Topic: It's F'n happening ----- Polk VS. Negreanu HUNL Grudge Match (Read 1056 times)

Couldn't agree more. I laugh as I play a lot on GGnetwork lately. They give you a decent player profile, 3 or 4 hud stats, and an overall winnings on GG. I always make sure now to double chek the earnings(not the best factor)because under 750 total I dial back all bluffs. I used to get to the river and make a reasonable bluff, only to have been called down 2 or 3 streets with floped 3rd pair or something crazy. Same table will have a guy who's won 200$ and people 200K plus in winnings, wide range of experiences. Love it though because that bit of info everyone gets has helped me adjust massively.

I haven't seen the entire podcast yet. I think it was early to pullout, maybe take a few weeks off and regroup then go at it and at least get over the halfway mark.

I actually have been waiting for the Hellmuth prop bet to get started, where he has to try and be profitable in 25K touneys. Pretty sure it was accepted between him and Dnegs so that will be fun to track.

^  The thing is, when you’re playing low stakes, just play fundamentally solid ABC poker and you’ll win.  Just grind and avoid fancy play syndrome.  But if you’re playing for sh*ts and gigs, then sure..  You go ahead and do the fancy stuff.  Lol. 

Doug Polk had an interview with a couple of people, one from Landon Tice’s team talking about the challenge.  For Doug, he thinks Tice pulled out too early.

Never have I read a more truthful statement on the internet. It's funny uping the strategy game when your bankroll is still micros/low because following it to a T will leave you a losing player. Mainly people don't know when they are supposed to fold, leads to them overcalling and that will always be -ev. It doesn't make them a better player or a winning player but it will hit you with more suckouts.
Blinked and it was over. I caught the first 2 sessions on and off at work I believe. I recall Landon, being a bit liberal with his A high bluffcatch for stacks. I wasn't that hyped for the match, I think Landon is a neat character and have seen him popping up in a bunch of vlogs and appearances, but it all seemed really rushed for him to be taking on a HU challenge. I don't know his overall strategy, but he started as Cash, and has been playing a ton of tournaments so maybe he just didn't prepare enough and was overconfident.

I don't know much about the rest but I'm guessing he figured overall it was cheaper to quit now than let it run it's course and not beat the handicap he gave.

^  Be careful applying those moves they do at high stakes in your own play at the softer micro - low stakes games.  The mind set at the high level is different from low level games so it’s mostly better to nit up and stick with the basics at lower stakes.

And most of the time, those guys at high stakes poker usually have some play history vs each other.  So those ‘moves’ are really based off the reads they already have vs their opponents.

Anyway, dropped by to ask if anybody followed Landon Tice vs Bill Perkins HU challenge..?

I'm really loving Doug's retirment so far. He can't help himself it seems. About a month ago, he showed up and was playing at one of the Texas Card houses, I thin khe wound up on stream. Then I saw he registered this, and streamed the live draw for matchups. I'm gonna go back and skim through some of whatever is online next set of nighshifts.

I haven't looked into it, but don't remember many tournaments like this in the past. Seems like HUNL is in a bit of a revival with all the challenges that have been going down the last year or so.
Sorry totally missed this.

For you poker fans out there.  Ivey vs Antonius HU battle at WPT.  I think Joe Ingram is going to be on the mic.  So it should he good.  Enjoy!  

Ivey vs Antonius WPT Heads Up Championship Finals.  Live!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daR3q3KKQ0o

Mind if you do the tldr version?

I dont catch most of it. All I've seen on the video was that instead of using multiple preflop chart like Dneg, he is only using one provided by his team . Lots of people have been using this and most of them are winning players in poker. If you play regularly and encounter lots of similar spot , you can basically execute the same action shown on those charts without even looking at it anymore


Isnt it necessary to have pre flop ranges on certain position? Thats what differ you from all those recreational players that only open hands based on " I think this is a good hand ". Of course this only applies to winning players and by winning players , I refer it to those that make their livings from poker by basically getting X amount each month instead of 'gambling' with it

It's a good watch. I've been seeing and reading things like this quite a bit, especially in regards to Cash Games. People essentially call it solved, mainly because there are less variables - no antes and for example generally 100BB deep.

I don't know how close MTT's are getting but I remember when I first found out people use HUD's and will make certain calls in a spot just based on your stats. It blew my mind.  It's really no different than anything else where there is an opportunity to make someone else's money yours. Some people will do anything to win where others have a line somewhere. Personally I have ranges for pre-flop action, I don't use them to play only to study and compare how well I'm sticking to my range. I will review a spot after the hand has played if I was completely lost, but that's about as close to RTA as I get.

Maybe the difference is I love to play. I also really enjoy challenging myself to be better, without aides.

It will be interesting to see what the future of online Poker brings.

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For whatever reason I assumed they were only going to have their preflop ranges simply displayed as a grid format. I had no idea it was essentially a solved sim for preflop. This is where live poker will always be much more exciting as an exhibition. I'm hoping this year will be my chance to play my first live tournament.

Watch this.

More Charts Aren’t Better:  GTO Musings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my-HidIXbmU

I have no idea why Doug would expose himself like that.  I feel like he’s leveling everybody and he’s really trying to expose the state of online poker as it actually is today:  That it’s not poker anymore.  The spirit of the game is dead.

^  Rofl!  The pleasure was mine...  As usual.    I tend to get the losing end of these side bets I’m making here in the gambling section.  I think I have two more losing side bets.  With Trofo and another guy I forgot about.    I think it was with Death Angel.

