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Topic: Katyn, before and after (Read 99 times)

legendary
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July 09, 2023, 11:16:47 AM
#13
Russia traditionally commits war crimes in all its wars, and today's war with Ukraine is no exception.

That is absolutely correct but while many such crimes have been committed in the past where there were no such advanced technologies as we have today most of them are only documented through history while the atrocities in Bucha,Irpin and Kharkiv are well documented thanks to our technologies and this is enough to call the Russians the worse breed of murderers today on earth,yes they well pass the ISIS gang.The fact that they killed civilians en mass was the worse crime that anyone can commit and they were innocent civilians having nothing to do with such war.I don't remember any other crime as huge as atrocities in Bucha and the other places mentioned here so yes Russians are the pure evil on earth.
legendary
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July 09, 2023, 10:53:44 AM
#12

Americans killing German soldiers is a little thing.

Cool

Americans killing German soldiers is a little thing. So is the Russian war murders where Russians executed others. Take a look at something rather big that America and Canada did. Russia is like a baby in this. Sometime, take a look outside of your cozy box.

So in every war the soldiers of the enemy soldiers are killed. Then you claimed that the Americans committed war crimes against German soldiers. I asked for an example. As it turns out, you don't have one. Here the topic is about a specific war crime, and not just about wars. As I understand it, you have no questions on the topic, that is, you agree with what I wrote.

Of course you have to respond with this silliness. Is your whole post about shooting? Of course not. It's about making Russia look worse than other nations.

Look here again, where The US killed a bunch of German POWs at the end or after WW2. Do you really think that the US didn't shoot Germans in WW2? Do you really think that 'dead' is only 'dead' when it is done by shooting? Does death have to be done in an instantaneous manner - like killing off thousands in a matter of a few hours - to be death that is really death?

Since you can't seem to answer this stuff, you only prove that you are simply out there to slander Russia.

How much are you getting paid? Who is paying you? Is this your revenge against some long-gone Russian soldiers who killed off your family fifty years ago, or something? Why are you really like this? Tell us straight out. Because Russia isn't worse than any other major country, and maybe it's better than most others, including the US.

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legendary
Activity: 3290
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July 08, 2023, 11:49:22 PM
#11
Russia traditionally commits war crimes in all its wars, and today's war with Ukraine is no exception.

You keep on trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Russia is no better or worse than any other country. Consider President Eisenhower. Maybe several million German POWs were killed or allowed to die following WW@2. This was something that Eisenhower pushed to happen. My guess is that he didn't like the idea completely. But he was so hateful of Germans that he went right along with it.
The question is, how many German civilians were killed right along with the POWs, or at other times?


Cool
I do not know of a case where the Americans shot captured German soldiers. But the fact that the Russians shot 24,000 Polish prisoners of war is known to everyone and this topic is about this war crime of Russia, in which Russia has not admitted for a long time. If you know that the Americans also shot German prisoners in mass numbers, then write about it. Probably everyone will be interested to know. However, it seems to me that you will not be able to do this.


Americans killing German soldiers is a little thing.

Cool

Americans killing German soldiers is a little thing. So is the Russian war murders where Russians executed others. Take a look at something rather big that America and Canada did. Russia is like a baby in this. Sometime, take a look outside of your cozy box.

So in every war the soldiers of the enemy soldiers are killed. Then you claimed that the Americans committed war crimes against German soldiers. I asked for an example. As it turns out, you don't have one. Here the topic is about a specific war crime, and not just about wars. As I understand it, you have no questions on the topic, that is, you agree with what I wrote.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
July 08, 2023, 03:26:22 PM
#10
Russia traditionally commits war crimes in all its wars, and today's war with Ukraine is no exception.

You keep on trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Russia is no better or worse than any other country. Consider President Eisenhower. Maybe several million German POWs were killed or allowed to die following WW@2. This was something that Eisenhower pushed to happen. My guess is that he didn't like the idea completely. But he was so hateful of Germans that he went right along with it.
The question is, how many German civilians were killed right along with the POWs, or at other times?


