Topic: keep a small mining farm cool with only air conditioners. (Read 501 times)

yeah a round tube over the vent would direct the sound up.


https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pipe-fittings/culvert-pipe-accessories/corrugated-solid-culvert-drain-pipe/48gf20np-wt-m294/p-14462876080127497-c-9567.htm


this could do 4 vents.  cut it to 5 feet long

it would direct the sound up.

 I own 3 of the vents and they are good but if you stand on the flat roof they are noisy.


this would make the noise go up not out.

also both the vent and this would last a long time.


this is 60 inch by 20 feet

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pipe-fittings/culvert-pipe-accessories/corrugated-solid-culvert-drain-pipe/60gf20np-wt-m294/p-14462876080127404-c-9567.htm

the first was 48 inch  by  20 feet.

BTW if these work these would lower your ac use a bit.

4 vents and 1 pipe would be around 3500 usd here in the states.

Still not enough air out the room with them but you could move 8000 - 10000 cfm with 4 of them.

here is one of ours not yet installed.

In that case: I guess an underground man cave isn't an option?

It's the same principle they use then building sound barriers (between roads and houses).

The above conversion of mine was correct, the mistake I made was not specifying that the numbers are per day which of course made everything seems 24 times larger than what they are, but then using the correct time unit makes your source and mine identical, thanks for the correction.


Thanks for the source, I will be looking into it, it seems interesting.


could you explain this further? how would noise escape up and not to the sides?

You're confused with the units (and imperial units don't help). I already gave you the number: 1362 W/m² (high in the atmosphere). When calculating in watt, there's no reason to use BTU (or even joule). You took a unit of energy per day, and incorrectly converted that into a unit of power.
To start: 1 BTU/h is 0.293W. When you forget the "per hour", you'll end up with a 24 times larger number per day. So it would be 33.291kWh/m²/day, or much simpler: 1362 W/m².

Let's call it 0.25MW.

Aren't those exhausts usually at the roof of large buildings?

Correct. And you're blowing all this heat out.

So my concern is unnecessary. I haven't been in mining farms, I've been in (very big) power plants though, but they used water cooling or cooling towers.

Have you considered acoustic wall insulation (see Dutch webshop)?

one last item but only with a flat roof

https://roofvents.com/gravity-ventilators-aura-ventilator/av-30-c8-aura-vent-30-inch-diameter-8-inch-collar/


this vent on a flat roof on the hot isle side would allow hot air to leave the building.

I have three of them in my easier to cool room.

Noise would escape it with the heat.
                                                                     
                                                                     noise
                                                                     hot air
                                                                  << ^ >>
                                                                   !    ^  !
 roof.  >>     __________________________! vent  !____________


So it likely would not be good.



other than you had some way to direct the noise up rather than out the vent's sides.

much more of an afterthought last thing on the list idea.

built a lot of speaker cases and sound proofed a few recording studios.

If you can do mdf inside make a sandwich.

mdf/pond fabric/mdf/pond fabric/mdf

you can use 1/2 inch mdf sheets . the wall would be about  2 inches thick and stop a lot of the noise as most of the noise is higher than 400hz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXu61z8yiMc

stopping that is easier that stopping this 40 hz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXu61z8yiMc

note they (sonic electronix ) have a lot of frequency you can test.


yeah I found the paper on mdf/rubber/mdf/rubber


http://www.woodresearch.sk/wr/201904/16.pdf


notice the improvement they got with multi layer

mdf/rubber and glue

I did 5 layers

3 of 12.5mm mdf
2 of pond fabric
 I glued, clamped and screwed them together.

I was hoping to find the paper.

I was building enclosures 1994-2004  these guys expanded and tested a lot of the work I did with a few others in the Brooklyn navy yard with our speaker building group.