Address sent. Pleasure doing business with you 

I really didn't feel confident I was going to win the bet until the homestretch. Especially after losing the biggest session of the challenge I for sure thought it was going to keep narrowing the lead. I did watch that video Doug put out and he was very specific.

I thought a lot about what he was saying with Dnegs bluffing and overvaluing on how good the spot was. Not that they weren't good bluff spots but that his cards made it a weaker bluff than it should be, like having a pair and a blocker to the nuts as opposed to just blockers.

Weirdest thing about it all was I never looked into their coaching teams, and didn't realise Dnegs wasn't working with any High stakes HU players

Well thanks to that, he won the challenge otherwise it would have been different. So far I think Dneg only manage to catch Doug's bluff like 2 out of 10 and Doug won alot of decent pot thanks to that. In few early hands of the challenge, Dneg would fold to Doug's Turn all in shove but later Dneg tried to made few hero calls which end up pretty bad for him

I guess people dont call Doug as the best HU player for nothing huh but overall Dneg is better than most of the old live player. Helmuth would have lose alot more in this challenge imo

^  Hah.  I guess I owe somebody 10 bucks.  Lol.  

Steamtyme, just send me your BTC address so I can ship it your way asap.  Thanks.  

And here’s a vid uploaded by Doug at YT..  It’s basically a recap of the match and his assesment on how good he thinks DNegs played.  It was a fair ‘B - B+’.  He thought DNegs should be a little more aggro in some spots and fight for pots.

My REAL Thoughts on How Negreanu Played
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuM3IsRxBEw

Updating this thread with the latest results

Doug Polk +$946,085.32 over 23,282 hands

The entire challenge has 1718 hands to go and at this point, I dont see how Dneg could turn this around. Dneg won the biggest session with +$390,032.13 over 1046 hands then Doug switch to a new limping strategy to lower the variances of the pot sizes then take further lead on this challenge

Does anyone made any bet on Doug?  

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Final result :

Doug Polk won the challenge with rough estimate of $1.2 M

Here's to hoping. Was getting less comfortable until todays results.

Doug managed to win a decent one pulling back 100K+, so he's back over 600K - I believe it was a 600 hand day which makes sense Daniel has cut the session shorter when he gets down. Definitely not over but this makes it a harder path to victory for Daniel.

Depending on what bets he took, Daniel is still going to be losing. Pretty sure he didn't bet against himself. If he took Perkins up on his 10:1 to beat Doug he still loses 100K there or whatever stake they went with. No matter what if he didn't bet on himself to lose, he's losing more.

Now if he pull out the win, Doug is losing a ton of cash, and I have to kiss my 50 good bye 

If the hand counter is at exactly 15,250 hands right now that means we have 9,750 hands to go. Recently they will play exactly 750 hands on each session so 13 more sessions to go.

12 Buy in and 13 more sessions to go, that is going to be rough for Dneg to win 1 buy in on average for the remaining sessions.


Yeah he needs to dominate the remaining sessions.


The best scenario would be Doug to win the this HU Match with less than $50k advantage over Dneg. $50k is basically peanut for Dneg and that means the only loser of this match would be those backing up Dneg for the side bet 

^  How many hands to go?  Chasing 12 buyins against Doug HU is a very tall order.  DNegs would need more than just play good.  He’ll need an absolute god mode heater.

Anyway..  I think I’m gonna owe somebody 10 bucks in a couple of weeks or so.  Lolol.  

Dneg currently on his 4th winning streak. The last session ended up with Dneg having +$132k with overall result of +$484k over 15,250 hands for Doug. Its still almost half a million advantage for Doug but if this winning streak continue then Dneg might be able to catch up somehow. Even if he doesnt, he probably wouldnt be losing that much

Doug even tweeted that Dneg plays alot more better recently so expect to see some surprise from Doug for the next session. He is definitely not going to let Dneg keep on winning


This will be great if it happens

^  So how’s my guy DNegs doing?  Lol.  I don’t think he’ll catch up vs Doug without doubling up the stakes and getting a heater imo.  Doug is just too skilled in online HUNL.

Anyway, I hope Pokergo brings them back again and have the last 500 hands played live with hole cards cameras.  

Daniel currently has 3 streak winning session, not much for the last one only up by $27k but he is definitely catching up nw


Its not going to happen.

According to https://upswingpoker.com/doug-polk-vs-daniel-negreanu-grudge-match-rules/. The stake will be the same until the end of the game and if they want to increase the stake, they would need to start a new HU match after this hit 25,000 hands


It could be ending somewhere around that. They usually play for 3 sessions a week on average and recently they play exact amount of either 500 or 750 hands for each session. Its currently on 14,500 hands so it should be around 4-5 weeks to go

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Pokershares currently has Dneg on 9.5x odds

So we are 1 or 2 sessions past the half way mark, and it's still Doug up by 644K.

It's definitely been better for Daniel the last few sessions booking wins, with almost 100K over 750 hands the last session out. I was hoping they were going to up the stakes, would have been crazy to see the size the pots could have got to then. I'm guessing if they keep up this pace we see the end of the challenge in the first week of February or something.

Not enough but its definitely better than keep on losing. Dneg was -$957k then crawled back to - $696k. Over 100k positive results in just two session. Far from good and winning this HU match


Probably on 28th December because that is the next planned session after today's session. They play an average of 250 hands per hour of session and average of 2 hours + session each time and currently at 11,318 hands. Dneg probably wouldnt turn all the tide at 12,500 hand mark but it would be great if he rack up another 100k positive results in the next two sessions

I'm hearing Dnegs is getting better and better as they rack up more sessions but not enough to claw his way back to even so far.  When do you guys think the match crosses the 12.5k hand mark?  Can't wait for the stakes to go up.

