Jumping between pools as they slow down?

CERRO

newbie

Activity: 12

Merit: 0

Quote from: thedreamer on March 07, 2015, 11:51:45 PM

Just asking, as I'm new to the pool mining thaaang. Cheesy

I'll just stick on kano then. Just hard to see days where the earnings are 1/3 they should be. Grin

I have to get used to not being able to average or estimate the income as some days will just be better than others and at the end it should equal out.

Maybe I can average per a weekly or monthly basis.

New to pool mining also I appreciate you creating this thread @thedreamer, because its also a question I've been dealing with. I really am blown away by the great feedback on the forum from everyon, it has been priceless. Like you I too am sticking to Kano, because I appreciate the transparency. In addition with Kano I actually get paid for the work I've done per block. Where with other pools it seems that I only got paid a set amount per day for my hashrate, regardless of the amount of blocks the pool got. I have another SP20 enroute, and will being pointing it to Kano's pool by the end of the week

DrHaribo

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 1034

Needs more jiggawatts

Pool hopping is to switch pools at the right time to get paid more than your fair share: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5072/what-is-pool-hopping

PPLNS, when implemented correctly, makes this impossible. This is because with PPLNS you never know what you are going to earn for the mining you do right now. You just have to wait and see. And that is what PPLNS was designed to accomplish. This also means that you cannot see that a pool is stuck in a rut and won't find a block for a while. You do not possess a magical ability to tell the future. For some reason it is very common for miners to believe they have this super power. In reality this is not the case.

If you want to try pool hopping then read up on it and look for pools vulnerable to pool hopping (proportional reward method mainly, but also Slush's score method unless it has been changed).

Note that most of the vulnerable pools will not be happy about pool hopping.

Also note that pool hopping is based on math. It's not based on observing that a pool is stuck in a rut, that you think you can predict the future or that God told you which pool to switch to. It's just math taking advantage of the fact that with some reward systems it is not completely unpredictable what you will earn in the future for the mining you do right now.

alh

legendary

Activity: 1846

Merit: 1052

What I have never understood is that if you have a single "large" miner (e.g. an SP20), and then decide to provide multiple pools to it, doesn't that just appear to be "pool hopping" at the whim of the mining software?

I have routinely mined at Slush. It always seemed to me that if I provided a "backup pool", then as soon as there is a hiccup with Slush, then as viewed by Slush I have "pool hopped" off to wherever. This seems to run counter to the "don't pool hop" strategy.

I completely understand splitting up multiple miners amongst pools, but I've never had enough hashpower to make that beneficial it would seem.

What am I not understanding about multiple pools here?

aurel57

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1000

Quote from: thedreamer on March 08, 2015, 02:43:40 PM

I think I'll try to divide my hashes evenly 'Balance' it between 2 pools instead of hopping.

Thanks guys!

Good idea... I have mine split between BAN paying PPS so I get a set amount paid and Kano's pool paying PPLNS and am happy. I also have the miners on BAN set to rent hash on Westhash when the price hits my threshold.

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: thedreamer on March 08, 2015, 02:43:40 PM

I think I'll try to divide my hashes evenly 'Balance' it between 2 pools instead of hopping.

Thanks guys!

Yep I mine 10th at

kano= https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.0-----------------1.3th

ck = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=763510.0------------------- 3gh a usb stick this is a solo pool all or nothing close to 25btc if you mine the block

mmpool = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559011.0-------------1.8th

ban = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854368.0------------------1.4th

west-nicehash = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=893133.0------1.4th

discus fish = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700411.0----------4.2th

I shift around a little but mostly stick to the pattern above. Shoot me a pm about strategies.

I like using the sp20's as they have many pools to list for rollover. but antminers have 3 and that works.

thedreamer

legendary

Activity: 1694

Merit: 1002

Go Big or Go Home.....

I think I'll try to divide my hashes evenly 'Balance' it between 2 pools instead of hopping.

Thanks guys!

jonnybravo0311

legendary

Activity: 1344

Merit: 1024

Mine at Jonny's Pool

Quote from: aurel57 on March 08, 2015, 05:43:14 AM

It depends on which pool your on just how bad you get hurt. As on Slush or p2pool if you hop off you can very well lose all your work and get paid zero for your shares.
In stead of pool hoping you can just split your miners up between a couple of pools makes more sense.

P2Pool is PPLNS, so you only lose your work once N has passed. This is why PPLNS discourages pool hopping, because it takes you N to ramp up to your fully expected payout. P2Pool can make it seem even worse since you could feasibly mine there for quite some time without getting a share onto the chain.

@thedreamer - you are always going to see variance in your payouts no matter where you mine. Sure, you'll have days where you make 1/3 of expectations. Then you'll have days where you make 500%. It's the nature of the beast.

aurel57

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1000

It depends on which pool your on just how bad you get hurt. As on Slush or p2pool if you hop off you can very well lose all your work and get paid zero for your shares.
In stead of pool hoping you can just split your miners up between a couple of pools makes more sense.

pokeyjones

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

Once you understand what "averaging" is you'll be that much closer to your answer.

i pool hop because i'm inpatient and immature and stupid. i've been sticking to my pool and just sticking to it. it has to pay sometime!

thedreamer

legendary

Activity: 1694

Merit: 1002

Go Big or Go Home.....

Just asking, as I'm new to the pool mining thaaang. Cheesy

I'll just stick on kano then. Just hard to see days where the earnings are 1/3 they should be. Grin

I have to get used to not being able to average or estimate the income as some days will just be better than others and at the end it should equal out.

Maybe I can average per a weekly or monthly basis.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: thedreamer on March 07, 2015, 11:11:14 PM

Somebody mentioned it to me before, but I'm not sure what the hive mind thinks.

If you have all your Hashes going to a Pool that is stuck in a rutt for a long block, past I think 8 hours or so, do you jump to another one to try to make up for that day's loss, then back once the block is done?

Is this something people do?

For PPLNS only:
As I mentioned in my thread ... the last longest block we had, all the shares in it got paid in full, and the shares on the end of it got paid more - in fact it was ~160% PPS for around the last 40-50%Diff shares in that 316% block.
So if you left before the long block finished, you missed the extra.
That's random, but a simple example of why hopping can be a bad idea.

However, the simple statistics of it are certain, past luck doesn't affect future luck.
Gambler's Fallacy as mentioned many times before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

Of course if a pool's block history/orphans is affected by something other than luck, like crappy code

, or stealing/hiding blocks, or not meeting their stated payouts, or ?, then that's a different issue.
In that case you shouldn't be mining there in the first place Tongue

thedreamer

legendary

Activity: 1694

Merit: 1002

Go Big or Go Home.....

Somebody mentioned it to me before, but I'm not sure what the hive mind thinks.

If you have all your Hashes going to a Pool that is stuck in a rutt for a long block, past I think 8 hours or so, do you jump to another one to try to make up for that day's loss, then back once the block is done?

Is this something people do?

Topic: Jumping between pools as they slow down? (Read 1942 times)