Is there no fix for the triple question mark in trust

suchmoon

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Quote from: Quickseller on November 14, 2018, 10:19:35 PM

The purpose of the triple question mark is to give an early warning of someone potentially starting to scam people via a long con.

If someone has positive trust, and receives a single negative rating, each positive rating will be worth a maximum of 1 point, and if the negative rating is insufficient to take the trust rating below zero, their trust score will be a triple zero. Assuming n is greater than 0, the sum of the score from all the negative ratings is 2ⁿ

Triple zero? You sound like you need double A.

Quickseller

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The purpose of the triple question mark is to give an early warning of someone potentially starting to scam people via a long con.

If someone has positive trust, and receives a single negative rating, each positive rating will be worth a maximum of 1 point, and if the negative rating is insufficient to take the trust rating below zero, their trust score will be a triple questionmark. Assuming n is greater than 0, the sum of the score from all the negative ratings is 2ⁿ

jademaxsuy

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Activity: 924

Merit: 221

Quote from: S_Therapist on November 14, 2018, 10:36:00 AM

Suchmoon- 28
philipma1957- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
cryptodevil- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Vod- 8 (Rating is older than 8 months = 8

I see. So I better always stick in this section for more learnings and understanding about the forum technicalities. I was assuming that I knew about trust rating that I even state my opinion which is relatively wrong. Anyway, the explanation above was a simple terms for the trust rating of a user and it adds also how to compute the following on getting red trust qouted below.

Quote from: suchmoon on November 14, 2018, 10:20:00 AM

Only ratings of the members of your trust list (or DT if you don't have a custom list) and yourself count in the score. Negative ratings have an exponential effect (2 to the power of number of negs) so in your example the score is 6 - 2^3 = 6 - 8 = -2

Detailed formula is linked in the post just above yours: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/minor-trust-score-algorithm-change-1066857

Whoever implemented this idea has a brilliant thinking and in fact the trust rating in the forum works well. I saw more users in the marketplace with red trust and that obviously means that I have to stay away or be careful to do trading with them. Hoping for new comers to get with this discussions and for them to have clarified about trust rating.

Up for this thread.

S_Therapist

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 280

Quote from: jackg on November 14, 2018, 10:01:02 AM

What about vod and anduck's trusts?

Quote from: suchmoon on November 14, 2018, 10:20:00 AM

Negative ratings have an exponential effect (2 to the power of number of negs)

From this formula, anduck has a point of 7
If user receives negative feedback, and score is greater than 0, the below formula is applied.
from his first negative feedback-
He got 2 positive feedback.
Unique Positive- Unique Negative
=2-1
=1

In the case of Vod,
If user doesn't have any negative feedback,
For each positive feedback, user get 1 point initially, later, for each month it get +1, it increased up to 10.

Here are the stats of Vod's score- 142

Tomatocage- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Monbux- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
KWH- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Light- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
John- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Taras- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Haploid- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Stunna- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
The joint- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Hedgy- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
The Pharmacist- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Marlboroza- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Madz- 8 (Rating is older than 8 months = 8
ibminer- 4 (Rating is older than 4 months = 4)

Suchmoon- 28
philipma1957- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
cryptodevil- 10 (Rating is older than 10 months = 10)
Vod- 8 (Rating is older than 8 months = 8

suchmoon

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Quote from: HODL2090 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:40 AM

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
This account for example, Koshgel. The user has +6 rating and -3 which I believe means 6 positive ratings and 3 negative. S/hes trust rating is red (-2).

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?

Only ratings of the members of your trust list (or DT if you don't have a custom list) and yourself count in the score. Negative ratings have an exponential effect (2 to the power of number of negs) so in your example the score is 6 - 2^3 = 6 - 8 = -2

Detailed formula is linked in the post just above yours: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/minor-trust-score-algorithm-change-1066857

Quote from: jackg on November 14, 2018, 10:01:02 AM

What about vod and anduck's trusts?

What about it? Anduck got a counter-rating so he's at 0 now I think (can't say for sure as I don't use the default settings).

The Sceptical Chymist

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Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: HODL2090 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:40 AM

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.

I more or less understand how the system works, but a few things still perplex me. I don't know if it was Theymos who designed the trust system, but I've always been of the opinion that whoever did is brilliant with math and creating complex algorithms but doesn't grasp human behavior quite so well. I have my own reasons and opinions for thinking the latter, but the former is pretty obvious.

