Topic: KNCMINER trying to screw us one last time! (Read 4020 times)

Well, you guys are most welcome to join the (current) lawsuit that I wrote about...

Nor should you. It is time these companies are held accountable for their actions!

I just requested a refund after RMA, and still broken. I've also asked them literally 5-6 times for refund, even before shipping on correct date. I've had it honestly. If they don't refund, it's lawsuit at this point.

I'm not letting them get away with this.

This is definitively interesting, for they often forced costumers to accept payments in Bitcoin by withholding payments in USD...

After some mails exchanges, they finally accepted to refund the amount invoiced.


Logic wins finally, I really hope the people waiting for their never-coming bonus Titan will find a acceptable agreement with Knc
Good luck to you all

If that's of any help: My company paid them in fiat, but they paid back in BTC. So obviously, they don't stick to their policy all the times...

A lot of what KNC has been doing lately is (IMHO) outright fraud - but since my opinion, by itself, does not mean much... I contacted the lawyers

The main problem in modern times seems to be large companies committing "crimes" because they know the victims don't really have the funds / time etc to defend themselves. And even if they do defend themselves and win, its still cheaper than what they had promised so they write it under the "cost of doing business".

On previous refunds for Bitcoin Miners KNC choose to pay back the amount written on the invoice.
If they now choose to do this differently, it looks to me not only as unserious business, but systematic fraud.

Interpreting the law the way the business can choose what to refund, any business could offer a "dream" product. Then wait for payments in other currencies. And some months later, compare the exchange rates and decide which currency to refund - whichever is worth less.

Yep, that sucks and unfortunately your's is not the only case that this has happened to. I have heard of others getting the same emails, as far as I know the lawyers are looking into it and will probably start a separate suit for it... but since this is outside the scope of the current suit I think you will have to write to them yourself and you may, or may not, get an answer.

The reason I say may or may not is, a while back I had a problem but nearly all the lawyers I approached would not give me advice as I was not a client...

Hi
I know this thread is for people who chose the Titan as the bonus machine, but as a mini-titan buyer I have to tell you that the same kind of crazy proposal was made to us.
The price for a mini-titan was $3,795. I paid with 418 LTC end of June 2014.
No news until this email (also the 31 of March):


As noticed by Unacceptable, A Neptune can be found around $1,000 so I wanted to opt for the refund. But when asking about the amount this was the answer:


So they don’t want to refund in crypto currency the equivalent of the amount of the purchase in dollar (based on the exchange price at the time of refund) but well the amount of crypto-currency originally spent for this purchase.

Question for your lawyers:
I paid a $3,795 invoice (with 418 LTC) as a professional (with EU VAT nr).  Knc wants to refund me something like $580 (at current LTC/USD rate). Is it possible that they respect the law like said in this last answer?

Article on CCN regarding this class action suit: 

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-company-kncminer-facing-three-class-action-lawsuits/

CCN have also kindly linked to the new website that I posted earlier! 

What is "KNCWallet" app? Never heard of it 

Why did KNCwallet App update today when it says its obsolete and to find another wallet..... suspicious !!!!!  So I Deleted it!!!!

Bought the domain:
knc-kncminer-titan-lawsuit.org

and hosting for it, a small preview of whats to come is online 

if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to tell me.

Cheers and have a good weekend!

It may just be a 'former employee' kinda thing....they are going to run all from the data hall in Iceland..which means they can downsize all the rest ..no need for shipping/sales/customer service/repair techs ...etc (nor knc forums anymore nor a link on their page to firmware before the Neptune) etc etc..ie they are cleaning house

essentially unless you want to move from Sweden to Iceland...and maybe be one of the few techs there on the IPO data hall the whole place is being shut down in Sweden is my guess

that also is my view on why they suddenly said the folk who got 200mh 2nd batch mini-titans got refunded and the folks who asked for instead of bonus titans instead of bonus neptunes as they were promised and were told there
were 'tech issues' and could not get them..we will now that you are last in line send you a bonus neppie 2 months late
(even thou they probably just got done shipping the last of the 2nd batch 400mh units w/o tech issues)

some bean counter probably figured out that keeping all the staff on an extra 3 weeks to a month to get that stuff out it was way way cheaper to just to pay back the mini-titan 200mh
2nd batch folks and probably ship a used neppie as your 'free bonus' for the supposed its ok we will send you a bonus titan ..that some were promised.... with a lump it or leave it

anyway its a guess....but they are cheap bastards...it would seem to be a good guess imho

Someone would probably take you up on your "project" if you put up a bounty in BTC

On a related note, since I have been contacted by different people after making this thread, a little birdie has told me that KNC is not operating so much from their old address... there is either a skeleton staff there or none at all, they have quietly shifted offices to a more secluded place - guessing, I would say one of the precautions after cheating soooo many people and not knowing who is going to pay them a "visit" with "ill intentions" in mind.

