Topic: Israel wants to extort 300,000,000,000 dollars from Poland (Read 504 times)

First of all he didn't said that. He only wrote that Poland had the “hyena appetite” Source.
Secondly it's not a thread about historical revisionism and views of a notoriously drunk politician that Churchill was.  
Thirdly if you are quoting this priceless source of knowledge known as Wikipedia, why not quote parts that matter for the discussion?
Fourthly this region was captured by Czech army in 1920 in a back-stab like attack aimed at occupation of entire Silesia, only stopped by the Entente, while Poland was fighting the Bolsheviks. Besides approval doesn't mean cooperation.

Sounds like Turkey with what they are trying to do in Syria now.

I wonder where the so-called 'Polish nobility' (Zbignew Brzezinski's kin) came down on the operation.  I wonder the same thing about the so-called 'Young Turks' in Turkey's land grab.  Any the so-called House of Saud 'wahabists' in Saudi Arabia with their (laughably failing) land grab in Yemen.

That's just a pile of crap. Czechoslovakia, 1938.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts#Annexations_by_Poland_in_1938

Please consider reading "Bandici z Armii Krajowej" by Wojciech Lada.

Quote from: af_newbie on March 07, 2019, 11:19:22 AM

I hope Turks and Arabs will destroy their country.

They will take it over for sure, but no actual destruction will happen, Islamic Caliphate of Deutschland will be born instead. That will be only beginning of your problems, considering that turks and arabs aren't pussies. They'll wait few decades and then new supremacist ideology will be formed, which purpose will be to urge them to start collecting debts like the lands of former Prussia. It's 1/3 of current polish territory, just in case if you forget about that. And nobody will be able to stop them from doing so. NATO and USA will simply ignore that like Britain did in 1939. Sometimes they say that you should be afraid of your wishes, but it's already too late. The process has long been running and has become irreversible. Jews simply want to get something while there is still something to take. Because then, in place of Poland, there will be Arabs who will not give anything to them. That's it.

Agreed. Poland was a victim of Germany.

The state of Poland, it is argued, benefitted from the wrongful deaths.

But does Israel have standing to demand payment TO ISRAEL? Is Israel somehow a close cousin, or a favored friend of these unknown dead, by virtue of it being a champion of the same religion?

No. No way.

Update:
Regular Poles, shocked by the lack of action from their elected politicians, created so called "stop 447" bill, as a civil initiative. 200K signatures were gathered in order to pass this professionally prepared legislature to the parliament. This acts purpose is to prevent Polish politicians to even attend any negotiations with Jewish organisations in regard to heirless properties. With presidential election on the horizon, ruling party (that is know to have strange contacts with Chabad-Lubavitch) will surely try to keep this bill as much under the radars as possible. Is treason an option?

Heirless property by law belongs to the state or else we end up in a world torn apart by endless national, ethnic, religious and racial conflicts.

The Nuremberg trials is one way to make a civil law country act in common law.

I don't get why you're making such a big deal out of it. They want money, fine, so does everybody. It doesn't mean they will get it. Poland wanted more money from Germany because what they were given after the war was taken by the Russians, who were supposed to share with Poland, but we all know how such deals end up. You pay the foreman and don't care how he shares it between the workers, and such was the Germany's line of defense. Long story short, Poland did not get any additional money from Germany. What makes you think Israel will?

Is this why Poland must pay the Jews?
There was only one country during that awful WWII time, were handing a slice of bread to a starving, Jewish child was punished by death...
Despite that fact, people of that inconspicuous nation saved the most, ultimate punishment was no concern.
Watch this short clip, maybe share it in your social media but remember that those who tell the whole truth, annoy everybody.

I dont think that Isreal deserves this money, as the OP states, the Jews were Polish citizens and it just seems that Isreal just wants to get money from Poland. It there is no heirs, then sorry but the heritage goes to the government.

US Senate bills S447 and H.R.1226 have the potential to destroy US of A !

https://edwardoreid.wistia.com/medias/oix0cx65la
If you want to know more, check out this video (in English) linked above or below.
It was already banned off YouTube and vimeo once, here is the repost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baqgEDIUAyw
Man in the video appears to be an independent whistle-blower, self thought historian and undoubtedly true, American patriot.
Judging by my own historical knowledge, he is 100% accurate in his summary of those critical acts.

Thank you all for your responses, please let's keep this discussion as civil as possible.

They need to stockpile nuclear weapons now.  Increase the military budget, become the Pakistan of Eastern Europe.

