Topic: ISIS executes 1,500 Iraqi POWs (Read 4359 times)

The US had overthrown Saddam in 2003. Had he been in power now, there would have been no ISIS and no persecution of the minorities. Iraq 2003 is already in my list of US invasions. No need to add anything new.

You are both right, and the reality is more screwed up. Yes, the Shiites are predominantly non-arab,

and in a way this is a continuation of millenia old rivalries between arabs and persians.

Even in remote antiquity- 4000bc the people of present day Iran were called Elamites,
and their land Elam, translated: The Land of God. And they made habitual war against their southern neighbors- the Sumerians.

The Shiite/Sunni thing adds a religious element that makes the war dreadful, bloody,

ALOT like the wars of Reformation in Europe (catholic vs protestant) during the 1500's.

And now everyone will start cursing the us for involvement in another country.

Don't forget to add this to your list of the us invasions.

I have good news for everyone. The Iraqi Air Force had launched an air strike in Sinjar a few hours ago. 45 ISIS terrorists are reported to be dead (according to CNN) and many more injured. Some US fighter jets also attacked ISIS positions near Irbil, destroying a mobile artillery unit.

Where to start?

Seriously you made all that up.  The Shia faith was born in Iraq - Hussein was an Arab. 

Why on earth would you come here and post such total fiction?

There were Arabs who sided with the Persian Empire in ancient history.  Mesopotamia (Iraq) was Zoroastrian under the Persian Empire and they were fighting against the initially Pagan and later Islamic Arabs.

This has nothing to do with religion.  It's a continuation of a 1500+ year old war between Arabs and Persians.  The "Shiite" Arabs are really just the descendents of those Arabs who sided with Persia a long time.  Much like Sunni ISIS (Arab) is fighting Sunni Kurds (Kurds who are descendents of Persia)



It's politically correct to write this all off as a religious thing when there's many atheists, people of the same religious branch, Christians, and secularists fighting and they're either picking the side of the Arabs or the Iranians (religion isn't the conflict here). 

There's the whole Caliphate thing among ISIS but that's state level rhetoric and probably an element of revanchism to restore an Arab Empire (not sure whom they are blaming the fall of the Arab Empire on but it's probably been scapegoated on Jews, Shiites and Christians.  When the real source of the decline was due to the succession crises which occurred in Arab dynasties, in part because of too many male offspring due to multiple wives and dynastic violence was tolerated as well.  So you often had good heirs that were murdered by jealous less competent rivals).

man i've been watching some morbid shit lately.. few days ago i saw the best documentary i've soon, "the act of killing." it actually follows with the perspective of the guys who are doing the killing (in indonesia that is) and how it affects them psychologically.

The ongoing conflict is not an Arab-Iranian conflict, but a Sunni vs Shiite conflict. The Sunni Arabs are fighting against the Shiite Arabs. So it has everything to do with religion.


Right now the Iranian revolutionary guards are fighting alongside the Shiite Iraqi army. So that argument is wrong.

Barbaric to say the least. But my guess is that this happens frequently in the middle east, especially in Syria. Tough shit to be a soldier there that's for sure.

Maybe it's comming; http://rt.com/news/178852-obama-authorizes-iraq-airstrikes/

Airstrikes to protect the embassy sure, they wont drop bombs elsewhere. Question is on who.

Doesn't matter if the Kurds are Sunni or Confucian.  This has nothing to do with religion.

It's the continuation of Arab-Persian going back 1500+ years.  Kurds are to Iranians as are Bavarians to Germans.  Arabs don't like Iran or anything to do with Persian history.

By the way the Arabs often dislike Turks too, they've been going after what few Turkic people remain in their lands as well.

I was talking about the Sunni Arabs. A majority of the Kurds are Sunni as well (with sizable minorities of Shias, Yazidis and Christians) but very few of them support the ISIS. On the other hand, ISIS enjoys a lot of support among the Sunni Arabs.

One thing I am seeing here is that from the video, specific individuals can be recognized and charged with war crimes.  Or delt with by whomever the local underground is. 

Another thing I'll mention in passing, it's possible top level ISIS did not and does not condone this activity. 

This may sound totally nuts but I betcha you could email them and ask, then post the reply or lack of.

