Topic: Kill the Politics forum - page 6. (Read 19963 times)
Oh the irony, this thread is now being hijacked with exactly the kind of troll-inviting discussion that it was complaining about
Anarchists are mostly of average intelligence, have achieved nothing of significance, but have compulsions about every other living being in the world being 'cattle' or 'masses'.
If you liked anarchy or anarcho-capitalism so much as to make it a reality, then you would already be in Somalia or Afghanistan where no government has any real influence in anything, including taxation.
Then you'd have to realize that all power instantly falls in the hands of the clan or warlord with the most firearms and ammunition so it doesn't really fit your utopia & you get nervous when you realize you need protection in numbers or you will be exploited or killed.
There. You *need* other people and organization to survive, unless you're planning to be a self-sustaining hermit on the North Pole.
Even then, you're fucked if you need medical care/run out of food/get stuck in 20ft of snow.
If you liked anarchy or anarcho-capitalism so much as to make it a reality, then you would already be in Somalia or Afghanistan where no government has any real influence in anything, including taxation.
Then you'd have to realize that all power instantly falls in the hands of the clan or warlord with the most firearms and ammunition so it doesn't really fit your utopia & you get nervous when you realize you need protection in numbers or you will be exploited or killed.
There. You *need* other people and organization to survive, unless you're planning to be a self-sustaining hermit on the North Pole.
Even then, you're fucked if you need medical care/run out of food/get stuck in 20ft of snow.
*dons MOPP gear*
*backs out of thread, slowly*
Anarchists are mostly of average intelligence, have achieved nothing of significance, but have compulsions about every other living being in the world being 'cattle' or 'masses'.
Citation needed.
If you liked anarchy or anarcho-capitalism so much as to make it a reality, then you would already be in Somalia or Afghanistan where no government has any real influence in anything, including taxation.
A failed state is not the same as no state.
You *need* other people and organization to survive.
I'm not against organization. I'm against aggression. If you think that you need to use aggression against others to protect them from aggression, you need to reevaluate your logic.
If you have sex with 1,001 people and 1,000 consent but 1 does not, you're a rapist. If you take money from 1,001 people and 1,000 consent but 1 does not, you're a thief.
You accuse anarchists of being Utopians but it's you that is being unrealistic if you really think that people can't govern themselves but somehow will be able to govern others.
Anarchists are mostly of average intelligence, have achieved nothing of significance, but have compulsions about every other living being in the world being 'cattle' or 'masses'.
If you liked anarchy or anarcho-capitalism so much as to make it a reality, then you would already be in Somalia or Afghanistan where no government has any real influence in anything, including taxation.
Then you'd have to realize that all power instantly falls in the hands of the clan or warlord with the most firearms and ammunition so it doesn't really fit your utopia & you get nervous when you realize you need protection in numbers or you will be exploited or killed.
There. You *need* other people and organization to survive, unless you're planning to be a self-sustaining hermit on the North Pole.
Even then, you're fucked if you need medical care/run out of food/get stuck in 20ft of snow.
If you liked anarchy or anarcho-capitalism so much as to make it a reality, then you would already be in Somalia or Afghanistan where no government has any real influence in anything, including taxation.
Then you'd have to realize that all power instantly falls in the hands of the clan or warlord with the most firearms and ammunition so it doesn't really fit your utopia & you get nervous when you realize you need protection in numbers or you will be exploited or killed.
There. You *need* other people and organization to survive, unless you're planning to be a self-sustaining hermit on the North Pole.
Even then, you're fucked if you need medical care/run out of food/get stuck in 20ft of snow.
What kind of crazy business owner is going to link their business to a site and brand that advocates tax evasion and the overthrow of the government?
First of all, I would never advocate the breaking the law. I advocate abolishing it. Second of all, overthrowing governments is what the United States of America was founded on. It's pretty amazing to me how one can be considered a "radical" or "extremist" just by advocating values that this country is based on. Have you really never heard of the American Revolution or read the Declaration of Independence?
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
We overthrew the colonial English government and created a new government based on our own ideals. Somehow people should be freaked out when we suggest that it might be time to do that again? It's depressing that we've grown so far apart from our roots. The words in bold mean that we grant authority to the government, not the other way around, and if we don't like what they do with the authority we give them, it's our right to revoke it.
What I am mildly amused by is this peculiar territorial response in a virtual medium.
This is ourfatherland subforum, historically we lived here like we like and we shall not move to a different plot of land new medium, even if it is greener richer, better connected and has blackjack and hookers has more forgiving moderation, more welcoming to our viewpoints, etc.