Oh...  Doug is at HSP season 8.  I haven't watched it yet, just saw the preview.

Thats fancy of Doug to give away his thought process especially when the game is not over. Well given that he is ahead for half a million, he might want to let Dneg get some of this information


Thats a 44 minutes video ( around 35 minutes if you cut out the intro and outro ) of only 5 hands. I'd rather watch the actual session for around 35 minutes or so by skipping few of the rounds and only check on the hands with huge pot


They probably will once it is all over . GGPoker youtube channel does make those highlights, just type in ggpoker on your search bar

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DNeg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 14 in around an hour

Here's a breakdown of the match's top 5 hands according to Doug and his thought process.  I haven't watched it yet but should be good.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzb_m_DayWg

And I wish they make highlights of each session.  I can't watch a two hour session and not see what they have.  Too boring.

Yeah DNeg played well but the cards are in not in his favour . Doug on the other hand feels so proud in his post match interview to have win that huge amount in one session despite that it was mostly pretty nasty coolers. Thats one thing about poker especially headsUp, you wont make it to the pot unless the card is in your favour. What makes it worst was that lot of those coolers are all in and Dneg loses around 300k just for a session.

Here is Daniel's In Depth "funny" analysis on How To lose $300,000 in 3 hours  

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DNeg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 12

DNeg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 13

So that last session was huge, I tuned in for the last 40 minutes or so on joeys stream and it was the best balance I've seen in the limited viewing. He had Landen Tice giving some decent commentary for hands, what ifs based on play and then breakdown for decent pots at showdown, but mixed in just being goofy and entertaining.

The last 15 minutes were pretty crazy as Doug squeezed an extra 100K out over a few hands. Some pretty sick coolers for Daniel. Bright side is now that Doug has a decent lead he's got a tweet floating around if it gets 25K retweets he'll stream Fridays session. He's also being reasonable and not acting like it's superior play alone guaranteeing his win rate.

Pretty sure the next one starts up right away, but it should be interesting to see where they stand at the end of the week.

Right now Doug is up 596K over 5751 hands. Lots of game left to play.

Its live not life btw. Yeah this is pretty much gold mine for alot of people, alot of players / streamers has been given the chance to do some commentary during the game and such. To be honest, I still think that DNeg will try to close the gap once more, he works pretty hard for this with his team and even if he lose in the end, it will be a close one between those two


Im not sure about Doug but DNeg is probably sponsored by GGPoker for few percentage of his stake. GGPoker stream this HU match everytime and they also had DNeg give postmatch interview everytime the round is over.

The odds are unfortunately against DNegs. He is just from another era of poker. His specialty is playing life poker with camera present, not multi tables fast path online poker. If the hole challenge was online, DNegs would be crushing him. It's still an awesome challenge and attracts a huge crowd of viewers.

In the end the losses we see here are not his real losses of course. I am sure he sold a stake of this action and he his definitely getting money from casinos for doing this.

The rules also allow for the losing player after 12,500 to double the stakes. It'll be interesting, so long as one of them has a decent lead I imagine it's a no-brainer to up the stakes if the losing player decides to carry on.

I'm tempted to actually go back and watch the last session. Simply from the remarks it sounds like it was a more focused gameplay session than previously. I find it hard to believe but I think Doug tweeted there wasn't a single All-in, which I find crazy given the totals at the end.

This would be super fun to watch. It's probably more along the lines of a format people expected Dnegs to pick. I've already learned about a new game format just from the tweet.

I'll admit I pretty much just check Dougs tweets to see how the session faired cash wise. You really need good banter from whoever is hosting to be able to sit back and watch an entire session. Without showdown even 3-bet pots, with c-bets on the flop and turn, wind up being dull.

I dont think that either of them can request this. According to the rules, the loser after 12,500 hands would be able to request another 12,500 hands with the same stakes . If either of them lose, Im pretty sure this will continue until 25,000 hands because neither would want to accept the fact that they got crushed.

DNeg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 11

Doug crushed DNeg on round 11. Doug was getting $120k on Round 11 and total of over $264k overall for 5067 hands. Over a quarter million loss for DNeg and they will play round 12 this saturday.

^  It's gonna be interesting...  I think a few more buyins lost, Dnegs will request for a double up in stakes.  And you gotta wonder how well Doug plays when he's taken out of his comfort zone.

He could easily turn this around. Back then we was down over a quarter million, everyone thought that it was over but he made a solid comeback. Doug was up around $117k on 10th round and it was a 4+ hours session so I dont think that its bad because this is literally twice as much as they usually play for.

So here it is incase you guys want to watch how the game goes. Daniel tweeted that round 11 and 12 might be happening this week as well . Around 7800 hands left to go before we reach 12,500.

Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 8

Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 9

Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 10

doug pulled away a little bit in the last session, up ~$150k now. still close enough that daniel could easily turn it around, but his odds keep getting longer---edging towards 7:1 now.

this sounds fun:
https://twitter.com/TexDolly/status/1330971910243459072
https://twitter.com/DougPolkVids/status/1331282568285618179

with any luck, we'll see a heads up challenge in a couple months between doyle brunson and doug polk. live sounds much better than this online/no hole card format.