Piece of shit ISIS, murder those beasts!

Why aren't we yet invading the people and taking action?

They should rename Islam from religion of peace to something else more accurate.

And if it's WAR, then you have international RULES OF WARFARE.  The Geneva Convention.  And oh, don't forget common sense.

The video linked to is not justifable in the context of historical relationships, but is specifically objectionable in said context.

Don't forget that a huge part of kurdish people are Sunni's as well and they are the ones who are fighting ISIS the most, it's good that you don't make assumptions.

Not all, but a sizable majority feels that the ISIS represents them. The Sunnis were treated harshly by the Shiite dominated regime of Al Maliki. A lot of experts had warned him earlier and some even requested him to accommodate Sunni Arabs in his government. Al Maliki never listened to them. Now he is reaping the consequence of his arrogance.

damnit! this is so wrong.... like why would they do that?

Let's leave the Indonesians and other Muslims like the Bosnians out of this.  This is not a religious conflict.  It is the continuation of the Arab-Persian war which goes back 1500+ years and even predates Islam.

This is a forgotten history lesson but the Zoroastrians conquered Eastern Arabia (which was Pagan) and that was the catalyst which led to the formation of Islam.  The Arabs, desperate for Revanchism, created a new religion which echoed the organization of Rome to maximize control of their people to drive out the Persian invaders.



The sooner you can address the origins of this conflict the sooner you can bring an end to it.  If the British Empire were still around, someone like Lord Curzon or Mountbatten would draw a line and say: "Arabs on that side and Persians on the other" and the fighting would end tomorrow.

The problem is that the US has not had that sort of statesmen since Woodrow Wilson and Harry S. Truman.  

And now 40k innocents trapped and set up for a slaughter in the coming days
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat
Bad times!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AQPlREDW-Ro

Good video about the crysis.

And Indonesian muslim is 80% 90%+ Sunni I think. But few days ago there was a news that Indonesia is against ISIS.





Sorry, bad english  

False.  There is zero hate or emotion in what I said.  Zero.  Got it?  Nothing but military necessity.

Congratulations.  You're playing right into the hands of TPTB.  They insist on divvying up human beings into categories based on national origin, ethnicity, religion, race, etc.  That's the first step in convincing people to hate each other and eventually to kill each other in search of retribution.

Let me give you an example.  When a group of Palestinians kidnap and murder three Israeli teenagers, that does not give the Israeli government an excuse to start indiscriminately bombing and killing Palestinians that had nothing to do with the murders.  A much more logical approach would be to apprehend those responsible and put them on trial.  That would only sound like nonsense to a sick fuck that buys into the us versus them mentality that TPTB like to sell.

This is Muslim killing their own? Am I missing something here?

I don't care.  You are exercising an ability to state a logical fallacy, so discussing your point has no meaning or purpose.

Let me give you an example.  Suppose ISIS takes over ABC, forcibly.  They then start a war with XYZ.  XYZ is at war with ABC.  The subjects of ABC are enemies of XYZ.   The cities of ABC and the military of ABC will suffer the consequences of losing or winning.

The subjects of ABC are factually, ABC.  It makes zero difference if "all subjects of ABC" support or do not support ABC. 

You are talking nonsense.  These are areas of human behavior where action is all that counts.  Example, French opposition during the occupation in WWII.

We are in agreement.  

I would be one of those Americans.  There are some people in this world who would love the opportunity to torture or kill me or anyone else that falls into the category of "American" despite the fact that quite a few of us oppose indiscriminate bombing.  People tend to say that America is killing innocent people and I object to that because the people in power that are ordering those bombings don't represent me.  Those individuals are responsible for their actions, not me, and they are the ones that should be held accountable for their actions, not me.  I think Sunnis that do not support the violence of ISIS should be afforded the same consideration.

No-one said they did.  Saddam Hussein killed more Shia than ISIS will ever manage.  He also killed a lot of people who share the IS ideology. 

In other news, not all Americans think that they can fix the world by bombing it.  However, it seems a lot of people on this forum are convinced otherwise.  As I said in my first reply, Sunnis in Iraq have been killing the rest for a long time and there is no reason to think that it makes sense to start bombing the place again.