We shall stand our ground! Close the ranks!
It's remarkably common, and yet it is a human response that utterly baffles me...
This is our
We shall stand our ground! Close the ranks!
It's remarkably common, and yet it is a human response that utterly baffles me...
Awww did I hurt your fewwwings? I'm sorry, dear.
I am patron...of the "it's the 21st century I'm sorry I'm not the most PC." Can't help if I use the superlatives with those who seem like they need them.
Call me a dick, or a prick, or a mofo (with or without uplift party plan). Rolls of my non-virtual shoulders....because I try not to get insulted by darkened pixels.
I am patron...of the "it's the 21st century I'm sorry I'm not the most PC." Can't help if I use the superlatives with those who seem like they need them.
Call me a dick, or a prick, or a mofo (with or without uplift party plan). Rolls of my non-virtual shoulders....because I try not to get insulted by darkened pixels.
Who's offended? Or insulted? It was hilarious. Still didn't top Whorish Oriental Despot though
Lemonginger. Not you...cheerio from lectern.
I'd agree...my once-over just gives levity to (all politics or nothing). At least you have a sense of humor...like a cat who's caught a mouse, after eating a nice medium ribeye.
Awww did I hurt your fewwwings? I'm sorry, dear.
I am patron...of the "it's the 21st century I'm sorry I'm not the most PC." Can't help if I use the superlatives with those who seem like they need them.
Call me a dick, or a prick, or a mofo (with or without uplift party plan). Rolls of my non-virtual shoulders....because I try not to get insulted by darkened pixels.
I am patron...of the "it's the 21st century I'm sorry I'm not the most PC." Can't help if I use the superlatives with those who seem like they need them.
Call me a dick, or a prick, or a mofo (with or without uplift party plan). Rolls of my non-virtual shoulders....because I try not to get insulted by darkened pixels.
Who's offended? Or insulted? It was hilarious. Still didn't top Whorish Oriental Despot though
Awww did I hurt your fewwwings? I'm sorry, dear.
I am patron...of the "it's the 21st century I'm sorry I'm not the most PC." Can't help if I use the superlatives with those who seem like they need them.
Call me a dick, or a prick, or a mofo (with or without uplift party plan). Rolls of my non-virtual shoulders....because I try not to get insulted by darkened pixels.
Still...the only retort is ad hominem. That's political :-)
I am patron...of the "it's the 21st century I'm sorry I'm not the most PC." Can't help if I use the superlatives with those who seem like they need them.
Call me a dick, or a prick, or a mofo (with or without uplift party plan). Rolls of my non-virtual shoulders....because I try not to get insulted by darkened pixels.
Still...the only retort is ad hominem. That's political :-)
A lot longer than that, dear. Given the rash generalization of the academics, seems like you might not know enough of them. Bet you they swing both ways, if not more.
Did you really just bust out a "dear"? Patronizing ass.
"Yes, and no" my good chap...
If you read that entire post in a Michael Caine voice it's awesome.
I seem to have lost my snuff box.
A lot longer than that, dear. Given the rash generalization of the academics, seems like you might not know enough of them. Bet you they swing both ways, if not more.
Did you really just bust out a "dear"? Patronizing ass.
And it's yet another to over-post in an attempt to sound "useful."
That's kind of the point- do you want it to stay theoretical?
Yes, and no.
The Bitcoin politicals seem divided into two camps, the hardcore academics who understand the underpinnings as well as the history of their ideology, and the "You're not the boss of me!" "I don't need you, I don't need ANYONE!" crowd who just likes to have a label to make teenage angst seem more credible.
That's your perspective of who the "bitcoin politicals" are. Seems subjective (is it just black/white, really?).
The serious, academic political types here realize that these "lofty, theoretical discussions" have been going on for a hundred and fifty some-odd years with little to show for it and what is needed at this point is not more talk or navel gazing- but credible proof. They reasonably think that a successful Bitcoin simply by nature of how it will function, illustrates their beliefs better than any book or explanation.
A lot longer than that, dear. Given the rash generalization of the academics, seems like you might not know enough of them. Bet you they swing both ways, if not more.
It's one thing to point to your books and say a structure is unnecessary, it's another to have a successful system in place that proves it so.
Collaborative dialogue is always useful and necessary, with or without any real implementation. Things change, sometimes too fast for anyone to do something else about it.
A forum is a motley assortment of crazy characters, only some of which fall under any definition.
Political musings related to bitcoin are both vital and extraneous. Innnnnnnn the end, just keep the little section for politics, and if you feel it's not enough, then you do more about it. If you feel it's too much ignore.
it sucks that lofty, theoretical discussions disturb some people.