 this paper clearly shows that the sandwich method of

mdf-glue-Rubber-glue-mdf  works really well


'CONCLUSIONS
By using rubber-based composite materials, it is possible to create a sandwich structure with superior acoustic performance while retaining the same thickness of the single-layer density fibreboard for sound insulation performance. Using MDF face sheets with a rubber core increases the sound insulation at the resonant frequency and causes the coincidence frequency to move to higher frequencies, effectively inhibiting the anastomosis effect and making the coincidence valley shallower. Moreover, core materials with high damping performance corresponded to multi-layered composites with improved acoustic performance. As the thickness of the rubber layer increased, so too did the loss modulus of the composite. The weighted sound insulation of single-layer MDF was 28.0 dB, which increased to 37.4 dB for the wood damping composite material, increased by 25.1%. As the thickness of the rubber increased, the storage modulus and loss factor of the composite both increased accordingly. The greater the damping loss factor, the greater the energy loss, making the composite material more resistant to sound waves caused by stronger vibrations. Compared to the rubber samples, the multi-layered composites showed higher storage modulus and loss modulus values. Since the loss modulus is a measure of the energy dissipation, a higher loss modulus of the multi-layered composite denotes that more acoustic energy would be dissipated during sound wave propagation in the material. Therefore, the sound insulation ability of the composites can be enhanced by controlling the rubber thickness, keeping in mind that a good balance between the sound insulation ability and the mechanical properties is required. The density of rubber is not significant for the sound insulation performance of composite materials.'

source is above

We could use MDF inside, we have to build a second wall, it doesn't mean it needs to be outside the current wall, although technically, it would be easier to build outside.

Those pond fabrics seem like good sound insulators, they are high-density which is the most important element in soundproofing, will check to see if I can find them around, hopefully the price is reasonable.




source: https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/ae/ae-99.html#:~:text=Everyday%2C%20the%20sun%20beams%20to,available%20at%20the%20earth's%20surface.

1 BTU = 0.293 watts
so 10,560 BTU = 3,094 W per square foot
1 square meter = 10.76 squer foot
3,094 * 10.76 = 33,291w
1kw = 1000w
33,291w = 33.291kw per square meter.

ya, a lot of that is lost along the way, but really, 0.25mw is not a lot as far as ambient is concerned, have you ever walked next to a hotel or a large building and felt that it was "strangely warm" in the street? ya standing on the exhaust side of the HVAC or near the external ACs units will be too hot, but just by walking around, it would be hard to tell if the building is consuming 1mw or none just by the "feel of it".

0.25mw is a lot of "heat" in a closed place if the size is not too large, but as far as the outside it's too tiny to be noticeable.



what happens when you put 20 patio heaters inside the house and walk outside, are you still going to feel the heat? probably nothing much unless there is enough airflow forcing that heat to your direction, I have personal experience walking in and out of mining farms as large as 2MW, it's only warm at the exhaust side because heat is being pushed outside into that direction, walking around the other 3 walls you feel nothing.
 


I wouldn't be even attempting that in a crowded city, the nearest building is roughly 100m away.



We don't have the ACs in place yet, the noise is coming out the wall and more so from under the door, but sound travels in all directions so it goes through everything at different levels, there is at least a 20db drop between door open and close, but generally, it's not close to as quiet as we need it to be.

heat might not be as bad if you keep them in an open area, instead of in a tight closed space.

That's incorrect:
On the surface of the earth, it's less. Depending on your location and time of day, most of the time it will be much less. So 235 kW is really a lot.

Compare the 20 patio heaters

That solves all worries I was thinking of a small building in a crowded city.

That's hearing damage level.

Does the noise come through the walls of the building, or does it reach the outside through the airco system? Or both?

Soundproofing is hard as you are in a wet humid climate.

you can't use mdf it is not water resistant.

can you get sheets of pond fabric?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0964RTYPT/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?

it is pretty good at stopping sound.



__________________
!___!____!___!__!___


layer of rubber
ribs of 1 inch pvc
layer of rubber

or

layer of rubber
2 by 4 pressure treated wood
Layer of rubber

that 3 part wall will stop a lot of sound

I am not sure if you get pvc pipe

or if rot resistant wood is easy.

these strips would work
https://www.lowes.com/pd/PVC-EMB-1X2-1-1-2-8/5013353085

use these screws
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Tuftex-10-x-1-in-Tan-Galvanized-Self-Drilling-Roofing-Screws-100-Count/3018299


attach top sheet  and bottom sheet  to same pvc strip in the middle

it is water proof and very sound resistant.

On average there is 30kw worth of heat reaching from the sun for every 1 square meter on earth, the effect of that 235kw on the outside tempters is so negligible unless someone stands right in front of the external AC unit, they won't even notice that there is much heat being generated from the building.

Even with the normal setup of using only airflow, you would need to stand right in front of the exhaust fans to feel the heat, standing near the other sides or even leaning against the wall won't be enough to notice the heat, probably a little warmer to set next right next to the building during winter, but nothing much.