I just don't assume that all Sunnis feel that ISIS represents them.

I realize this is a really difficult concept for you, but all Sunnis do not belong to ISIS.

You amaze me.  You really refuse to accept that they say what they mean and mean what they say: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=efe_1403037495

They are not murderers.  Its a war and the best you can say is that they are war criminals.  In terms of that war, they are defined by being Sunni Islamists and they say very clearly they will capture Baghdad and kill its Shia inhabitants.  Watch the video - they make their views very clear.

Really, isn't the argument that some people "can't speak out because of fear of retaliation" essentially an argument of the past? 

Can't anyone, one way or another, speak out?

Not at all.  I didn't say anything about Americans or American power.  Not sure how you came to that conclusion.  I'm simply pointing out that it's not the fact that they're Sunnis that makes them evil.  It's the fact that they are murderers that makes them evil and they don't speak on behalf of or represent all Sunnis.

I invite them to speak out here, on this forum.  Any language they want to use is fine.

Wow!  You really are into American power aren't you?  You think that if Americans stop referring to a problem, the problem ceases to exist??

The Sunni militants in Iraq and Syria say that they are killing people because of their religion, so how you refer to them doesn't matter - they have set their own terms of reference.

If you have a few minutes, this video is well made and sets out the basis of IS ideology: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=efe_1403037495

But doesn't that just help perpetuate the nonsense that a particular religion or ethnic group should be in control of a particular area on the map?  The less we refer to their ethnicity then the less relevant ethnicity will become.

Because of the ethnic make-up of Iraq.  Sunni Arabs are less than 20% of the population but were made the rulers in colonial times.  That's why they have a history of savage violence - its the only way for a small minority to retain absolute power. 

Same logic applies in reverse in Syria where the Sunnis are the majority and the Alawite minority retains absolute power through savage violence.

Exactly.  Just because a group of Sunnis is going around and murdering non-Sunnis doesn't make it okay to condemn Sunnis as a whole.  I don't know if any Sunnis are speaking out about it or not, but if they aren't that could be a result of living in fear of retaliation.  The members of ISIS that are committing these crimes obviously don't believe in the right to life or a fair trial, I think it's safe to say they also don't believe that the people living in the territory they control have a right to speak freely either.

If those Sunnis that have the ability to speak freely and condemn these senseless killings choose not to do so then yes, their morals should certainly be questioned.  Have any Sunnis been directly asked if they are okay with the actions of ISIS?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/06/40000-iraqis-stranded-mountain-isis-death-threat

Even more death and destruction could come, 40k Yazidi minorities are stranded in the mountains with nowhere to go.

Damn right I blame it on Dubya, if that knuckle-dragging mongoloid hadn't decided to invade Iraq, millions would probably still be alive and ISIS might not even exist.

Not exactly a Saddam supporter but he used to keep shit under control...

I sympathize with your comment 100%.  One will never find a category of human behavior for which "all" approve, will you?  However, since this is a self proclaimed Caliphate, isn't it odd that no FATWAs exist to kill these murderers and blasphemers, that do such things in the name of Allah?

Now show me some news reporting, does not matter what the language is, where Muslims are outraged or even reporting this event. 

Shit, really disturbing. They forget how to be human.

Why do you categorize these murderers with the label "Sunnis"?  Do you think all Sunnis approve of or are responsible for these crimes?

Why do people on this forum care about ISIS and want the US to get involved with drones or whatever?  Iraq is a very violent place.  The Sunnis have been slaughtering everyone else there for a long long time.  Just because its being recorded on cellphones now doesn't mean its new or worse - Saddam Hussein had several years in which over 100,000 prisoners were killed.

Perhaps the Iraqi lives are not worth as much as the lives of Gazans.

Had someone at least supplied a proper delivery of arms and ammunition to the Peshmerga, ISIS would have been history by now.

ISIS executes 1500 POWs!

Blame Bush!

Yeah, sure, buddy.  Sure.  Blame it on Bush.

Yeah nowadays I think China is the biggest customer, they're buying up about half the oil Iraq produces. That wasn't the case immediately after the invasion.

The 'reconstruction' of Iraq is another $billion scam for the corps, overcharging the Iraq government for non-existent civilian projects.

