Topic: is TRC actually fixed? (Read 1038 times)

In PPS or RPPS pools miners are paid for every valid share they submit, generally using the formula: (Block reward - pool fee)/difficulty. In this system the pool owner takes all the risk in terms of the amount of time/blocks it takes to solve a block as the miners get paid regardless.

The longer it takes to solve a block, the more shares the owner has to pay out of the block reward when a block is solved. If it takes too many shares the owner will take a loss on the block.

On the other hand, if blocks are solved quickly, the owner makes more profit. The miner is insulated as they get paid a consistent rate regardless of the "luck" the pool is having.

The formula is applied to every block change,  regardless if the pool solves the block. When the difficulty is low shares are worth more and thus the owner pays more to solve a block. Normally not a concern as the lower the difficulty the speed and amount of blocks that are solved rises.

When the difficulty is fluctuating wildly, it puts the pool owner in a extremely uncertain position. When the difficulty is being purposely manipulated, all consistency goes out the window for the operator and even when the difficulty is low, the pool is still in competition with somebody with enough hash power to manipulate the chain in the first place.



In proportional pools, the risk is taken by the miners. The basic formula is (block reward - pool fee)/ number of shares to solve the block. The longer it takes to solve a block, the less each share is worth. The pool operator never has to pay out more then the block reward - pool fee. In reality proportion pools use a slightly more complex formula to discourage pool hopping, but the basic premise is the same.The only real risk to the owner is making enough to cover hosting/development costs, as do PPS pool owners. Most proportional pools run at a very low fee or even no fee, only making coin on the block fees.

Most pools today are PPS, and as a miner I will normally only use PPS pools.

RPPS/RBPPS are round based PPS pools that delay payout until the solved block matures. This puts the risk on the miners for orphan blocks; it is also how young pools can start up with fewer coins in reserve.

it is looking alot better, but will coinotron and other pools be able to pool ?  I didn't understand their concerns

p.s. what do you guys think of dev coin?

it starts looking better, seeing less and less variance in diff over time, was a minimal hashrate required for this to start working ?

Honestly I have no idea at this point. If I understand the dev right, as time goes on it will smooth out more and more, but I couldn't explain to you why.

rabbit what was it you were talking about 103792?

you said at one point, just wait til block "can't remember block" and the real fireworks will begin...

and won't the insane difficulty adjuster self deactivate at 103792?  and won't the network somewhat stabilize there?

I remember really being hard on terracoin, but I sincerely want an altcoin to be born with 51% attack immunity, it would be historical.  then I will clone that coin and birth trollcoin, which will be the best coin evvarr!

so after 103792, will trc be invulnerable?  you seem to have your mind wrapped around this far better than I.  and sorry for being a pest with all my questions

51% is when someone with a large amount of hash power takes the current chain and then in secret they try to 'outrun' the mining on the main chain.

The longest chain is considered the "true chain" so their goal is to make a chain only slightly longer then the main chain, then reconnect with the network. The nodes see this "new chain" as longer, and thus consider it the true chain, dumping the other chain and creating a fork.

You do not see 51% happening on the network, it is done on a private network. There is no way to detect it in advance.

ok, I think i sort of get it.  I'll need to further research that number

a 51% attack isn't just about raising difficulty.  That happens because people jump on or off. a 51% in my understanding is that if someone has more than half the power of the network they have a good chance of hijacking it and refusing some transactions while being able to doublespend their own and cause such chaos for as long as they have control of most of the hashing power

forks maybe.

but the way I understand it,

 51% attack occurs
 difficulty goes up.  asic or whatever leaves.

10 minutes pass at no block found.  difficulty goes down by 1/2.  10 minutes go by.  if no block is found, difficulty goes down by 1/2... 10 minutes go by.  etc etc

so the result is 51% attack invulnerability.  because eventually even if it takes an hour somebody is going to see that low difficulty and mine it out to get the easy coins.

and yes m aybe the difficulty goes up again after 10 blocks.  but so what, it will come back down in no time.