Well some people obviously love to hype this HU match by tweeting some random drama, Im quite sure that there will be alot more incoming to hype this up


Here you go , Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 7


Well according to Doug's tweet, he is up $67k after 2374 hands so that could be one the reason why the odds for Dneg is getting higher. Not to mention that Doug was clearly better than Dneg in this game but somehow Dneg is keeping up with Doug. The reason for Dneg's comeback was because he got lucky few times that Doug were super aggresive by shoving but Dneg won by having better hands . Most of the time Dneg would fold when Doug shove, its too bad that we wont know if Doug was bluffing or not

what a bunch of drama over nothing. it's water under the bridge now, from the look of it:



onto the next session then.


oddly enough, DN's odds keep getting longer---up to 6.35 now on pokershares.

That's actually Doug and his joking/trolly nature, as far as I can tell. It was just all good that Bill had stated Doug was using solvers, but corrected himself.

From the sounds of it they are still going to their judge/arbitrator who someone said might be Phil Galfond, I don't know this for sure but might be why perkins tagged him.

From the latest tweet, it seems it all gets sorted out and it was some kind of misunderstanding. It seems some people are just trying to hype this HU match by firing off some tweets like that as its getting really dull. They played for 4 hours on Round 6 but there was not much action yesterday. People are expecting bloodbath, either Dneg or Doug gets crushed but none really expect an pretty much even game until 2700+ hands

To be honest I dont see this HU match gets cancelled after this kind of silly things. Alot of people are benefitting from this HU match, lots of stream and commentary video about this.

AAaaaaand we've hit the first issue.

I'm kinda confused as to how this is an issue but I guess team Daniel has an issue with Doug looking back at the client hand history as part of his off session study to count things like C-bets, folds to C-bets and BTN play.

A bit annoying as this was getting interesting checking in to see how things change from session to session. I've only read tweets from Doug and Bill Perkins, so I don't know to much else. Hoping this gets sorted out sooner rather than latter.

Am I missing something here?

Basically this HU match is a gold mine for those poker streamers/ youtubers so many of them would try to stream it. They can say anything about it and no one would really care because the hole card is not shown and no one know what exactly is going on unless it goes to hands showdown


Ended with Dneg +$147k this session

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Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 5

This ended with Dneg hitting positive overall +20k

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Here is the next scheduled game

Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 6

These all are streamed by ggpoker youtube channel. Doug Polk also stream this on his personal youtube channel if you guys prefer but personally I like Kevin Martin so I always stick with ggpoker's stream

I do like catching the highlights of who's in the lead where. I think I caught the 4th session, I watched Brad Owen and Andrew Neeme, sort of not commentate on it lol. They just sat around drinking and shooting the shit with it on in the background. The biggest pots I noticed were spots where Doug had 2 pair or something and Daniel rivered his straight, got all the money twice I think.

I've noticed a few more people reviewing the gameplay so I might try out a few of those for fun.

Glad it's not a steady blowout, keeps it interesting from a session to session point of view.

That'll be good. Weird time for him to have taken a break but it sounds like he needed to sort out his life a bit and find some balance. Looking forward to his energy, and admitted ignorance to the finer points of HUNL hold'em. I watched him do his commentary on the Sunday Million an amateur won earlier this year and he was a blast.

He's sponsored by GGPoker but I don't think they have any action on him for this challenge.  But I'm pretty sure guys like Helmuth, Matusow and even Ivey could be backing him.

I think Joey Ingram is gonna start streaming this week with commentary.  Should be good. 

......and now DN is in the lead, up $26k after the 5th session. keeping it close!

and that's with DN running way below expected value in all-in situations too: https://twitter.com/Moonlightmaste1/status/1327979277682434050

still not too much movement in the odds, but he is now below 6 on pokershares: https://www.pokershares.com/market/poker/0ecafede-85cc-48fc-b12c-81698b314efc

i still want that 5:1 bet if someone wants some action on this.

Its totally weird yeah


He is probably sponsored by ggpoker. Aside from Doug that does livestream from his personal youtube channel, ggpoker is the other one that feature this match. The ggpoker livestream include Dneg's postmatch live interview so yeah I dont see Dneg doing this unless he is paid big time by ggpoker. Imagine having to do postmatch interview after 2 hours of playing session and you lose over 100k from the game

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Some good news for yall, Dneg's fanboy  . Dneg was +90k in the 4th round. Dneg was leading with +180k but he gets too confident and tried to bluff few times by shoving. Doug does some good hero calls and managed to close the gap

^ I don't think Dnegs would quit.  He's got people backing him.  If he's down by a manageable clip by the 12500th hand, I feel like stakes are going up...  Which should be fun for the fans. 

Yeah that or quit.

I've tried to watch a bit of the streams without the hole cards and it's just to dull. I have caught some highlight reals and man there were some rough coolers for Dnegs. I'm hoping in a week or so someone will put together a real solid reel of the big spots for both of them.

Yes, around 268k after 1006 hands. They are commited to play for atleast 2 hours a day and 4 days a week minimum. Thats not normal if you watch the entire game, Doug is really trashing Dneg around. Basically they played 806 hands online and Dneg lose 268k already ( actually around 370k if you count the 110k profit that Dneg got from the live session )


Yes

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The next session is already live in youtube, Click Here Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 4

It has been running for 30 minutes and Doug is currently +45k this session

I haven't been watching this more closely than I should...  I hear Doug Polk is up 7 buyins in 1000 hands or so.  That's pretty normal in HU matches and there's still a long way to go.

I also heard that at around the 12500th hand, the losing player has the option to request to double up the stakes.  Gamboool.  Lol.

