Japan’s GMO Plans to Sell 7nm Bitcoin Mining Boards Using Token Sale

NODEhaven

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Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on January 24, 2018, 10:25:19 PM

Still just pie-in-the-sky PR to raise monies via their token sales.
Some recent insight re: 10nm and lower nodes. Pay attention to the parts about the cost and number of masks/steps needed when using non-EUV light sources.

Current node size points and costs

*can* 7nm be done without EUV? A very cautious 'yes' if cost and production rates are no object but it will NOT be happening in this year before Q4. Otherwise 2019 is still a very safe guesstimate before any production-ready processes are starting up assuming the remaining hurdles to the EUV sources can be solved.

The 7c looks like a good middle of road target for 2019. 5 EUV masks.

That may be why GMO is saying 1st test 7nm Miner in 2018 presumably before EUV introduction. Then full-scale production is moved over to 7c when production begins. Idk, there could be other reasons.

If GMO does meet their targets for this year then I doubt the just make one or two miners. Do you think prototype is code for we are building a large scale mining facility?

sidehack

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Curmudgeonly hardware guy

Right, because openly stealing is a good business strategy.

digger888

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Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on January 24, 2018, 10:25:19 PM

Still just pie-in-the-sky PR to raise monies via their token sales.
Some recent insight re: 10nm and lower nodes. Pay attention to the parts about the cost and number of masks/steps needed when using non-EUV light sources.

Current node size points and costs

*can* 7nm be done without EUV? A very cautious 'yes' if cost and production rates are no object but it will NOT be happening in this year before Q4. Otherwise 2019 is still a very safe guesstimate before any production-ready processes are starting up assuming the remaining hurdles to the EUV sources can be solved.

Thanks for sharing the link as it is a very informative presentation. There may be a situation whereby Bitmain can release 10nm before going to 7nm. It may not be a significant leap but it is an incremental improvement. If I were running Bitmain, I would release 10nm to sell more hardware. Let's the GMO and other competitors struggle and waste valuable resources on the 7nm technology. Once the 7nm technology is released, it will only be an incremental improvement from Bitmain's 10nm. After the competition completed their development, I would quickly copy it and release Bitmain's 7nm. I would flood the market with 7nm antminers at a lower price and take out my competitors before they can recoup their R&D cost.

Do you think that I am ruthless enough to apply for a job at Bitmain?

NotFuzzyWarm

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Evil beware: We have waffles!

Still just pie-in-the-sky PR to raise monies via their token sales.
Some recent insight re: 10nm and lower nodes. Pay attention to the parts about the cost and number of masks/steps needed when using non-EUV light sources.

Current node size points and costs

*can* 7nm be done without EUV? A very cautious 'yes' if cost and production rates are no object but it will NOT be happening in this year before Q4. Otherwise 2019 is still a very safe guesstimate before any production-ready processes are starting up assuming the remaining hurdles to the EUV sources can be solved.

Megaquake

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Cutting-edge 7 nm process technology for chips will be used in the mining process, and GMO Internet will continue to work on research and development, using the next-generation mining boards in the mining process in the first half of 2018.

https://www.gmo.jp/en/news/article/?id=764

crypto_curious

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Quote from: yugyug on October 26, 2017, 10:47:32 AM

here ids the source : https://news.bitcoin.com/japans-gmo-7nm-bitcoin-mining-boards-token-sale/
- this is the the highlights of this products :
Each card will be able to mine at a projected 8 terahashes per second or more with a power consumption of only 300 watts

it is more power effecient than the leading bitmain s9 antminer today if we need to a 16 tera hash it will only need 600 watts of power compare to a 1 kilowatt s9 miners. but the only problem is the sale is thru token or ICO sale. so this project is not for everyone as Japanese ICO regulation means stricter customer KYC requirements.

Bitcoin.com? I was goint to read it but stench of that website stopped me cold in the middle of mouse clickn Cheesy

Sandal_Hat

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I guess the only risk if is a sudden breakthrough occurs for the 7nm chips. Otherwise, it should take some time.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: boyno on January 18, 2018, 07:44:53 AM

"GMO’s 7nm ASIC Chips
The design logic of the 7nm chip has already been completed

Which is a long EXPEN$IVE way away from having working engineering samples to prove working silicon, much less PRODUCTION silicon.

Do I expect someone (probably more than one someone) to come out with an S9 beater on the 7/10 nm node? YES.
Do I expect it in 2018? Not only "NO" but "PRETTY MUCH DEFINITELY HELL NO".
Do I expect it in 2019 sometime? Probably.

