Is PayPal now feeling the pressure from Bitcoin?

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Quote from: Natuhant on October 07, 2017, 01:11:04 PM

Quote from: Zicadis on October 05, 2017, 06:57:21 PM

I like the tone the PayPal CEO used and his example ultimately points to cryptocurrencies which is the technology of tomorrow and if PayPal goes the blockchain way it could easily open up it's market and as a consolation improve its service delivery as there will be no waiting for checks or wait in ques and many more advantages

I think it will take time. The governments should declare legaility of the Bitcoin before the Paypal and other financial organisations to use bitcoin.

I do not think the issue that paypal has with bitcoin is its legal status, it is the fact that bitcoin is a nonreversible payment method, which means they cannot offer the same kind of protection they normally offer to their clients, paypal most of the time sides with the consumer, while bitcoin sides with the business and the provider of services, so they need to figure out how to deal with this if they want to accept bitcoin.

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I do not think that bitcoin is a threat to this payment system, because not everyone knows about bitcoin or are afraid to use it, or they still have to use other electronic currencies because bitcoin is not common in their country.

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Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on September 26, 2017, 09:51:13 AM

Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

THey have enough capital to acquire decentralized platform shortly and name it PayBTCPal))

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Quote from: Siren on October 05, 2017, 09:30:59 PM

Quote from: Zicadis on October 05, 2017, 06:57:21 PM

I like the tone the PayPal CEO used and his example ultimately points to cryptocurrencies which is the technology of tomorrow and if PayPal goes the blockchain way it could easily open up it's market and as a consolation improve its service delivery as there will be no waiting for checks or wait in ques and many more advantages

He is really pro crypto or pro blockchain I guess. You can't really blame his as blockchain will really revolutionizes how data or information is handled. If they feel the pressure? I guess. But bitcoin has not yet been mass adopted so it will still take a couple of years before they can really feel the pressure. However, in terms of remittances, bitcoin has already established itself on that industry. But for micro and online payments, this remains to be seen. And this is what Satoshi's original vision, to eliminate third party. Hope that one day this vision could be fulfilled.

They must know that bitcoin is the future, I’m sure they understand it, they just need to figure out a way to integrate bitcoin in their services, that is going to be difficult but they need to find a way, if they do not then that means that paypal and bitcoin are going to be competitors and even if Paypal is a giant they must understand that there is no way to beat bitcoin in the long term.

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Quote from: King Sastro on October 07, 2017, 09:35:16 AM

Definitely, bitcoin transaction value continues to increase significantly and this is a threat to paypal and all internet payment system even western union. I'm sure that 5 more years bitcoin will beat paypal.

Bitcoin's increasing price isn't exactly a threat to PayPal, its usage is. Currently, PayPal offers more convenience and usability, and due to its adoption, you can use it to pay for your goods basically in +75% of all web shops. On top of that, consumers enjoy buyers protection, which is quite a major selling point. Bitcoin needs a lot more to surpass PayPal when it comes to the afore mentioned aspects -- an increasing value alone won't do it. People actually need to use Bitcoin in the way people use PayPal, and as long as that isn't happening, PayPal, despite it's annoyances, will be doing just fine.

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Quote from: Zicadis on October 05, 2017, 06:57:21 PM

I like the tone the PayPal CEO used and his example ultimately points to cryptocurrencies which is the technology of tomorrow and if PayPal goes the blockchain way it could easily open up it's market and as a consolation improve its service delivery as there will be no waiting for checks or wait in ques and many more advantages

I think it will take time. The governments should declare legaility of the Bitcoin before the Paypal and other financial organisations to use bitcoin.

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As a freelancer, I'm still using PayPal's services for my paycheck, and I agree that it is painstakingly long, expensive and incovenient to go to the bank, queue for a long line only to get my money with a cut for the tx fee. I've discussed to my clients if I can receive payments in bitcoin, but they refused since we are using Upwork's platform so that would be a kind of cheating on their end. If several other services and big companies start to include bitcoin as a form of payment together with Paypal, bitcoin would be used more often only if these people think outside the norm and see the benefits of using bitcoins.

ivrynx

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i think paypal is now getting hurt because of bitcoin, even though the value of bitcoin falls or rises, people still uses bitcoin as means of transactions, and in time, since both paypal and bitcoin uses the internet, paypal may not only get hurt,but eventually might die,but come to think of it, the creator of paypal, may also incorporate bitcoin as payment, however, i highly doubt that they will do it, since they already have agreements with banks, and part of it maybe, not to accept other forms of payment except theirs, and in time i think the owner of paypal will soon create his own crypot coin, knowing the mark cuban already did created his, and this billionaires doesn't want the other one to take all the profit, i think in time, we might see this happening, but for now, they should really reconsider bringing bitcoin as payment in their system, since bitcoin is the future, and they wouldn't want to left out.

King Sastro

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Definitely, bitcoin transaction value continues to increase significantly and this is a threat to paypal and all internet payment system even western union. I'm sure that 5 more years bitcoin will beat paypal.