And yeah, those question marks have always just looked weird to me. There ought to be a better way to visually represent a member who has mixed DT trust.

S_Therapist

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 280

Quote from: HODL2090 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:40 AM

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.

Rating from DT members only visible to people's profile, by default though. You can always have a custom list. Anyway, @suchmoon has shared a link and it will be worthy for you to have a look.
The first score- Total rating. It also quite related to the time span from receiving the feedback. It also counts more feedbacks from a single user, imo.
2nd score- Number of unique negative feedback users. One may get 3 negative feedback from single user. The score will be 1.
3rd score- Number of unique positive feedback sender.

Quote from: HODL2090 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:40 AM

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?

No, afaik. It depends the time of receiving the negative trust along with the total number of negative feedbacks.

Quote from: HODL2090 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:40 AM

How are members in my trusted group rated?

If you include me in your trust list, all of my feedback will be visible to you.
Again, if you remove a DT from your trust list, you will not see the feedback in people's profile. It will be in untrusted feedback.

jademaxsuy

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Activity: 924

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Quote from: HODL2090 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:40 AM

I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
This account for example, Koshgel. The user has +6 rating and -3 which I believe means 6 positive ratings and 3 negative. S/hes trust rating is red (-2).

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?

Base on my understandings DT has given the privileged to give negative trust rating to a certain user if found out to be not trusted especially in trading. And on the contrary only DT also has the privilege to change negative trust rating to positive trust rating. I think this is how things work here and about the positive feedback given to other users that are not DT's are just a basis or reference for a users trust rating. Anyone could give a positive feedback to a certain user with just intention is to promote trust and confidence to a certain user but not the trust ratings because again only DT has the privilehe to do it.

Like to what you say that the positive feedback given to the users has nothing to do when a DT has given his feedback that for sure will record the user's trust rating. There are many DT's that you can PM to check on someone's activity if you think that they are scamming or promoting something that is scam. I bet they are attentive for this because they were users entrusted by the admins.

Nevertheless, if all of my understandings are right then one must be careful in trading with users with red trust rating because they are evaluated already with the DT to be not trusted. This is why their rule in this forum on evaluating trust rating for the users were very important. Thanks to them!

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: suchmoon on November 14, 2018, 08:32:12 AM

Quote from: jackg on November 14, 2018, 07:40:31 AM

I thought the triple question mark would eventually be fixed be we don’t seem to have even that lucky. It’s been like that ever since I’ve got here and I was wondering if there’s a way to fix it.

Why do you think it needs fixing? AFAIK it's intentional. If someone had positive trust and gets neg trust but not enough to make them red they'll get the "undefined" score. It's a bit more complex than that but that's the gist of it. More details here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/minor-trust-score-algorithm-change-1066857

What about vod and anduck's trusts?

Harkorede

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Quote from: HODL2090 on November 14, 2018, 09:48:40 AM

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?

I guess it does, A users rating doesn't show automatically on users forum profile if given by just another user outside the DT List, Only a DT member ratings is shown, but others can be found on the user's rating history and should a claim be verified DT member will a user found guilty of mischief. So, logically every well referenced and proven scam accusation of mischief somewhat counts too.

The DT List/group is ranked differently, ~~I'll check for the link~~.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust

HODL2090

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Activity: 210

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I have never fully understood how they trust ratings actually work.
This account for example, Koshgel. The user has +6 rating and -3 which I believe means 6 positive ratings and 3 negative. S/hes trust rating is red (-2).

Does the trust rating of some DTs count more than others?
How are members in my trusted group rated?

suchmoon

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 8909

https://bpip.org

Quote from: jackg on November 14, 2018, 07:40:31 AM

I thought the triple question mark would eventually be fixed be we don’t seem to have even that lucky. It’s been like that ever since I’ve got here and I was wondering if there’s a way to fix it.