Samsung appears to be in production (in small "trial proof of technology" mode) on their 10nm node, so I expect their next smartphone design will probably use a 10nm chip.
Intel has already announced production of 10nm CPUs for later this year - they HAVE been working on that longer than pretty much anyone else, so it's not a shock if they get to market first.

GF and TSMC "7nm" looks to be hitting small scale engineering proof production levels late this year, and probably won't hit full production levels for months to a year after that.

Also expect YIELDS to be very poor for the first year at least, based on experience with the LAST TWO production nodes.

Then we get to start thinking about the issue with the "next node" and both Intel and IBM stating the CURRENT node is "end of the road for pure silicon"....

QuintLeo

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TSMC 7NM is defintely an improvement over current 14/16 nm processes.

While ASIC chips might be "simpler" in basic design than smartphone chips, the are a LOT higher power density and push the limits of the process JUST as hard if not harder.
They also aren't noticeably lower DENSITY if at all - which actually pushes the power density harder 'cause there is less "not in use right this second" circuitry using up chip space.

I can't read that article that was posted because of the bloody "pop-up that covers the entire page AND WON'T GIVE YOU A TURN IT OFF OPTION.

I hate web sites that DO that sort of garbage, even when you CAN turn the irritation garbage off.

btcrealm

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NODEhaven you may be right on the others fudging their definition of what a 7nm chip is but it should still be better than the leading current product (S9).
Here is the TSMC article that people are talking about (I'm not sure if this is the original one, the same article is on multiple sites).
http://bitcoinglobal.news/chip-giant-tsmc-expects-strong-demand-for-cryptocurrency-mining-to-continue/

The chips that are used for mining are not as complex as what would be used in a phone or for multitasking. An ASICs chip is single very fast processing, not a lot of swapping with memory and multiple threads. It may be easier due to the lack of complexity.

BTCRealm

boyno

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"GMO’s 7nm ASIC Chips
The design logic of the 7nm chip has already been completed, Kumagai said. “The overwhelming competitive advantage is confirmed,” he added. “Next-generation semiconductors, which are under development based on an exclusive agreement with partners, are expected to operate with about 56% of the power of comparable performance, and the test version is expected to be completed in 2018,” Techwave conveyed. Mass production of the 7nm chips will begin in May of next year."

https://news.bitcoin.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GMO-Chip-PCI.png
https://news.bitcoin.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GMO-Chip.png
https://news.bitcoin.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GMO-Chip3.png
https://news.bitcoin.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/rack.png

Went from 1st Q 2018 to May of 2019. On the GMO mining website when they get down into giberish about new chips they say they plan to start R&D and based on the result start consumer production. To me its like announcing Im gona start selling a 50TH miner that you wear on your wrist like a watch, it runs off body heat and a tiny tank that you must keep topped off with 3 drops of fresh warm urine. 10 billion dollars per half hour! I just need ya'll to buy my token, whos with me?

CarrollFilms

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Can I eat a Bitcoin?

Yea, maybe by 2019 we'll see this kind of technology in our phones. But I highly doubt it's even far from being ready to mine with.

NODEhaven

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Intel 10nm is equivalent to everyone elses 7nm. So technically 7nm has been around for longer than people might think.

Below is an article that explains where all of the different foundries are at with their processes and how they compare to one another. Credit goes to Scotten Jones at IC Knowledge. He is all over this!

"Intel takes the lead in 2014 with their 14nm process with a standard node value of 12.1. Samsung and then TSMC take the lead in 2017 with their 10nm processes having standard node values of 11.2 and 10.3 respectively. Intel takes the lead back in early 2017 with their 10nm process with a new standard node value of 8.3. In late 2017 TSMC takes the lead back with their 7nm with a standard node of 7.9 before GLOBALFOUNDRIES takes the lead in early 2018 with their 7nm process with a standard node value of 7.8."

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/6895-standard-node-trend.html

QuintLeo

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Quote from: Shunyo on January 10, 2018, 12:48:34 PM

Just read the comments below that article itself , and you will get to know the reality, 7nm chips are still in R&D stage and are very very expensive to be used practically. GMO wants to launch an ICO and want to create hype before that so they can raise money and fool the gullible investors.

7nm hasn't left the lab yet - the only "chips" that MIGHT have been produced to date have been internal testing stuff, NOT FOR SALE TO ANYONE.
There is no "very very expensive to be used" at all, much less "practically".

