Topic: Is the government manipulating gold and silver prices? (Read 2357 times)

yes i think so that government manipulating gold and silver prices

Governments can not manipulate with gold or silver, because they do not have them. Goverments have state money in the bank, and that's all. Many banks have gold deposits, may be banks do something with gold, I do not know. 

I dont know if they can manipulate those ,gold and silver has a lot interest over the last years,they influence the market with their decisions but they being able to manipulate its another question,but its possible.Who hold the biggest reserves in gold,countries,soo i wouldnt be surprised at all if they were playing with the price all days.

Probably yes.

If gold and silver prices go up, that makes usd/eur weaker. On the other hand, China is in the game now and if China decides to give more support to gold and dump its FIAT, that move probably start wwiii.

This may be the main moral justification for govt. manipulation -- if people lose faith in fiat money, capital might flee in both directions, into precious metals, but also into goods, services, equities, real estate, etc., so inflation also goes up.

Long-term, though, gold suppression (just as under the gold standard) causes capital to move from gold to fiat money, and from there it tends to leak into goods, services, bank deposits, and riskier assets (indeed this is the desired result of the elites, and also the case historically.)  Thus the suppression of gold causes long-term inflation, but it does benefit the elites.

There is a possibilities that the government control it, because the inflation rate of in a country is also affected by the price of fiat and fiat also affected gold price, so government control the price so inflation rate is not up too high

 Virtual Gold market trading is manipulated by big banks and traders.it has been discovered ,main bank responsible for that fraud is Deutche .Bank.To avoid hard penalty DB agree to colaborate .It mans DB will sing who else are doing that

Governments may  manipulate price of silver and gold but the level that this manipulation can have effect is not clear.

No it is not the governments that manipulate the price of silver and god but it is because of demand and supply that the price is increasing and decreasing, if the demand is increased the price is increased and when the demand is decreased the price is decreased.

The elites of all countries benefit from the state-money system (but in different ways.)  Most developing countries prop up their own issuance of money and debt by some kind of pegging to reserve currencies.  So dollars play the role of gold for most countries.  The US benefits from being able to "print gold," and the developing countries benefit (temporarily) from stabilizing their system while they "create wealth" out of thin air by printing money and debt.

There may be disagreements and negotiations between the US and other countries, and reserves, and even gold buying, may occasionally be used as bargaining chips, but all elites have a strong incentive to keep this system stable.  Gold buying is generally slow, so as not to rock the boat.

Russia might have thumbed its nose at the US, somewhat, by buying gold faster, but, it just happened, oil prices collapsed and all the irritants of the US (Russia, Venezuela, ISIS) got hurt, hard.  (The instigator of the drop was a best friend of the US, the House of Saud -- I didn't say Saudi Arabia because it would be a stretch to say that country is a US ally, given its involvement in 9/11.)

I think it was a few years ago that a trader working in one of the major investment banks decided to turn coat.  He compiled detailed evidence to prove and show how silver was being suppressed by a group in that bank.  He submitted his case to the CFTC which promptly decided to ignore it.

Earlier, it was easy for the western nations (+ Japan) to suppress the prices of gold. But that is no longer the case. Other nations such as China and Russia have become major players, and these nations are hoarding vast amounts of gold. Russia has dumped tens of billions of USD worth of US treasury bonds last year. They used these funds to buy gold bullion bars.

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There may be more than one kind of manipulation happening.  The overnight "raids" at 3:00 AM are often talked about in the goldbug community, but I am not knowledgeable enough to really comment on them.

The more subtle kinds (to keep gold out of the hands of citizens) ma be much harder to detect.  Light, or even heavy, propaganda might play a role -- the MainStream Media poo-poos gold holders for example.

But what seals the deal for me re value of gold is its 5000 years as mankind's choice for Store of Value.

"They" are not having much success suppressing that.

I was also not prepared to believe in manipulation on the basis of motivation alone, even though I had my nagging suspicions.  But read books like "The Gold Cartel" or "The Gold War" and examine their evidence.

Shorting a huge amount of gold at 3AM while gold is rapidly going down is pretty clearly not an attempt to make money, even if that entity had made up its mind to offload or get into a position.