Without nukes, nobody will treat them seriously.  Bullies only respect other bullies.

So 'the science is settled' eh?


Obtain and apply some Vaseline because the Zionist probably won't.  It's going to hurt.


You'll be taken over.  My advise would be to brainstorm for how to break out when the time is right and make prepartions to do so.  Stockpile some previsions.

World War II happened more than 7 decades ago. Can we just stop fighting over the repatriations? Israel has got its fair share of repatriations from Germany and the other axis nations. On the other hand, countries such as the (former) USSR, Poland and Serbia lost millions of civilians to Nazi atrocities (in the most barbaric conditions) and still they received only a fraction of what the Israelis got.

I am not saying that the Israelis received too much money. All I want to say is that things were settled long back and making new demands would be like opening the Pandora's box.

Let's start with the basics:
1. These claims are baseless and will never be acknowledged, because under the law (any common law including the law of the EU) abandoned property goes to the government if no relatives of the owner can be found, or enough time passes. Usually these are quite long periods like 15 or 20 years, depending on particular local law.
Try not paying your property tax and you'll see that after a few years you'll get a notice and then your property will go to the highest bidder.
2. Under the EU law abandoned property cannot be inherited by the government of another country. It can be only taken over by a relative of the former owner, or the local government of the country where the property is located.
3. AFAIK most of the real estate that Jews are showing claims to was completely wiped out during the war and rebuilt by either the Polish government, or by private parties.
4. They had 50 years to come back, but none of them wanted to because it was a poor communist country with high inflation. A frontier of the Soviet Union. They did not want to invest in something that was in ruins, but now, when it's rebuilt, they smell profit. Too late!

Poland, as well as the EU should ignore it. What are the Jews going to do? Remove their embassy? Revoke tourist visas?

I don't think the numbers are inflated. I think in the neighborhood of 6 million were butchered.  But even if there were twice as many killed reparations don't make sense.

The people paying the reparations would not be the people who committed the crimes. Taking money from them now would be a crime in itself.

+1

These claims are baseless. Poles did not kill these Polish Jews.  Germans did that.

Israelis are barking at the wrong tree.

Why is Israel even allowed to do this?  Israel did not exist when these atrocities were committed.  How can they claim that these Polish citizens were Israelis?  Being Jewish is not a nationality.  Judaism is a religion.  

I don't get it.  What the Polish government was supposed to do?  Wait half a century until some country in the future will make a claim.

Germans are the ones who started it all, they should be the ones to pay any damages.

Stalin and Allies mishandled the negotiations after WWII, Germany should have been paying much larger reparations to all countries involved.
How many Russians died?  22 million?  Make it 1 million per person, Germany should have been paying 22 Trillion to Russia alone.

What happened to the victims and their families after WWII is a disgrace.

They were simply Polish, that's it. Can you imagine Mexico doing this for 3rd generation Chicanos in the US? As far as America is concerned those are already American citizens and American laws apply. Israel don't even exist at the time.

I don't consider myself racist but this is stereotypical Jewish. I don't know about the legalities but I believe Poland can play the underdog. Considering Israel don't have a sparkling reputation, exposing that it's pulling strings in the US do force Poland to change its laws should make some people angry. Crazy how these bills were sponsored by Democrats who always criticize Republicans for being "too pro-Israel".

With The United States backing up Israel they are confident going around playing the victim and bullying others into giving what they demand.

Tired of hearing jews talk about world war 2 as well, every race has gone through hardships.  Those death numbers are over inflated.

All of that was very dark and tragic history
Jewish escaped from Vatican oppression over 1000 years ago
They were all Polish citizens together with refugees from India Romes his popular name are gypsy
Poland was huge empire  and  land of tolerances protestant  Lutherans and even musli from Crimea were living in Poland
Now that what is happening is politic
There is election campaign in Israel .Natanyahu is suspected for corruption so he and his people are looking for votes
It is awful because so many people experienced incredible tragedy and suffering
Still Poland is keeping memory about that unique culture what Jewish has created in Poland
There is big festival of Jewish culture.One week of dance and music
Poland is taking care of memory places etc
If anybody of you want to know about that Jewish culture what was in Poland than you can read Isaac B Singer books.He is very good writer and Noble Prize laureat
All that Jewish what were living in Poland were ordinary heavy working poor people
There was no so reach bankers like baron de Rothschild was
Those Jewish who are rising now that kind of concern are acting same way like Nazi propaganda was doing
And even they and his USA supporters are or lie or they are ignorants
There was agreement done between Poland USA and Israel reached i think around 1968 and all that question has been regulated
During second war Poland was alive
Poland has his underground army, government and courts
There was legal cases opened against Polish citizens for collaborating with Germans
But the sentence was only one death
And some Polish lost his life because they were sharing with Germans information about hided Jewish.
It was crime sentenced by death