10nm is only JUST hitting real production out of Samsung and Intel.
TSMC and GF have announced and have been working on "7nm" but they're way behind the curve as their "7nm" processes are widely reported to be looking more like "10nm" out of Intel or Samsung than "actual 7nm feature size".

Shunyo

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Just read the comments below that article itself , and you will get to know the reality, 7nm chips are still in R&D stage and are very very expensive to be used practically. GMO wants to launch an ICO and want to create hype before that so they can raise money and fool the gullible investors.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: br1mcoin on November 02, 2017, 08:22:09 PM

we tried to place order for 50 pcs on the day it announced (hyperbitshop) for sale. Can't get it.
plus the cost and delivery is per bitmain style. nothing innovative there.

Thing that gets me, why did they pick a "primary distributor" in AUSTRALIA of all places?

Do they actually WANT to do any retail sales at all?

br1mcoin

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Quote from: QuintLeo on November 02, 2017, 07:33:32 PM

Quote from: HagssFIN on November 02, 2017, 07:36:43 AM

BW.com is actually now selling their hardware even to small customers via official distributor Hyperbit.

https://twitter.com/www_bw_com/status/917273468265291776

www.hyperbitshop.io

Yeah, I saw that about 20 minutes after my last post.

I also note that hyperbitshop.io seems to be out of stock on everything right now....

we tried to place order for 50 pcs on the day it announced (hyperbitshop) for sale. Can't get it.
plus the cost and delivery is per bitmain style. nothing innovative there.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: HagssFIN on November 02, 2017, 07:36:43 AM

BW.com is actually now selling their hardware even to small customers via official distributor Hyperbit.

https://twitter.com/www_bw_com/status/917273468265291776

www.hyperbitshop.io

Yeah, I saw that about 20 minutes after my last post.

I also note that hyperbitshop.io seems to be out of stock on everything right now....

HagssFIN

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Electrical engineer. Mining since 2014.

BW.com is actually now selling their hardware even to small customers via official distributor Hyperbit.

https://twitter.com/www_bw_com/status/917273468265291776

www.hyperbitshop.io

QuintLeo

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Quote from: HagssFIN on November 02, 2017, 04:36:20 AM

Not a silly idea at all my man.

Bitmain Antminer L3+ and BW.com BW-L21 are 28nm node process ASIC chip miners.

Innosilicon A4+ LTC Master is a 14nm node process ASIC chip miner.

I sit corrected on the BW.com BW-L21, per their page on it.
I begin to understand how the A4+ is managing to get the kind of hashrate and efficiency Innosilicon has been posting videos about recently.

The question now becomes "can Bitmain make a RELIABLE miner on the 14/16nm node", and "will BW.com ever get end user sales going or set up to sell through a distributor to end users sometime"....

HagssFIN

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Electrical engineer. Mining since 2014.

Not a silly idea at all my man.

Bitmain Antminer L3+ and BW.com BW-L21 are 28nm node process ASIC chip miners.

Innosilicon A4+ LTC Master is a 14nm node process ASIC chip miner.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: Khurram Bin Kamal on November 01, 2017, 04:49:05 PM

Currently all scrypt miners are in 28 nm node

Antminer L3/L3+ and Innosilicon A4/A4+ are 14/16 nm node (probably all 14nm as I'm pretty sure they're all TSMC-manufactured chips).

I'm pretty sure the BW.COM scrypt miner I remember seeing an announcement about was also 14/16nm.

Where do you get the silly idea that CURRENT scrypt miners are still on the 28nm node?

I doubt we'll see a 20TH SHA256 miner, or a 800 MH Scrypt miner, or a 50 GH X11 miner before the next node hits - there doesn't seem to be that much room left on the current nodes for that much higher efficiency - though the Scrypt and X11 miners aren't pushing 1500 watts hard so it's POSSIBLE someone will built a "bigger" miner that hits those numbers there.

I would bet AGAINST a SHA256 miner at 20TH though, unless someone builds a "monster" like the Spondoolies SP50 was going to be, or it's a custom design for internal use in a LARGE farm and probably NOT air-cooled.

Khurram Bin Kamal

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Quote from: shan2026 on October 28, 2017, 09:36:34 AM

Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on October 26, 2017, 08:06:57 PM

Quote from: shan2026 on October 26, 2017, 07:33:26 PM

7nm will be ready by end of 2018 or early 2019.

Perhaps for very low power mobile device such as phones, probably. Not for high power-dense devices. The tech is simply not up to handling high power density. The problem with current 14/16nm node miners is not so much production related (though that is huge) as it is these node are not robust enough to handle thousands of hashing cores running full tilt all the time. 'Normal' chips such as CPU/GPU's have a lot of support circuitry in each chip that spends a fair bit of time idle.

