It's happening: Puerto Rico just defaulted for the first time

EternalWingsofGod

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Quote from: neurotypical on August 03, 2015, 06:53:34 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/investing/puerto-rico-default/

Damn, I can't believe this is happening so close, it's unbeliable but it was unavoidable. 58 million of unplayable fee. I really hope these guys don't get all of their money stolen. Only if we were in 2025 they could have had a chance with Bitcoin we are still on the very early days.

I opened a thread amongst all the Greek havok about this default incoming
It was set to happen and given that most of the debt is American that was bound to happen.
Death spirals are really tough.

Puerto Rico is not Rico anymore
Rico means Rich

Now its Just Puerto ....

greBit

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Quote from: pereira4 on August 05, 2015, 02:30:46 PM

Quote from: tommorisonwebdesign on August 05, 2015, 02:02:51 PM

Quote from: Miracal on August 04, 2015, 05:07:05 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

Despite how unrealistic it seems for a country to really adopt bitcoin, if it happens then it would be really mind blowing. All the people who have owned a bitcoin will be instantly rich, richer than what they were for sure. I am sometimes surprised how the world is so slow to adopt crypto, as a kid I always imagined that digital money could conquer the world.

People don't understand the value of Bitcoin because the price moves around so much. I suspect as more people adopt, states will begin to use it as their official currency.

It's not only because of the volatility, they just don't understand the technology, the context of the technology an what does it mean to world economy, the possibilities... if they did, they would understand the volatility in the first place and they would be buying like crazy as we speak, but naturally the pioneers are a reduced group and that's us.

Very well said. Lots of people fail to see the technology behind bitcoin and why it is important, what effect it has on the world and its economy. The day people really understand what bitcoin is and have more confidence in themselves and see more than just their personal gains, bitcoin would be widely adopted by now. I think a lot of people will adopt bitcoin, if shifting to bitcoin was much easier. Very less services support bitcoin and the reason they don't, is because its not heavily adopted. Its a vicious cycle which we need to break through.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Quote from: Hazir on August 05, 2015, 03:14:27 PM

Quote from: neurotypical on August 03, 2015, 06:53:34 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/investing/puerto-rico-default/

Damn, I can't believe this is happening so close, it's unbeliable but it was unavoidable. 58 million of unplayable fee. I really hope these guys don't get all of their money stolen. Only if we were in 2025 they could have had a chance with Bitcoin we are still on the very early days.

And you know what is quite funny? The World's Largest Debtor Governments leader is US with debt of 18,540,448,667,000. Second place is UK with 9,590,995,000,000.
We truly entered age of debt. Puerto Rico's debt is like one grain of sand on a desert compared to US debt. Does this means US will be defaulted in the future to?
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

The US is the motherhouse that can get away with printing as much money as they want and live under as much debt as they want and they seem to keep await with it, thats why i have my doubts it will ever default.

HarHarHar9965

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Quote from: Hazir on August 05, 2015, 03:14:27 PM

Quote from: neurotypical on August 03, 2015, 06:53:34 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/investing/puerto-rico-default/

Damn, I can't believe this is happening so close, it's unbeliable but it was unavoidable. 58 million of unplayable fee. I really hope these guys don't get all of their money stolen. Only if we were in 2025 they could have had a chance with Bitcoin we are still on the very early days.

And you know what is quite funny? The World's Largest Debtor Governments leader is US with debt of 18,540,448,667,000. Second place is UK with 9,590,995,000,000.
We truly entered age of debt. Puerto Rico's debt is like one grain of sand on a desert compared to US debt. Does this means US will be defaulted in the future to?
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

As long as U.S has the power of being the most strongest currency in the world, which it clearly does, nobody can do anything to them. Dollar is important solely because it is petrodollar. Petrol can only be bought with dollar, which is the very reason it makes it global. There are several other commodities which can be bought by dollar only, the more dollar is exercised and traded, the stronger it remains.

Falconer

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Quote from: eerygarden on August 05, 2015, 01:56:52 PM

Quote from: Falconer on August 05, 2015, 12:50:28 PM

I was really curious why Puerto Rico defaulted, then I got this nice article from CNN http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/news/economy/puerto-rico-default-looms/
Its saying its be happened because of an inefficient energy policy by the government.

I know very little but my guess is that this happened because of maths. Maths is always to blame. Shall we abolish maths? Grin

Well afaik math is very useful. Without it, all countries will get crisis, right?