Furthermore, the building is isolated, the only problem is the noise, miners can be very noisy, I took a measurement of my farm running 200 S9s + 100 of a mixture between M30 and M20s, when the miners boot at start up the overall noise on the exhaust fan of the building reaches up to 110 db, that's as loud as a subway train, I went to the farm once in the winter around 11 pm it was very quiet in the area, I was able to hear the fans of a distance over 1000m (I made sure it the noise was coming from the farm).

Honestly, I am now more concerned about the noise than the cooling for this project, cooling will be solved by just adding more ACs, if 10 of them don't cut it, just power off or underclock some miners till we can add more ACs, the noise part is not something you can predict, it has to be a trial and error process until we reach desired noise levels.



No windows, just a door that isn't perfectly sealed, your point is valid, we want to seal the cold side as much as possible while trying to get away with not so much sealing on the hot side to allow air to escape, doesn't matter summer or winter the exhaust side of the room will always be hotter than the outside temp so we could use every little crack or just bad insulation, but then again, every little crack will allow the noise to escape, it is extremely difficult to balance the two aspects here, you want

1- low noise.
2- less ACs.
3- less spending.

if option B mentioned above works, the noise level could be low enough that might even allow us to make a few holes at the exhaust side so that more heat can dissipate, but then having to buy an inline fan for every miner, printing the shrouds, buying different expensive shelves that are big enough for the miner + fan could be way too expensive, it might be better to build a second wall, make things worse as far as heat is concerned, and then just add more ACs than initially planned.

It's like trying to win in competitive eating without having to eat too much  , not an easy task, I knew it wasn't going to be easy, I just didn't think it would be this difficult, so ya, going to take a lot of time and money for this to happen.

Thanks for your kind and quick reply. Sounds nice, congrats man and keep up the good profits

If it is sealed then are we forgetting about the input and output math about the energy here?
If it is sealed and the heat output that is getting released into the divided environment is more than the Air Conditioners capacity, then obviously it is going to be a big issue. For one reference purpose, it is evident that there will be war between the miners and AC units in either heating up or down the room environment.

However, I am also adding one more point about "how sealed the room is?" Is it a perfectly sealed room or it does have few cracks due to door hinges, windows etc? In a small room the pressure wont be much thus outer air can easily parse through these crack openings.

If so then it changes everything about that room. In summer hot air can easily take away the coldness with it. In cold it might have some positive effects. I am sure these details will help a lot when it comes to mining operation that will be run for virtually permeant.

my current farm earns 9-10k a month

my share is 20%

last month I cleared 1800 usd.

If noise is a problem for the outside, how about heat? You'll be emitting 175 + 60 = 235 kW. That's the equivalent of 20 of those things on full power:
Anyone walking by may be in for a surprise.

That would mean the other half of the heat has to flow through the walls. I'm not used to using BTUs, so I'd just keep everything in W. You produce 175kW, and have to remove 175kW. The efficiency (COP) of the airco will go up if the outside temperature is lower. Usually the COP is around 3-4, so when it's not too hot outside, you'll need 175/4kW for your airco. If it's hot outside, you'll need 175/3kW. That keeps the math much easier than bringing in BTUs.

Note that I have no practical experience whatsoever with running miners.

out of curiosity: how many people are you in the team and what was your invest for that farm? sounds nice, but also big and expensive :p

Also he has a lot of whatsminers.

their software can allow for shutdown or underclock really fast.

So I do have an interest in what he is going to do.

Off topic I found a new spot for mining.

I will be checking it out this week.

we may get 1200 amps at 240 watts.

Talking about two orders of magnitude, the difference between firing a pellet gun and 155mm gun in a room or nearly the sam thing as saying that my computer with its GPU it's having no problem running in a room without AC and I'm not bothered by it.

175kw is much by some standards but at the same time is outside the rounding error for others.

Back on topic, I too wonder how Mikey is doing with the room!
Might be difficult but as some say, If it can be done someone will be doing it sooner or later.


A tiny advantage Mikey has, since it's a closed room it means it can set a standard temperature and stop everything at the moment of a single fluctuation, he knows that if one fails there is no way the setup will keep working as intended so the moment one goes down he can shut down  the same amount of consumption. Far easier to implement and less of an issue compared to a server farm for which a 20% cut can be as bad as an 80% in some cases. The local logistic hub of my company doesn't even have that luxury, it's either black or white, and everything works or everything goes down till is repaired, we stop and go all offline data entries that need to be checked before being added when everything is up again.