Not confirmed and I can't post the address of course.

If someone happens to hang around the KnC-offices and happens to have a camera and happens to take pictures going into the offices... I'd be interested in them...

Dude, I drank it as well. Other than my 2 neps I had ordered a Titan batch one as well...



Thanks! Can always use more luck in a lawsuit
Yep, the forums... but you know what they say about hindsight

considering KNC is offering 3 BTC for these bonus titan's vs a free neppie....I think I'd probably consider the lawyers myself ....but then again I'm on the sidelines did not get a neppie nor a batch 2 titan ...orig titan order (yeah yeah i drank the knc kool aid back in the day..)

and I think the lawyers have the upfront fee...then again I'd be mad as hell....but I mean really ....by choosing the bonus titan instead of neptune you lost 2 or 3 months
from at least conceivably getting a bonus neppie when it kinda/sorta/maybe could mine more then 3 BTC for crying out loud

me I tried contacting these law firms 3x about Titan (regular 1st batch) never got a reply...probably because mine shipped out 5 months ago.....the neppies have a better
case in that knc OBVIOUSLY built their data hall up rather then ship these units...and of course bonus stuff was way late and lame an also obvious stall..so i guess i get it

whatever just glad i went as a biz due to the bank error at least is is looking like I'll knock my 10,131.80 unit down to 7.6k or so in real costs after equip deductions

.....so got lucky (in a half assed kinda way..I'll take it) ....would rather see 1k coin and just pay the IRS to tell the truth on what I mine..but hey paying nothing on minng
and getting equip deductions  .... this works too....good to have a goal mining to see if
I can only lose 25% with elec on this Titan......(hey I'll take that eventually at this point)

it is a very lame goal..but hey ....you do what you can do to float the boat

good luck on the lawsuits....

(damn I wish I would have backed up knc forums that woulda really helped you folk)

Reminder note from the lawyer:

Nah, I'm not vested in this (potential) case - my own interest re: forums is limited to the fact that a trove of early mining information is effectively lost - was more a question which those who would be part might want to ask

It's my understanding (not a lawyer, could be wrong) that as its their content, and as long as no case is actively using that as evidence  (e.g no judge told them not to touch it) they can destroy it if they wish to.

But if you really want to know, I can put it in my next batch of questions to the lawyers

Inaccessible isn't necessarily the same as removed.  As anybody with a desire to hide things can easily google it anyway, let me point the way: http://archive.org/post/1019415/retroactive-robotstxt-removal-of-past-crawls-aka-oakland-archive-policy
And yes, this is by design - although a design of infinitesimally small thinking, even for a 2002 policy .  It should be obvious that I think the spirit of the policy should be followed, not the letter, but there you go.

Yeah, like I said - they probably had the right to take it down.. the question was if they have the right to actually delete that information altogether.  It's one thing to hide it from the public eye, and another to destroy

By making this information public I have gotten other information from fellow users / victims.

One piece of valuable information, I hear one person (in Europe) had pretty much mirrored the whole of the KNC forums before it was taken down. Not sure if its a 100% backup but it sounds like ~98%.

I'll let you know more once I know more, I want to also see if this person would want to share his backup for the upcoming site...

Got a few questions answered from the lawyers:

1 - Right to removal of the forums:

2 - How long will this take

AFAIK only the original person that archived the pages can remove them(or court order I guess).
Folks here might want to contact opieum2 who is doing work on the AMT scammer Joshua Zipkin. One thing he is pushing hard on is a matter of collusion between AMT/Bitmine.ch, Technobit, KNC, and Hashfast. For example: The Blockchain shows sizable BTC transfers between wallets owned by Joshua Zipkin owner of what was AMT to and from KNC along with what is like clockwork mining income from a KNC pool to Josh's wallet.

And then there is what we feel is the heart of the matter: PetaHash and the investment group behind it. They have strong links to KNC, AMT/Bitmine.ch, HashFast, and other rotten apples. Wanna bet that most of any hardware produced (that worked) went to them and other farms with little or for some cases no hardware making it to the non-Peta farm scale Consumers?