WW2 was also big business for some people
At the end i going to bring famous quote of baron de Rothschild
Buy properties when blood is on the street

Not only Poland was one of the first countries invaded by Germany but also one of the most destroyed once. Additionally Polish citizens where one of the biggest group of people killed in prison camps after Judes. That was a very dark time in human history and I hope that people are not so clueless and all attempts to make money because of the war will be stopped.

I think that there is a different approach needed to resolve all these problems which war caused in all these different countries. We can not forget that borders changed after the end of the war and Russland took a piece of Poland and Poland took a piece of Germany. Only because of this there are a lot of problems with inheritance and acts of ownership.

There is mainly a problem with ownership on these new lands which Poland get after the war. One of the big cities where there was a lot of such cases is Wrocław (German name Breslau from before the war). One has to realize that the same problem has Poland with Russia (because of the lost lands) and there is nobody talking about billions of dollars, despite they took a very important piece of land called Littau (Litwa from Polish)which is like a historical capital city for Polish people.

An international organization is needed which will consist of representatives from all interested countries.
This organization is supposed to get unrestricted access to all necessary documents in all countries and specially appointed specialists should enumerate what everyone should consider taking into account as already mentioned factors(change of borders, size of damage and destruction, a current state of the economy, etc.)

It can not be, that today after all these years, different countries are jumping into their throats and are imposing some real compensation from countries that are undergoing deep reorganization and are struggling with deep budgetary problems and rising inflation.

Poland has not started this war and is just a victim as Israel and its citizens. In my opinion, all that money should still be paid by Germans that unleashed the Second World War or an International War Insurance Organisation which should be established long time ago to run such cases.

I know they were, but they have been pushing them again recently. Also the EU is trying to pressure Poland and a few other remaining nations to allow themselves to be overrun with illegal immigrants with no interest in integrating. Eastern Europe has a long history of fighting off these invaders. IMO the Israeli claim is just to try to force Poland to comply with the EU demands using financial war. Israel is in a much better position to use force against anyone than Poland is. Also since Poland was arguably one of the biggest victims of WW2 I find this idea they should pay reparations asinine. It amazes me how a people could suffer their own attempted genocide then run around perpetrating all those same horrible behaviors on other groups within 1 lifetime.

Completely stupid and extremely racist demand.

Poles citizens that happened to be Jewish should be considered Israel citizens? Ridiculous. That's exactly saying "we're not normal humans we're Jews. We're different from the rest of the world". Extremely racist when you come to think about it.

It's even more ridiculous when you take into account that they ask that to POLAND. Which is one of the major victim of WW2. It's not like they had a choice into seeing those citizens sent to death...

And what whould have the Poland government done? In 1941 they were supposed to say "oh wait, we will wait for the war to be over and a Jewish country established so that we can give them what our Jewish citizens possess"?

If such thing were to happen that would clearly increase antisemitism and conspiracies theories about Jews and for a damn good reason!!!

Well those claims where there much, much earlier. Many nations like Hungary, France, Switzerland have had already paid a lot of money for their ww2 offences. Poland however was the only nation, that never collaborated with Nazi Germany, Poles just don't feel like they owe something to Jewish international community and most of Poles are also against claims of reparations from Germans. We know that they have no such money, that it will harm ordinary citizens and brake our relationships.

Harsh words... no need to offend an entire nation my friend.
I really do hope your expectations won't come in to existence because, I'm not sure if Poland on it's own, can save Europe one more time.

Germans learned squat after WWI and WWII.

I would not be surprised if they will be the root cause of WWIII.  These people are sick to the core.

I hope Turks and Arabs will destroy their country.  They deserve it.

I have a feeling this is being pushed in retaliation for this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-should-pay-poland-1-trillion-reparations-world-war-ii-government-a7929561.html

Also Poland is not submitting to being overrun with hoards of barbarians pushed by the EU, so they have even more reason to sandbag Poland.

     For a few decades Poland has been pressed by Israel, and recently even by USA, to pay compensation for heirless properties that in accordance with Polish inheritance law, were rightfully taken over by the Polish state.
Poland keeps refusing paying any compensation but the demands made by Jewish organisations only keep on growing, so clearly Poland needs to do something about it but fulfilling the demands would mean for Poland to be be literally colonised.
 