Cool
I do not know of a case where the Americans shot captured German soldiers. But the fact that the Russians shot 24,000 Polish prisoners of war is known to everyone and this topic is about this war crime of Russia, in which Russia has not admitted for a long time. If you know that the Americans also shot German prisoners in mass numbers, then write about it. Probably everyone will be interested to know. However, it seems to me that you will not be able to do this.


Americans killing German soldiers is a little thing. So is the Russian war murders where Russians executed others. Take a look at something rather big that America and Canada did. Russia is like a baby in this. Sometime, take a look outside of your cozy box.

Also, check this - https://americangenocide.com/ and this https://yandex.com/search/?text=us+soldiers+shot+native+americans&lr=10000&search_source=yacom_desktop_common&redircnt=1688847110.1.

Try this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_massacres_in_North_America.



Genocide and Denying It: Why We Are Not Taught that the Natives of the United States and Canada were Exterminated
Death Toll: 95,000,000 to 114,000,000




https://espressostalinist.com/genocide/native-american-genocide/
American Holocaust: D. Stannard (Oxford Press, 1992) – “over 100 million killed” “[Christopher] Columbus personally murdered half a million Natives.”

    “Hitler’s concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in South Africa and for the Indians in the wild west; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America’s extermination – by starvation and uneven combat – of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity.”

   — P. 202, “Adolph Hitler” by John Toland
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legendary
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July 08, 2023, 03:18:25 PM
#9
War crimes are crimes against humanity that cannot be accepted in any way and cannot end with mere confession or apology. What will the families of the victims gain from an apology after the death of their loved ones?

These tragedies that are happening in the world are the reason for the dreams of these psychopaths who are called great leaders. These are the ones who have caused the death of millions of people throughout the ages.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 1022
July 08, 2023, 02:28:43 PM
#8
Russia traditionally commits war crimes in all its wars, and today's war with Ukraine is no exception.

You keep on trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Russia is no better or worse than any other country. Consider President Eisenhower. Maybe several million German POWs were killed or allowed to die following WW@2. This was something that Eisenhower pushed to happen. My guess is that he didn't like the idea completely. But he was so hateful of Germans that he went right along with it.
The question is, how many German civilians were killed right along with the POWs, or at other times?


Cool
I do not know of a case where the Americans shot captured German soldiers. But the fact that the Russians shot 24,000 Polish prisoners of war is known to everyone and this topic is about this war crime of Russia, in which Russia has not admitted for a long time. If you know that the Americans also shot German prisoners in mass numbers, then write about it. Probably everyone will be interested to know. However, it seems to me that you will not be able to do this.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
July 08, 2023, 10:59:57 AM
#7
Russia traditionally commits war crimes in all its wars, and today's war with Ukraine is no exception.

You keep on trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Russia is no better or worse than any other country. Consider President Eisenhower. Maybe several million German POWs were killed or allowed to die following WW@2. This was something that Eisenhower pushed to happen. My guess is that he didn't like the idea completely. But he was so hateful of Germans that he went right along with it.

The question is, how many German civilians were killed right along with the POWs, or at other times? You pick on Russians like they are a special breed of murders. It just isn't so. Russians are simply people fighting for their homeland, like so many others. And like so many others, some of them are bad, but most of them are good.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=Eisenhower+mistreats+5-million+germans+after+ww2&ia=web



Eisenhower’s Evil Deception: Exterminating German POWs Abroad While Portraying POWs on U.S. Soil as Pampered



http://www.renegadetribune.com/eisenhowers-evil-deception-exterminating-german-pows-abroad-portraying-pows-u-s-soil-pampered/
Numerous American soldiers and officers have come forth to witness the atrocious death rate in the American and French POW camps.