Silberman

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Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

Yep extremely familiar but they require that you connect a debit card before you can do anything so anyone with access to banking services does not need paypal, the only advantage of paypal is that you give an email instead of your credit card details, so they are only marginally better than a bank, when bitcoin is way better since it allows you to be your own bank.

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Quote from: Zicadis on October 05, 2017, 06:57:21 PM

I like the tone the PayPal CEO used and his example ultimately points to cryptocurrencies which is the technology of tomorrow and if PayPal goes the blockchain way it could easily open up it's market and as a consolation improve its service delivery as there will be no waiting for checks or wait in ques and many more advantages

You are right but he needs to get a lot of approval from the government sectors because he is doing legal with the people. Before integrating the blockchain tech he needs to check whether it is useful to people who he is providing the services.

ihsanskanzaone

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of course, because the selling price of bitcoin tends to increase higher and is a tool of transaction easier to use than on paypal so that the number of bitcoin users I think is higher than the paypal. but bitcoin also has a weakness that bitcoin has not been received in all countries, not yet have a clear office. But still, bitcoin becomes something valuable rather than paypal because it can be a good investment tool as well as a tool of transactions that management is not difficult so anyone can have bitcoin without having to deal with the government.

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i think he is now feeling the pressure from bitcoin because he know bitcoin in the past with the benefit and how it works so he might be afraid like other people said. I think soon paypal will integrate their system with the blockchain after they learned bitcoin and they are capable to use bitcoin with their system. with bitcoin inside them, I think paypal will become more bigger than yesterday and they can gives their support for bitcoin community too.

jekjekman

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Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

He already scared with Bitcoin since he banned the transaction between it because he foresee that Bitcoin will take over what Paypal does for so how many years now as a one of the first online payment platform in the internet and the whole world, even me is a paypal user back then and I experience a huge minus in my original money there because of their fees and an unreasonable converting fee rate from dollars to my local money.

I just did a little research and I found at that the market capitalization of Bitcoin is now bigger than Paypal considering that Bitcoin is younger that Paypal when it comes to their existence, this shows that how strong is cryptocurrencies now comparing to the old school payment platform.

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Quote from: Granxis on October 06, 2017, 01:37:21 AM

I like Paypal since the first day I used it, but I do not use it anymore because it does not do much innovation. Free debit card issuance is a good behavior. Also for me, BitCoin is now taking PayPal's place.

I think it will take time for Bitcoin to take paypal place, aside from that paypal can just integrate Bitcoin in their service or they will just create their own blockchain. As on of the reply here stated, that would bring innovation to paypal in terms of service delivery. Aside from that, it can also compete with Bitcoin and somehow threatened it.

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I like Paypal since the first day I used it, but I do not use it anymore because it does not do much innovation. Free debit card issuance is a good behavior. Also for me, BitCoin is now taking PayPal's place.

jorneyflair

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Whether or not the CEO is pro bitcoin or anti bitcoin, it still cannot be ignored the fact that bitcoin is taking a lot of business away from paypal. Either paypal come out with a product that is significantly better than bitcoin(unlikely) or they'll have to adapt to the new landscape.

Sooner or later, paypal will have to address the issue of bitcoin directly. Bitcoin prices are probably going to continue to go up, and when it does, people will flood out of paypal with its numerous complaints, and into bitcoin.

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Quote from: BitMaxz on October 05, 2017, 06:49:24 PM

Quote from: Nazmul012 on September 28, 2017, 08:35:08 AM

obviously yes because of bitcoin is now getting more popular and valuable than paypal. besides by depositing with bitcoin we can see our money is automatically increasing without doing anything. so of course people would like to choice bitcoin instead of paypal. so really i think paypal is now feeling pressure for bitcoin...

I think paypal will never be pressure because most of people are still using paypal i have lots of friends both bitcoin and paypal using it for different interest so it will be still depends in your interest but bitcoin will be still be a main to be use as legit payment gateway for any business..
So why paypal will feeling pressure about bitcoin.. for me no they are not feeling pressure from bitcoin..
I was using them both with different benefits and interest i need since i can't join in other affiliate sites with bitcoin and only paypal are mostly payment option for almost affiliate sites..

agree, i think that paypal is still the best when it comes to sending or buying online because using paypal is instant and fast without the hassel of waiting for the transaction to be confirmed and also less or no hidden fees unlike bitcoin which is the fees are high and sometimes expensive when bitcoins value is rising and the transaction takes time to arrive.

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Quote from: Zicadis on October 05, 2017, 06:57:21 PM

I like the tone the PayPal CEO used and his example ultimately points to cryptocurrencies which is the technology of tomorrow and if PayPal goes the blockchain way it could easily open up it's market and as a consolation improve its service delivery as there will be no waiting for checks or wait in ques and many more advantages

He is really pro crypto or pro blockchain I guess. You can't really blame his as blockchain will really revolutionizes how data or information is handled. If they feel the pressure? I guess. But bitcoin has not yet been mass adopted so it will still take a couple of years before they can really feel the pressure. However, in terms of remittances, bitcoin has already established itself on that industry. But for micro and online payments, this remains to be seen. And this is what Satoshi's original vision, to eliminate third party. Hope that one day this vision could be fulfilled.

