getting the money from the referrals.

2 weeks ago I had 0.5 btc. I got that up to 3 btc.

Heres me doing that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU4ikKcuh5g

Video I learnt to do that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEs7G3Vku-4

You cant really lose with this method, because if you use the referal link from the tutorial video, you get back whatever you lose.

Also note:  many "poker pros," even some "names" you see on TV, are more proficient at borrowing money and not paying it back than they are at playing poker.  There are also the ones who aren't outright degenerates are good at negotiating backing deals that are favorable to them.  (The former, of course, is degenerate while the latter is sharp dealing, an admirable trait for a poker player.)

But the variance being as insane for large-field high buy-in tournaments as it is, anyone who plays in them regularly who is not bankrolled for them (that is is not a multi-millionaire already) and who does not lower variance by a variety of means including backing deals, is a fool, not a professional.

There are a lot of smart or even semi-smart people who can find some mathematical edges here and there in casinos or in poker who would still be insane to be a "professional gambler."  While these kind of math chops are necessary to do it, there are much more important also necessary factors.  The proper temperament is of the utmost importance.  That is probably the single biggest leak for "professionals," whether actual or self-declared.  Many otherwise excellent players are brought down by substance abuse problems, getting scammed by degenerates, and not really ironically, gambling itself.

For instance, Stu Ungar, commonly regarded as one of the best if not the best no-limit holdem tournament players of all time, gambled away millions of his winnings on sports betting (where he was a terrible fish) and snorted up much of the rest, ending up dead young and broke.

That's a question left for the philosophers to answer.

Food for thought: If you bet zero (or some other low number, like 1 satoshi) and you lose, did you really lose?

The key I've found is knowing when to stop. What's good about gambling online or something is you don't need to travel to a casino or something every time you want to play. So for example on Just-Dice. Get ahead 1 bitcent, or so (depending on your funds) and then stop, cash out. Come back again at a different point and try the same. It's a much slower process, but I feel the 'odds' of coming out up are much greater than sitting there and continuing on the same run.

Since I started investing on Just-Dice I was curious too about making money gambling, I gambled a little and watched in awe as Celeste cleaned us out.

So I wrote a simulator for dice strategy, and the results are you always loss.

In fact, even if there is no house edge, the fact that your bankroll is smaller than the house means you still lose. Yes thats right even with 0% house edge the casino still wins because they can recover more than you.

Poker is the only game gamblers have been playing long term that is winnable, but you need to be really good. Also most people I know that played poker for a living are miserable. My poker friend that used to make a living at the local casino is now far happier he's running his own business. He might play poker every now and then but its not putting food on the table so he is far happier.

You can be the house.......... but that's not gambling, that's just business, right? (Well, a lot of businesses are a gamble, you just hope to do well.)

If I go gamble on a dice site, and I make 1 BTC a day, does that count? Or do you want to wait for me to lose and then that's an example of someone who failed?

I mean, it's working until it fails.

Depend on your skill and luck. You can make it work for you or doom for you

I am a professional gambler and entrepreneur.

These days I'm more business than gambling, but I made a living both gambling and running businesses since I left college.  I am 34 and only held a "real" job for ~1 year lifetime.   I bought a BMW in 2006 after winning ~$250k at the WSOP.   I had a losing year in 2009.

I cannot call myself strictly a professional gambler as I've always engaged in a business aspect while playing poker.   in 2001-2 when I started really concentrating hard on poker, everyone was terrible.  And I mean terri-bad super-awful.    The game is still beatable today, but you need to be a shitload sharper than when I started.  You need to utilize all the tools that made everyone much better - you need to review tons of instructional video - you need to change your game and test new theories - you will need to bust a shit ton of tourney stacks to figure out a winning formula. 

You will need a bankroll, you will need to follow BR management requirements (which you won't), and you will need to game select so you are only playing in beatable games.

Poker is really good each year during the WSOP.  The tourneys are amazing, the cash games are even better.  the other 10.5 months you will need a solid gambling grind.  Florida live poker is hot right now so I hear. 

There are so many reasons why you shouldn't start down this path.  Biggest reason is that there are so many other things you could do with your life.  If the game grabs you like it grabbed me, if you keep records and prove to yourself you can do it, if you are young or if no one else depends on you - then I say do what you love. 

I'd approach gambling for a living with extreme caution and try and ease into it as gradually as possible.   

this is way more rambling that I intended but I feel there is a lot of truth in there and I'm not editing today during the BIG BTC.  If anyone has Q's they can ask, google Bryan Micon if you don't believe me.

With poker sure, I would start off playing live though - games are much more slower paced and a bit more fun at a casino to keep you entertained.

But if you don't absolutely LOVE playing poker, and I mean LOVE it more than anything you really shouldn't even try to create a career out of it. You'll just become sick of the game and lose.

it is a very hard way to make a living , lot easier paths exist.

Everybody thinks they're good at poker, don't let yourself be one of them..