Looking at an even bigger picture, if the elites couldn't live without precious metal suppression for 300+ years (which was what the gold and silver standards essentially were,) we shouldn't expect them to do so during the last 40+ years.

i'm sure  all of these rumor created by the gold company to take advantage of the small percentage of people who fear huge losses that are willing to sell their gold at low prices. "this is old trick"

What you say is true, however just identifying a valid motivation for governments to suppress alternative currencies like precious metals does not serve as a proof that actual manipulation is happening. The manipulation debate is going on for years with goldbugs interpreting almost every single price slump as possible manipulation.

Before talking about "manipulation" taking place or not one has to define first, what "manipulation" really means. If you take a simplistic view you could say that any buy or sell order - no matter what quantity - is manipulation, because it has the potential to move the price in some direction...

I clearly see that precious metals are highly political commodities, proved by the fact that governments hoard them in their central banks. Because of this fact alone governments are market actors. But are they manipulators, simply because they are active in the market?

ya.ya.yo!

What part of government is doing that and in what ways? I think that regulation is generally keeping the price of certain assets more stable since it's riskier to manipulate the price but I don't think that goverment agencies would have any interest to manipulate any asset directly.

They must suppress the prices of gold and silver.  The political and financial elites of the richest countries of the world system, i.e. the US, Japan, euro zone, Britain, etc. who benefit the most from central planning of money and finance, can't afford to have gold and silver continuously go up.

If people saw gold and silver always going up, they would flee to the metals for store of value, and the entire asset-value-based system would either implode or at least be seriously constrained, so the elites couldn't collect nearly as much power and wealth by issuing paper assets.

After the collapse of all gold standards by 1971, the elites managed long-running periods when gold prices were either flat or going down, while paper money collected interest.  Only during the short periods when events forced them to lose control did gold go up significantly.  Over the long run, between $35/ounce in 1971 and $1200/ounce today, the dollar has lost more than 97% of its value against gold.

which goverment you talking about?US goverment?or all countries goverment?i think this is can be true,goverment want to make stable price of gold,they want keep money circulation better and better.

Me also i dont think government manipulating the price because government is just making a law about it and also they cannot manipulate the price and i really think those manipulating the price is the businessman because they are the one who receive and invest in gold and if they hord it the more the price will rise and i think the difficulty to get gold for now is the reason why it is expensive to buy.

I don't think that governments are manipulating the prices of gold and silver, but all the manipulation in any product or any asset is dependent on the demand and supply of that asset or product.

That is my opinion as well, bryant.coleman.  Devaluing helps exports, short-term of course, but yields less consumption within the export country and distorts their investments.  China is a great example.  They have inflation.  China will have a hard landing, probably soon.  Of course, China's future ("later") may be bright, depending on the policies they adopt later on.

Japan used to devalue all the time as well.  They are now stuck in a depression which while somewhat mild, has been going on arguably over 25 years.

As a general rule, the more a country monkeys with the free market, the worse the results.

Devaluation of currency can help in the short term, but in the long term the net effect will be negative. A clear example to this is China. They have tried to benefit by devaluing the Renminbi. It benefited them in the short term, by increasing the volume of exports. But now, they have to deal with the rise in inflation, and the stock market crash.

Countries will be happy to devalue their currencies, so that their exports become more compeititive. All this competitive quantitative easing and negative interest rates indicate that.

Yup they can do that but what is their plan if they manipulating gold and silver price? If they dont have a good plan they wasting only their funds for that manipulating.

The government i think they can but they dont manipulating gold and silver because if they do that they need many funds for that and they waste their money for that.

Global control of gold price was not possible until the height of the British empire.  (During the Dutch Golden Age the Dutch elites had to keep paper money tightly covered by specie since they still couldn't contain a capital flight out of their paper money into specie.)  From the late 1860s Britain was able to co-ordinate with all major central banks to ensure convertibility of paper sterling to gold at a fixed price -- this was a total global suppression of gold market price.  E.g. in 1890 the Bank of England borrowed gold from other central banks to contain a big financial crisis -- this meant, in practice, keeping the paper sterling price of gold the same as before.

After the collapse of the last remnants of the gold standard in 1971, it seems, manipulation has been done by co-ordination between the major central banks, bullion banks, and big investment banks.  (The evidence provided by books like "The Gold War" and "The Gold Cartel" seems pretty convincing.)