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I like the tone the PayPal CEO used and his example ultimately points to cryptocurrencies which is the technology of tomorrow and if PayPal goes the blockchain way it could easily open up it's market and as a consolation improve its service delivery as there will be no waiting for checks or wait in ques and many more advantages

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Quote from: Nazmul012 on September 28, 2017, 08:35:08 AM

obviously yes because of bitcoin is now getting more popular and valuable than paypal. besides by depositing with bitcoin we can see our money is automatically increasing without doing anything. so of course people would like to choice bitcoin instead of paypal. so really i think paypal is now feeling pressure for bitcoin...

I think paypal will never be pressure because most of people are still using paypal i have lots of friends both bitcoin and paypal using it for different interest so it will be still depends in your interest but bitcoin will be still be a main to be use as legit payment gateway for any business..
So why paypal will feeling pressure about bitcoin.. for me no they are not feeling pressure from bitcoin..
I was using them both with different benefits and interest i need since i can't join in other affiliate sites with bitcoin and only paypal are mostly payment option for almost affiliate sites..

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Quote from: CryptoBjorn on October 05, 2017, 05:33:16 PM

It's rather that countries are feeling the pressure of bitcoin. Remember bitcoin overrun paypal's market cap a year ago. Now you see how important bitcoin is because countries/governement decide it's time to regulate it. First ICO's then Bitcoin, then crypto itself.

Bitcoin's market cap overtaking the PayPal stock market cap doesn't mean anything. It's about the actual level of acceptance and usage that it enjoys, and in that aspect, PayPal is quite the leader by a far distance.

Ultimately, I do agree with the fact that governments and banks are the one that should be worried. At the end of the day, that's already the case, and it perfectly shows as governments are pushing through regulations.

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Quote from: dead_m92 on October 05, 2017, 03:34:44 PM

PayPal is unique, and you can not compare bitcoin to paypal because they both are different things, and they both has their own customers, you know that paypal has a lot of reputation since too many years, and a lot of people trust them, so i dont think that bitcoin is taking them their customers.
Anyway, those people are free to use the payment processor that they want to.

Paypal has its own function and doesnt need to compare with bitcoin. Paypal has its own use, features, and advantages to the users so it really differ to bitcoin. And yes it doesnt need to compare with bitcoin as paypal is existing since.

CryptoBjorn

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It's rather that countries are feeling the pressure of bitcoin. Remember bitcoin overrun paypal's market cap a year ago. Now you see how important bitcoin is because countries/governement decide it's time to regulate it. First ICO's then Bitcoin, then crypto itself.

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Quote from: suvo05 on September 28, 2017, 08:46:36 AM

Paypal and bitcoin are quite different . I don't think bitcoin will do any harm in the business of paypal. Paypal is lot more popular and it connects the bank with the countries and lot more easy to understand . And bitcoin becoming a valuable asset than a currency people are buying bitcoin to hold and gain profit from it.

Bitcoin does not need to do any harm to the business model of paypal ,they are indeed doing that themselves by banning users accounts and freezing their accounts without any court order and if you have a huge amount of money stashed in your paypal account then it will be frozen for a while and it will take a long time to get a response from them,bitcoin is a solution for all the issues we had in the past and i am glad about it.

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Quote from: 777Bitcoin on September 27, 2017, 03:50:24 AM

I also think so, paypal is now decreasing its users due to the existence of bitcoin and it will be decreasing every year as the price of bitcoin and its users is increasing. We can't deny that fact even they will claim the other way around. Sometimes it will all closed down and those centralized online financial platform be gone.

Very doubtful theory. PayPal has nothing to worry about - Bitcoin offers a terrible user experience and using BTC instead of centralized payment operator is kinda difficult.
Suffice to say that none of the big merchants accepting bitcoin is dealing with direct blockchain transactions, and instead are using bitcoin payment provider (BitPay, BitBay etc.) to handle their BTC payments.
PayPal is still a better way for people to pay, it is cheaper than Bitcoin, usually faster and have idiot-proof features modern dumb society crave for - viva chargeback!

dead_m92

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PayPal is unique, and you can not compare bitcoin to paypal because they both are different things, and they both has their own customers, you know that paypal has a lot of reputation since too many years, and a lot of people trust them, so i dont think that bitcoin is taking them their customers.
Anyway, those people are free to use the payment processor that they want to.

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Quote from: Fatunad on October 05, 2017, 02:56:08 PM

Quote from: AjithBtc on September 30, 2017, 11:03:56 AM

PayPal has gained its own user base through its unique features. Maybe the technology on which PayPal function might be an outdated, but this won't create pressure over the service provider. Maybe over the years to come the technology might be used for an efficient functioning.

They would definitely upgrade since they are already aware on the things around them when it comes into new way payment system which they can able to see it on bitcoin.They might be worried on its existence or not.No one knows since we cant able to read on whats on their minds but for sure they would do such step and wont easily fall down without making a fight.

I believe that they already foresee that about they system upgrades for the type of payments that they had. That's why they been able to stabilize their services to people who has lots of options to invest with bitcoin economy, and we really don't have those clues how people will judge about it. The important thing is we must observe the current scenario and let paypal handle situations that creates tension and speculative ideas.