That's kind of the point- do you want it to stay theoretical?
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The Bitcoin politicals seem divided into two camps, the hardcore academics who understand the underpinnings as well as the history of their ideology, and the "You're not the boss of me!" "I don't need you, I don't need ANYONE!" crowd who just likes to have a label to make teenage angst seem more credible.
Quote
The serious, academic political types here realize that these "lofty, theoretical discussions" have been going on for a hundred and fifty some-odd years with little to show for it and what is needed at this point is not more talk or navel gazing- but credible proof. They reasonably think that a successful Bitcoin simply by nature of how it will function, illustrates their beliefs better than any book or explanation.
Quote
It's one thing to point to your books and say a structure is unnecessary, it's another to have a successful system in place that proves it so.
Collaborative dialogue is always useful and necessary, with or without any real implementation. Things change, sometimes too fast for anyone to do something else about it.
A forum is a motley assortment of crazy characters, only some of which fall under any definition.
Political musings related to bitcoin are both vital and extraneous. Innnnnnnn the end, just keep the little section for politics, and if you feel it's not enough, then you do more about it. If you feel it's too much ignore.
it sucks that lofty, theoretical discussions disturb some people.
That's kind of the point- do you want it to stay theoretical?
The Bitcoin politicals seem divided into two camps, the hardcore academics who understand the underpinnings as well as the history of their ideology, and the "You're not the boss of me!" "I don't need you, I don't need ANYONE!" crowd who just likes to have a label to make teenage angst seem more credible.
The serious, academic political types here realize that these "lofty, theoretical discussions" have been going on for a hundred and fifty some-odd years with little to show for it and what is needed at this point is not more talk or navel gazing- but credible proof. They reasonably think that a successful Bitcoin simply by nature of how it will function, illustrates their beliefs better than any book or explanation.
It's one thing to point to your books and say a structure is unnecessary, it's another to have a successful system in place that proves it so.
Leave it all alone...it sucks that lofty, theoretical discussions disturb some people.
1) Rename Bitcoin Discussion to Bitcoin News.
2) Merge Technical Support and Newbies forums.
3) Delete Economics, Politics and Off-Topic.
4) Add a Security subforum.
5) Replicate the exact same format on all the language subforums.
6) Add a Merchants subforum, for merchant help in implementing bitcoin payments (I think it's good to keep this separated from general client technical support, as it will be easier to find things)2) Merge Technical Support and Newbies forums.
3) Delete Economics, Politics and Off-Topic.
4) Add a Security subforum.
5) Replicate the exact same format on all the language subforums.
Elimination of Econ subforum is totally uncalled for.
Anyways, I'd like to get a bit of official position on this - if I do implement exactly similar board with exactly similar software, will bitcoin.org administration kindly assist me in drawing the politics and social issues discussion, as well as discussion of legality of various questionable bitcoin goods, towards that forum of mine?
Pretty please
Anyways, I'd like to get a bit of official position on this - if I do implement exactly similar board with exactly similar software, will bitcoin.org administration kindly assist me in drawing the politics and social issues discussion, as well as discussion of legality of various questionable bitcoin goods, towards that forum of mine?
Pretty please
Jessy Kang is right on. There are perhaps four useful parts of the forum.
1) Dissemination of news.
2) Discussion of Project Development [Development]
3) Answering users/vendors questions about bitcoin [newbies forum maybe renamed to users forum to avoid being pejorative]
4) Advertising bitcoin services and archiving feedback from users who have utilized the service or have questions about the service. [Marketplace]
1) Dissemination of news.
2) Discussion of Project Development [Development]
3) Answering users/vendors questions about bitcoin [newbies forum maybe renamed to users forum to avoid being pejorative]
4) Advertising bitcoin services and archiving feedback from users who have utilized the service or have questions about the service. [Marketplace]
+1, but there are a few other forums that are useful like mining and trading discussion.
Personally I would make the following changes:
1) Rename Bitcoin Discussion to Bitcoin News.
2) Merge Technical Support and Newbies forums.
3) Delete Economics, Politics and Off-Topic.
4) Add a Security subforum.
5) Replicate the exact same format on all the language subforums.
Cool, got my stalker chicks on chat- learning all about "WHOIS" LOL
Doesn't look like it. Satoshi registered in Aug-2008 with anonymousspeech.com- but hosted with value-domain.com. Which is a pretty damn Japanese company for a guy that otherwise did not come off as Japanese LOL.
Anywayhosting and registration stayed in Japan until 18-May-2011 when someone moved it to that Finnish Company.