Quote from: Hazir on August 05, 2015, 03:14:27 PM

And you know what is quite funny? The World's Largest Debtor Governments leader is US with debt of 18,540,448,667,000. Second place is UK with 9,590,995,000,000.
We truly entered age of debt. Puerto Rico's debt is like one grain of sand on a desert compared to US debt. Does this means US will be defaulted in the future to?
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Seems US external debt in per capita still lower than UK, Germany, Netherlands, even Luxembourg.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2012/10/19/no-the-united-states-will-not-go-into-a-debt-crisis-not-now-not-ever/

Hazir

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★Nitrogensports.eu★

Quote from: neurotypical on August 03, 2015, 06:53:34 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/investing/puerto-rico-default/

Damn, I can't believe this is happening so close, it's unbeliable but it was unavoidable. 58 million of unplayable fee. I really hope these guys don't get all of their money stolen. Only if we were in 2025 they could have had a chance with Bitcoin we are still on the very early days.

And you know what is quite funny? The World's Largest Debtor Governments leader is US with debt of 18,540,448,667,000. Second place is UK with 9,590,995,000,000.
We truly entered age of debt. Puerto Rico's debt is like one grain of sand on a desert compared to US debt. Does this means US will be defaulted in the future to?
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

pereira4

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Quote from: tommorisonwebdesign on August 05, 2015, 02:02:51 PM

Quote from: Miracal on August 04, 2015, 05:07:05 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

Despite how unrealistic it seems for a country to really adopt bitcoin, if it happens then it would be really mind blowing. All the people who have owned a bitcoin will be instantly rich, richer than what they were for sure. I am sometimes surprised how the world is so slow to adopt crypto, as a kid I always imagined that digital money could conquer the world.

People don't understand the value of Bitcoin because the price moves around so much. I suspect as more people adopt, states will begin to use it as their official currency.

It's not only because of the volatility, they just don't understand the technology, the context of the technology an what does it mean to world economy, the possibilities... if they did, they would understand the volatility in the first place and they would be buying like crazy as we speak, but naturally the pioneers are a reduced group and that's us.

tommorisonwebdesign

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Quote from: Miracal on August 04, 2015, 05:07:05 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

Despite how unrealistic it seems for a country to really adopt bitcoin, if it happens then it would be really mind blowing. All the people who have owned a bitcoin will be instantly rich, richer than what they were for sure. I am sometimes surprised how the world is so slow to adopt crypto, as a kid I always imagined that digital money could conquer the world.

People don't understand the value of Bitcoin because the price moves around so much. I suspect as more people adopt, states will begin to use it as their official currency.

eerygarden

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Activity: 406

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Quote from: Falconer on August 05, 2015, 12:50:28 PM

I was really curious why Puerto Rico defaulted, then I got this nice article from CNN http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/news/economy/puerto-rico-default-looms/
Its saying its be happened because of an inefficient energy policy by the government.

I know very little but my guess is that this happened because of maths. Maths is always to blame. Shall we abolish maths? Grin

Falconer

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I was really curious why Puerto Rico defaulted, then I got this nice article from CNN http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/29/news/economy/puerto-rico-default-looms/
Its saying its be happened because of an inefficient energy policy by the government.

manselr

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Let's not forget Puerto Rico is not some third world nation.
Its US soil! A US Territory. Not some "Free Associated State" as the current Governor and his despotic Populist Democrat Party has claimed for 63 years!
That said,they are Americans. They are US citizens since 1917, so it's understandable they'll not work for nothing less than American wages.

eerygarden

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Quote from: manselr on August 04, 2015, 12:27:43 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on August 04, 2015, 11:56:03 AM

Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on August 04, 2015, 10:07:18 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

There is not a single country that is ready for BTC and BTC is not ready for any country, the volume would most likely collapse the network. We need to fix the blocksize etc issues before we can think about that.

The blocksize debate is not currently an issue. It will only become an issue when adoption surges and the devs will probably approach it in a reactionary manner. The good news is that the moment is being anticipated and hopefully a solution will be applied that can be compared to mild turbulence.

True, but you can never predict when the Bitcoin network will have tons of people flocking in desperately if their economies go bankrupt. You cant never know when it can go viral and lots of new users can appear out of nowhere, so we might as well get ready as soon as possible to support that.

That is not something that I, running an SPV, will have any say in. In geeks I trust.

manselr

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Quote from: eerygarden on August 04, 2015, 11:56:03 AM

Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on August 04, 2015, 10:07:18 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

There is not a single country that is ready for BTC and BTC is not ready for any country, the volume would most likely collapse the network. We need to fix the blocksize etc issues before we can think about that.

The blocksize debate is not currently an issue. It will only become an issue when adoption surges and the devs will probably approach it in a reactionary manner. The good news is that the moment is being anticipated and hopefully a solution will be applied that can be compared to mild turbulence.

