Is it secured? | Bitcointalksearch.org

HCP

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on June 03, 2020, 08:21:58 AM

The sure thing I guess i need to create a new account to create a Segwit wallet, but I think I'm gonna stick in my legacy wallet since its working great and doesn't encounter any problem in it, I think the only issue here like the others are saying is the fees in a legacy wallet.

To be honest, when you're sending with one or two inputs... or fees are at the 1 sat/byte level, you're not likely to notice much difference in fees anyway... it'll be the difference between maybe 150 sats and 250 sats etc Tongue

The differences only become really apparently when some combination of the following occurs:

a. Bitcoin price moons to like $100,000, so 100 sats is worth $$$
b. fee rates spike up to 100+ sats/byte type levels, so an increase in transaction size of 100+ bytes == $$$
c. you have large numbers of inputs/outputs in your transactions making them significantly larger than "normal"

Quote

Seems like you could only edit the seeds when your just creating the account but thanks

.

That is correct... if you don't add the word(s)/passphrase when you create the wallet originally, if you try to do so afterwards by "restoring from seed and adding extra words", that will of course generate a completely different wallet with completely different addresses.

Asuspawer09

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Quote from: Pmalek on June 01, 2020, 01:29:55 PM

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on June 01, 2020, 01:25:52 PM

Or is it possible to change my current wallet to a segwit?

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You need to create a new wallet and select native Segwit as the type.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 02, 2020, 04:23:02 AM

Quote from: HCP on June 01, 2020, 08:14:44 PM

-snip-

This. Don't try to force a legacy wallet to generate SegWit addresses. Don't try to export your legacy private keys and create SegWit addresses from them. Don't end up with a completely non-standard SegWit derivation path, and a wallet which you can't recover just by entering your seed. If you want a SegWit wallet, then just create a SegWit wallet.

Quote from: pooya87 on June 01, 2020, 11:14:44 PM

according to the proposal it is not meant for encryption and PBKDF2 can not be considered a strong KDF specially with such an extremely low iteration count.

I agree with that, but even if the iteration count was 1, a passphrase is still an additional barrier that an attacker has to overcome. Maybe not in your example with a passphrase of 123 which will be broken pretty much instantly, but if I'm using a randomly generated passphrase, something along the lines of N(%8GcgtMyYs6]$U, then my coins won't be instantly stolen if my seed is compromised. Therefore, they are more secure.

The sure thing I guess i need to create a new account to create a Segwit wallet, but I think I'm gonna stick in my legacy wallet since its working great and doesn't encounter any problem in it, I think the only issue here like the others are saying is the fees in a legacy wallet.

Quote from: Chikito on June 01, 2020, 02:58:31 AM

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

with just the Standard wallet:
Is it safe just to use the standard wallet?

for more security better to add additional passphrase, standar wallet > create new seed > tick legacy or segwit > options > tick extend this seed with custom word, then write your passphrase

you must be careful when you lost your additional passphrase you will lose your money (treat it the same as your mnemonic seed)

DWYOR

Seems like you could only edit the seeds when your just creating the account but thanks

.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: HCP on June 01, 2020, 08:14:44 PM

-snip-

This. Don't try to force a legacy wallet to generate SegWit addresses. Don't try to export your legacy private keys and create SegWit addresses from them. Don't end up with a completely non-standard SegWit derivation path, and a wallet which you can't recover just by entering your seed. If you want a SegWit wallet, then just create a SegWit wallet.

Quote from: pooya87 on June 01, 2020, 11:14:44 PM

according to the proposal it is not meant for encryption and PBKDF2 can not be considered a strong KDF specially with such an extremely low iteration count.

I agree with that, but even if the iteration count was 1, a passphrase is still an additional barrier that an attacker has to overcome. Maybe not in your example with a passphrase of 123 which will be broken pretty much instantly, but if I'm using a randomly generated passphrase, something along the lines of N(%8GcgtMyYs6]$U, then my coins won't be instantly stolen if my seed is compromised. Therefore, they are more secure.

Darker45

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on June 01, 2020, 01:25:52 PM

Quote from: Chikito on June 01, 2020, 02:58:31 AM

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

with just the Standard wallet:
Is it safe just to use the standard wallet?

for more security better to add additional passphrase, standar wallet > create new seed > tick legacy or segwit > options > tick extend this seed with custom word, then write your passphrase

you must be careful when you lost your additional passphrase you will lose your money (treat it the same as your mnemonic seed)

DWYOR

I will do this one thanks for your help mate.

If you do this one you might want to reconsider the recommendation or suggestion of Electrum that says, "Your seed extension must be saved together with your seed."

