Topic: Is lying or cheating in support of stealing an election okay? (Read 449 times)

Yeah, I appreciate it hardly constitutes conclusive evidence - maybe I'm a credulous fool, but I still take the responses at face-value, and I'm surprised that it appears that some people want Trump out more than they want fair elections.

Meanwhile... the final results in my own poll are in, and I can reveal there was a surprise late swing!

Think of how much you still have yet to do, though, with your bitter memories of Trump. There MIGHT JUST BE a way to blame the Biden initiated wars on the TRUMP!

Wait, we're not quite to a Biden win yet. So there's still a possibility Trump could win and no wars.

https://issuesinsights.com/2020/11/12/look-closely-trump-still-has-a-good-shot-at-winning-reelection/

The facts are, as of Monday, a full week after election day, Biden is behind President Donald Trump in the undisputed electoral count — Biden’s 226 to Trump’s 232 (assuming Trump wins North Carolina) — with a full 80 outstanding electoral votes in seven states still in a legal fog and unlikely to be determined much before the Dec. 14 state deadlines to report the count to Congress.

Only the candidate with at least 270 actual electoral votes reported to Congress on that date will be declared the winner. Nothing more and nothing less. And it certainly won’t be “declared” by CNN’s Anderson Cooper.

So what can we say at this point about the outstanding 80 electoral votes in those seven states? What are the states in play and what are the ultimate likely outcomes?

The seven states still counting votes, or with recounts ordered, or audits forecast, or credible evidence of fraud or system “glitches” include:

    Georgia’s 16 electoral votes under a scheduled recount.
    Pennsylvania’s 20 electoral votes under a scheduled audit and a Supreme Court order.
    Michigan’s 16 electoral votes with statehouse subpoenas for election officials.
    Wisconsin’s 10 votes under a scheduled recount and statewide canvas.
    Nevada’s six votes chasing legal challenges for fraud and a Bill Barr Justice Department investigation.
    Arizona’s 11 votes still counting and under scrutiny for voter irregularities.
    And Nebraska’s one electoral vote in their District 2 under investigation.

That’s 80 outstanding Electoral College votes for which no one can at this point reliably predict a final resolution. How can anyone possibly know the results of any investigation, audit or recount before they have begun?

The only thing that is known for certain at this date is that Biden needs to capture 44 of the remaining 80, while Trump needs only 38. The combination of states to get to either of those totals are a bit varied, but there is one final determinate that heavily advantages Trump.

Of those seven outstanding states, all but Nevada’s six electoral votes are the responsibility of strong Republican statehouse majorities. Why, you might ask, is that important?

The Constitution of the United States provides in Article 2 that the final authority for every elector from each state is solely vested in that state’s legislature. Meaning any final disputes or resolutions of accusations of fraud will be determined by the majorities in those states. And since all but six of these outstanding 80 votes are controlled by Republicans, Trump has more than a good shot at being re-elected.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich cited on Fox on Nov. 9 the legal precedent that where election law has been violated, the court has invalidated the results of that entire vote. Even to the point of switching the result of the election from a corrupt Democrat to a Republican challenger.

So now you know why the left and their handmaidens in the media are so wild-eyed about projecting Biden now.

Yeah I really would take any poll results here with a grain of salt because it really isn't going to get you anywhere. If you want to see if Pew Research, or some sort of polling group would be interested in looking into this that is one thing. As they're a reputable outfit that is going to try to ensure that their results are close enough to what the general populace thinks.

Polling groups may be wrong sometimes, but this poll on bitcointalk forum isn't indicative of anything of real substance.

Well done,  I knew you can do it. Now on to the anger stage. Smash a plate or something. We'll get through this together.

...wait, that's GOT TO BE advice from a board brimful of anon nut job!

You guys crack me up

A poll on a board brimfull of anonymous nutjobs... it's about as much proof of intent/willingness of cheating in the election as Trump's abject failure to prove that he won said election.