Yes no hole cards shown at all. From what I've seen in their last online session is when one of the stack gets big enough after few nice play ( In this case Doug ), its getting easier for him to harass Dneg starting from the flop by raising high most of the time preventing Dneg from getting another cards. I thought there will be something like max stack in this game

From those livestream, I gotta admit that Doug is a really good player in heads up online but not that good in live game. This could turn really ugly for Dneg, he probably will lose over 1 million if he keeps on doing that river bluff by shoving in. They probably will play on Monday/Tuesday, I'll edit this post and put in the link so you guys can watch this as well

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Edit : Another online session in around 100 minutes

Watch it Dneg vs Doug High Stakes Feud Round 3

that would have been ideal. more competitive, and frankly live is just more entertaining, especially since these aren't super nosebleed stakes......$500/$1k like at full tilt back in the day would have been fun.


thanks, yeah i'm a couple days behind and wanted to make it a point to watch the live session. with these announcers and no hole cards, i'm more just interested in the highlight reel and the results of the online sessions.

It seems both of you guys totally missed the next session. They both have played another 2 hour online session and Dneg is currently losing around 275k. He was up 117k from the live session but taking a huge beat on the online session. Dneg was caught bluffing by shoving in few times but Doug was making few hero call with just one middle pair

You guys can watch it Here or Here

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Yeah they sound like an old friend playing some friendly poker after long time of not seeing each other. Doug is really looks like an online troll, he trashtalk in online but sounds nice when he meet Dneg

It legitimately seemed like old friends, even bordering coaching at some points lol. I first watched the first hour or so, adn was like okay Doug blasted some off early - called it a miss read board later on - but was like okay he's climbing back. Then someone told me he finished the night down 117K I was like wtf happened lol. So I'm slowly trying to finish watching it just to see the spots, and now I have the first online session to watch, cheated and caught a bit of that.
Definitely not as interesting, I find the announcers voices a bit dry.
Not surprised that online went better for Doug than Daniel. I also figured Daniel might have been at a slight advantage live, if he was able to pick up on any Doug reads. I kind of whish they had gone to a 50/50 format for live and online - even switching back and forth ever 3 sessions or so.

I want to see how the next few sessions go, but if it's a lot of the same I wonder if Dan will opt out after 12.5K hands.

i finally had a chance to sit down and watch the stream today. after all the buildup, it was a much friendlier affair than i expected---so friendly in fact that pokershares is now offering odds on whether DN will be best man at doug polk's wedding, lol: https://www.pokershares.com/market/poker/8f22c541-59f7-4142-9be2-72f0265e8500

odds are at 41.

very solid play (and also a few spots of rungood) by DN---up $117k after 200 hands. it barely makes a dent in the total hand count but, nice showing anyway. it didn't affect the odds for the overall grudge match though. DN is still being priced above 6.

This is going to be very interesting. If Doug start trash talking right from the start and Dneg is tilted from the first 200 hands, things will get totally insane in the online game but Dneg probably dominate the live game eh. I wonder how much did PokerGO pay both of them to play it live in their studio. It must been a lot of money to get them both together playing exclusively for their content

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Here is the link in case someone wonders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsDj1viQ4E4&ab_channel=PokerGO

85 minutes from now, See you guys on the stream  

Just over 2 hours and this thing really kicks off. I might be mistaken but it almost seems like these 200 hands are going to be played in person. That's going to be interesting as I'm sure there'll be some jabs tossed around if not during then for sure as they break.

Here is the event description from Pokergo

Yeah, Doug's pride is the one at stake here and Dneg has tons of reason to brush it off in case if he lose the game. Basically he is playing in Doug's field of expertise so he is pretty much handicapped in this game

I find both of their latest tweet to be interesting . Basically Doug is signalling that he is going to win this one and Dneg signalling that he is quite bad ( or he could bluffing because he is good with these mind games )


I doubt Doug is going to keep silent while the game goes. There is no rules that he cant stream it during the game isnt it? If he has some good run over Dneg in around 3k hands or so , he probably will boast about it and stream it. We'll just have to wait and check his tweet

I'm pretty certain someone is going to lose 300K just from the hands alone by the time it's done. Especially if it runs the full 25K hands. I don't think either would really bat an eye at that number, now the sidebets each have made is where they can really start piling on the losses. Doug for instance has a 2 Million bet on himself, to win 500K from Bill Perkins.

Bill has also given Daniel action on the same vein at something like a 10:1, I don't know to take Perkins at his word it's legit but it sounded as if it was a motivational bet. Who knows.

Just by his demeanor and actions I think if Doug loses it will be his pride that takes the hit, and I think that will bother him more than losing the cash. I think Dan will try and brush it off and go with what a lot of people called from the beginning "I wasn't expected to win" " This was just to put an end to it, and make it fun for the fans". Again it will be an ego pride thing, that he'll try and hide. The money again would just be a feather in the cap, as he's not hurting for cash.
Yeah I wish I had thought of it sooner, but figured if they really wanted to catch a few bets, similar to what they did with the US election, they could toss something together rather quickly.

That's all that is going to be free, through Pokergo. I still don't really know what the final viewing options will be but I still think we will be able to see Dougs side of things via, via his or the upswing streaming channels. I think twitch but could be youtube. Luckily I have a day off on the 4th so I'll be trying to  figure out the what and the where.

Edit: Read somewhere that the 200 hands on Pokergo, will display hole cards for both players.

what's it been, 6+ years of shit talking between these 2? i should hope there's a lot of pride at stake. i sure hope one of them gets destroyed---just for the lolz.


let me know. they geo-block americans but supposedly:


.....so i suppose i could risk a small amount.


is that all we get, 200 hands?