Too bad there was no liberation of the oil.  Western oil companies are taxed more in Iraq than they are in the oil producing regions in the United States and Canada.  Iraqis are also exporting oil to China and even to countries hostile to America.

How Iraqi money comes to the west is the US government makes them to overpay for obsolete military hardware or monkey model Abrams (and the juicy maintenance contracts).  Iraqi government also has to employ a lot of foreign firms for engineering and civil projects (which to be fair they can't really do themselves.  That's like the pipeline project in Libya, Gaddafi didn't do that it was technically German-Italian firms.  Much like Dubai says they want to send a man to Mars but it'll probably be American space companies doing the literal work).

Well we can thank Bush and Blair for this nightmare in Iraq, the only liberation that happened was Western liberation of Iraq's oil supplies.

Still waiting for them to find Saddam's elusive WMD's.....

Some 200,000 refugees are currently stranded in the Jabal Sinjar mountains, without any food or water. Most of them are religious minorities, such as Yazidis and Assyrians. Tens of thousands of children are among the refugees. If urgent aid is not delivered, a large part of them will perish.

Given the choice between being in bed with Israel thing and being in with the creatures shown in the ISIS video, I know where I'm headed.

Although this video is totally disgusting, I am glad that it was released and made available.  It shows reality, something has got to be understood.  The plain truth is what combats propaganda most effectively.

Bloody murderers , this psychopaths need to be punished ! how can these mass murderers still running wild....I know that the Iraqi government still being getting armed and doesn't have necessary tools to fight back especially in such disputed Area (which is why ISIS are kinda of doing what they want) but things needs to be done asap or they'll just killing more people included a lot of innocent civilians

The Kurds are an Iranic people and they were conspiring with Iran.  Kurds are to Iranians as are Bavarians to Germans.  The Kurdish independence thing is almost a joke as that country would be either join Iran or become its' puppet state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Karim_Qassim

Heck the founding father of Iraq (aka the guy who booted out the foreign Hashemite Bedouin monarchs who were installed by the British) was like 75% Kurdish and he had problems with the Kurds back then trying to break up Iraq to join Iran.

ISIS are one of those groups of pure evil like Boko Haram that simply needed to be exterminated.

Most of those executed are barely young adults/teenagers.

I really hope the Kurds are able to kill every single one.


Hopefully this news of American air support is true:

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/040820146

What a bunch of pricks...
With all the world's attention on Gaza, the human rights situation worsening in ISIS held areas is escaping attention

Don't be surprised that those about to be executed don't fight back even with them outnumbering their captors.
 
They probably went through the most horrifying mental torture that you could imagine.
In cases like these the POWs are sometimes divided into groups and forced to watch false executions of other groups. Executioners prepare the POWs as if they are going to be executed and then shoot next to them, have a good laugh and load them back into trucks. Several 'treatments' make POWs become very docile because they are first shocked, then terrified beyond belief, and finally relieved and reassured that they may live if they bow down. Instant Stockholm syndrome combined with indifference.
When the time for the actual execution comes, they don't even know what's real anymore and they don't care.

This is exactly why I think replacing Saddam Hussain with Al Maliki was a wrong idea. At least Saddam was able to keep the country united (with the exception of the far north).

Now the only choice left, IMO is to divide the country in to three separate republics / dictatorships.

ISIS are a bunch of murderous scumbags, that much is self-evident
What's worrying is the complete absence of ideas on how to substantively deal with them in a sustainable way
The lack of western credibility in that part of the world compounds an already bad situation

We live in coarser, more violent times overall period
Just because it is less visibly in your face in the West doesn't mean it's not there
ISIS is the consequence of many years of US foreign policy mismanagement in MENA

You're making an assumption that cannot happen again when it in fact did (several times).  Brutality of WW1 was followed by WW2.  Brutality of WW2 was followed by Americans in Korea and Vietnam, who carpet bombed many civilians to death and then there were mass rapes and massacres.  Even a million Iraqis were said to have died as a result of the American invasion of Iraq.  If you look around enough for video clips you can see American soldiers murdering and raping civilians.


This sort of brutality will make appearances in Europe again, it's just a matter of time.  Whatever veneer of civility you think there is just a veneer.