Poker is the only "gambling" game you can make a living at.  There are a few downsides.  Most people who play poker for a living are terrible people -- depressed, just a miserable group.  So those are now your new friends.

Gambling at satoshi dice or whatever site you're looking at is terrible -- it's pretty much impossible to win long term.  And martingale is the worst "strategy" you could pick -- it was almost certainly invented by casinos.  It is terrible for the player.

If you want to make a living off of gambling feel free to read my gambling guide, it has some very useful information https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/insanity-leaks-never-before-seen-gambling-technique-guaranteed-money-257550

And as for dice manipulation, that is generally considered cheating.  Cheating is against the law, and can get you arrested.  There are probably still a few places it could get you worse.

+1

Poker is the most viable way to develop a reliable income stream by gambling, but it requires a lot of work. You have to learn proper poker strategy (different hands, statistics, managing your bankroll etc.), gather a lot of experience by playing many many games and work your way up, starting on low-stake games where most players are inexperienced. Poker is not a game of luck, it's a game of strategy and mathematics.


Counting cards is not really that difficult (depends on the method you're using) and that's why casinos worldwide have introduced shuffling machines that shuffle the cards after every deal, making any counting efforts worthless. It's also very obvious to halfway experienced not completely brain-dead staff if a player is counting, as his bets vary greatly in size. E.g. if a player bets constantly 5 bucks and then he suddenly places a $150 bet, something fishy is going on.

There are a few possibilities:

1) Play poker well. This is probably the most popular way, and thousands of people make a significant income just playing poker (keep in mind, this means millions are probably losing).

2) Sports betting. Some players are able to be profitable long-term here. I don't really know much about it.

3) Abuse casino promotions. Although this isn't really winning from gambling and is more just winning free money and trying not to lose it all.

4) Develop an advantage in a casino game. There are a few ways to do this: count cards, learn how to manipulate dice in craps, etc. This is definitely the hardest way.

Good luck!

It may be possible but that requires a generous amount of luck and sometimes skill. Would be a shame if it were money you depended upon and then lost it all in a matter of minutes. Gambling is best as a hobby.

It is,not a career I would advise for anyone. Online you will never beat the house because almost all are rigged or provably fair with -EV which cannot be overcome. Blackjack has now become luck, to say someone is a pro at blackjack is a lie unless they mean tournament blackjack where its u vs another player. 8 shoe decks are used now everywhere or 1 deck resguffled after every hand making the benefit of counting cards almost obselete. Only way you can make money is thru sports n poker but only bout 1% pf those who try to go "pro" in ether of these actually  are successful. My advice: finish high school go to college and get a real career. Keep gambling as a hobby as most.

There are many professional gamblers all over the place. Some of them very successful. He is a good example: http://deadspin.com/5804565/meet-the-mysterious-blackjack-superhero-who-took-atlantic-city-for-15-million

　

The most important thing for long-term gambling as an income-generating activity (and I would not recommend it except to very few people), other than a game where you actually have an edge over the house or (more commonly) other players is a bankroll that can withstand the sustained losing streaks even an overall winning player will suffer.

Unless you have the discipline to maintain a positive attitude and continue to play well in the face of days, weeks, or even months of suboptimal results, it is not for you.

It's still possible to make some relatively decent hobby income without going "pro," and in this case, where you have a real income in addition to poker winnings (or whatever), you don't have to depend on it and can take it or leave it.  The days of giant deposit bonuses that clear quickly and super easy fields even a half-decent player can beat to death are long gone and especially if you are in the "Land of the Free," many of the operations still doing business for U.S. players are dodgy in the extreme (Lock Poker I am looking at you).

Obviously, if you're talking about pure gambling like Satoshi Dice and most of the non-poker Bitcoin options, there probably isn't enough of that for very many people to make a living on it, and you will never win in the long run on negative expected value games.

Stick to "gambling games" that involve at least 1% of skill if you want a steady income. Poker is a popular example.

Generally it is not possible as gamling sites are made in a way to profit the bank in long term, not the gambler. If you play the chance to keep the money you deposited or increase it is smaller than the chance to lose some of it.
Variance may allow you to profit a bit, but the more you play the more likely you will lose.

There are rare exceptions with games where do not play against a house. Poker is an example, technically still gambling, but against unexperienced players you can improve your chances of winning so much that you make a somewhat steady profit.
I know some people which have made an income trough Schafkopf, a game played in Bavaria. Nobody of them got rich and as soon as they had a job they dropped it because they didn't earn as much as with a good job.

Just asking people who may have done it, or people that attempted and failed.

It's easy to win 0.05btc as it is to lose them, so I wouldn't know. I have 0.24 bitcoins I won throughout 2 weeks, and lost them all today, and had to deposit 0.07 that I've doubled in a few hours(though I was extremely close to losing them, as using the martingale thing my highest bet was 0.0512), but I need 0.16 still to cover old losses and be in the green again.