Yep the more gear in a space the more likely something breaks.

Our setup is 2x 3 ton ac's lots of fans in and 2 fans out.

Side note, since Phil bumped this the other day one of the DCs we have server equipment / routers in sent out an email overnight that they have lost backup cooling in one of the suites.
They have n+2 cooling, so sometime in the last few hours they lost 2 units. Not sure what happened, the last email was they have repair coming but no ETA.

It was more of an advisory since as of now there is no effect on us. This has happened once before in a different location. But the point remains the same. As you get more and more units, the odds go up that sooner or later one of them will have an issue. Every once in a great while, 2 will have issues. So if you really have no wiggle room be prepared for this.

This is a multi story DC built with all kinds of other backup plans it's not a big deal, and because suite we are in is about 20% empty it means even less, but if it was at 100% packed to the walls it would be different.

-Dave

an 11 mega watt data center is quite different to a 175kwatt sealed room setup.


At Mikeywith how did this room end up doing for you.

My 150kwatt under vented partially ac'd room has been holding up for  the summer. We have had to power off some gear (20kwatts) from 1pm to 8pm but we are doing pretty good for the last 6 weeks.

Maybe 90% of top hashrate. I am looking forward to Sept and Oct we will be able to boost the hashrate on the gear to around 105%

Completely sealed is close minded.

My datacenter (not  mining) consumed about 11Mw give or take 24/7/365.

Developed an outside air system that blended cooler outside air into the filtered intakes of the AC units and opened dampers for escape. If it was a bit humid outside the AC would take care of it. Considerable savings especially in the winter months.

Side note: People mentioning mixing cold air into the hotside before the AC is just plain dumb, don't do that.

It depends on how big the room is and some solution works better base on location, I think working air cooling fan into the farm is better in some.cases, I am using my own farm to analyst this question though, I don't want to run a air conditioner unless there are now newest air conditioner that takes less power consumption, the best I can find here are 1.5HP Air Conditioners and man that's a lot for me.

You said your electricity Bill is very cheap? Then you can run anything without worries of high bills on electricity then, AC draws a lot of power and that makes me want to forever stay away from them.

@mikey I know why its hot 🥵 environment.

I have shifted units it is due to two really  stubborn people that don’t want to vent the area just a bit more.
and downclock just a bit more gear.

I am still running 15 L3s that I don’t want to run. burning 🥵 12kwatts to make about 15 usd a day.

I would have sold them a long time ago. But I am outvoted so they will run to the LTC ½ ing.

Couldn't find a similar manual on the AC, the distributor of said brand guaranteed that the BTUs labeled on the AC will be achieved as long as the outside temp is below 52c.

Anyway, looking at the specs you posted, you can clearly see that the AC  has the highest TC when the room is hot and the outside temp is cold, so the hotter the room the more the cooling capacity, and, the greater the difference between in and out temp also the greater the cooling is, which makes sense, and that's what I picture the farm to look like, always hot inside - warm to cool outside.


Thanks for your input Powell, do you recall the total power consumption of your farm vs BTUs?

For the humidity part, the place is very dry, there should be no issues with humidity at all.

As for the noise coming from the compressor /outside unit, it should be manageable, I checked a unit running and it was at 65 decibels at pretty much close to distance, noise levels will increase by 3 decibels every time the noise source is doubled, so 10 of them will output 75 decibels, that's a lot but still a lot less noise than a single miner doing that fan test, I doubt we will face issues with the noise coming from the ACs, I am more concerned about those Whatminers, since a single unit does 84 db when fans are at 100%, 50 of them will do close to 101 dB, I have exactly no way of knowing how much the insulation is going to reduce, but we kind of need the noise to be below 75 dB, could get away with a bit higher, but we will see.

@phill

There is a close to 10 degrees difference between the env temps of 192.168.1.232 and 192.168.1.233, there is something wrong there, can you try to swap them and see?

Years upon years ago when I had our farm (2014) and we were using about 140-150A @ 208v I had a calculation that took all of that formula and then even converted it to how many TONs of a/c I would need. I will say as a few others have posted outdoor units can/will be loud.

