Are IRL chisese merchants not yet accepting btc?
Apart from a couple of the "meetups" I am not aware of any Chinese merchants accepting BTC (apart from Avalon who are actually a US registered company).
Topic: It is illegal to spend bitcoins in China (Read 4465 times)
Apart from a couple of the "meetups" I am not aware of any Chinese merchants accepting BTC (apart from Avalon who are actually a US registered company).
Are IRL chisese merchants not yet accepting btc?
i keep hearing that bitcoin is booming in china but then i hear all of these regulations happening over there, what is the real story?
The CCTV piece was mostly neutral on bitcoin as it REPORTED a phenomena that most people never heard of. It's a stretch to say CCTV supports bitcoin.
The CCTV also spoke favorably about Fa Lun Gong (FLG is a religious group), a year before the government started to crack down hard on it. At the peak FLG had nearly 100M members, nowadays FLG hardly even exists in China.
Also, remember the Chinese government is not a tightly united group, there are tons of different interest group and leftist/rightist organizations battling for power and controll, within the umbrella of Chinese Communist Party. Sometimes the Chinese government will seem to be favorable to something, and then over night, another group takes over power within the party, and start cracking down on it.
Looks like this is just a way to get more dollars/euros etc. As processing power to mine will be produced more cheaply in China as are many goods it becomes a profitable export industry like semiconductors or any other real product produced in China. This is a net gain for them. This isn't much different than the trade of any other goods. The China government policy is to extract resources through a favorable balance of trade. We will likely have a stagnation in the BTC price as production shifts to China with an associated lowering of cost without a proportional increase in demand.
Did anyone bother to check the date of that article? Its positively ancient in Internet terms. This is a non-story.
The CCTV piece was mostly neutral on bitcoin as it REPORTED a phenomena that most people never heard of. It's a stretch to say CCTV supports bitcoin.
The state ALWAYS reads laws a way that is profitable for the state.
No argument with that - I think that the state (PRC) will of course only allow what it thinks is going to be beneficial to itself (but even that is a complicated thing).
I know a lot of entities who issued bitcoins - Deepbit, Slush, 50BTC...
I think that is a bit of a *reach* (the Chinese government is not stupid).
The state ALWAYS reads laws a way that is profitable for the state.
I know a lot of entities who issued bitcoins - Deepbit, Slush, 50BTC...
I think that is a bit of a *reach* (the Chinese government is not stupid).
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/ebusiness/china-limits-use-of-virtual-currency/218101859
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Quote
"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services," the Ministries said.
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
What issuer? Who issues bitcoins?
That law had to do with Q coins. Since there is no issuer of bitcoins, it does not apply to bitcoins.
I know a lot of entities who issued bitcoins - Deepbit, Slush, 50BTC...
Credit card purchases cheap yes, but how ubiquitous is acceptance of plastic.
When it comes to "bricks and mortar" shops maybe not that huge but on Taobao (the Chinese eBay) it is *huge* (we are talking millions of tx's per day).
I don't think Chinese gov will forbid it in short time.
And I don't care if she do it.I will keep holding my btc.
And I don't care if she do it.I will keep holding my btc.
yet, CCTV is bringing a long piece. if it was considered illegal they would have mentioned this.
in fact - from a strategic prespective china should love to have a strong bitcoin. if chinese manufacturers would stop piling up USD and get something of value instead like gold or bitcoin they could very slowly reduce the amount of T-Bills held. All their bilateral swap agreements aim towards that. their accumulation of gold aims towards that.
if i were a chinese official looking at bitcoin, i would promote it for international trade very gently to bring it slowly to a state where it helps them with their exports.
in fact - from a strategic prespective china should love to have a strong bitcoin. if chinese manufacturers would stop piling up USD and get something of value instead like gold or bitcoin they could very slowly reduce the amount of T-Bills held. All their bilateral swap agreements aim towards that. their accumulation of gold aims towards that.
if i were a chinese official looking at bitcoin, i would promote it for international trade very gently to bring it slowly to a state where it helps them with their exports.
I don't think it's right for btc to help a govt that has no problem with exports because they use slave labor for production. There's nothing ok with putting btc in a PRC govt officials' hands. Give their starving a chance, for the love of all things holy and otherwise.
The likelihood of Chinese using Bitcoin to buy things at this stage would be hopeful at best (the charges for credit card purchases here are amongst the lowest in the world).
I think that the fact that Bitcoin is *decentralised* is helpful in comparison with something like QQ coins (i.e. it doesn't threaten the value of the RMB like a private organisation just *printing* virtual money could).
Where this will lead is hard to say but as China holds so much USD (that gets worth less and less every day) I don't think they are going to be that quick to try and stop it.
I think that the fact that Bitcoin is *decentralised* is helpful in comparison with something like QQ coins (i.e. it doesn't threaten the value of the RMB like a private organisation just *printing* virtual money could).