Its not going to looks good for whoever loses in this game . Lots of money and pride is on stake here. Someone probably going to lose up to 300k in this game and thats is definitely going to haunt them in their nightmare


They probably wont have time to set it up and not to mention that the transaction fee is quite high recently, Im out of funds in Betnomi and I probably wont sent any btc to anywhere in couple days lol


Only 200 out of 12,500 hands. Dang it would be nice to see the whole game even without the hole card being shown. It is pointless if there isnt any huge action in the first 200 hands though

If you find someone offering you that trade I would take a piece too. Team Daniel all they way.

I wish they would fix the laws in America so we can have all the poker players on the same platforms and people from the states wouldn't have to move to Canada or another country.

I'd be down for watching some joey over excitement commentary while watching. It's nice to know there will be some options, I'm sure Kane will give a good explanation style commentary on certain spots.

I've been trying to find some more opinion pieces. So far I've mostly just seen guys liking the odds. Here is a Hellmuth tweet which I believe Doug took up on the offer
"I think @DougPolkVids is an amazing heads up player! Especially in no limit holdem, esp online, esp over 25,000 hands. But, I’m hearing Doug is 4-to-1 favorite over @RealKidPoker. This seems high, and I’ll bet on Daniel at 4-to-1. Reach out to me if your credible"

Matusow, I don't know what to say here is his announcement of betting half his bankroll, not to mention a 5K bet on trump winning the election - that was back in March to be fair. - my favorite is Dan's tweet back "Yikes" Michael Scott "Office" Gif

I think it was Dougs twitter where he put it best.  "The bottom line is, you arent really betting on me/my ability. I will be a very good hunl player, not world class anymore, but very solid.

You are betting on how good you think Dnegs can be at an extremely challenging and complicated game."

Someone walks away with a pile of money, and the other hopes they don't rub their nose in it. Nothing else apart from that, there will likely be some videos or comments made, but I expect the end t obe fairly civil surprisingly.
Just not his game, the tweet I quoted by Doug sums it up nicely.

I messaged Betnomi mentioning they should try and capitalize and offer odds. If they go for it I'll post. Apart from that, I did set up a pokershares account, I opted not to fund it yet because BTC was moving and I didn't really want to put any into Fiat 

I'm off for the next couple days, maybe we find some options.

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Side note just announce is the first 200 hands will be live and will streamed on Pokergo free.

punters on pokershares have been consistently pricing him above 5, usually closer to 6. https://www.pokershares.com/market/poker/c0baedd8-236b-4bd5-884d-ee1926743070

i dunno any other site offering odds, and they don't allow us muricans on pokershares.

i still want 5 to 1 on DN myself, if someone will take the other side of the bet....

Yep he is missing in action. He stream on his youtube channel sometimes but there hasnt been any stream lately or any new footage of him playing poker yet after all these stuff


Probably playing some mind trick by tweeting that. He should have just keep quiet about all these thing before the game

So what will actually happen if by any chance one of them lose horribly , like losing alot of money? It doesnt mean either of them are better than the other, its just some heads up game with some ego and lot of hype in it. Im new in these poker scene like this so Im pretty much clueless


5 for Dneg? Dang people must be taking Dneg lightly

^  Joey Ingram will prolly stream it straight from his YT channel.

Anyway...  Old school live pros are backing Dnegs.  I heard Helmuth is looking for action for 20k for something like 5 to 1.  Matusow is betting 10k.

So October has been interesting. I was to slow/lazy to get myself a bet in on Dnegs through Pokershares lol. What can I say I love to hedge a bet, but it was fun looking through all the other offered bets. I was tempted to send over some coin regardless and bet on some of the side action but opted out. My favorite was "Where will Dougs teeth be at the end"

Sounds like for most of it we should be able to watch via Upswing or Dougs Twitch channels - They had an article on upswing that covered whatever details they had set in stone, and mentioned this. I doubt Doug will go full hole cards for it but a guy can hope.

I still haven't seen anything in regards to Dnegs play or training. Doug has been all over the place, winning big in some spots and then losing it in others. His latest tweet was him playing HS against Ali Imsirovic and losing all his profit... and then some I'm guessing 270K.

Definitely not the ego boost you'd want shortly before heading into the match.

https://upswingpoker.com/doug-polk-vs-daniel-negreanu-grudge-match-rules/

nice, that'll make it much more watchable.


they're both trying to play head games and put on facades etc. we'll see what happens. like i said, at the odds given i definitely like DN but i'm expecting doug to win. i love a good underdog though!


gimme 5 to 1 in favor of DN and you got yourself a bet.

Any other information on where will this be streamed at? To be honest, Dneg is somewhat sloppy when it comes to online game. Doug on the other hand is a good player when it comes to online 1v1 heads up. I've checked his video on youtube few days ago and I have seen that he is doing great on that , making lots of cash on his game

If Dneg ended up winning this, it will be total upset for Doug

Well that turned into a shitshow for a few days, and probably right up until the match gets underway. I am happiest about the fact that somehow a concession about holecards came about and will be visible for at least part of the match.

Surprising though is I think Doug is legitimately fired up to play now. He talked before about feeling anxious when the time was coming to play, and that was part of his leaving the game. I don't see any of that in his current, come and get me approach. I even noticed him kind of accepting and calling for additional matches, some obvious putdowns and/or trolls but maybe he dips his toes in and gets a taste for these heads up matches.

That would depend on a lot of things.  But I think given enough time, Doug could work his way back up again.

Anyway, on the issue of pf charts and cheat sheets..  This is ultimately how it should be.  IMHO:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ummuPtxLI

Some people think it's a bad take tho.