Fatunad

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Quote from: AjithBtc on September 30, 2017, 11:03:56 AM

PayPal has gained its own user base through its unique features. Maybe the technology on which PayPal function might be an outdated, but this won't create pressure over the service provider. Maybe over the years to come the technology might be used for an efficient functioning.

They would definitely upgrade since they are already aware on the things around them when it comes into new way payment system which they can able to see it on bitcoin.They might be worried on its existence or not.No one knows since we cant able to read on whats on their minds but for sure they would do such step and wont easily fall down without making a fight.

Sylenth

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Both paypal and bitcoin works on same principle of introducing a new online currency,what make both different is that paypal works in centralized manner while bitcoin in decentralized. Bitcoin works with management of private keys and user remains anonymous and its of no concern whatever user buy or sell with the money earned,while on the other hand paypal does not allow buying of illegal things and it keeps an eye on goods purchased.so in bitcoin data is protected from company as well as possible searches of that data from law enforcement.

anyone who knows the history of bitcoin will know about Wikileaks,major payment providers were persuaded to block donations to Wikileaks from around the world, which led the company to accepting the censorship-resistant bitcoin,giving boost to bitcoin, and due to increase use of bitcoin,company feel pressure and itmay do something in future so that both can work together .

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Of course yes and no doubt that not only paypal but also other payment method like as paypal are feeling pressure and in trouble due to people reduce to using those payment method because of bitcoin... i think...

AjithBtc

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PayPal has gained its own user base through its unique features. Maybe the technology on which PayPal function might be an outdated, but this won't create pressure over the service provider. Maybe over the years to come the technology might be used for an efficient functioning.

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Quote from: timerland on September 30, 2017, 04:34:57 AM

Well, i would not be surprised, at all, if PayPal tried to deny their users to transaction with funds in their accounts on PayPal to trade with bitcoin in the near future. Bitcoin has taken a large part of profits from PayPal and is only going to continue doing so.

Have they? Coinbase is charging 3.99% for sales to PayPal accounts. And if you've watched the Currency Exchange forum there has actually been significant trading activity on Paypal because of Bitcoin.

Quote from: timerland on September 30, 2017, 04:34:57 AM

Plus, as bitcoin has climbed in value recently, more and more PayPal users have ditched PayPal for bitcoin.

I don't think that Paypal users are using their service to make speculative capital gains. That's not the point. The point is to make reversible electronic payments that are widely accepted. Bitcoin isn't really competing for that.

timerland

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Well, i would not be surprised, at all, if PayPal tried to deny their users to transaction with funds in their accounts on PayPal to trade with bitcoin in the near future. Bitcoin has taken a large part of profits from PayPal and is only going to continue doing so.

Plus, as bitcoin has climbed in value recently, more and more PayPal users have ditched PayPal for bitcoin.

As i said, this trend should continue to be the case in the future. PayPal is one of the shittiest payment processors out there.

exstasie

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Quote from: senne on September 29, 2017, 02:11:17 PM

Definitely, Bitcoin can be one of the biggest rival of PayPal and this is simply, because Bitcoin is way much better than PayPal, like in PayPal there so many barriers while transferring money from one person to another, it can never give you the amount of privacy one enjoys in Bitcoin.

There really aren't that many barriers. But indeed, privacy is superior in Bitcoin. There are altcoins which provide even better privacy, though. It's very important to be careful about UTXO selection with Bitcoin if you want to maintain anonymity.

Quote from: senne on September 29, 2017, 02:11:17 PM

Also bitcoin being decentralized, nearly available in every country and having lower transfer fees. So much plus points one gets when transferring money from Bitcoins, so PayPal feeling the pressure is common as they simply cannot match the level of Bitcoin.

In many cases, there are no fees to use Paypal. For instance, US users can send money back and forth (including to and from bank accounts) for free. Again, I don't think that Bitcoin and Paypal are targeting the same markets. For the foreseeable future, Bitcoin is not viable for high volume remittance. And even if it was, Paypal was never particularly competitive in this space, hence the OP.

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Definitely, Bitcoin can be one of the biggest rival of PayPal and this is simply, because Bitcoin is way much better than PayPal, like in PayPal there so many barriers while transferring money from one person to another, it can never give you the amount of privacy one enjoys in Bitcoin. Also bitcoin being decentralized, nearly available in every country and having lower transfer fees. So much plus points one gets when transferring money from Bitcoins, so PayPal feeling the pressure is common as they simply cannot match the level of Bitcoin.

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Quote from: lovesybitz on September 27, 2017, 05:00:52 AM

Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on September 26, 2017, 09:51:13 AM

Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

I don't think that in the near future both will function on joint platform. Unless, Paypal will adapt the concept system of bitcoin has it right now.
Because there are such a things were bitcoin do something were Paypal are can't able to do it while bitcoin are much capable to give an opportunity to anyone.

They are both good in their specific area, btc for savings and Paypal for me for payment whenever buying online since btc were mot yet capable of foin this since there is only few who uses it as mofe of payment as of this moment.

