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forevernoob

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Quote from: eleuthria on March 22, 2014, 05:39:22 PM

Multipools aren't killing coins (directly). They're killing the profitability of all the shitcoins that exist. Nobody is bothering to pump & dump most coins anymore because any attempt to do so is met by a massive amount of mining power shifting to that coin and immediately dumping 100% of the newly mined coins. Pump & Dumps are only profitable if you can fool enough idiots to bring the average bid price higher than your average price per coin bought during the pump up period. With multipools, that just doesn't happen because they will dump coins to the highest bidder within an hour of the pump.

As a result, multipools are going to be fading away pretty fast. The profitability is shrinking rapidly in comparison to straight DOGE mining (and if that fails, straight LTC mining). They are a dying breed because pretty soon there won't be enough coins left for multipools to bother with.

KGW/DigiShield/whatever does nothing to prevent multipools. It actually *helps* multipools because it means those coins will drop in difficulty quickly, returning them back into their coin rotation. They prevent the coins from literally *dying* due to multipools, but their profitability is gone regardless.

What you say is true but that only applies if you sell the coins immediately. If you choose your spots it can be more profitable than straight DOGE mining.

Also dying coins are not a problem. If I understand you correctly you think that straight DOGE & LTC mining will still be profitable in the future?
If so whats stopping multipools to mine only DOGE & LTC? Even though it's just two coins the "profitability switcher" may still be applied.

Biggen

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Quote from: eleuthria on March 22, 2014, 05:39:22 PM

Multipools aren't killing coins (directly). They're killing the profitability of all the shitcoins that exist. Nobody is bothering to pump & dump most coins anymore because any attempt to do so is met by a massive amount of mining power shifting to that coin and immediately dumping 100% of the newly mined coins. Pump & Dumps are only profitable if you can fool enough idiots to bring the average bid price higher than your average price per coin bought during the pump up period. With multipools, that just doesn't happen because they will dump coins to the highest bidder within an hour of the pump.

As a result, multipools are going to be fading away pretty fast. The profitability is shrinking rapidly in comparison to straight DOGE mining (and if that fails, straight LTC mining). They are a dying breed because pretty soon there won't be enough coins left for multipools to bother with.

KGW/DigiShield/whatever does nothing to prevent multipools. It actually *helps* multipools because it means those coins will drop in difficulty quickly, returning them back into their coin rotation. They prevent the coins from literally *dying* due to multipools, but their profitability is gone regardless.

Better explanation than I could come up with, Eleuthria. Thanks for that.

This gentlemen runs ScryptGuild so he has an intricate knowledge of how multipools work in the first place.

eleuthria

legendary

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Multipools aren't killing coins (directly). They're killing the profitability of all the shitcoins that exist. Nobody is bothering to pump & dump most coins anymore because any attempt to do so is met by a massive amount of mining power shifting to that coin and immediately dumping 100% of the newly mined coins. Pump & Dumps are only profitable if you can fool enough idiots to bring the average bid price higher than your average price per coin bought during the pump up period. With multipools, that just doesn't happen because they will dump coins to the highest bidder within an hour of the pump.

As a result, multipools are going to be fading away pretty fast. The profitability is shrinking rapidly in comparison to straight DOGE mining (and if that fails, straight LTC mining). They are a dying breed because pretty soon there won't be enough coins left for multipools to bother with.

KGW/DigiShield/whatever does nothing to prevent multipools. It actually *helps* multipools because it means those coins will drop in difficulty quickly, returning them back into their coin rotation. They prevent the coins from literally *dying* due to multipools, but their profitability is gone regardless.

forevernoob

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Quote from: Biggen on March 22, 2014, 03:46:51 PM

Always been like what? KGW and DigiShield are brand new. Coin devs implementing those techs prevent multipools from mining them (or at the very least make it very difficult). Also just because new multipools are still popping up doesnt mean anything. There a plenty of people that make it to the party late in every business venture. In fact, its been my experience that by the time an idea catches onto the masses, its too late!

I never said individuals couldnt pump and dump. But if you think you can "set and forget" your mining rig on a coin switcher and expect great results like we use to, you are mistaking.

Not great results maybe but at least profitable with the right equipment. Wouldn't you agree? Or do you think it will crash and burn completely?