Where this will lead is hard to say but as China holds so much USD (that gets worth less and less every day) I don't think they are going to be that quick to try and stop it.
Credit card purchases cheap yes, but how ubiquitous is acceptance of plastic.
While you see many signs and terminals indicating plastic money is accepted, the truth is plastic is generally untrusted and most merchants will refuse plastic outright. I'd say 95%. Why?
Many reasons, mainly though, people think if you don't pay with cash, its a trick and you're stealing. Period.
The PRC is not a nation that values it's people. IT OWNS THEM.
yet, CCTV is bringing a long piece. if it was considered illegal they would have mentioned this.
in fact - from a strategic prespective china should love to have a strong bitcoin. if chinese manufacturers would stop piling up USD and get something of value instead like gold or bitcoin they could very slowly reduce the amount of T-Bills held. All their bilateral swap agreements aim towards that. their accumulation of gold aims towards that.
if i were a chinese official looking at bitcoin, i would promote it for international trade very gently to bring it slowly to a state where it helps them with their exports.
in fact - from a strategic prespective china should love to have a strong bitcoin. if chinese manufacturers would stop piling up USD and get something of value instead like gold or bitcoin they could very slowly reduce the amount of T-Bills held. All their bilateral swap agreements aim towards that. their accumulation of gold aims towards that.
if i were a chinese official looking at bitcoin, i would promote it for international trade very gently to bring it slowly to a state where it helps them with their exports.
Oh no no, but it aired on a government censored network. Herp. That means they gave bitcoin the go ahead because they want to destabilize the United States. Derp.
Ah yes, socialized communism, where holding hands in public can cause pandemonium. I say we pay back our Chinese monetary debt with BTC. While they figure out what to do with them, we lace up our ASICs and cancel those codes.
Chinese citizens may not cause bitcoins to be used as real currency by law, whereas party members are free to mine, trade, and cash out btc.
I thought btc stood for the end of such political controls over a large population.
Now how do we fix it, and more importantly, how do we support the proBTC movement in china with btc.
I wish our posts had a little country flag, so we could triage support to those billions of btc deprived folks. And how do you ensure btc doesn't end up in party control... That's harder.
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/ebusiness/china-limits-use-of-virtual-currency/218101859
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Quote
"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services," the Ministries said.
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
What issuer? Who issues bitcoins?
That law had to do with Q coins. Since there is no issuer of bitcoins, it does not apply to bitcoins.
The likelihood of Chinese using Bitcoin to buy things at this stage would be hopeful at best (the charges for credit card purchases here are amongst the lowest in the world).
I think that the fact that Bitcoin is *decentralised* is helpful in comparison with something like QQ coins (i.e. it doesn't threaten the value of the RMB like a private organisation just *printing* virtual money could).
Where this will lead is hard to say but as China holds so much USD (that gets worth less and less every day) I don't think they are going to be that quick to try and stop it.
I think that the fact that Bitcoin is *decentralised* is helpful in comparison with something like QQ coins (i.e. it doesn't threaten the value of the RMB like a private organisation just *printing* virtual money could).
Where this will lead is hard to say but as China holds so much USD (that gets worth less and less every day) I don't think they are going to be that quick to try and stop it.
So this means Chinese can invest in Bitcoin, but can't [legally] buy dog food with it.
Officials know that Chinese investing (and formation of more Chinese exchanges) will raise its value and contribute to stability, thus making it a more realistic alternative to the U.S. dollar for others elsewhere in the world. This is a way to hurt the U.S. without hurting the Yuan (at least until the Chinese rebel and start using bitcoins for purchases anyways...)
I'm not complaining.
I'm sure all the butthurt bears who think market forces are inherently evil will think "Oh no, they are spending X % vs. hoarding X %, that meets my imaginary ratio limit of what makes you a 'evil 1% speculator,' they are going to crash the bear market, long slow slide, buttcon is going dooowwwnnnn, increase in demand in china will cause price to go downnnn, thus violating the most fundamental law of economics which is supply vs demand dictates price, I am an idiot, look at my low post count, by the way, here's a graph with some scary red lines"
I'm sorry that investment does not automatically equal instability, that's just not the way the world works
you can't buy a gallon of gas with stock registered in the Dow Jones but it's a lot more stable than bitcoin and it is a market of 100% speculators... 
Officials know that Chinese investing (and formation of more Chinese exchanges) will raise its value and contribute to stability, thus making it a more realistic alternative to the U.S. dollar for others elsewhere in the world. This is a way to hurt the U.S. without hurting the Yuan (at least until the Chinese rebel and start using bitcoins for purchases anyways...)
I'm not complaining.