   Capt. Ben H. Jackson said that when he approached one of the camps along the Rhine: “I could smell it a mile away. It was barbaric.”

    There [were] 10,000 or more German prisoners in this open field, standing shoulder to shoulder. This bunch of prisoners [was] there for three days or more with no food or water, no shelter… Most of the guards were very brutal… On the morning the prisoners were moved out… mud was deep as far as I could see. Heads, arms and legs of the dead were sticking out of the mud. It made me sick and disgusted.


James Bacque estimates that upwards of 1 million German POWs died in American and French camps after World War II. Numerous American soldiers have come forward to testify to this atrocity. Their testimonies were deposited in 2009 in the Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library at the University of Toronto where they are available for use.
...



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legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 1022
July 07, 2023, 11:57:59 PM
#6
Russia traditionally commits war crimes in all its wars, and today's war with Ukraine is no exception.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 1022
March 09, 2023, 03:08:03 PM
#5
Just as the Russians did not admit their crime in Katyn for half a century, today they do not admit to the crime in Bucha.


When it is convenient, Russians admit that Russia was synonymous with the Soviet Union (like the UN seat) but when it comes to atrocities
(like Katyn or Holodomor) it was the Soviet Union, not Russia. Don't bother to understand what Russians are saying.

After this cluster*uck is over, and the bunker rat kills himself, they will be saying it was not Russia, it was Putin's regime.

Nobody should be doing any business with them, or care what they say. Ignore them, and eliminate them from your society.

Cancel Russians, Russian culture, and the Russian language from your societies.

The funniest thing I still hear from American and European politicians is that "we are not at war with Russians, but with Putin's regime".
Stupid fucks, Russians are at war with you, dumbfucks.

90% of Russians ARE Putin. 9 out of 10 Russians are copies of Putin. So think about it.

Of course, they will be denying Bucha and some 70+ sites like Bucha.

PS. When Putin drops the first nuke, and the West enters this war, they will see how many Russian agents are living in the West.
The West does not understand this culture.

 Yes, unfortunately you are right.

I agree. If the West knew Russia, they would essentially know Ukraine at the same time. They would stop sending their valuable money and armament to Ukraine. At least the people would want to. But their so-called leaders want to take over the whole world, now that they have Ukraine.

Cool

You have to think who owns Ukraine owns the whole world. Now the reason why Russia attacked Ukraine is clear. However, you are moving away from the discussion of the topic. We are talking about Russian war crimes.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
March 09, 2023, 02:02:57 PM
#4
Just as the Russians did not admit their crime in Katyn for half a century, today they do not admit to the crime in Bucha.


When it is convenient, Russians admit that Russia was synonymous with the Soviet Union (like the UN seat) but when it comes to atrocities
(like Katyn or Holodomor) it was the Soviet Union, not Russia. Don't bother to understand what Russians are saying.

After this cluster*uck is over, and the bunker rat kills himself, they will be saying it was not Russia, it was Putin's regime.

Nobody should be doing any business with them, or care what they say. Ignore them, and eliminate them from your society.

Cancel Russians, Russian culture, and the Russian language from your societies.

The funniest thing I still hear from American and European politicians is that "we are not at war with Russians, but with Putin's regime".
Stupid fucks, Russians are at war with you, dumbfucks.

90% of Russians ARE Putin. 9 out of 10 Russians are copies of Putin. So think about it.

Of course, they will be denying Bucha and some 70+ sites like Bucha.

PS. When Putin drops the first nuke, and the West enters this war, they will see how many Russian agents are living in the West.
The West does not understand this culture.

 Yes, unfortunately you are right.

I agree. If the West knew Russia, they would essentially know Ukraine at the same time. They would stop sending their valuable money and armament to Ukraine. At least the people would want to. But their so-called leaders want to take over the whole world, now that they have Ukraine.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 1022
March 09, 2023, 03:38:28 AM
#3
Just as the Russians did not admit their crime in Katyn for half a century, today they do not admit to the crime in Bucha.