Fast forward to today at my personal home.
I have a ~50ft x 60ft x 20ft (roughly 3000 sq ft) shop/garage that was built around 4 years ago. It has vapor barriers under with the concrete, every bit of insulation that can be done (minus bay doors, which I may do soon but they are automatic rollups so always been hesitant), 2x 5 TON A/C units that are mounted from the ceiling to cool it down. I live southeast of Houston so I am closer to the Gulf of Mexico which means humidity is something I always have to fight. One thing as a user or two posted is depending on time of day where the sun is hitting the building there will be hot spots in different places and that can take a wicked hit to things.

Another thing though is humidity, and this is where I've had friends that own HVAC companies say can be a large issue, and this did come up with my mothers companies small data center (we are a reseller for IBM/DELL/Pure Storage/etc. etc. so we have a large amount of equipment to demo) that you still have to battle humidity. Last summer I did not take that into account in my personal shop, I was just using the AC's to help pull humidity out. I was mining Etherium in Minerdude/Octominer chassis with 3090s and I started to notice the heatsinks/fans/etc showing signs of dew on them and oxidizing things. I was in no way overpowering my AC's considering the heat produced from that was no issue for the amount of BTU's available from the AC. After Eth mining was done I was getting annoyed because leaving cardboard, etc became a problem. I ended up recently adding 20,000 CFM in fans (just 2x wall mounted 10,000 CFM fans to cycle the air) and it has helped a lot when the AC is running where as before even with everything sealed humidity was still not manageable. Though in the evening when things cool down and the AC isn't taking as much load. I am having to add a large de-humidifier (shows up Thursday) to hopefully be the final peace of the puzzle.

Maybe someone else can chime in on there being a problem with humidity because lets say you in theory could keep close to ambient, there is still large risk of failure to equipment at that point from humid air taking its tole on equipment fast.

Well the what's miners can down clock a lot.

with freq set to -10% and power set to 3000-3050

I went from 3350 watts on most units down to 2536-2910

So say 2700 on average meaning a savings of 650 x 6  = 3900 watts

With 50 units that is 32500 watts saved. That's 110500 btu.

With my 6 pieces we did

552 th vs 652 th a drop of 15.3% hash

16200 watts vs 20100 watts a 19.4% power drop

So if you play with lower freq you can easy peasy save 100k BTU with 50 units.

Going back to doing 10 ac it should cool at best 600k BTU drop that to 540k BTU

But the down clock drops you from 597K BTU to 497K BTU

So a cooling power of 540k and a heating power of 497K which is a 10% safety factor.
After playing with my small hot room since 2018 I know that 10% safety factor may be good most days.

Also you can simply shut mining units off.

As you see below in the screen shot  you would turn 192.168.1.232 off as it pulls the most power and runs the hottest

No, the efficiency actually changes:



TC is Capacity PI is power consumption.
It's a pain in the ass-protected pdf file, but I'm pretty sure even your model has the same kind of manual.
Again, look at the pipe length, this rating above is for 5m linear, and once you count elevation it's a mess.


It will bring the room temperature slowly up till it reaches the exhaust temperature at which point they will probably shut down themselves.

Let's look at it from the thermodynamics point of view as heat is just energy:

At one point you have one extra unit of produced heat in a unit of time, if this process goes continuously in a closed environment, after 1000 units of time it's 1000 extra units of heat. In a million units of time one million units of heat!
This will not stop at any point if we don't assume the equipment will melt itself because you're still feeding more heat in that room every second than you extract, 10C, 40C, 100C, 300C it's like blowing into a balloon, the heat has nowhere to go.

Of course, this is in a perfectly sealed environment, so there is heat escaping the room through the floor and the walls, but if we talk about 30KW extra there is no way you will reach an equilibrium before you melt everything!
Especially since you also want to soundproof this room which will add to insulation and make less heat able to escape through the walls.

Based on your story, the math calculation you made is correct. And in my opinion, there should be enough cooling capacity to maintain the mining farm in terms of temperature. Perhaps all that is needed is to adjust the ambient temperature or maybe the settings on the AC unit, which of course depends on the weather conditions.

I down clocked all my whatsminers.

I used -10%
I used 3050 watts

Its 93f today and the room is toasty

Whatsminers have environment/room temp sensor, located far from the hash board, on the upper part of the control board, and gives pretty accurate readings, those temps could be easily viewed with an API request, and then a command to reduce the power limit for the miner can be sent, shouldn't take much to have something like in place, I think AwesomeMiner already has a function to check the environment temp.

So it's either going to be an hour to two of coding my own script or reaching out to Patrick/AwesomeMiner to see if they have that in place, they usually implement most of the suggestions I give them (given that they make sense). so ya, long story short, that shouldn't be an issue.