Why do you think it needs fixing? AFAIK it's intentional. If someone had positive trust and gets neg trust but not enough to make them red they'll get the "undefined" score. It's a bit more complex than that but that's the gist of it. More details here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/minor-trust-score-algorithm-change-1066857

DdmrDdmr

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 10802

There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

Yesterday I located 45 such cases when posting a Thread on DT2 Trust distribution. The detail is as follows:

Code:

trust rank userId username lastactive URL
???: -1 / +2 Newbie 989408 altpool-tech 2017-07-14 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=989408
???: -1 / +2 Member 82132 AU 2014-02-16 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=82132
???: -1 / +2 Hero Member 110699 BitJohn 2017-11-07 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=110699
???: -2 / +4 Hero Member 156878 BITMAIN 2018-05-28 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=156878
???: -1 / +3 Legendary 165142 bittaitaliana 2018-04-24 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=165142
???: -2 / +7 Legendary 553066 BlockEye 2018-11-01 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=553066
???: -1 / +4 Hero Member 795961 cryptoheadd 2018-11-02 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=795961
???: -1 / +2 Member 265149 CryptoKilla 2014-08-12 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265149
???: -1 / +6 Full Member 107656 cwil 2018-10-08 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=107656
???: -2 / +5 Legendary 131952 cyclops 2018-11-03 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=131952
???: -1 / +2 Sr. Member 338329 darkx3 2018-08-03 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=338329
???: -1 / +2 Donator 41048 DeathAndTaxes 2015-04-22 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=41048
???: -1 / +2 Hero Member 40149 Deprived 2014-03-14 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=40149
???: -1 / +2 Hero Member 105195 DrahogErusiel 2016-09-21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=105195
???: -2 / +4 Legendary 349097 Gleb Gamow 2018-06-16 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=349097
???: -1 / +3 VIP 17548 Graet 2014-10-14 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17548
???: -1 / +4 Legendary 89189 gravitate 2018-04-16 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=89189
???: -1 / +2 Full Member 117290 grbox2001 2017-12-11 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=117290
???: -1 / +7 Legendary 233989 IBGigglin 2018-09-05 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=233989
???: -1 / +4 Sr. Member 411686 IronMarvel2 2018-10-27 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=411686
???: -1 / +4 Legendary 72227 johnniewalker 2016-12-20 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=72227
???: -1 / +4 Legendary 43085 juggalodarkclow 2014-08-11 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=43085
???: -1 / +3 Sr. Member 148389 justbtcme 2018-03-21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148389
???: -1 / +2 Hero Member 662310 Kolder 2018-11-01 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=662310
???: -2 / +4 Full Member 811840 Liad.Services 2017-03-06 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=811840
???: -1 / +4 Hero Member 341982 mexxer-2 2018-11-02 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=341982
???: -1 / +8 Legendary 138940 minifrij 2018-08-27 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=138940
???: -1 / +5 Hero Member 52741 MPOE-PR 2016-04-18 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741
???: -1 / +3 Hero Member 19534 MRBONG411 2018-05-20 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=19534
???: -1 / +3 Member 533570 MrLehmann 2017-08-21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=533570
???: -1 / +2 Hero Member 265513 NattyLiteCoin 2018-02-27 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265513
???: -1 / +2 Sr. Member 149388 nbphuoc 2017-09-12 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=149388
???: -1 / +4 Legendary 148037 niktitan132 2016-10-20 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148037
???: -1 / +2 Legendary 24792 Phinnaeus Gage 2018-11-03 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=24792
???: -1 / +3 Hero Member 265035 socal 2018-02-09 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=265035
???: -1 / +2 Hero Member 88501 steelboy 2018-10-23 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=88501
???: -1 / +2 Sr. Member 156892 surfer43 2018-11-02 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=156892
???: -1 / +2 Legendary 147307 SwingFirst 2018-08-28 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=147307
???: -1 / +5 Sr. Member 430758 TheAnalogKid 2018-01-02 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=430758
???: -1 / +2 Hero Member 144117 topminingcontracts 2018-10-15 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=144117
???: -1 / +4 Hero Member 538922 TwitchySeal 2018-10-19 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=538922
???: -1 / +3 Legendary 100039 winter 2018-11-02 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=100039
???: -1 / +6 Hero Member 798632 Woshib 2018-11-02 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=798632
???: -1 / +13 Legendary 101763 xetsr 2016-08-22 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=101763
???: -1 / +2 Sr. Member 67194 zeeshanblc 2018-04-13 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=67194

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

I thought the triple question mark would eventually be fixed be we don’t seem to have even that lucky. It’s been like that ever since I’ve got here and I was wondering if there’s a way to fix it.

You shouldn’t trade with people based only on the scores their trust has, however, they are something we have in place so it would be nice if we could have it cleaned up a bit.

Topic: Is there no fix for the triple question mark in trust (Read 364 times)