When it is convenient, Russians admit that Russia was synonymous with the Soviet Union (like the UN seat) but when it comes to atrocities
(like Katyn or Holodomor) it was the Soviet Union, not Russia. Don't bother to understand what Russians are saying.

After this cluster*uck is over, and the bunker rat kills himself, they will be saying it was not Russia, it was Putin's regime.

Nobody should be doing any business with them, or care what they say. Ignore them, and eliminate them from your society.

Cancel Russians, Russian culture, and the Russian language from your societies.

The funniest thing I still hear from American and European politicians is that "we are not at war with Russians, but with Putin's regime".
Stupid fucks, Russians are at war with you, dumbfucks.

90% of Russians ARE Putin. 9 out of 10 Russians are copies of Putin. So think about it.

Of course, they will be denying Bucha and some 70+ sites like Bucha.

PS. When Putin drops the first nuke, and the West enters this war, they will see how many Russian agents are living in the West.
The West does not understand this culture.

 Yes, unfortunately you are right.
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 1468
March 09, 2023, 01:16:32 AM
#2
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 1022
March 09, 2023, 12:43:40 AM
#1
Just as the Russians did not admit their crime in Katyn for half a century, today they do not admit to the crime in Bucha.


Alik Bakhshi
                           
Katyn, before and after


    In recent years, the Russian-language press were trying to return to the Soviet period perverse interpretation of the known facts, denouncing the aggressive policy of the Soviet Union on the eve of the Second World War. This fact reveals the phenomenon of the revision of the Kremlin timid steps towards historical truth, which occurred in a short period Eltsinovskoy thaw. Under the slogan "no falsification of history" actually goes its restoration campaign, in accordance with the story, which was written pseudo-historians Kremlin. Interestingly, this trend felt Stalin's grandson, has filed a lawsuit against the newspaper, ran a story about Stalin. Of course, in other circumstances, whether grandson unlikely to set off on a search for "truth" in the protection of his grandfather. It's like as if a virtual grandson of Hitler began to seek justification in the crimes of his grandfather on the pretext that no indictments documents Hitler's signature.
   
        Official Moscow version of the fault of the Germans in the Katyn tragedy ever since the Nuremberg trials, when Moscow's attempt to blame the mass execution of Polish officers by the Germans, was recognized as a lie. This fact was the reason for concealing information about the crime. Unlike in the West, the Soviet Union naturally blatant fact of abuse of innocent people nobody knew, until the collapse of the communist ideology, while the Poles are not officially requested archival documents upon execution. Part of the documents handed over to Russian, but apparently the deal is so shameful for Russia, and that it is limited, ignoring the Poles insistence on the complete withdrawal of confidentiality on the Katyn crime.
   
     Putin as a true national patriot, well aware that the Russian people by virtue of his mentality can only exist in a totalitarian state, headed "back to the Empire." (The phrase "every nation has the government it deserves", brilliant in its simplicity, and irrefutable.) The collapse of the Soviet Union, the collapse of the communist ideology and, more importantly, though, about the events preceding the war, however, known to all, but carefully concealed from the public the most truthful , the most honest countries in the world, suddenly leaked from the archives of the dying of the country, like the conscience of the dying - made a mental discomfort in the minds of constituent people (brilliant linguistic discovery Russian nationalists) Empire. People who pathologically incapable of collective active in social and political life, the people who need a leader, all of it is solved and then posthumously and is responsible for the error turned out to be the entered in a democracy like suffocating fish out of water. And if it was not a fatal error of the oligarchs, who have found a replacement patient degraded Yeltsin in the face of Putin, the authorities in Russia, again, would be represented by a sovereign democracy, but unlike today would represent a symbiosis of a small group of super-oligarchs and the president-puppet. What would be fundamentally no different from what has in fact, except for one, but very significant detail - the national structure of power. And it is this circumstance that prevented the looting of the country and the export of capital.
     