Yeah Doug has a completely different way of analysing the game than Dnegs. Apparently he has been grinding lower stakes tables for month now is sharpening his game. But he will not be on the top I think as a few years ago. Poker is evolving so fast these days and more and more young kids are coming up crushing the pros. Where as Doug has an edge over Dnegs, younger players have an edge over Doug. I watched  the Heads Up session of Doug vs Landon Tice, he lost like $500 or so until he gave up.

^  Lol.  I mean yeah...  It's just better that way imho.  They're both elite pros and not a couple of microstakes noobs who need a cheat sheet.

I'm actually surprised why Doug just wouldn't let it go since he has a huge edge over Dnegs.

Edit:  And like Dnegs said..  'your best game, your format, your approved platform.'.  And Doug can't agree not to use his pf chart?

And I'm pretty sure it's not just a chart, it's a spreadsheet that auto computes ranges vs opponents' range and raise sizes.

I'll consider it a victory when compared against all my other marginal gambles. This way
I've time travelled to mid-September for better odds. Really just what I get for being lazy and not jumping on a bet early on.
Sorry this was pretty much my cap for this bet; I might look around and drop a small bet on Daniel now though.

Weird enough Doug's response somewhere in there stated he's like to use Preflop charts, but nothing postflop. Not going to lie found it surprising, but what do I know.
Sounds good. Yeah the ideal would be the 2 of them separated by Plexiglass across the table from each other. I'll take what I can get but I found this exchange to be weird and unexpected. I did notice Max Silver offering them 100BB Shove charts lol.

Bahaha, so I was reviewing their twitter feeds as it's now my morning laugh, and thought I'd be showing something new here and I stumble upon your tweet back to Doug lol. BEat me to it. I don't know what happened and how Daniel went from I'm okay with charts to calling them out as RTA, and saying they ruin the game.

Just seems funny to me that preflop charts are now such a big discussion. I know when I play I tend to have some open on the laptop, because I like to look back after I make my decision to see if I'm making the "right" plays.

Cool!  Lezz go! 

We just do USD value in BTC of whatever the price of BTC is at.  So if BTC is at 12k or so we just do amount of bet/BTC price. 

I think the most fair way of going about the match is just make it as close to a live HU match as possible.  No HUD, RTA, spreadsheets and charts.  Just the players and their wits.

i think doug will win too.... but at those odds? i'm taking negreanu all day. lemme know if you feel like taking another little bet.


he's 100% fucking with doug's head IMO.

I'll bite. Just to keep it fair I also promise not to give Doug any coaching. I also don't think it's going to be a walk in the park, but I still think Doug will pull it off in the end.

On a side note I've been trying to dig a bit and see what I can find on either of their training/practice schedules and I'm there isn't much.

I think Daniel is actually trying to goad Polk into a twitter spat or something. Could be some mental gameplay but he's tweeting

A little concerning but more likely a red herring. He's only now looking to set up some 2$/4$ HU tables for practice. My only guess is that it would make sense if he's been doing more theoretical/coaching behind the scenes and now wants to put it to practice.

I didn't even really think about it but there is also no HUDS, during the match.

Edit: Bet wise I am confirming USD, and BTC as the payment method for squaring up. Do we do BTC value as of today or the day the match winner is determined?

I fear for Doug.  I don't think Dnegs is gonna be easy pickin's for him.  Dnegs is prolly doing some practice of his own...  Pokershares has the match at 1.14 for Doug and 6.15 for Dnegs tho.

Anybody wanna bet against me for fun?  I'll take Dnegs at a discounted 5.  Just 10 bucks for your 50.  Open to anybody trusted or with a decent sig campaign.

I really wanted to make a bet at Pokershares but I have to go thru KYC no matter what..  Not willing to go thru all the hassle just for a 10 USD bet.  Lol.

From the few articles I've checked, it sounds like Webcam on delay with the commentary coming through on twitch. So I'm guessing table footage, with Doug and Daniel able to talk in real-time. Hoping so anyway. Typing this I realized that either or could also fire up their streams if they decide they don't want to talk realtime.

One article that wasn't essentially a clone, did point out they are playing on WSOP.com

Yeah his first few matches were pretty rough. I didn't watch many of them but I did wonder how many of them made plays for the sake of making a play on Doug. Not long after I updated this thread I found a story in my "news" feed, Polk and Phil Naggy had a 1.5 hour session. 10/20 and Polk came out ahead 7K. Phil made it sound like Doug is back in fighting form.

Polk controlled the tempo of the game, making pots happen as he wanted, when he wanted.

$ - It's a straight up cash game
For sure, and at this level picking up on tendencies and making adjustments is an essential part of the game. I'm ho9ping when it's all said and done that there will be a release with all hole cards shown.

Agreed. I almost think it was more of a jab, maybe an attempt to antagonize Daniel again.
The way I've been playing I might be the one who needs the assistance. 

Yeah Polk made his name playing this format. He has a ton of youtube content teaching and analyzing poker strategy. He is definitely one of the reasons I took an interest in improving my game.

Is this $200/$400 or 200/400 chips?


We tend to repeat the same pattern with the same hand so its understandable if they will play 25,000 hands


I had to google the keyword of " RTA in poker" for this lol. I totally have no idea what it means until I saw from youtube. Seems like a great tool, you know where I could get one for our game this weekend?  ( Ignore my silly jokes lol)

Daniel wouldnt put his whole reputation just to use RTA for this game


I have no clue about this guy but I would love to watch anything with Daniel on it. I learnt alot from him

i saw him getting crushed at the low stakes tables a few weeks ago. i wasn't sure if it was mainly cuz he's out of practice or because nobody respects raises at 1/2 or whatever stakes they were.

is there gonna be any live streaming of DN and polk, or is it just gonna be Kane Kalas providing commentary watching online tables? i'd love to see them talking shit in real time.


lol.