I'm sure all the butthurt bears who think market forces are inherently evil will think "Oh no, they are spending X % vs. hoarding X %, that meets my imaginary ratio limit of what makes you a 'evil 1% speculator,' they are going to crash the bear market, long slow slide, buttcon is going dooowwwnnnn, increase in demand in china will cause price to go downnnn, thus violating the most fundamental law of economics which is supply vs demand dictates price, I am an idiot, look at my low post count, by the way, here's a graph with some scary red lines"
I'm sorry that investment does not automatically equal instability, that's just not the way the world works
you can't buy a gallon of gas with stock registered in the Dow Jones but it's a lot more stable than bitcoin and it is a market of 100% speculators... 
China already banned Q-Coin, product of the chinese company Tencent QQ, because people started trading it for the real-world goods and it became a possible threat to chinese yuan.
QQ coins are still very much alive and well - it is simply that they can't be exchanged for RMB but instead only for the purchase of goods and/or services (basically this was to stop one company from effectively being able to create inflation by arbitrarily printing its own "money" which if course is not really the same situation with Bitcoins).
Also what is *legal* is not the same as what is *enforced* and in fact what is *common practice*.
Quote
The official Xinhua News Agency reported in November 2006 that the Chinese central bank may begin supervision of virtual currencies as they could affect the value of the yuan. The People’s Bank of China would put Q-coins issued by Tencent Holdings Ltd. under its oversight if they entered wider circulation, Xinhua reported at the time.
Virtual currency may only be used to buy online game items, the Ministry of Culture said in today’s statement. Game operators must provide the ministry with information about their virtual currencies, according to the statement.
Virtual currency may only be used to buy online game items, the Ministry of Culture said in today’s statement. Game operators must provide the ministry with information about their virtual currencies, according to the statement.
Quote
Having seen the increase of illegal currency trade and its impact on the economy, the Chinese government banned Q-coins for purchasing real goods and services in 2009.
So only Tencent QQ goods and services could be purchased with Q-Coin.
China already banned Q-Coin, product of the chinese company Tencent QQ, because people started trading it for the real-world goods and it became a possible threat to chinese yuan.
QQ coins are still very much alive and well - it is simply that they can't be exchanged for RMB but instead only for the purchase of goods and/or services (basically this was to stop one company from effectively being able to create inflation by arbitrarily printing its own "money" which if course is not really the same situation with Bitcoins).
Also what is *legal* is not the same as what is *enforced* and in fact what is *common practice*.
Related thread - 1.35 billion people won't adopt Bitcoin.
Nah, no one cares about that. Seriously, game gold mining is an extremely profitable and public job in China. It's a defunct or dead law.
The link clearly states that gold farming is allowed. It's a 9 digit export industry, it would be foolish to ban fat western geeks from paying money to the chinese game farmers. What it's forbidden is using the virtual currency as real money outside the specific context it was intended for, like game items or voip minutes.
That means mining Bitcoin is not illegal; exchanging to and from real cash and owning bitcoins are also legal. There are no "in game" purchases for bitcoin, the whole point is real world use as a replacement currency and that it's specifically banned in China. So chinese can only speculate, not use bitcoin for purchasing anything directly. Bussines as usual for bitcoin, China is a huge growth market (/jk).
Oh no no, but it aired on a government censored network. Herp. That means they gave bitcoin the go ahead because they want to destabilize the United States. Derp.
China already banned Q-Coin, product of the chinese company Tencent QQ, because people started trading it for the real-world goods and it became a possible threat to chinese yuan.
If China decided bitcoin is a problem they could decide to enforce this once more.
What does it mean "If China decides"? Do you think that whole CCTV issue was just another version of the "Hundred Flowers Campaign"?
Not really, just making sure we are saying what we mean to be saying and playing Devil's advocate.
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/ebusiness/china-limits-use-of-virtual-currency/218101859
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Quote
"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services," the Ministries said.
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Elwar you turned BEAR? noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
If China decided bitcoin is a problem they could decide to enforce this once more.
What does it mean "If China decides"? Do you think that whole CCTV issue was just another version of the "Hundred Flowers Campaign"?
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/ebusiness/china-limits-use-of-virtual-currency/218101859
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Nah, no one cares about that. Seriously, game gold mining is an extremely profitable and public job in China. It's a defunct or dead law.Quote
"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services," the Ministries said.
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Laws do not expire unless they are overturned, they only stop being enforced at the discretion of the authorities. If China decided bitcoin is a problem they could decide to enforce this once more. Just trying to cover all the angles.
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/ebusiness/china-limits-use-of-virtual-currency/218101859
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Nah, no one cares about that. Seriously, game gold mining is an extremely profitable and public job in China. It's a defunct or dead law. Quote
"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services," the Ministries said.
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
http://www.informationweek.com/internet/ebusiness/china-limits-use-of-virtual-currency/218101859
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
Quote
"The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services," the Ministries said.
I wonder why they failed to mention that in the documentary.
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