     The merit of Putin to his people is that he understood the two main things:
1- the mentality of the Russian people will not accept democracy
Empire 2 is the Russian people lost.
 
   Democracy in Russia is only possible with the elimination of these two reasons. (For details, see. In the article "The People's fate or each cricket to his last» (http://proza.ru/2008/03/22/639)
    To paraphrase a well-known expression "that Russian well, the German for death", we can say, "democracy is contraindicated Russian people." Here no choice remains one path "Back to the empire." What actually makes Putin. Election, the Constitution, the Duma, and all related paraphernalia Democracy Putin emasculated. These words as decoration, behind which - totalitarianism. Unfortunately, many in the West do not want to understand this, and some called the dictator only as "friend of Putin." Like the marshals of the militia of Minin and Pozharsky, expel small Polish team from the Kremlin, Putin and Medvedev have saved Russia from several Jewish at this time of the revolutionaries, and the oligarchs, who have decided to repeat 1917.
   
    There is an attempt of the Jews, or any more future applicants (interested parties to power, namely, the way it looks), to establish democracy in Russia, in vain. By the way, these contenders for power - single, no one behind them. Emptiness.
     But even more terrible - spiritual emptiness soars throughout the territory of the huge empire. Communist ideology, which stood guard over death, has suffered a complete fiasco, when the threat of a violent death, was replaced by the threat of starvation, with both protected and for themselves the guards. Recognizing the need for some kind of "Russian idea" for the constituent people of the empire, the Kremlin philosophers have found it in the so-called sovereign democracy. This is simple at first glance, the phrase a lot of ambiguity. Firstly, democracy is seen here, but a special, one must understand it suitable for the constituent people, but does for the other peoples of the empire. Second, this phrase is convenient by the fact that here is the word democracy, so to speak for the West, well, sovereign, that the West knew that there is another version of democracy, purely Russian, which he did not understand the West. By the way, I personally kind of democracy is also not clear, that is understandable, but not as a democracy, as well as a third option of "sovereign democracy," which, it seems to me that most accurately revealed in the definition, namely, sovereign democracy, a democracy for the sovereign (ruler).
   
   Thus, in reality, we were under a totalitarian regime, newly returned, thanks to Putin, after a short period of oblivion, in the limits of Russia. The king in a monarchy, the secretary general under socialism, when the president of sovereign democracy - essentially unchanged sovereigns totalitarian regime acceptable mentality of the Russian soul. Everything has calmed down, and now it is necessary to return to the people the peace of mind that was broken unveiling of the long-known, unpleasant for most, if I may say so, an honest, most correct in the world of the Soviet people the facts incriminating collaboration with Nazi Germany and aggressive policy towards countries in along the western border of the USSR. Appears Presidential Decree "On the Presidential Commission of the Russian Federation to counter attempts to falsify history to the detriment of Russia's interests," Medvedev. Judging by the composition of the commission, consisting mainly of political scientists and officials of various departments, created a political body, whose purpose is precisely to counteract the historical truth, causing moral damage to the Russian people. According to commission member Konstantin Zatulin, State Duma deputy from the "United Russia", it "will address the issues that are sharply politicized and can be dangerous for the moral health of society." The trend movement in the Soviet past, when science, including historical, served ideology is evident. In short the Kremlin together with the vector "back in the Empire," returns to the people falsified history, not inflicting moral damage to its relict imperial worldview. The Commission aims to protect the "moral health" constituent people, web empire.
   
     And now, taking into account the above, it becomes clear arguments have appeared in the media to justify the murder of 22 thousand Polish officers. And if the first attempt to pass a brutal massacre on the Germans, which have found a mass grave, fails, then 65 years later, when the truth about the Katyn massacre became known, and for the Russian people, and where this truth can no longer be unlocked, declared journalists, finding an excuse execution of Poles, as revenge for the defeat of the army under Tukhachevsky Warsaw in 1920. Then Pilsudski Polish army defeated the Russian invaders, who according to the plans of Leon Trotsky had to go further to Germany to bring on the bayonets of the ideas of communism Germans and other Europeans unreasonable.