The efficiency of an AC shouldn't change based on outside temps, if does 1k BTU, it does 1K BTU regardless, now let's forget for a moment about mining, and let's just picture an empty room with little BTUs.

Now let's recall how an AC actually function.?  the inside unit will suck room air in and passes it to the evaporator coil of the internal unit, so that it would come out colder, and that same "room air" finds its way to the evaporator coil (outside unit) where the compressor, refrigerant, and pressure do their magic to cool that same air.

The whole process can only do so much, most places I read say 10-12c below ambient air temp (remember the outside unit that does all that sits in ambient temp), so for the same room we are talking about, if the outside temp is 50c, and the goal is to keep room at 20c while feeding the ac 50c room temps is not going to happen, so this is where the BTU calcs come into play.

To bring  a 4m*4m*4m room temp down to 20c where the ambient temp is 50c you are going to need a larger AC than to cool the same room to 20c where ambient temp is 30c, you will need the AC to do more BTUs per hour, this also explains why cooling isn't done instantly, as it's a gradual process, for the same example, when the AC first starts with room temp is 50c, the AC will suck in 50c air, bring it down to 40c, when the whole room is 40c, it starts sucking 40c air and it comes out 30c, all of that needs to be done fast enough before the room gains more outside heat.

So, BTUs are not related to ambient temps, but the overall cooling is.

So now, we can simply conclude that if the outside temp is 20c, and you want your room to be 20c, there is exactly zero BTUs that need to be removed, now what happens when you start producing heat inside the room?

Instead of using a miner as an example, let's use another AC turned on heating mode, so you have two ACs of the same size, one is hot to cold another is cold to hot, what would be the room temp when ambient temp  20c? since both do the same BTUs, they should cancel one another the room temp will still be at ambient temp, no?

If that's true (which I believe it is), what happens when you bring in another AC of the same size that is set on heating mode, so now you have 2 hot vs 1 cold? you end up with 1 hot AC since the cold ac will cancel one hot ac, correct?

How hot do you think that one lonely hot ac will bring the room temperature to? 10c above ambient temp? the room now is 30c, 20c? the room now is 40c.

Now replace that AC with a miner that does the same BTUs, which brings us back to my initial statement, if the ambient temp is 20c and you are okay with temps going to as high as 40c inside, you probably don't have to match the exact BTUs of the miners.

I could be wrong, but would like to know, how?

Hmm, I'm a bit curious about this one since checking the manual on our farm (not mining, true farm oink oink) HVAC the rating in BTU stands on the amount of heat it can move from the inside to the outside.

So a perfect 1 000 BTU unit will be able to move out 1 000 BTU at 10C or 40C, but in your case if you produce 10,236 units of energy those have to be removed be it 10C or 40C outside, you need the exact same amount of heat to be taken out, what will change if the outside is 10C instead of 30C is the efficiency and consumption of the unit, again, this is if we talk about a sealed room that won't lose that much heat through the walls.

I might be mistaken on this but using only half of it will end up with the room temperature going up and up till it reaches the miner's exhaust levels since you have more energy being produced inside the room than you have taken out of it!


14k BTU in 48mc2 versus 600 in 180mc2 the ratio is all over the place.
And the most important thing is that if the outside is colder even by a few degrees the room will lose heat, so if this guy had a wall in the shade with 5 degrees below and you're exposed on all sides it will be even worse.

My take would be to start with half of it and see how it works out, you wouldn't be wasting money on equipment you won't be able to sue such as the miners or you won't overspend on air units and installments you won't be needed.

Oh, and reading about the sound, just went outside, 32C right now, our office units are Fujitsu whatsoever, and my phone screams 69DB next to one of the outside units, (we have them in the parking space, cause...well, management!) so you might want to check one of those live before buying it if the sound is a concern.

Was thinking about it, and I don't know what the cost would be, but I wonder if you could get hire a programmer to work with the whatsminer API and the temperature monitors you have in the room.

As the temp goes up it throttles down the miners, as the temp drops it throttles them back up.

Would probably require a lot of trial and error and obviously a PC or 2 in the room but it might actually generate more BTC. If it's a cooler day or as the ambient temperature drops at night the miners clock up a bit. But, during the heat of the day they slow down to keep the temperature manageable.