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Paypal and bitcoin are quite different . I don't think bitcoin will do any harm in the business of paypal. Paypal is lot more popular and it connects the bank with the countries and lot more easy to understand . And bitcoin becoming a valuable asset than a currency people are buying bitcoin to hold and gain profit from it.

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Sounds like bitcoin. Grin

I have tried to compare this before and I have saved a lot in my calculation between using Paypal or Bitcoin.
Their damn fees including those money transfer company are getting to my nerves. When you send money almost every time you will see how much they could get annually from just a single person.
No way to that. I would rather use the bitcoin technology where I am the one who is on control of the fee.

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obviously yes because of bitcoin is now getting more popular and valuable than paypal. besides by depositing with bitcoin we can see our money is automatically increasing without doing anything. so of course people would like to choice bitcoin instead of paypal. so really i think paypal is now feeling pressure for bitcoin...

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on September 26, 2017, 09:51:13 AM

Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

Yeah, he said a long the line that this is his vision for Paypal. But I think that they can't ignore the fact that bitcoin has gaining more popular specially this year and they are in a big challenge from it. I also disagree that they will function on a joint platform. There no way a decentralized system like bitcoin could work with Paypal. Unlikely to happen.

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Quote from: manselr on September 26, 2017, 10:40:35 AM

Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

There's no competition until we have lightning networks. Until then, you cant sell bitcoin as a solution for poor people to send and recieve money in a decentralized way, because (unlike what scammers such as Roger Ver and anyone supporting BCash will tell you) a decentralized blockchain is a finite and scarce resource, therefore it's not cheap, this is why we need second layers like LN to really take over the entire planet. Then we will outcompete everyone else and PayPal will either join BTC or go bankrupt because no one is going to be paying any fees to send money anywhere.

Paypal is a scam because it's tied to the legacy banking system, yet they market themselves as "internet payments". This was never true, it was never true anywhere until Bitcoin was invented.

You should see there is a huge competition already and should you take a closer look at the article, you won't miss to notice that almost every statement made there are responses to the questions Bitcoin have raised and addressing. Tell me since when did they realize that managing and moving money ought to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged or the affluent?

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Quote from: pixie85 on September 27, 2017, 08:43:16 PM

People were surely complaining about the fees. That's basically what stopped me from using paypal. They have their own transfer fees and conversion fees on top of it if you're receiving a foreign currency. It's strange that people are still using them when they're so expensive. The market is changing so they will have to change too or get devoured.

People go for the payment option that offers them speed, convenience and a wide level of acceptance - PayPal nicely fits in that category. I have seen plenty of people complaining about PayPal for various reasons, but yet they continue to use that service, because as I pointed out, it enjoys a wide level of acceptance. Basically any webshop here allows people to pay with PayPal, and if you see people selling stuff on the local market site here, they also happen to accept PayPal in most cases. It clearly shows that despite the annoyances of PayPal, people aren't willing to ditch it for something else. As long as that isn't changing, we'll see PayPal remain a market leader as payment platform.

RedX

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No. Paypal is already established and most of their customers are freelancers because they are the most trusted partners of freelancing sites around the world. Bitcoin and Paypal have both benefits and advantages on their own. For me, they are both outstanding when it comes to financial usage..

pixie85

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People were surely complaining about the fees. That's basically what stopped me from using paypal. They have their own transfer fees and conversion fees on top of it if you're receiving a foreign currency. It's strange that people are still using them when they're so expensive. The market is changing so they will have to change too or get devoured.

exstasie

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Quote from: giveen on September 27, 2017, 02:22:52 AM

No PayPal has said they are happy to team up with coimbase if they ever felt the pressure why would they allow coinbase users to withdraw to PayPal in first place , PayPal can't be replaced it is a must for the online community we can safely make purchases without the risk of being scammed , accepted in more than million online stores and is centralised on other hand btc is more like a investment people will most likely spend their funds in PayPal than in btc.

That's my take. Paypal is not feeling any pressure from Bitcoin. They aren't really competitors. Paypal's value is primarily that it offers reversible payments. Could it be more effective for remittance? Sure, and that's what they are suggesting here. But Bitcoin is not competition for the remittance industry, which is characterized by low-value, high-margin cross-border payments. Bitcoin is terrible for low-value payments, anyway.

Maybe in a year or two, remittances will be technically feasible given a functioning Lightning Network. But even then, it could take years for Lightning to be accessible enough to global populations that Bitcoin could be more than a tiny blip on the radar re: remittances.

SaintFlow

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The first is by definition not flawed.

Just let me know when you do ebay & webshops with a click n password.
Just used Paypal 3 times today. I will not copy and paste shit or wait
for 6 blocks to be mined in China while the transfer fees are Tongue

Sure bitcoin is ... was ... well it is valuable. But somehow this blocks put
chains on commerce.

mozillaspez

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Quote from: maokoto on September 27, 2017, 04:43:46 AM

Paypal has an edge. It is more widely known and used than Bitcoin right now, and if BTC gains popularity, paypal could include it as a currency (just as it includes currencies from several parts of the world). It does not have to dissappear with bitcoin really, but to evolve.