Spendulus - just let Trump go. He lost. On the bright side you'll be able to criticize Biden/Harris for the next four years without having to pretzel excuse after excuse for why one stupid tweet or another is not actually stupid.

The number of liars and cheaters is never equal to the number of people who admit they are liars and cheaters.

But coming on five years of trump derangement syndrome and orangemanbad, I figured some people might readily admit to being worthless lying cunts, and they do. The poll is whatever people vote it to be.

I would have disagreed with this statement, however I'm surprised to see that the results of the poll - so far - do suggest that you might have a point. It's only 2 out of 17 who think that, but still, it's non-zero. We could do with some more respondents to see where this leads.

It's also worth noting that whilst we are talking about the possibility of illegal fraud to manipulate election results, the democratic process as it is is some way from perfect. Media outlets and public figures manipulate voters hugely with selective truths, willful misrepresentation and outright lies. Even if that were somehow solved, we still have the unfair 'winner takes the whole state' approach, which should more ideally be replaced with proportional representation - if everyone gets a vote, then every voting preference (above some minimum % threshold) should be represented in government. A broader spectrum of representatives might also work to mitigate the oppositional and factional nature of the current two-party system.

well since the democrats sided with the defund the police movement, after the georgy floyed execution,

they have become completely untrustworthy,

trump forever

they now are trying to steal their election with a left wing media coup that tries to dictate the nation its agenda,

they also have nothing to do with liberalism or progressivism,

they have a black fist as a logo, they are fascist neonazis and racists, disguising themselves as liberal and progressive civil rights movement

they also are trying to replace the professional police with racist and tribal vigilanties

Here's the thing though. From a neutral perspective, there is no proof of fraud. There's just none.

Now coming to voting process, look, Trump has been president and is still president. He knew all rules etc. The voting process is going on and counting of votes are done following rules which were already established.

The matter of the fact is when Trump says "Don't count vote that came after election day" itself undermines democracy. Each and every vote should and must be counted for. Because that's democracy.

It's not God vs Devil. It's an election between two politicians. Just because your side didn't win doesn't mean there were frauds. Sometimes acceptance is the key. Just because you support a particular politician doesn't in anyway define you or your uniqueness. Move on, Trump is a rich guy, he has his life settled. He ain't gonna pay our bills.

This isn't really relevant. Remember that Trump claimed in 2016 that although he won the election, 'fraud' had robbed him of winning the popular vote. The commission he set up to investigate his own lies the 'fraud' found zero evidence of fraud. My favourite quote from the linked article, which sums up the situation quite eloquently: "The plural of anecdote is not data".

He claimed fraud in 2016, and couldn't find any evidence despite being the most powerful man in the world, with all doors open to him.
Now he claims fraud again, without supplying any evidence. His attempted subversion of democracy didn't work last time, and won't work this time. The idea of someone who has been POTUS for four years positioning himself as a valiant outsider fighting against a corrupt system is absurd.

Evidence or didn't happen.

Lie or cheat is never been okay to steal any election in any place so really its now time for trump to accept this all and give up because he has not solid evidence to supply on any forum about his lost.

It's never okay to lie or cheat to steal an election. If you're going to do that, then why bother having an election in the first place?

Even before voting started, Trump's two possible outcomes were:
a) I won.
b) I won but was cheated by the other guy.

There was never going to be an 'I lost' outcome.

In this instance, the 'fraud' was a pre-determined excuse. If he lost, Trump was always going to challenge the results, no matter whether they were close or not (they're not close). There was never any way that he would accept that he had lost, no margin clear enough. Even 90% to 10%, he'd cry fraud.

And he still hasn't supplied any evidence.

Really don't understand this poll. If you're stealing an election then you're going to lie, cheat and steal to do it. It also presupposes, assuming this is all about the current election, that it's being stolen or attempting to be stolen by one of the parties and I don't see any clear evidence of that. The real question is whether or not there's ever any justification for "stealing" an election.