I don't see another solution than the rough one implemented by the trc developers to 51 % attacks..  so

maybe in the future, there will be some kind of patch to make pool mining accessable again, or not.  but as long as there are transactions and it is being traded on speculatory exchanges I see its value increasing especially as more people look to altcoins and see that as an option.

the one problem I see is that if these miners mining for profit supply the exchanges with unlimited cheap TRC then they won't hold value at all.  so yeah in the last few days miners have mined something like 20,000 TRC which is sort of a ton, but not really a ton.

I think that this is what is keeping the price way down, and might push the price further.  for some damn reason people like trc though. 

and if it functions I don't see how it won't at least exist.  and crypto-trade is opening in 4 days, they're going to offer it on their platform, to another demographic... I don't know.  I'm trying to speculate the future here, you might be right, but you haven't convinced me yet

The coin has no actual use and can't be exchanged for anything aside from bitcoins.  Most of the altcoins at the moment have generated the interest to stay on the exchanges because of their profitability in relation to bitcoin.  Without access to a way to generate these coins it will kill part of your supply chain.  If the prices stay up for some reason you won't see a difference since you're not a miner spacegoat, but you'll be entirely dependent on ASICs and such to move the transactions as the rest of the hashing power leaves(look at the thread on wemineltc), if people can't get steady income they'll leave and go elsewhere.  That could lead to forks and 51% attacks being much easier, thus a less secure coin

I'm getting internal server errors on the RPC port, I think it's fucking with simplecoin because the code isn't catching the errors properly.  It led to simplecoin thinking I had ~400 TRC in my wallet (likely from trying to process the same found block multiple times due to the RPC errors)

why will interest in the coin wane without pool mining so long as its offered in trade exchanges?

read the last 2 posts made by myself and one other person in the terracoin fork thread. This is actually really bad for longterm mining because it's killing pooled mining.  And without that interest in the coin will wane

ok.  I'm all out.  but I'm thinking about going back in.  why?  because it looks like its actually become asic proof.  

I've been watching the block chain, and yes asics have jumped on, blocks have been processed rapidly, but the developers fix limits asics to about 5-10 blocks and the difficulty goes way up.  and takes 10 minutes to swing back down.  but IT DOES swing back down.  definitely some improvements to be made on the next patch, but it seems to be a pretty great start.

it looks like madness, the difficulty swinging up and back like crazy. but I think it might be ingenuious innovation..  at least to start on.  my mind is starting to wrap around the initial problem 51% attacks are responsible for..  and it seems like he's onto an actual solution.  which would be historical.  and maybe save the future of bitcoin.  so if bitcoin ever ends up suffering bad from 51% attacks, they can utilize TRC's solution.  this may be idealistic dreaming

  but the main thing is, our F@#$ coins aren't stuck indefinitely.  that was torture

my first concern was that going through too many blocks would flood the market with coins, but I realized that 20 coin blocks.  200 coins..  that's not too many.  its pretty profitable for them I guess 200 TRC in a minute.  but the system isn't down.  

I have a feeling that they are mining tons and bringing them right to btc-e

which is the only reason keeping the price down right now.  and keeping them disinterested.

but I hear that at 103792 blocks some kind of equilibrium will set in and there will be more of a balanced thing going on.(what? I'm a layman)(experts please help me understand this with details)  the dev said it will get smoother over time.  and I think asics will be able to milk it less over time?

am I understanding this correctly?

https://github.com/terracoin/terracoin/issues/33

so... everyone was freaked about the swinging difficulties.  but we have a working network.  

if 103792 comes and actually smooths out... prevents asics from dominating... and the terracoin sustains its health.  this will be unprecedented.  I am excited and watching with anticipation... even considering buying back in because an alt coin that sustains health will have a sustained growth too.

anyway.  your thoughts appreciated here