If you prefer to write down your seed on a piece of paper, do not include your passphrase with it. Write it down on a separate sheet and store it separately. Otherwise, the purpose of creating an additional word/s is defeated. In the event that somebody will find your seed, he/she will not be able to gain access to your coins because there is no passphrase with it. If you jot down all of them on a single sheet, you're not actually increasing the safety of your coins.

pooya87

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 01, 2020, 04:18:17 AM

Quote from: pooya87 on June 01, 2020, 03:33:54 AM

the additional "word(s)" that is added should never be seen as an additional security.

I'm not sure I agree with that.

As you say, the passphrase offers no additional security to your seed phrase - it does not encrypt it, and if someone gains access your seed phrase, then they still have complete access to your seed phrase (which is obviously not the case if your seed phrase was encrypted). It does, however, offer additional security to your private keys.

If you don't use a passphrase and someone gains access to your seed phrase, they also gain access to your private keys and your coins.
If you do use a passphrase and someone gains access to your seed phrase, they don't gain access to your private keys and your coins, unless they also gain access to your passphrase. By definition, that's more secure.

i still wouldn't call it additional security, although it becomes a little bit safer. the actual security is only gained through proper encryption.
it would be like having the wallet on an online Windows machine without anti virus, then after installing anti virus, or for example encrypting wallet with "123" as password, in both cases you can correctly claim you have increased the security but in reality that can not be considered additional security.

that is my rational about this "passphrase". according to the proposal it is not meant for encryption and PBKDF2 can not be considered a strong KDF specially with such an extremely low iteration count.

HCP

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Quote from: Pmalek on June 01, 2020, 01:29:55 PM

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on June 01, 2020, 01:25:52 PM

Or is it possible to change my current wallet to a segwit?

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You need to create a new wallet and select native Segwit as the type.

Quote from: Maus0728 on June 01, 2020, 06:24:41 PM

You need to create another standard wallet because the script type of your bitcoin address depends on the seed you are using. So, you need another set of seed phrase to transition from p2pkh (legacy) to p2sh (nested segwit)

Just to clarify what these two users have said... Electrum encodes the "script type" (aka the type of addresses that the wallet will generate) into the seed mnemonic itself. Most wallets do not do this.

The result is that when you try to restore your Electrum wallet from the seed mnemonic, it won't prompt you asking what type of addresses you want... it will just automagically generate addresses based on the script type encoded in the seed.

Because of this, you will need a "segwit" seed mnemonic... your current mnemonic will only generate "legacy" addresses (unless you do some very advanced and non-standard things during wallet creation).

Addtionally, I recommend that you don't do any of the things suggested by DroomieChikito... it'll decrease your security (playing around and potentially exposing private keys) and, because you're using things in a non-standard way, there is a possibility that you'll forget what it was that you did and make things difficult for yourself later on if you need to recover your wallet for whatever reason.

Maus0728

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on June 01, 2020, 01:25:52 PM

I've already created a legacy wallet since my bitcoin address start in "1" or standard wallet. Is it worth it to create a new one because segwit is better?

Or is it possible to change my current wallet to a segwit?

You need to create another standard wallet because the script type of your bitcoin address depends on the seed you are using. So, you need another set of seed phrase to transition from p2pkh (legacy) to p2sh (nested segwit)

@DroomieChikito will also work but it is more likely to be advanced.

Chikito

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on June 01, 2020, 01:25:52 PM

I've already created a legacy wallet since my bitcoin address start in "1" or standard wallet. Is it worth it to create a new one because segwit is better?
Or is it possible to change my current wallet to a segwit?

as Pmalek said it doesn't work.

but you can do by change private key colon, export your private key. Starting electrum at begining select import private key then input p2wpkh: in front private key. ( you have change p2pkh into p2wpkh )

Code:

p2pkh:legacy
p2wpkh-p2sh:segwit
p2wpkh:native

or change to bip39 with same seed and passphrase at begin electrum select already seed > option > tick extend this seed with custom word (if used) and Bip 39 > select native segwit (bc1) or p2sh-segwit (3)

It's just my option, better to follow Pmalek suggestion.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on June 01, 2020, 01:25:52 PM

Or is it possible to change my current wallet to a segwit?

Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. You need to create a new wallet and select native Segwit as the type.

Asuspawer09

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Thanks for everyone's help

Quote from: ranochigo on June 01, 2020, 12:03:58 AM

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

with just the Standard wallet:

Is it safe just to use the standard wallet? (I have the seed) How to keep my account secure?

Yes. As long as you don't share the seeds to someone else, keep your computer secure, your funds won't get stolen.

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

Legacy or segwit?

Segwit. Segwit offers a lot more advantages when it comes to the fees per transaction as compared to legacy wallets. If the service that you're using doesn't support bech32 addresses, you can use P2WSH addresses.

I've already created a legacy wallet since my bitcoin address start in "1" or standard wallet. Is it worth it to create a new one because segwit is better?

Or is it possible to change my current wallet to a segwit?