You answered your own question, the difference is "a hundred years ago"

Did you forget who is funding and training this barbaric terrorists? This is American money at work.

That is disturbing. Some of those people looked like kids. Not really surprised by something like this from "the religion of peace" but disturbed all the same.

yeah, like they're going to chill outside, waiting to be bombed.. when they know the U.S. is going after them.

most likely, they'll basically mix in with civilians to use them as shields. if they get killed, it's all good. they use it as a recruitment tool.

Well it's not difficult to avoid civilians if you attack their convoys of toyota trucks out in the middle of the desert.

you act like it's so easy, that they'll only kill ISIS members with done strikes. i'm no expert, but this is a hot issue and if they kill a few civilians, the US will have a shitstorm to worry about. it'll give russia more fire and reason to blame the US, and israel would use it to justify its actions.

Looks legit to me. It shows that humans can repeat whatever has happened in the past. Very disturbing.
As for why no jets yet, it is not in the interest of the US government nor economically beneficial to them to stop it.

Unless they are into special effects, video looks legit.

You mean the video?  Looked real to me.

ISIS needs some drones.  That would make their murderous rampage much more palatable.

How credible is the news?

The drones should take those people out. But not gonna happen, US like the chaos. This is horrible, barbaric is the word.

When infowars says it may be bull well....

http://www.infowars.com/nsa-doc-reveals-isis-leader-al-baghdadi-is-u-s-british-and-israeli-intelligence-asset/

Editor’s note: The validity of the document mentioned below cannot be verified due to the exclusivity of the Snowden cache. Cryptome sent a letter to various sources in possession of the documents, including The New York Times, Washington Post, The Guardian, Barton Gellman, Laura Poitrias, Glenn Greenwald, ACLU, EFF and others demanding an accounting. The allegation about ISIS and al-Baghdadi, however, pairs up with other information demonstrating ISIS is an intelligence asset.

Personally I believe ISIS is a monster of Iran's creation, not directly I add, but with their little Shia revolution 30 years ago, it was only a matter of time when Sunni extremists hostile to Shiite Islam stand up to counter Tehran's tentacles reaching across the Arab world with their own "brand" of Islamic revolution. This religious squabble has been going on since the death of Mohammed, it is nothing new.

No,  America manufactures it's own enemies in order to make big business fighting them.  (It's half the U.S. economy).   Not to mention the being in bed with Israel thing.

A lot of issues in that area of the world comes down to Middle Eastern tribalism, where everyone traces themselves to a patrilineal male ancestor and then they war each other under vendetta or religious pretexts.  Saddam's army was spending most of its' time fighting desert warlords in the boonies to keep Iraq together.  The Communists in Afghanistan faced the same issue.

.  We're not talking about some guy in the 1800s either, some of these tribes trace ancestries to guys back in the early Medieval Ages (way way before the nation states existed in Europe).  Tribal / Clan identity comes before nation or religious identity.

That's arguably the end result of societal practices.  Muslim Polygamy meant that rulers could have multiple wives / concubines and thus a patrilineal descendent was always ensured.  This is in contrast to European Dynasties which 98% would die out in the patrilineal line due to a lack of male children.

Because you are in bed with Israel and http://www.globalresearch.ca/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-trained-by-israeli-mossad-nsa-documents-reveal/5391593. 

Damn,this is depressing! But at least the Kurd offensive over the Mosul Dam is happening,although it may be a Pyrrhic victory. Man,the whole country has gone to the dogs since the US withdrawal. The whole region seems to be self-destructing. Syria,Gaza,Iraq,Afghanistan...

How's this any different then what the Austrians did in Serbia a hundred years ago, where they killed 57% of the male  population?  

Seeing as how the whole Ukraine thing is being tolerated in Europe right now it goes to show that we haven't changed in mindset from earlier times.  If ISIS was doing this in Britain no one would care, not even the Scottish or Welsh ("as long as they don't come here").

Jesus fucking christ!!

Disturbing shit...

http://shoebat.com/2014/07/29/rare-footage-muslims-create-literal-river-human-blood-butchering-1500-innocent-people/

Now tell me again why we aren't flying overhead with some A-10 Thunderbolts and spraying these 9th century barbarians with hell fire yet?