May be of interest, this is an article drawing from the expertise of DEFCON attendees (a large hacker convention). They always have a hall on hacking voting machines.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/11/02/computer-experts-sound-warnings-safety-americas-voting-machines/6087174002/

DEF CON, an annual hackers’ conference, has regularly packed a “Voting Village” with older election systems and invited people of all skill sets — including children — to poke for vulnerabilities. The very first machine to be hacked in the Voting Village launch was a DRE. It took minutes.

Of course that's not enough. Rather, it's only the beginning. By the time SCOTUS finishes, there'll be so many Trump votes found, that Trump will be shown to have won by the biggest landslide in the last 150 years.


Caught big time - Election data log files exposed repeated, criminal vote theft - they are busted

This is it, folks. The log files of the voting "transactions" have now been analyzed and they show over 500,000 votes removed from Trump and given to Biden, almost entirely in swing states like PA, WI, MI, etc.

This is the smoking gun evidence, and it was all done by the CIA using the Dominion software system that allows for remote, real-time theft of elections (which is why all the swing states simultaneously shut down their vote counting, so they could rig it from that point forward).

All the evidence is now coming out. The Dems are finished. Hundreds or thousands will go to prison. Many will begin to flee the country now.


Emergency Update - Nov. 11th - SCOTUS will nullify the election, Congress will decide - https://www.brighteon.com/64a46d81-3e4a-4945-b914-db215bf14d31


Watch In the Blink of an Eye: CNN's 'Magic Board' Subtracts 20,000 Trump Votes and Adds Them to Biden's Tally in Pennsylvania - https://www.brighteon.com/0ad42991-54da-4de8-9dc0-9f1e17627ccf


Giuliani breaks down evidence that could secure election for Trump - https://www.brighteon.com/6f6786df-a104-4398-bed0-6c06e9c50e2b


Cyber coup: Investigation underway -- Dominion Voting Systems (with ties to high level Democrats) repeatedly glitched in favor of Biden - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-dominion-voting-systems-glitched-in-bidens-favor.html


System "glitch" in Wisconsin swapped Trump votes with Biden's, giving Biden a spontaneous "win" - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-glitch-wisconsin-swapped-trump-votes-biden.html


Did Pfizer and the FDA conspire to withhold vaccine "good news" until after the election, playing politics with the pandemic to harm Trump? - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-pfizer-fda-withhold-vaccine-info-after-election.html


CNN accidentally broadcast vote fraud as it happened live - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-cnn-accidentally-broadcast-vote-fraud-live.html


Sidney Powell says nationwide election audit needed to expose widespread vote fraud - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-sidney-powell-nationwide-election-audit-vote-fraud.html


Thug Democrats who run Michigan threaten legal action against Big League Politics over #DetroitLeaks exclusive showing vote fraud training - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-michigan-democrats-threaten-big-league-politics-detroit-leaks-exclusive.html


Michigan poll workers created fake names so people could vote twice - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-michigan-poll-workers-fake-names-vote-twice.html


Giuliani reveals that dead people voted for Biden in Philadelphia - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-giuliani-says-dead-people-voted-biden-philadelphia.html


Bill Barr finally authorizes DOJ to start investigating "substantial allegations" of vote fraud - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-barr-authorizes-doj-substantial-allegations-vote-fraud.html


Recount contested states or prepare for war: Win or lose, half of America will not trust election results without complete transparency - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-10-recount-contested-states-or-prepare-for-war.html


CNN's Jake Tapper threatens Trump staffers to concede or get blacklisted - https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-11-11-cnn-jake-tapper-threatens-trump-concede-blacklisted.html

Nobody has to subscribe to a theory. It's the candidate's right to ask a state to prove its count and its results. It's the state's requirement to actually do that, or us spectators get to watch corrupt officials in that state try to squirm by with fishy excuses. Then we get to watch a SC case, the details of which nobody knows right now.

Doesn't matter what you doubt or opine either. Or me.

We're spectators.

Since the election fraud has been going on for decades, we really need to get rid of the US Government, because it hasn't been the one we attempted to elect for a long time now.

Yeah......