Just a thought.

https://www.whatsminer.com/file/WhatsminerAPI%20V2.0.3.pdf

-Dave

Exactly what I expect/worry about, the relationship between room temp and hardware consumption isn't going to be linear, this is also true for air cooling, i.e I know when I underclock M30s from 3400 down to 3200, they get a huge drop in temps, going from 3200 to 3000 is good but not as effective, so without air flow, this should be even more noticeable, hot spots will be there, a single miner going online/offline could have a large impact on the whole room, this will require a lot of trial and error until we understand  "the place's behavior under different conditions" just like how you understand yours now.


Ya I have got one, I get instant notifications for temps and humidity levels that I set, it's very helpful when you are not watching the farm, I think it's a must in every mining farm.

What we have found in the small dense under ventilated room is there are knees or cliffs of rocket 🚀 to the move temps.

Ie 95f outside temp all good inside the room hotspot 99f

but 99f outside temp runaway thermals room hotspot 117f

or 150kwatts 90f outside temp 94f in room
but add 6kwatts to 156kwatts and same room will shoot to 117f

you are going to find out your pivot points by under clocking say 2000 watts a unit.

good.

but 2200 watts everything will over heat like mad.

get a temp app for the phone set it to warn you then under clock ⏰.

I believe this has to do with the quality of the AC and its climate rating, the ones I am looking to get are T3 rated, which means they should be able to keep their rated cooling BTU capacity at temps up to 52c.



Please refer to my above explanation of how I 'think' outdoor heat will affect the room.


Yes, this is one thing I really like about Whatsminer, after all, we could just start with 5-6 AC units, and underclock all gears to 2,000w and see how things go from there, the ideal way of doing this would be to run all gears at full speed during the average weather, and run them underclocked during the 1-2 months of heat, instead of adding way too much cooling just to run cool for 1-2 months.

whatminers m30 can clock down to 3050 watts vs 3400. That saves 17500watts or 59500 BTU's in heat.

I wonder how much outdoor heat will affect the room.

If you down clock to 3050 watts you may be good.
If you do 10 ac on the cold and 1 piped to the hot.

you have 660,000 btu

and miners are dropped to 538,000 btu

660000x80% =528,000 btu.

So you have a 20% safety factor by adding 1 ac unit and clocking lower.

Flat out you need more cooling. Keep in mind the air conditioners are 60k BTU in a perfect world, the will likely be a little lower then that. AND keep in mind you will need some other networking equipment in the room that will generate a bit of heat. AND slip air conditioners also put out a little heat. (blower fan, electronics and so on 1 is not a big deal 10 will be putting out a couple of hundred watts) once again not much in the normal world but you are hitting up against the maximum cooling they can do as it is.

Either add 2 AC units or take out a few miners. OR be even safer and do both, a little less profit is better then: https://youtu.be/fxGgx3YCCAA?t=8

-Dave

So far all gear is good I showed you the whatsminers they are within spec.

My setup is close to what you have but not the same.

I can get some air in and some air out not enough but some.
And we do 36k+36k BTU of ac.

We are at 165kwatts and the room is smaller.

The small mixing action is okay so far.

You are going you be like this.

The larger room size will help you.

The dependence on all ac will mean you need 24/7/365 temp monitor.

I have these going to 4 phones and an ipad

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N17RWWV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PKWPKM2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?

They can't be piped by default, but with some ducting it could we could easily direct one or more ACs to blow air to the hot side of the room, sould not be too difficult to do.

Here is how thet look like https://www.daikinindia.com/products-services/floor-standing

They blow air from the bottom and blow at the top.

How did that affect the gear temps? It's hard to know if gear would prefer 80f intake and 105f out, vs 85f in and 95f out.

@stopmix, whatsminers would tune lower when temps go up, not much work needed to underclock them or shut them down when needed, but the cost of the setup will be close to 20k, slightly above, would rather size everything correctly since this will be one huge risk to test.

My plan is not to go full blast at first, so maybe just 1-2 ACs and the right number of miners accordingly، that should give us a good overview of how things will be on a larger scale.

The next issue we would face is noise, we need to soundproof the room as much as possible, also not sure how noisy a dozen ACs outdoor units will be.

This is going to be a very complicated project to say the least, which is why I am trying my best to be prepared for all scnerio, have to study everything, consulted a few HVAC folks and none of them had a clue of an operation of such type, they all know the math as we do, but none seemed to fully guaranteed it would work. 