Individual investors are price takers, not price setters, most of the time, in this system.  Your gold dealer or coin shop will buy from or sell to you at a price based on the spot price "managed" by the elites via their "fix" system.

The borrowing of physical gold (ie the location of the physical metal, regardless of who owns it in theory) seems to play a key role. Most European countries' gold is held in their name in Britain and the US.  When German voters forced Germany to ask for its gold to be moved to Germany, the process was strangely slow and tedious (and I think it will be done over many years and the final negotiated amount will be only part of Germany's gold.)

The only successful example of full relocation of gold was by Hugo Chavez of Venezuela.  (You could also trust him to rebel against the system!)  I think the process was also painfully slow.  If they had trouble coming up with that small amount of gold, you can bet central banks' physical gold is highly leveraged for suppression purposes, and that the whole scheme can come crashing down.  If you look into the fine print of any "paper gold" investments, you'll probably find that, in extremis, you have to accept paper currency.

Buy physical gold only.

They can do this in a marginal aspect but the market has grown quite a lot so there is not much for them to influence it anymore.

The entire modern world system is based on suppressing the price of gold and silver.  Under the centuries of gold and silver standards, the central banks sold gold and silver freely at a fixed paper currency price, so the precious metals always earned an interest of 0%.

Since 1971, *supposedly*, we are on totally fiat money.  But think, how could the elites possibly allow a free market for gold and silver when they couldn't have it for over 350 years before that?

So, suppression simply went underground, and any devaluation of currency against gold (when the elites could no longer help it) is done on a rolling basis and less embarrassing to the elites.

Yes, that is correct however the problem is that how much they can manipulate and what percentage they can change the prices?

They most certainly are and have been doing so for years especially silver.

This has been known for years. Government always try to manipulate the market to garner favour towards their own currency. It doesn't take any rocket science equations to figure that out.

First off, what "the government" are you talking about. There are some 200 worldwide and every one of them can trade gold. Now factor in the millions of gold owners who are fee to sell at whatever price they choose. A bank may be able to manipulate THEIR valuation on gold, but how would they convince millions of others to sell at a price they choose?   

This is not true! Because gold and silver price change has not happened only in one country, it has happened in most of the world. And logically such decision wasn't made in UN as all the countries are facing similar situation. Gold and silver price mostly depends on market demand and availability so government do not have any major role in it.

When some people/banks/entities have a huge money then they can control flows of money too and for governments at least it may be good to control many things.

Big banks are maintaining the silver price low, more than the gold one. It is needed for the industry to not collapse. These Jews are just making the thing not to explode. Even if that's working now, the more we wait before the boom the bigger it will be. And the more millions they will have...

Yes, maybe governments try to change prices but they cannot change those prices very much since there is a very big supply of gold that they do  not have much control over it.

Very interesting. I have a feeling that governments are doing so because they want to feel that fiat is still strong, and such, although it is obviously doomed to collapse.

Mike Maloney is very interesting and brings very good points to the table - would you consider him trustworthy?

Also would you consider PM's a good store of value?


It has been crashing since, what, 2 years ago?


Canada has already ran out of gold, but it's interesting how the U.S. government is still hoarding around 75% of their forex reserves in gold. And yet they say gold isn't a safe investment

I have read an article last year about the government of manipulating the price of gold, but I don't fully trust because when i seen gold prices very strong day by day.

This gold market is very huge and it is very difficult to manipulate prices for any one either government or brokers. But the big gold consumers like India and China government policies can put kind of pressure on gold price for short term and they can't control those prices for long term. So when you invest money in gold then don't worry much about short term price movements and hold it for long term surely can make a decent profits from it. But I'm not sure any government will do any background work control these metal prices.

I think since economies are connected together there is not much governemnts can do in this regard but they may be able to have small percent effects on it.

Yes, but can one government, or even several at a time, manipulate a market as big as the precious metals market?  I know what I wrote above, and I'm definitely skeptical, but I'm not saying it's impossible.  Governments certainly have done things as bad and worse than this.  Silver has been on a tear as of late, and it's nice to see.

Most likely they manipulated, manipulating and will manipulate in the future the precious metal prices, but the governments never going to admit that.

Don't governments hold tons of gold in reserves? If so, I would assume that they are able to manipulate the prices.