So as recently as a month ago, someone had control over the domain name, and so is the individual with de facto control over Bitcoin.org and it's forum. Probably Thermos still hairsplitting.
Ahh, ok "slicehost.com" still in the US though. Seems ill advised.
Yeah, when you dig though IRC and the old forum logs, what gets you about Satoshi and the team is how workman like they are- no "Helter Skelter man- this is going to change EVERYTHING". They were just putting an immense number of hours in crafting an incredibly elegant tool- with almost no interest in the implications until fairly recently. Even then- not really from the developers, they just seem to want it to be "right". I have immense respect for them after sifting though all that conversation mixed with incomprehensible data.
One of the reasons I think that the forum is most likely under the control of a single individual with his own agenda rather than the Dev team as a whole- because as a whole they just do NOT come off as asshats in any block of posts I can find. Bunch of watchmakers, don't understand a word of what they are saying and that's exactly what should be in the Bitcoin.org forum IMHO.
It appears that Louhi networks is a provider that provides anonymous domain registrations, based in Finland. The question indeed is who controls it. Probably, that's still Satoshi.
Doesn't look like it. Satoshi registered in Aug-2008 with anonymousspeech.com- but hosted with value-domain.com. Which is a pretty damn Japanese company for a guy that otherwise did not come off as Japanese LOL.
Anyway
So as recently as a month ago, someone had control over the domain name, and so is the individual with de facto control over Bitcoin.org and it's forum. Probably Thermos still hairsplitting.
www.bitcoin.org is hosted on Sourceforge , however forum.bitcoin.org is hosted on a VPS operated by sirius.
Ahh, ok "slicehost.com" still in the US though. Seems ill advised.
IMO, the dev team is pretty transparent. You could see who contributes to the client on either github or sourceforge. However, the dev team and the forum team have almost completely diverged. The dev team is mostly active on the mailing list and sometimes IRC.
Yeah, when you dig though IRC and the old forum logs, what gets you about Satoshi and the team is how workman like they are- no "Helter Skelter man- this is going to change EVERYTHING". They were just putting an immense number of hours in crafting an incredibly elegant tool- with almost no interest in the implications until fairly recently. Even then- not really from the developers, they just seem to want it to be "right". I have immense respect for them after sifting though all that conversation mixed with incomprehensible data.
One of the reasons I think that the forum is most likely under the control of a single individual with his own agenda rather than the Dev team as a whole- because as a whole they just do NOT come off as asshats in any block of posts I can find. Bunch of watchmakers, don't understand a word of what they are saying and that's exactly what should be in the Bitcoin.org forum IMHO.
It will take Bitcoin many years to reach the same level of maturity as the listed open source projects. Feel free to contribute towards the creation of a Bitcoin Foundation ;-) If no one does, then it just won't happen and a Bitcoin Foundation with a major budget would be a good thing in my opinion.
Yeah, we need to raise thousands of dollars for a Foundation for a forum script install LOL.
Moving right along...Sirius owns the server. Gavin and I have access to the server.
*confused*
I'm told that Bitcoin.org is hosted on a Sourceforge virtual server. Seems unlikely Sirus owns Sourceforge. The sourceforge project is owned by Satoshi and GA: http://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?group_id=244765 ... So one of them could pull/replace the link to the forum from the main page any time, without even touching the domain.
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Far from clear, there is a distinct lack of transparency as to the operational structure of the Dev team. I can understand the desire for privacy- but that does mean that the roles of each player have to be concealed from the community. Simply anonymity should suffice.
IMO, the dev team is pretty transparent. You could see who contributes to the client on either github or sourceforge. However, the dev team and the forum team have almost completely diverged. The dev team is mostly active on the mailing list and sometimes IRC.Quote
Can some mod put "Whorish Oriental Despot" on my profile instead of "Jr. Member"? It has a nice ring to it. 
Haha, don't forget "intellectual" 
Yea the politics forum was probably a mistake to add to a fledgling economic proving ground, but hey we all make mistakes. I think the site wouldn't be complete without some downright dirty free-speechering! It'd be hard not to be completely blindsided by the whirlwind of conflicted and contradictory statements generated by the postmodern american culture; anyone could get caught up init! For the most part though I think anyone who could consider putting their money in a place where trojans pose a bigger threat than bank robbers are more than capable of taking bitcoin seriously regardless of a few political musings. I'll admit it would be nice to see some diversity in op every once in a while. Maybe we should separate? See other people?
The political forum and everything else/
Would certainly make the whole movement seem more professional
The political forum and everything else/
Would certainly make the whole movement seem more professional
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