What I meant was that alt coin creators have always been negative toward Multipools. And the problems you described in your post have occurred when new coins have been released quite often.
Theses new techs are to try and stop the bad things that Multipools cause.
Not stop them completely if I understand it correctly.

Biggen

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Quote from: forevernoob on March 22, 2014, 03:04:22 PM

It has always been like that. Of course Multipools are in some ways bad for the alt coin community.
But just because some coins implement DigiShield and other techniques doesnte't mean people can't pump & dump.

IMO, this doesn't mean that Multipools are dying. As of late there has been a lot of new Multipools poping up.
I will keep mining alts as long as it's profitable. And in some ways it's much like bitcoin mining you need to get in the hash game fast or you will lose.

Always been like what? KGW and DigiShield are brand new. Coin devs implementing those techs prevent multipools from mining them (or at the very least make it very difficult). Also just because new multipools are still popping up doesnt mean anything. There a plenty of people that make it to the party late in every business venture. In fact, its been my experience that by the time an idea catches onto the masses, its too late!

I never said individuals couldnt pump and dump. But if you think you can "set and forget" your mining rig on a coin switcher and expect great results like we use to, you are mistaking.

forevernoob

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Quote from: Biggen on March 22, 2014, 06:40:23 AM

Multipools have a detrimental impact on smaller coins when they shift over to them to beginning mining. They can easily fork chains of smaller coins when they induce their massive hashrate. Secondly, they can kill the market for these same coins by dumping millions of coins on the market in an attempt to "pump and dump" so that they can move onto the next coin. This causes a massive deflation in the coins price.

Coin devs are recognizing this and have begun implementing KGW and DigiShield like variants. This prohibits the multipools from staying on the coin for very long as they diff rises sharply once they arrive.

It has always been like that. Of course Multipools are in some ways bad for the alt coin community.
But just because some coins implement DigiShield and other techniques doesn't mean people can't pump & dump.

IMO, this doesn't mean that Multipools are dying. As of late there has been a lot of new Multipools poping up.
I will keep mining alts as long as it's profitable. And in some ways it's much like bitcoin mining you need to get in the hash game fast or you will lose.

Biggen

full member

Activity: 160

Merit: 100

Multipools have a detrimental impact on smaller coins when they shift over to them to beginning mining. They can easily fork chains of smaller coins when they induce their massive hashrate. Secondly, they can kill the market for these same coins by dumping millions of coins on the market in an attempt to "pump and dump" so that they can move onto the next coin. This causes a massive deflation in the coins price.

Coin devs are recognizing this and have begun implementing KGW and DigiShield like variants. This prohibits the multipools from staying on the coin for very long as they diff rises sharply once they arrive.

Dagger75

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Quote from: forevernoob on March 21, 2014, 12:10:35 PM

Quote from: Biggen on March 21, 2014, 09:28:19 AM

1. Yes - but profits switchers are a dying breed.
2. Gridseeds are already out. As to when the rest will be out I believe John Caramack put its best. When its done!

What do you mean by "dying breed"? Please elaborate.

am interested in this too since I don't think Alts are able to handle the hashpower and pure greed of multipools any longer. They can damage a potential game-changing Alt before it has had a chance to shine. Most Companies take Months/Years to get themselves into position to have any effect in their field but in Crypto if a Coin gets popular then the Multipools hash it into extinction in a matter of days. I Don't want to get into Algo changes and whatnot but am very curious on the posters reasoning that they are a "Dying breed".

Thanks

forevernoob

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Activity: 687

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Quote from: Biggen on March 21, 2014, 09:28:19 AM

1. Yes - but profits switchers are a dying breed.
2. Gridseeds are already out. As to when the rest will be out I believe John Caramack put its best. When its done!

What do you mean by "dying breed"? Please elaborate.

Biggen

full member

Activity: 160

Merit: 100

1. Yes - but profits switchers are a dying breed.
2. Gridseeds are already out. As to when the rest will be out I believe John Caramack put its best. When its done!

Uniphase21

newbie

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Can anyone tell me if the KNC Titan script miner will work in wafflepool, coinshift etc...?

Also does anyone else have a script miner coming out sooner?

Topic: KNC Titan (Read 1353 times)