Even for the vote in Wisconsin, which is within 10-15k votes or so -- that's not even close enough, historically, for a recount to even do anything. In 2016 the recount only changed the fate of a few hundred ballots, not even close to the 10-15K that Trump would need to go FULLY to him.

Not going to happen. Unless you personally subscribe to the theory of -- WELL THERE WERE TONS OF VOTER FRAUD SO THAT MEANS TONS OF BALLOTS ARE GOING TO BE TOSSED -- I really doubt that. But I guess we'll see what the next few weeks of legal battles do. Doesn't seem like it'll be much though.

I'm not really sure about this scenario but it might be...
It is true that the minority in the US is very vocal and frontal to drop the trump at all costs however those who are pro and not, should accept the final result regardless of whether it was cheating that made one of the candidates win. hope the truth is revealed and the winner is the chosen one fairly & honestly.

I see your point but would classify it under "totally uncool just when Trump does it."

But that's coming after four years of non stop scheming, lying, contriving false collusions by the Left, so they shouldn't expect Trumpers to be "reasonable" according to their edicts.

You'll just have to be content with the use by Trump of the legal processes entitled to him to examine whatever he wants to examine. Meanwhile, I'm certainly pleased with the general direction of the results of my poll!

If lying and cheating is ok then why waste time and money on voting at all.
To prevent such things happeing the US postal service patent the use of blockchain in compination with mail to provide a reliable voting system.
Pub. date: Aug 13, 2020

I don't think the president should be lying as part of an election. There might be a few reasons where the president should lie, to protect his people or as part of some though negotiations maybe. But if we would all be okay to accept lies just to get into the office, than the hole election campaign becomes skewed. We wouldn't know what to believe anymore, which of statements are going to be true and which are false.

It is damn so good as US has rigged elections of other countries multiple times.
US and its people deserve it.

This reminds me of the time when Rome was taken and sacked by its own legions in 88BCE.

+1 to that.

Lying or cheating to steal an election is not okay at all.

Lying on a campaign trail is pretty common, but the result of this isn't 'stealing an election' Cheating on a campaign trail, well that's up to people other then myself to decide what 'cheating' is.

But yeah, for all of this 'widespread election fraud' we're going to need some proof to back it. Right now it just sounds like a ton of baseless conspiracy theories.

Which of the states in 2020 has a margin at least within an order of magnitude of Florida 2000 so that your lame attempt at whataboutism would make an iota of sense? And how many of these states would Trump need to flip in order to win? Can he try a recount in California? Should Biden try a recount in Texas? Where does this nonsense stop?

I'm not really sure what you are saying.

Is it like, lying or cheating is okay if it is for a greater good, or something perceived as that?

Certainly we could say that some perceive lying or cheating as acceptable if it benefits them personally, as that is pretty much a definition of crime.

First of all, there are things you need to consider whether you do it for the sake of the country or just for yourself. Also if you think doing so will result in a good thing to happened or you are not sure about the outcome of it. Either way, if it's for the sake of the country because we already witnessed how Trump runs his government. why not gamble for Biden? maybe he can do the contrary and make America great again. if not, at least you've made some contribution to try to change the era of foolishness which Trump did when he was in power. 

Hmm, so WHEN SHOULD Al Gore have finally conceded?

Was it totally uncool for him to demand recounts in FL or is it just totally uncool when a Repub does such a thing or of course, just when Trump does it?

Totally not cool to lie and cheat and try to steal an election. Time for the loser to concede and start working on transferring government functions to the winner instead of obstructing the will of the people and discrediting the election process.

No, this is true of a small minority of them. I know many Democrats, and they do not think this way.

But the small minority, here in the US, is very vocal and is assisted by foreign interests.

the problem is not the vote itself,

the problem is who votes?

the democrats think everyone is allowed to vote, they try to threathen those owning property in the us, so they are afraid

they have their own form of fascism.

while the republicans think only true and hard working noncriminal american citizens are allowed to work that support the wellbeing of the country.

the democrats litterally use foreign greed to maintain their power.