Government is one of the biggest hoarder of gold and they can and the do manipulate its price.If government starts selling some of its reserve,it effects gold price

They have manipulated prices through paper leverage not physical supply.  Currently several hundred paper claims per oz of physical metal.

Government? What government, the biggest gold markets are India and China, I have no information regarding those governments doing something regarding the value of gold. Some traders in Wall Street or London are more likely to play with the market, but there's little indication some government is behind them. Greed is most likely their only motivation.

How do they manipulate the supply? I hear what he is saying, but the miners will sell when they are ready and that is usually when the price is high or when they need to pay their expenses. This

is not a easy commodity to manipulate and if they are doing it ...they are damn smart. The reason why they would want to do this is sinister in the least... trying to protect the value of the dollar and

making gold as a commodity less attractive, seems to me as a bit trivial ...they have control over the supply of money already... printing it like toilet paper. 

Deutche Bank admits it has rigged gold prices and is about to grass up the other banks involved -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-14/first-silver-now-gold-deutsche-bank-admits-it-also-rigged-gold-prices-legal-settleme


Billion Dollar Lawsuits Filed Following Deutsche Bank's Admission Of Gold, Silver Rigging
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-16/billion-dollar-lawsuits-filed-following-deutsche-banks-admission-gold-silver-rigging

You think bitcoin price isnt manipulated?  The all time high was achieved by manipulation through bots, and I doubt very much this activity has suddenly stopped.

And it's bizarre that anyone would want to be in any market they suspect is being rigged by banks or governments.  Which government is suspected of manipulating pms this time?  Do you think any one gov't could possibly do that?

IMO, gevernment has nothing to do with gold and silver prices.
The prices are fluctuated depends on supply and demand on market.

I do not know if the government manipulating gold and silver prices is really true. I have always been told that the value of gold and silver goes up because there is less and less gold and silver on the earth.

Officially no, the banks have been and have admitted it.  The governments haven't admitted anything and are unlikely to do so.
Mike Maloney is very interesting and all, but he is trying to sell PMs, it is worth remembering that when you watch his videos.

Stack is you want to, but do it expecting it to be a long tern store of value, more will be a bonus

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Cyaren

I have no idea when the manipulation will end.  Manipulation, done subtly, is very difficult to detect and even harder to prove.  Deutsche must have been rather blatant (or manipulated A LOT).  I believe that Deutsche was sued by private parties, NOT by the regulators (Bart Chilton asleep at the switch, LOL).

The miners really did get screwed big time.  We'll see if they join in the lawsuits.

Re bullion buyers and holders, well, we will just have to wait and see.

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There is a possibility of a "FOFOA-Style" sudden revaluation in gold possible however.  Should the +/- 100:1 ratio of "paper gold" to physical gold become unsustainable (probably is unsustainable), then a very sudden revaluation WAY higher could happen quickly.

And it's possible that the government itself could do it!  Imagine this: the US .gov one day announces that it would buy any and all gold for a very high price (and even arbitrary number), say $5000 per ounce.  The price would jump to AT LEAST that number worldwide.  The price would likely go even higher as people see "paper gold" worth nothing.  Then, the US government, and any others with large gold holdings, would have MUCH MORE in reserves to pay off debt.

I do understand, it has been a great opportunity for me to buy in more physical bullion.

And yeah, it hurt a lot of mining companies as well. Their production costs just ain't keeping up with the prices.

How soon will this manipulation end?

I wouldn't say the government is manipulating the price, but I'm 99% sure that traders are manipulating the price. JP Morgan had done this a little while ago (I think it was early or mid 2015) where the price of silver dipped due to a JP Morgan manipulation.

I don't think the real value of PMs is more than 30% higher than their current value, but that could be for the market to decide and not me.

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To answer your question specifically, I don't know.  Probably though.

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Deutsche Bank just admitted to manipulating Au and Ag, and has fingered UBS and one or two other banks as well.

The lawsuits have already started, at least in Canada, and I'm sure they will start in the USA soon.  The most obvious ones hurt by Deutsche Bank et al would be investors in gold & silver mining companies.

Bullion buyers, by contrast, had several years of cheaper prices...   

Mike Maloney on Youtube has made the point that the price of physical gold and silver is kept low intentionally by the government and traders using leverage on their investments. Is this the case with the current gold and silver market, or is this just bull?