Heirless properties vs properties with heirs

     For clarity, any heirs have legal paths to claim compensations from Poland and many of them did that. The issue is about compensation for heirless properties. The amount demanded by the state of Israel is about $300 billions.
It is a multiplicity of Poland's budget.

Jews in Poland - a historical note.

     Jews have been living in Poland for at lest 750[1] years. They assimilated rather well with the society, mostly spoke Polish language and were good citizens. Jews in Poland have been enjoying full liberties as other Polish citizens did. Because Poland was their homeland Polish citizenship was the only citizenship they had. They were Polish citizens. In the census from 1931[2], out of 30m of Polish population around 3m were Jews. Poland had the highest number of Jews living in any country in the world, clearly, there must have been a reason why Jews chose to live in Poland in such great numbers. Jews were free to move to other countries but for some reason they chose to stay in Poland. The reason was obvious Jews knew that no other country would offer them greater freedom and privileges than Poland. So they did not move anywhere[3].
     During WW2, 6 millions of Poles died, of which 3 millions were of Jewish origin, that means overwhelming majority of Jews living in Poland died. Because most of Jews left no heirs, by law, properties they owned was taken over by Polish State. Such move was in accordance with Polish inheritance law that is no different that inheritance law in many other countries deriving its inheritance law from Roman Law. In the end, these Jews that where killed in German death camps, were mostly Polish citizens. They lived in Poland, they spoke Polish language, to lesser or greater extent were assimilated with Polish communities. Because the scale of the Holocaust was so vast, the number of empty, ownerless properties was also big. In Warsaw case, German bombing flatten[4] out the whole districts, so properties needed to be rebuild from the ground up.

Nuremberg Trials and German compensations

Today, 70 years after the war, Nuremberg Trials are not part of common knowledge. In today's dollars, Germans have paid 14,500,000,000 dollars[5] to Israel for the Holocaust.

Compensation claims

     From Israeli point of view Poles of Jewish origin that died in Holocaust weren't Poles. There were Jews, so the compensation is a must. For that to happen, Israel demands from Poland to break it's own inheritance law and create precedence or some sort of tribal inheritance law. From Polish point of view, there is no issue at all, because inheritance law makes the case crystal clear. If there are living heirs they have opened legal paths through Polish courts to claim compensation.
Organisation like World Jewish Congress or State of Israel, that in no way are representing Poles of Jewish origin that died in Holocaust, by Polish law have no right to demand any compensation whatsoever. By any objective legal measure, Poland hold the moral high-ground and does not need to worry about anything, however Israel is a superpower, both militarily and in media.

World Jewish Congress

     In 1996, a chairman of World Jewish Congress[6], Israel Singer[7], said:
More than three million Jews died in Poland, and the Polish people are not going to be the heirs of the Polish Jews. We are never going to allow this. (...) They're gonna hear from us until Poland freezes over again." If Poland did not satisfy Jewish claims it would be "publicly attacked and humiliated"[8]

US Senate bills S447 and H.R.1226

     Last December American Jewish faction entered the game of compensation for heirless property by passing two bills that aim at putting even more pressure on Poland to change it's own inheritance law. That is bill S.447[9] and H.R.1226[10] that are a complete legal(or rather illegal) dud[11][12]

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1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Kalisz
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_census_of_1931
3. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-of-europe-before-the-holocaust-map
4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx3aGiurRbQ & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Warsaw
5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany
6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Singer
8. https://web.archive.org/web/20110719115337/http://zaprasza.net/a_y.php?mid=21357
9. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/447/text?format=txt
10. https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1226
11. https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/78200.pdf
12. http://www.michalkiewicz.pl/do_sciagniecia/uklad_miedzy_rzadem_prl_a_rzadem_usa_dotyczacy_roszczen.pdf [indemnization
     agreement USA-PRL(Poland) July 16, 1960 polish version]

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     In your posts please, stay away from anything related to Holocaust. I am bringing this up so that you don't have to. That chapter has been closed in Nuremberg a few decades ago. I am seeking a serious answer, political answer, on how Poland could play the ball, maintain moral high-ground, free itself from being bullied by Israel and USA and most importantly, avoid being taken over by Israel. What is the best political move that Poland can make to cease these compensation demands, made by no-heirs or by institutions that in no way represent Poles of Jewish origin that died of German national-socialists hands?