If i tell you about some countries where PayPal is not working but bitcoin do so what? Do you believe that or not ofcourse you do because bitcoin is going very high and people coming to attract so if it is about PayPal and Bitcoin then people will prefer bitcoin rather than using PayPal.

Karpeles

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Bankers wanting more customers(= profits) for them and more power over people(if they are in the financial system then they can be more controllable and they will know their finances).

To be honest I don't know if so many people going into the current financial system would be good or bad.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: maokoto on September 27, 2017, 04:43:46 AM

Paypal has an edge. It is more widely known and used than Bitcoin right now, and if BTC gains popularity, paypal could include it as a currency (just as it includes currencies from several parts of the world). It does not have to dissappear with bitcoin really, but to evolve.

They won't include it. They're treating it like an enemy taking over.
Paypal's fees are so ridiculous that even when BTC was bottlenecked a few months back and fees kept going up like crazy, they still were lower than Paypal's. Once people get comfortable with using BTC and start trusting it more PP will go bankrupt.

allohha

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Quote from: LeGaulois on September 27, 2017, 12:43:31 PM

This has been the Paypal ideology for years. Paypal is not interested to just provide a payment processor to people. Paypal has always made dream to be the major bank using their unique banking system. If you visit the Paypal labs in USA you will see some crazy things that they are working on. Remember the ideology of the Elites? One bank for all. This is what Paypal is building about.

The fact is that to date almost half of all trading operations are online and even ordinary people start buying and selling different goods through the network. Therefore, I believe that the PayPal payment system of very many people satisfies its functions. Yes Bitcoin has not yet reached the hands of humanity, But it's a matter of time. Although PayPal has its share today is not bad.

DustyRah

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Quote from: maokoto on September 27, 2017, 04:43:46 AM

Paypal has an edge. It is more widely known and used than Bitcoin right now, and if BTC gains popularity, paypal could include it as a currency (just as it includes currencies from several parts of the world). It does not have to dissappear with bitcoin really, but to evolve.

To be honest, no one knows PayPal in most of the countries in the world. Try South America or Asia and no one uses it. EVERYONE knows Bitcoin these days though most don't use it.

PayPal can never work like a digital currency because they are forced to follow the laws of each country and that pretty much jacks them up and keeps them tied up in terms of cross border transfers.

DustyRah

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PayPal is crap. They don't even have a phone number where you can call and handle matters. You can just open a dispute and hope and pray that your matter is handled if anything at all. They are no different from any other payment processor and charge charge back fees and so on in a cold blooded manner.

On top of that they report off everything to big daddy IRS. They are obviously scared of Bitcoin as well as apps like Ca$h so they are trying to drive their mobile app before they become outdated.

I remember asking them a question and the response back to me after 2 days was asking me what the question meant. They did not even attempt to put the word into Google for which the first hit was their own website documentation.

They will never make it into markets like China and so on so they will never be the world bank or whatever they are trying.

LeGaulois

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This has been the Paypal ideology for years. Paypal is not interested to just provide a payment processor to people. Paypal has always made dream to be the major bank using their unique banking system. If you visit the Paypal labs in USA you will see some crazy things that they are working on. Remember the ideology of the Elites? One bank for all. This is what Paypal is building about.

lovesybitz

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Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on September 26, 2017, 09:51:13 AM

Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

I don't think that in the near future both will function on joint platform. Unless, Paypal will adapt the concept system of bitcoin has it right now.
Because there are such a things were bitcoin do something were Paypal are can't able to do it while bitcoin are much capable to give an opportunity to anyone.

maokoto

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✪ NEXCHANGE | BTC, LTC, ETH & DOGE ✪

Paypal has an edge. It is more widely known and used than Bitcoin right now, and if BTC gains popularity, paypal could include it as a currency (just as it includes currencies from several parts of the world). It does not have to dissappear with bitcoin really, but to evolve.

Proton2233

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PayPal will never do. They are part of the state of the monetary system. You can't transfer money from the account, PayPal on the same account in another country. We can talk about making payments with bitcoins. With the development of bitcoin in systems like PayPal will lose its relevance and disappear.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

i actually agree with Syke!
why would PayPal even feel pressured about bitcoin. they just can add the option to buy/sell/send/convert/... bitcoin through their service officially if someday they felt any sort of "pressure" and then make a lot of money from it!
fiat will always be with us and we will continue using it even if bitcoin grew too big. and people must use fiat to buy bitcoin (unless they are getting paid) it might as well be through PayPal! just as it is currently thought banks and they are enjoying the transaction fees they take when people transfer money to and from exchanges.

BitHodler

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Quote from: pooya87 on September 26, 2017, 11:43:27 PM

there is going to be 1 big advantage for PayPal compared to bitcoin for many years to come and that is the fact that in order to transfer money with PayPal you already have the money and you just use their services to move it, but in order to do it with bitcoin you have to have bitcoin and that conversion takes money (the fees of buying it with fiat) and not everyone has it.

PayPal definitely offers certain advantages over Bitcoin, but we should not forget that a lot people on a daily basis complain about frozen balances, extra requirements in terms of verification, charge backs, and the list goes on.