True, but you can never predict when the Bitcoin network will have tons of people flocking in desperately if their economies go bankrupt. You cant never know when it can go viral and lots of new users can appear out of nowhere, so we might as well get ready as soon as possible to support that.

eerygarden

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Activity: 406

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on August 04, 2015, 10:07:18 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

There is not a single country that is ready for BTC and BTC is not ready for any country, the volume would most likely collapse the network. We need to fix the blocksize etc issues before we can think about that.

The blocksize debate is not currently an issue. It will only become an issue when adoption surges and the devs will probably approach it in a reactionary manner. The good news is that the moment is being anticipated and hopefully a solution will be applied that can be compared to mild turbulence.

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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Activity: 770

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Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

There is not a single country that is ready for BTC and BTC is not ready for any country, the volume would most likely collapse the network. We need to fix the blocksize etc issues before we can think about that.

HarHarHar9965

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Activity: 994

Merit: 1000

Quote from: NorrisK on August 04, 2015, 05:16:52 AM

Quote from: Miracal on August 04, 2015, 05:07:05 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

Despite how unrealistic it seems for a country to really adopt bitcoin, if it happens then it would be really mind blowing. All the people who have owned a bitcoin will be instantly rich, richer than what they were for sure. I am sometimes surprised how the world is so slow to adopt crypto, as a kid I always imagined that digital money could conquer the world.

Depends on how many satoshis are required to get by to do the daily stuff.. I don't think it will rise as much as you would think. Ofcourse the people who were in to it before that would be way better of than those that buried their heads into the sand.

If Greece adopted bitcoin as their currency, 1 bitcoin's price would multiply 55 times than what it was making every bitcoin user with even half a satoshi a fucking millionaire, but ofcourse there were limits to it. Greece did not had the required infrastructure, the wealth to buy that kind of bitcoins and they were also really busy kissing the eurozone's butt. Oops.

King Karma

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Quote from: neurotypical on August 03, 2015, 06:53:34 PM

http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/investing/puerto-rico-default/

Damn, I can't believe this is happening so close, it's unbeliable but it was unavoidable. 58 million of unplayable fee. I really hope these guys don't get all of their money stolen. Only if we were in 2025 they could have had a chance with Bitcoin we are still on the very early days.

What's unbelievable about it? These kind of debt systems are bound to fail because they're meant to be unpayable, but once they realize they can't keep up the repayments thats when the shit hits the fan but is good for whoever loaned them the money in the first place as they'll just start taking other assets and property.

gablay12

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Would a country adopt a currency which emmission and other controls are not possessed by the adopter.

BTC will have a long life but it will never be like USD,AUSD,EURO or Pound.

blxlihnk

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it's a question of generation too... political leaders are old people

NorrisK

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Quote from: Miracal on August 04, 2015, 05:07:05 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

Despite how unrealistic it seems for a country to really adopt bitcoin, if it happens then it would be really mind blowing. All the people who have owned a bitcoin will be instantly rich, richer than what they were for sure. I am sometimes surprised how the world is so slow to adopt crypto, as a kid I always imagined that digital money could conquer the world.

Depends on how many satoshis are required to get by to do the daily stuff.. I don't think it will rise as much as you would think. Ofcourse the people who were in to it before that would be way better of than those that buried their heads into the sand.

Miracal

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Quote from: Amph on August 04, 2015, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

Despite how unrealistic it seems for a country to really adopt bitcoin, if it happens then it would be really mind blowing. All the people who have owned a bitcoin will be instantly rich, richer than what they were for sure. I am sometimes surprised how the world is so slow to adopt crypto, as a kid I always imagined that digital money could conquer the world.

Amph

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Quote from: Andy4.4 on August 04, 2015, 01:02:23 AM

Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

which will be translated in more opportunity to embrace and increase bitcoin price, hopefully at least oen of those will turn the light off on fiat if not we can get at least a good hype that might make bitcoin stronger

Andy4.4

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Just wait and watch, there will be more members coming to defaulters list.

OROBTC

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...

neurotypical (and members likely to comment below)

IMO, Puerto Rico is just the first of many other high-profile cases to DEFAULT. We will see it more and more. Eventually it wil even make the news.

It's not just Detroit, California cities, Cyprus and Greece anymore.

Lots of defaults coming, one way or another:

-- Puerto Rico style defaults

-- "Debt Jubilees" may come back, these have been around for millennia

-- Continued borrowing until the very end: more default

-- Hyperinflation

It's almost always one or the more above in resolving debts too high to pay in real terms.

neurotypical

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http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/investing/puerto-rico-default/

Damn, I can't believe this is happening so close, it's unbeliable but it was unavoidable. 58 million of unplayable fee. I really hope these guys don't get all of their money stolen. Only if we were in 2025 they could have had a chance with Bitcoin we are still on the very early days.

Topic: It's happening: Puerto Rico just defaulted for the first time (Read 1822 times)