Quote from: Chikito on June 01, 2020, 02:58:31 AM

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

with just the Standard wallet:
Is it safe just to use the standard wallet?

for more security better to add additional passphrase, standar wallet > create new seed > tick legacy or segwit > options > tick extend this seed with custom word, then write your passphrase

you must be careful when you lost your additional passphrase you will lose your money (treat it the same as your mnemonic seed)

DWYOR

I will do this one thanks for your help mate.

Lucius

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

Is it safe just to use the standard wallet? (I have the seed) How to keep my account secure?

There is another option to further increase the security of Electrum wallet, and it is focused on the 2FA which is using third party service (TrustedCoin). The good side is that a wallet transaction cannot be made without code verification (sent to your phone) which prevents hackers from making any unauthorized transaction. The downside is that this option is not free, so it’s just a question of whether you’re willing to pay 0.00005 BTC/tx (for 20 transaction) or 0.000025 BTC/tx (for 100 transactions) depending on what package you buy.

Of course there is also the issue of phone loss which can complicate the whole situation, although even then all is not lost since it is possible to recover wallet via seed (remove 2FA) or in case seed is lost by asking Trusted Coin to give you trustedcoin key.

Maus0728

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Personally, integrating the hardware wallet with Electrum is the best option to consider if you want to have a good security. Other than that, making sure that your seed phrase is secured from threat such as flood, fire, physical stress etc..

Laminating the paper that I used and keeping them from a secured place like closet is my best bet. You can also use metal seed storage if you have extra peso.
[1] https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: pooya87 on June 01, 2020, 03:33:54 AM

the additional "word(s)" that is added should never be seen as an additional security.

I'm not sure I agree with that.

As you say, the passphrase offers no additional security to your seed phrase - it does not encrypt it, and if someone gains access your seed phrase, then they still have complete access to your seed phrase (which is obviously not the case if your seed phrase was encrypted). It does, however, offer additional security to your private keys.

If you don't use a passphrase and someone gains access to your seed phrase, they also gain access to your private keys and your coins.
If you do use a passphrase and someone gains access to your seed phrase, they don't gain access to your private keys and your coins, unless they also gain access to your passphrase. By definition, that's more secure.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Yeah, no encryption but some extra add to the SEED entropy, I think. The more entropy of the SEED that controls private keys the more secure they are - correct me if I'm wrong with that.

Sort of. The passphrase doesn't change the entropy of your seed phrase. It will always be 128 or 256 bits, depending on whether it is 12 words or 24 words. The passphrase (if used) is used as part of the second parameter for PBKDF2 (your seed phrase being the first parameter) to generate your "root seed" number, which is then used to derive all your private keys, public keys, and addresses.

pooya87

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Quote from: Chikito on June 01, 2020, 02:58:31 AM

for more security better to add additional passphrase,

the additional "word(s)" that is added should never be seen as an additional security. it is unfortunate that this additional string is called "passphrase" but as the Electrum GUI also warns it is not for encryption. it only adds what the BIP refers to as "plausible deniability".
if you want real additional security then encrypt the mnemonic using any AES encryption tool you can find and trust.

crwth

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For me, the best way that you could do that is use an old laptop that has been wiped, never been connected to the internet, etc. After that, download Electrum and install it on the laptop. In this way, there's no connection between the internet and the generation of your seeds. Input a password for double protection.

When that's taken care of, you are going to use xpubkey to see the balances in a computer that's connected to a network. That's how you would do transactions as well. Save to a flash drive and sign the transaction using the air-gapped computer.

Chikito

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

with just the Standard wallet:
Is it safe just to use the standard wallet?

for more security better to add additional passphrase, standar wallet > create new seed > tick legacy or segwit > options > tick extend this seed with custom word, then write your passphrase

you must be careful when you lost your additional passphrase you will lose your money (treat it the same as your mnemonic seed)

DWYOR

pooya87

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

Is it safe just to use the standard wallet? (I have the seed) How to keep my account secure?

to be secure you should start by making sure you have the real software not some fake one looking like real Electrum. to do that you have to verify the signature of the binary you just downloaded. take a look here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/guide-how-to-safely-download-and-verify-electrum-guide-5240594

ranochigo

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Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

with just the Standard wallet:

Is it safe just to use the standard wallet? (I have the seed) How to keep my account secure?

Yes. As long as you don't share the seeds to someone else, keep your computer secure, your funds won't get stolen.

Quote from: Asuspawer09 on May 31, 2020, 11:51:11 PM

Legacy or segwit?

Segwit. Segwit offers a lot more advantages when it comes to the fees per transaction as compared to legacy wallets. If the service that you're using doesn't support bech32 addresses, you can use P2WSH addresses.

Asuspawer09

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Been using a custodial wallet for a long time.

I download and set up my Electrum wallet here:

https://electrum.org/#download

with just the Standard wallet:

Is it safe just to use the standard wallet? (I have the seed) How to keep my account secure?

Legacy or segwit?

Topic: Is it secured? (Read 357 times)