Seems like you guys are in a good track, and have lawyers that can help you... The future is starting to look brighter, good luck

Yeah, I grabbed a copy of whatever was left in the wayback machine - unfortunately, not everything is in there - and what's there now is not guaranteed to be there in the future as archived content can be made inaccessible retroactively.

My question was more with regard to whether it would even be legal for them to destroy that information (I'd guess it's legal to take it offline as long as they retain a copy) when they were or could reasonably have been aware of a potential pending lawsuit.  In the U.S. this is covered in part under spoliation laws - I have no idea about Sweden

As we Investomers in AMT have done, use the Wayback immediately to capture and Publicly archive any webpage of theirs. http://archive.org/web/
Pages archived there are proven legally admissible evidence.
The site also lets you search back in history for any pages others have archived there.

Wish you guys all luck.  And wow lawyer is quite expensive "client retainer fee of $1000 USD" of 20 people = 20k in retainer expenses.  Are they just working for retainer at that amount or do they get around 1/3 of settlement as well?

@TheRealSteve,

Good question, no idea myself, forwarded your question to the lawyer

@Searing, Good to see ya dude..., I remember you, we chatted quite a bit on the KNC forums as I think  you and I were one of the first to get our Titans (Batch 1).
My username there was "Ryast" and my avatar was Steve Jobs with a tail

this is kinda weird in the sense there HAVE been 2nd batch titan shipped (those who paid for them) now the bonus titan is not available due to 'tech issues' where were the
tech issues when the paid 2nd batch units are shipping? The guy going to the offices should arrive with an attorney and have them explain that bit of fiction!

by the by the 2nd batch 200mh titans they are not gonna make either ...I thought those folk were getting refunds but knowing knc the will send them neptunes too

man they are so far down the slimy scale and still slipping


edit: saw lawsuit above you guys should go with that ..you have 'proof' the tech issue is a lie...only came up when they were 'supposed to' ship your 2nd batch titan
so imho looks like good odds

we that were screwed on the orig titan 1st batch crappy chip ..no firmware in any working form for alts for a couple months ..salute you....save yourselves...we are LOST...argh....croak!

Since they are offering 3 BTC, how much did you original pay for the original miner?

Speaking of that... what are the laws over there with regard to possible destruction of evidence when you know or should reasonably know that there is a potential lawsuit pending?  This in regard to their website redesign where the KnCMiner forums (full of good information on 'old' tech and miners) up and disappeared. ( They could still have all that information and just aren't publishing it, of course. )

Hey everyone!

Sorry for the delay, its always when you have something important to do you have something else you also have to do 

anyways, as I wrote in my last reply: I met the lawyers today in Sweden and yes, we do have options!!

Before you read any further, please note this important thing:
If you want to join in the lawsuit please write to KNC and tell them you are NOT taking either of their options and that you DO NOT want delivery of the Neptune or 3 BTC.

If you have taken delivery of the Neptune, do not open it, keep it packed as original in the corner.

This is only for the people who chose the Titan as the bonus machine

The two lawyers who I have spoken with are Magnus and Joakim, they already have suits against KNC for the original Neptunes, the 'super jupiters' (also known as 2nd hand junk) and other things, if you want to you can contact the lawyers at the below address to verify anything I am about to tell you:

Magnus Daar
Advokat & Partner
_____________________________
Advokatfirman Rise & Co AB
Ferkens Gränd 1, 111 30 Stockholm, Sweden
Mob. +46 (0)708 86 81 61
Mail: [email protected]
Web: www.riseco.se

If you go with the above lawyers, you will be getting people who are already engaged against KNC and not starting out, they know KNC and KNC's history or cheating people like you and me.

If using the above contact details to email/call etc the lawyers, please mention my name (Ryan) so they know which case you are enquiring about. As they have so many cases against KNC for so many different things it can otherwise take some time before they know what you are talking about.

As all of you in the same boat as me already know, and suspected: KNC offered us a Bonus Titan Batch 2, they kept us waiting for months and now they have told every one of us a "technical issue" is why we are not getting our machines - that is (I suspected), fraud, but since I am not a legal person myself I contacted the lawyers to confirm what I suspected.
The good news is the lawyers think we have a very good case on this.

The other good news is Sweden allows Class Action suits to be brought against companies and thats exactly what we plan to do.