Especially the charge backs are what worries the sellers, where some webshops might even end up requiring you to send in your ID and such in order to let you purchase the goods you want.

Bitcoin needs to mature even further, but that's just a matter of time. I am quite sure that in the future it will be a whole lot easier to obtain Bitcoin and to directly spend it if you so wish ~ patience is the key here.

777Bitcoin

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I also think so, paypal is now decreasing its users due to the existence of bitcoin and it will be decreasing every year as the price of bitcoin and its users is increasing. We can't deny that fact even they will claim the other way around. Sometimes it will all closed down and those centralized online financial platform be gone.

jakezyrus

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Quote from: pooya87 on September 26, 2017, 11:43:27 PM

there is going to be 1 big advantage for PayPal compared to bitcoin for many years to come and that is the fact that in order to transfer money with PayPal you already have the money and you just use their services to move it, but in order to do it with bitcoin you have to have bitcoin and that conversion takes money (the fees of buying it with fiat) and not everyone has it.

agree, paypal has still many advantages compared to bitcoin like faster transaction and no converstion fees also instant money transfer when sending or recieving unlike bitcoins you need to pay for transaction fees plus it takes so long time to be confirmed on the blockchain. therefore i could say that paypal are still the best to use online.

alyssa85

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Paypal is under pressure from Western Union and Visa/Mastercard.

It's not under pressure from Bitcoin because bitcoin fees are so large, hardly anyone uses it. Here are the number of transactions in the last 24 hours:

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactions.html

249.871 transactions. Paypal does that in about 20 minutes.

SimpeleSimpele

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paypal user reduce and leave from paypal not related bitcoin, paypal user ussualy to buy in store online or advertising network bussiness

paypal user reduce maybe about sending fee is high and feature dispute

giveen

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No PayPal has said they are happy to team up with coimbase if they ever felt the pressure why would they allow coinbase users to withdraw to PayPal in first place , PayPal can't be replaced it is a must for the online community we can safely make purchases without the risk of being scammed , accepted in more than million online stores and is centralised on other hand btc is more like a investment people will most likely spend their funds in PayPal than in btc.

pooya87

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there is going to be 1 big advantage for PayPal compared to bitcoin for many years to come and that is the fact that in order to transfer money with PayPal you already have the money and you just use their services to move it, but in order to do it with bitcoin you have to have bitcoin and that conversion takes money (the fees of buying it with fiat) and not everyone has it.

orions.belt19

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Quote from: player514 on September 26, 2017, 12:19:48 PM

Quote from: manselr on September 26, 2017, 10:40:35 AM

Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

There's no competition until we have lightning networks. Until then, you cant sell bitcoin as a solution for poor people to send and recieve money in a decentralized way, because (unlike what scammers such as Roger Ver and anyone supporting BCash will tell you) a decentralized blockchain is a finite and scarce resource, therefore it's not cheap, this is why we need second layers like LN to really take over the entire planet. Then we will outcompete everyone else and PayPal will either join BTC or go bankrupt because no one is going to be paying any fees to send money anywhere.

Paypal is a scam because it's tied to the legacy banking system, yet they market themselves as "internet payments". This was never true, it was never true anywhere until Bitcoin was invented.

Yup. I agree with that first statement. I wouldn't really categorize PayPal and Bitcoin as competitors until Bitcoin can par up with PayPal's features. There is a lot of work to be done on the confirmation speeds and the Bitcoin technology. As we see confirms come through instantly, we can then accurately compare PayPal and Bitcoin. Until then, it doesn't make sense for the average man to USE Bitcoin to pay his peers.

Paypal and Bitcoin are both very different from each other and I agree that it is incomparable at the moment. Perhaps at this current time and period, Bitcoin cannot be accepted as a payment to every single common man, much less to those who are less fortunate. Bitcoin has revolutionized the concept of "internet payments" and PayPal needs to keep up even at this early stage of Bitcoin that is in.

I believe the statement made by the Paypal CEO was made just so that they could keep up with the growing hype and popularity for Bitcoin. Surely, they're scared of getting left out and as a competitive company, they should keep up with the current happenings or else they may be overthrown. It's quite possible that in the near future, Bitcoin will be integrated in PayPal instead of becoming a competitor for them. With the increasing innovations and technological advancements made for cryptocurrency and bitcoin, companies such as PayPal would have to adapt as well.

Kingofbitcoin12345

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Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on September 26, 2017, 09:51:13 AM

Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

That would be a good event if it happens.. And I agree that PayPal has enormous numbers of users that is widespread in every county's.. But things is getting rougher than before when bitcoin still have few dollars a piece because at this price more businesses is eyeing in emerging they're centralized platform to a bitcoin featured one..

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: Syke on September 26, 2017, 12:55:04 PM

PayPal has nothing to fear from bitcoin. PayPal is a middleman between credit cards, bank accounts, countries, and currencies. Bitcoin could be simply another currency for them.