     The prisoner 60 thousand Red Army soldiers fell in the campaign. It is important to note two points:
 1. Russia invaded Poland on whether the purpose to bring happiness to the Poles, introducing them to the building of communism, or return the former colony under their fold, it does not matter, it is important that the Poles disagreed and defended the country against the aggressor.
 2. The Polish prisoners were not shot.

  The political situation in Europe before World War II there was clearly not in favor of the Poles. All these years after the ignominious defeat of Moscow was preparing for revenge, with hatched a plan to return to the empire, and not by peaceful means are not only Poland, but also Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bessarabia, that is, all colonial territories, which Russia lost at the end of the First world war and the subsequent military venture in Poland. However, while the map of Europe appeared not Nazi Germany, these plans could not find reality. In Germany, Moscow saw partner in reshaping Europe and worthy opponent Tandy France and England. In London and Paris realized a serious threat hanging over Europe, and sent a delegation to Moscow to seek support to counter the intentions of Germany (August 1939). The negotiations have been fruitless because of disagreement to give at the mercy of Bolsheviks Finland and the Baltic states. And a few days later, August 23, Molotov and Ribbentrop signed the famous non-aggression pact with the secret protocols of the partition of Poland and the freedom of action of the USSR in Finland, the Baltic States and Bessarabia. From that day the tragic fate of Europe was sealed. A month later, two predators bite into her body, tearing each other the country to converge on a common agreed-upon beforehand border. During the attack on Finland, the Soviet Union expelled from the League of Nations. But the Kremlin do not care about a bunch of Bolsheviks in the whole world, for the sake of the bright future of communist. State of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia cease to exist. Finnish people, selflessly fighting, defeated the Red Army, but realizing the sinister danger, Finland price Karelian Isthmus signed a peace treaty with a dangerous neighbor. Romania loses Bessarabia and Bukovina. And when it does not remain that divide the predators engage each other in mortal combat.
   
   Returning to the Katyn case, I want to ask, but could the Soviet government do differently with the Polish prisoners of war, considering the repressive actions of the father of all the peoples of Joseph Dzhugashvili, with torturers Lazar Kaganovich, Lavrenty Beria, Mendel Khatayevich against its citizens. For 30 years, these executioners hunger and shootings killed 26% of the Ukrainian people, 23% of the peoples of the Volga and the Caucasus, more than three million people lost Kazakhstan, millions of people died in Siberia. These 22 thousand officers of the Polish army had no chance to survive. Their lives did not fit in the contract prepared for the Molotov-Ribbentrop fate of the Polish state.
   And in our time under the auspices of the Russian authorities organized movement against "falsification of history", and there are officials from history, ready to passionately defend the aggressive policy of the USSR on the eve of the Second World War, and attempts to justify "Katyn" is the height of hypocrisy and effect a complete lack of conscience.

______________
 


      The theme of the board for the crimes of the Soviet Union, probably more than once will emerge. Ascend as long as Russia does not repent of them, as Germany did, leaving all the past history, and freed from it, successfully cooperates with other states, and primarily with the former enemies, who in Germany have no complaints. Katyn is one of the high-profile crimes, which is still on the conscience of Russia. Katyn requires repentance and the full truth about the mass execution of innocent people.

      29.11.2009


         
    March 5, 1940 the Politburo decided on the execution of Polish prisoners of war. 21857 people were shot. Officially, Moscow does not recognize the offense for 50 years, putting it on the Germans, what to speak of Moscow's understanding of how hard it was a crime. Only after 50 years, Russia has admitted shooting of the Poles and opened on the fact of the execution of the documents
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