Not that much if you have temperature monitoring and you set them to downclock or even shut down if it goes off the charts, but there will be a few inconveniences:

Reality tight math, one of the AC units to underdeliver or fail and you're overheating the room, quite a small one, 5 extra miners means 5 3k heaters going full power in a one-bedroom apartment with 30 Celsius outside. Not funny!

Second is the airflow, just as Phil said, it's not going to really work perfectly as it does on paper, you're going to have a hot spot that is going to be way hotter than the entire room opposite the AC units near the ceiling where heat will be essentially trapped in this setup, so I would have two ducts on each side going straight to the back with an end fan and press the hot air with a cold flow for extra airflow and circulation.

So unless the building really heats itself during the day to above what you said due to direct sun, no shade, or materials, it should not be a problem. But, to be honest not really a thing I would want to be in charge of it.
Oh yeah, I'm curious about the end result, unless, of course, it's doxing somebody.

can the cold air from the split be piped to the hot side.

so 10 splits all on cold side but pipe cold air on two to the hot side.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/new-cooling-setup-for-my-asic-room-5454122

last photo shows a stand a lone ac with two tubes piping air in.

your inside splits should have a cold ac air vent. if you tube two of them to the hot side it will mix the air.

your problem is very close but not exactly the same as what we had.

we got the cold aisle and hot aisle perfect after months of trying.

but the hot aisle was too hot 🥵. becasue we could not vent enough hot air out due to limited vent space.

so we not let some cold aisle bleed into the hot aisle.

so we were 80f cold 105f hot
with the partial mixing
we are 85f cold 95f hot

this is working very well.

you are going to have to do something like it.

your room is bigger then my room is

20long by 8wide by 20high.

some links for vents and fans as your fan idea may be good.

something like this to move some hot air to cold side.
https://www.amazon.com/MOUNTO-COMBO-Heavy-Cylinder-25-foot/dp/B078HQD8DD/ref=sr_1_5?


something like this to move cold air from one split to hot side

https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Insulated-Aluminum-Ducting-Ventilation/dp/B0BPKZ2FH7/ref=sr_1_8?

what they will do is even out the room

instead of 75 cold  105 🥵 hot 🥵

maybe 85 cold 95 hot.

with no venting or very little venting mixing cold and hot will be needed to some degree.

the exact degree I am not sure 🤔

I would love to see some photos when it is setup.

Room size is 10m*6m*3m / 32ft*19ft*9.8ft.

Each 60k btu AC pulls about 6kw worth of power, basically 1/3 of the miner's power.

Maybe a few fans sucking air from hot side back to the cold? I would imagine putting an AC in the hot side is going to melt it.

Hmmm how big is the room?

It is an interesting problem since the room is sealed  and there is no effort to do a true cold /hot set of aisles.

How much power do the ac units pull. You have a downclock option if too hot in the peak temps.

I allow some mixing of hot and cold aisles it actually is okay to mix the aisles a bit.

In your case you want the two aisles to mix because the room is sealed.

so if you have perfectly separated hot cold aisles the hot aisle will over heat.

worst case I see is you may need 1 split near hot aisle and space the m30s to let air mix.

bigger the room the better.

I am trying to calculate the cooling capacity needed to keep a mining farm running, with the following in mind.

- No intake/exhaust fans, the farm must be sealed and noise kept pretty low.
- No immersion cooling.
- No water cooling.
- Electricity is dirt cheap.

I understand there are better alternatives to cooling down a mining farm (I do that myself) but for this farm, there are no options, so now I am not exactly sure about the setup.

First, let's run some math.

50*M30s or a total of 175KW which is 597,000 BTUs per Hour.

This means a total of 597,000 AC BTU should keep the farm at an "ok" temp, at least on paper.

We have access to 60,000 BTU split AC which means if we place 10 of them, we get a total of  600,000 BTU and the miners should (in theory) run cool, the average ambient temp is 29C / 83F, go to 95 in some days, and down to 20C /68F on some other seasons.

I am pretty sure the math above is correct, but what could go wrong with such a setup?



Also, do you think we can get away with less cooling BTUs during the cold seasons?

So ACs blow in the direction of the miner's intake, cools the miner down, air comes out hot on the other side of the room, and eventually rises to find it's way back to the AC intake to come out cold again, it's obvious that the exhaust space of the miner will always be a lot hotter, contrary to how data centers are designed where they suck the hot air and send it back to the cooling units, but that kind of set up will not be easy/cheap to implement.

Open to all thoughts, especially from those who ran some miners on ACs only.