But they should be aware that with bitcoin all of their services can be filled by bitcoin. There are bitcoin debit cards and you can also link it to your visa card, we can be our very own bank with the wallets that we have. I wonder if they are going to consider adopting bitcoin with their services. I know they are aware with bitcoin since before but we can't tell if there is really a competition for them and bitcoin.

BigBoy89

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Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

IMO PayPal will never feel threaten from any crypto-currently in next 2-5 years. Cryptos are still for average+ technical guys, not for the mass. Your grandpa could have PP to pay some stuff online, but can he use bitcoin? Or your high-school teacher?

Cryptos need to achieve much deeper acceptance and the future of mass coin is some alt with 10-60s confirmation time. Nobody will wait 30min to pay a beer.

aso118

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PayPal pretty much started with lofty ideals of reducing transaction fees. But they then got struck by know your customer and anti money laundering obligations. That killed their dream.

Syke

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PayPal has nothing to fear from bitcoin. PayPal is a middleman between credit cards, bank accounts, countries, and currencies. Bitcoin could be simply another currency for them.

player514

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Quote from: manselr on September 26, 2017, 10:40:35 AM

Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

There's no competition until we have lightning networks. Until then, you cant sell bitcoin as a solution for poor people to send and recieve money in a decentralized way, because (unlike what scammers such as Roger Ver and anyone supporting BCash will tell you) a decentralized blockchain is a finite and scarce resource, therefore it's not cheap, this is why we need second layers like LN to really take over the entire planet. Then we will outcompete everyone else and PayPal will either join BTC or go bankrupt because no one is going to be paying any fees to send money anywhere.

Paypal is a scam because it's tied to the legacy banking system, yet they market themselves as "internet payments". This was never true, it was never true anywhere until Bitcoin was invented.

Yup. I agree with that first statement. I wouldn't really categorize PayPal and Bitcoin as competitors until Bitcoin can par up with PayPal's features. There is a lot of work to be done on the confirmation speeds and the Bitcoin technology. As we see confirms come through instantly, we can then accurately compare PayPal and Bitcoin. Until then, it doesn't make sense for the average man to USE Bitcoin to pay his peers.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on September 26, 2017, 09:51:13 AM

Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

I wont agree on that on which paypal and bitcoin would merge together since we do really see that they are really different.You cant merge a centralized thing into a decentralized one which is bitcoin. Pressure for paypal is really there since they know the capabilities of bitcoin when it comes into a new innovative payment system which is really great compared to them.

warrior333

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Why do you need the Association of bitcoin with PayPal? Bitcoin can provide us with more opportunities than any payment system. PayPal is a past stage. As soon as a real opportunity to earn and spend bitcoins on the Internet about PayPal will be forgotten.

iron talon

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Quote from: ASHLIUSZ on September 26, 2017, 09:51:13 AM

Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

It should be feeling pressure from bitcoin and blockchain related projects such as Monetha etc.

These are happening and paypal is a centralized one and it will try to eliminate new growing projects probably.

manselr

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Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

There's no competition until we have lightning networks. Until then, you cant sell bitcoin as a solution for poor people to send and recieve money in a decentralized way, because (unlike what scammers such as Roger Ver and anyone supporting BCash will tell you) a decentralized blockchain is a finite and scarce resource, therefore it's not cheap, this is why we need second layers like LN to really take over the entire planet. Then we will outcompete everyone else and PayPal will either join BTC or go bankrupt because no one is going to be paying any fees to send money anywhere.

Paypal is a scam because it's tied to the legacy banking system, yet they market themselves as "internet payments". This was never true, it was never true anywhere until Bitcoin was invented.

64dimensions

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Quote from: Torque on September 26, 2017, 09:28:41 AM

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

This is so CEOish in the sense that if it's my idea, it must be new. This putz is about 5 ICO's too late plus a cursory search: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/mobile-banking-takes-nigeria (from January 2012!)

ASHLIUSZ

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Last year the same CEO of PayPal gave an statement that if he has known about bitcoin and the innovation in the past, he would have used bitcoin as the platform. I don't think such a pressure is there for PayPal, because it has an large user base and functions on a centralized system. Maybe in future both will function on a joint platform.

Torque

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/paypal-ceo-expensive-poor-221202508.html

PayPal CEO Dan Schulman wants to make it easier for people, including those who live outside the financial system, to manage and move their money.

“There’s a saying that it’s expensive to be poor,” Schulman told Yahoo Finance in a recent interview at PayPal’s San Jose, California headquarters. “You want to cash a check, send money to a loved one, get credit, even pay your bills. For those who are outside the financial system — and there are over 70 million adults in the U.S. and over 2 billion people in the world — those basic consumer transactions can be incredibly time-consuming — you stand in line for 30 to 45 minutes — and very expensive.”

While the dollar costs of executing a financial transaction may seem reasonable for most, they can be quite high for those with very little income.

“On average, an underserved consumer spends 10% of their disposable income on unnecessary fees and interest rates,” he added. “So democratizing financial service is basically saying the following: We want managing and moving your money to be a right for all citizens, not just the privileged, or the affluent.[/b]”

Sound familiar? Wink

Topic: Is PayPal now feeling the pressure from Bitcoin? (Read 1719 times)