Samsung's much touted use of '10nm' in the latest Galaxy and iPhones is a huge misnomer vs what IBM, Intel, AMD, etc would call 10nm. The only '10nm' chip is the ARM processor SOC (System On Chip). The only part of that chip that uses 10nm gates is the cache and sram memory in it. The rest is 14nm circuitry.

When do you think next 10nm Litecoin miner be released? Maybe next year?

Currently all scrypt miners are in 28 nm node so before 10 nm they will go for 14/16 nm node because the scrypt mining market is not so big and to develop 10 nm node it takes around 150 million US$ and for 7 nm node it takes around 270 million US $ so it is highly unlikely that we see a scrypt miner on these nodes but sha256 miner on these nodes are likely to be in late 2018

br1mcoin

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Not so fast...
it will be year 2020 maybe we will see 7nm online mining..

until then, we may see SHA256 at 20TH, Scrypt miner at 800Mh/s or X11 miner at 50Gh

QuintLeo

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I'm estimating VERY late 2019 or sometime in 2020 for the first miners on a "10nm" or "7nm" node.

shan2026

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Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on October 26, 2017, 08:06:57 PM

Quote from: shan2026 on October 26, 2017, 07:33:26 PM

7nm will be ready by end of 2018 or early 2019.

Perhaps for very low power mobile device such as phones, probably. Not for high power-dense devices. The tech is simply not up to handling high power density. The problem with current 14/16nm node miners is not so much production related (though that is huge) as it is these node are not robust enough to handle thousands of hashing cores running full tilt all the time. 'Normal' chips such as CPU/GPU's have a lot of support circuitry in each chip that spends a fair bit of time idle.

Samsung's much touted use of '10nm' in the latest Galaxy and iPhones is a huge misnomer vs what IBM, Intel, AMD, etc would call 10nm. The only '10nm' chip is the ARM processor SOC (System On Chip). The only part of that chip that uses 10nm gates is the cache and sram memory in it. The rest is 14nm circuitry.

When do you think next 10nm Litecoin miner be released? Maybe next year?

NotFuzzyWarm

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Quote from: shan2026 on October 26, 2017, 07:33:26 PM

7nm will be ready by end of 2018 or early 2019.

Perhaps for very low power mobile device such as phones, probably. Not for high power-dense devices. The tech is simply not up to handling high power density. The problem with current 14/16nm node miners is not so much production related (though that is huge) as it is these node are not robust enough to handle thousands of hashing cores running full tilt all the time. 'Normal' chips such as CPU/GPU's have a lot of support circuitry in each chip that spends a fair bit of time idle.

Samsung's much touted use of '10nm' in the latest Galaxy and iPhones is a huge misnomer vs what IBM, Intel, AMD, etc would call 10nm. The only '10nm' chip is the ARM processor SOC (System On Chip). The only part of that chip that uses 10nm gates is the cache and sram memory in it. The rest is 14nm circuitry.

shan2026

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7nm will be ready by end of 2018 or early 2019.

NotFuzzyWarm

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Evil beware: We have waffles!

This really REALLY needs to be continued where the pile of GMO 1st got plopped - in the 7nm thread That is where the contents of GMO's pile of crap and why it is crap can be properly referenced by those those intelligent enough to read...

Even more to the point is that the Topic itself needs to be moved by the mods to altcoin discussion area as it deals with Tokens aka -- altcoins.

fanatic26

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The stench of bullshit is so strong it was hard to even read the entire article. Talking about 5nm and 3.5nm chips? Riiigghhtttt

VRobb

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I'm in BTC XTC

Hmmmm, a PCIe card edge connector can handle 300 watts? The MB this card is to be plugged into can deliver 300W to the PCIe slot(s)?

Really? Huh

yugyug

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here ids the source : https://news.bitcoin.com/japans-gmo-7nm-bitcoin-mining-boards-token-sale/
- this is the the highlights of this products :
Each card will be able to mine at a projected 8 terahashes per second or more with a power consumption of only 300 watts

it is more power effecient than the leading bitmain s9 antminer today if we need to a 16 tera hash it will only need 600 watts of power compare to a 1 kilowatt s9 miners. but the only problem is the sale is thru token or ICO sale. so this project is not for everyone as Japanese ICO regulation means stricter customer KYC requirements.

Topic: Japan’s GMO Plans to Sell 7nm Bitcoin Mining Boards Using Token Sale (Read 1968 times)