So the event has firmed up some what.

Start date of Nov, 1
25,000 hands         Option to quit after 12,500   -  Option to raise stakes after 12,500 if both players agree
200/400     -    100BB stacks with an automatic top-up

No firm info on sidebet, or the site they will be playing on as of yet. Stream commentary will be done by Kane Kalas. The schedule should be interesting, minimum 2 hour session - with Polk looking for 4-5 hours a day, and Daniel saying something like playing 4-5 days a week until done.

Understandable but a little disappointing from a viewer/fan perspective was that Daniel said he won't be showing hold cards on delay. I completely understand that he doesn't want to get looked up and researched throughout the duration of the challenge. Funnily enough Polk has no trust in Daniel, and has an inspection request clause to ensure no RTA is being used.


Should be a good one, I watched what little Polk put out in August as he had open challenges out to get some practice in. Nothing spectacular and you could tell he knew he had to put some work in. Which I think he's happy with his progress the last month and a half, as he started pushing for a start date again.

I hadn't heard of them until I saw their Sig campaign actually.

Yeah I noticed afterwards, not sure what happened. Left it in, seems to be working lol.

I think it would be cool if a lot of these big names just threw down in some heads up matches.Maybe make it a series event or something.

FYI the thread isn't self moderated.

Definitely looking forward to see if Polk can back up all of his talk against the likes of the beast that is Negreanu.

I'd be more interested in seeing him up against Phil Ivey though, or even Tom Dwan. I have a feeling Polk would get trounced by all three heads up.

Doesn't look like the event is set in stone yet, there's still some back and forth between the two on Twitter:

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/25183-retired-poker-pro-doug-polk-challenges-daniel-negreanu-to-heads-up-grudge-match

^  Nope...  I think it looks legit tho.  And a cool concept.  But read their ToS on withdrawals and rollovers. It should have a 1x rollover as it is mostly standard for most books.  Not a lot of people in these parts get that.

dang, missed our shot at even odds. i had no idea where to look for action on this. the odds on polk are up to 1.42. https://www.pokershares.com/market/poker/6ee2a4d8-df3a-4c0b-bee2-1b14b727751f

have you guys used pokershares before? trustworthy?

Yeah not sure the strategy here in just going straight HUNL. At first I assumed he just let his anger get the better of him, much like his twitch rant that got him banned. Then there was the thought - He can always say "Of course I lost it's his specialty". He's already tossing out the I'm giving the fans what they want.

Hard to say what the logic was.

Pokershares didn't miss a beat... I did though. I caught a blog post here. That site also grabbed most of the relevant twitter posts.

https://www.pokernews.com/news/2020/07/the-muck-daniel-negreanu-doug-polk-grudge-match-37703.htm

Side note found out Doug bought his BTC in 2013... not to shabby. I thought it was closer to 2015/16 based on a post from his supposed account on forum. Not very active.

Lol.  Yup finally..  these two battling it out after 4 years of going back and forth at each other.

And I doubt Dnegs has an edge at short deck.  Doug prolly could adjust better than Dnegs can.  PLO maybe...  I think Stud or Triple Draw is where he has a huge edge.

Edit:  Pokershares should lay action imo.  Drop a line in their thread.  

And I got Doug too.  And it's hilarious how Joe Ingram is even trying to make it look like it's an even match on the Twitterz. 

From what I could tell it sounds like mid September to early August. It was a hard follow but I imagine they will firm it up in the next week.
Couldn't agree more. Although I'm not sure what other game Daniel could pick to give himself an edge, maybe something to level it a bit more. Maybe PLO or short deck holdem.
I don't recall him ever playing much PLO but I remember a video where Doug discussed wanting to learn it more, but eventually gave it up. Short deck is fairly new in popularity so I don't imagine Doug played to much if any.

daniel should have taken him up on his offer to play half NLHE and half a game of his choice. all online, all high stakes NLHE? my money is on polk.

when is this happening? i can barely follow all the back and forth on twitter.

I can't say I've ever really been to invested in "Celebrity Personalities" Sports/Entertainment.. never really cared. This though I have to admit has peaked my interest huge.

So 2 all-time greats are going to throw down out of, I guess what you can call Hate and Spite... I'm pretty sure that covers all feelings they have for each other... maybe disdain. If you need background on them just punch their names into google and there is 4 years of back and forth jabs. Some are hilarious.

What really kicked this off was Doug Polk putting out a solid and eviscerating dis-edit video on Youtube - It's now taken down no surprise. In  response to a minor petty shot Daniel Negreanu took at him on twitter. So much of this over the years truly. Then Joe Ingram got into it on his podcast a bit and decided to prod a bit and try and get these two to settle it finally - He's getting tired of covering them lol through Twitter.

Then you have it today. A bunch of back and forth and what looks to be some terms firming up nicely. In Polks favor I might add

200$/400$ Heads up No limit Hold'em

2 Tables online

Side bet of 100K-300K

These terms are just what I grabbed from their twitter a bit to get the scope of the back and forth. It could change.

I do think Polk antagonized Daniel to playing HUNL, as that is what Polk is known for. If I'm not mistaken he's considered the GOAT of that format. Turning a comment Daniel made about being the MJ of poker into a jab about him not being willing to play HUNL.

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HUNL - Heads Up No-Limit