If they want to secure it with a blockchain, the only way I will accept it as proof is if it is on THE BITCOIN BLOCKCHAIN..

I am not sure where you are and what is the level of democracy in your country. But if you live in countries where is democracy very soft and easy to omit, then you can't be surprised with little "embellishment" of the voting process.
As I remember, Trump also uses some non-democratic methods in his first elections. then everyone was taken aback there was no reaction and Trump can be considered as the creator of a voting cheat. now it turned against him.
Just imagine, how it would look like he won again stealing an election? it looks much worse when someone does it from a position.

In the end, what is democracy? Two idiot votes are still double more than one vote from a smart person.

There is no point in running elections if they are not 100% correct. That is why there are  gazillion observers watching how voting goes and how counting votes goes. There are republican,, democrat, independent and foreign  observers.

Here you have what Organisation of American States observers reported on USA elections: http://www.oas.org/documents/eng/press/Preliminary-Report-of-the-OAS-EOM-USA-2020.pdf

jes if you get rid of the corrupt democrats

I'd think one to four years in prison would be about right for the active participants. That might have to be a sentence of ten, then with typical early parole one to four.

But what about all the follow-alongs, the ones that know the election was stolen, but go along silently because its their party? And they parrot the talking points, over and over.

Sort of an attempt to gain a consensus in the media.

In a democratic system, it should never be allowed or tolerated.

If it can be proven in court that someone broke the law in favor of a given candidate,
the said candidate should be disqualified and banned for life from politics.

I do see it that way, but suspect many do not. After all, a strong minority really hate Trump, and they may feel that cheating and lying is okay to get him out.

Just look at the sorts of things they say.

Some believe block chain technology would make a fair election result, that’s baffling, the whole point of bitcoin 51% attack is the abuse of voting system at its finest, I think it would make the election even better to manipulate.

for me of course that is very sinful, it has hurt democracy...
democracy is agreeing on the results of the majority vote, so if we support those who commit fraud in the general election we automatically support the fraudsters to become leaders. a fraudster who gets elected during a general election will only be a disaster for the citizens.

I think the Broly46 post is lacking. We have an explanation of "stick," but not of "stone." Or can you find it? But the stick definition contradicts some of the rest of his talk. However, the definition fits right in with what's going on these days. Check it out below.


This Is My Boomstick!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFriRcIwqNU





EDIT: If you want to see our power for what is right and what is wrong, see this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GULItNlBvJc.

Cheating and stealing is everywhere even in bitcoin mining there is stealing and cheating, election won’t be the last of them, there is more everyday happening is unfair that require attention immediately and people tend to give election a lot of damn than anything else, btw nobody would change that unfairness, election would always be always as cheating as possible just like any thing that people fighting to win over it.

Well, that's certainly a point of view I did not consider.

@Spendulus it’s not okay at all because there’s something called as conscience, and how can any one even sleep at night knowing that they cheated to support their candidate. Lastly I was just reading news reports that the lawyers of the law firms employed by Trump are not happy that they’re helping in endorsing Trump claims that elections results were manipulated, and one of those lawyers even resigned in support of his beliefs.

Source:

https://electionlawblog.org/?p=118412

It will never be okay, first if you support a candidate who you know to be cheating, then you must expect that there will be a high chance of corruption that will happen in that term. Second, stick with "Innocent until proven guilty" cause even if it is the president, if he/she is proven guilty, he must be punished under the law. And lastly, You don't want a thief or a cheater to be the representative, and head of your country.

Fist fight is the fairest competition, in the jungle all men should have no weapon equiped and fight the tiger and lion with barehand, it’s the fair fight. Assuming using spear, knife, gun, nuke is a cheating.
Btw human should fight with stick and stone but not with mouth fight.

No, it's not okay under any circumstances. We just need proof. I can't go around pointing to election fraud and have nothing when someone asks me for proof of actual ballots that were submitted fraudulently.

<<>>

Just curious what the attitudes were on this subject.

This is self moderated; vote based on your beliefs, prejudices, hates, whatever.

Please don't post more endless trump hate, just vote.