These scummy people need to be sued, we all know that. This is not cointerra or hashfast where the company was dying without money so they tried to skip out, KNC has a lot of money that WE gave them, now they are using that same money to dig our graves.

I have spoken with the lawyers, joined the suit and volunteered to be the "ambassador" for this suit (more details on how you can join the suit below), I will answer any questions you may have, or forward any questions to the lawyers if you want me to (within reason of course).

While bitcointalk is an awesome place to discuss this, it also has a 10000 different topics (or more) so to keep it more condensed and focused I will be starting a (tiny) website just for this suit, some place where we can gather testimonials, user details, purchase details etc all in one place.

The money
------------
Filing a suit is not free and lawyer man hours is not free either.
To get in on the suit you will have to pay a client retainer fee of $1000 USD, that is, in my opinion a small price to pay compared to how much we have lost and how much we hope to gain back.

We will also need around 20 people to go forward with the suit.

From those who wants to join the lawsuit, we need each person’s order confirmation, personal details, the first KnC-offer (eg: bonus machine details) and the second KnC-offer (basically same stupid email we all go telling us they had a "technical issue") and other communications between the client (you) and KnCMiner (email, forum posts etc anything that you may have).

Feel free to spread this information and my contact details among your contacts and in the community. The more people who join, the more power to us.


Money 2
--------
This is not part of the lawsuit but my appeal to you, if you do join the lawsuit, I would appreciate it if you could send me $25-$50 USD, this will be used for the website that I mentioned earlier.
Once the website is up, I want to have some Google Adwords programs up so that when someone (like you and me) searches for KNC they see the ad, they hopefully join the lawsuit and it helps all of us - we need to get the word out, adwords, facebook, twitter etc. Whatever it takes.

If you want to do the adwords thing yourself, that too is fine (for example if you have a free google voucher), but please tell me so that we don't compete on the same ads and the same words wasting time, effort and money.

There are many people out there who have gotten the same rotten deal as us, but they sadly will miss this thread, we need to try our best to reach them and so the above are my best ideas... I am totally open to more ideas, like I said, we are all in this together.

Questions? Write here if you think everyone can benefit from them or feel free to PM me (like some of you have done) especially if giving me your personal details.
Questions for the lawyers? They are friendly guys, if you don't wnt to write to them directly, ask me and I'll ask them for you.

I think a lot of you already know me if you were on the KNC forums, my username there was "Ryast".

If you have not yet settled with KNC miner, please read my next post in a few hours (it's going to be a long post) and please hold off a bit, I just met with some lawyers and I have some news that I am sure you will find very interesting.

We DO have options other than just the 2 sh!t options KNC are offering us... more like bending us over and giving us "options".

At least so far they have not been compared to Joshua Zipkin and AMT Miners. Josh along with AMT's partners in crime Bitmine.ch have out-scammed them all. Joshua Zipkin has fled to Bulgaria to avoid the lawsuit in-progress and other pending prosecution he will face if he ever returns to the USA.

So what, just don't take the offer... Stick to your guns!... They obviously made a mistake, and can't cover the previous offer.
I'd be Counter-offering them to accept half the price of the Titan order returned to you in Bitcoin.

I thought KNC was one of the good guys, turns out the are as bad as BFL,  BA, HF, etc.  

The original deal was Hash While You Wait, then they changed it to Hash while you wait ***OR*** 2nd miner, had they said that in the beginning there would have been a LOT of cancellations.

Now they are changing it again because they think.... who can do a f**k about it?

For me it is last drop - 3BTC or neptune that late is damn joke!
I'm ready to go as far as it is needed to get my miner or half of my investment back. (Deal was 2 for 1 right!)

In the meantime, EVERYONE, PLEASE talk about it online, tweet about it, write about it, take just 30 seconds to a minute of your time.

Please, even if you are not a customer, this could have happened to you and as a community we should not stand for this.

Waiting for a reply from them and the lawyers I contacted. The visit will happen, (and probably keep happening) but I want to wait till I get some responses first.

When you will go at their office???

They changed their website, took down all phone numbers.
Googling I found phone numbers of past employees, thats it.

Does anyone have any telephone of them??

I received the same message


Maybe is April joke

Been speaking with many people around the world, got a few PMs from people after writing this here as well, everyone have gotten the same email.

It seems their "technical issue" is basically for everyone who was quick enough to change to a Titan.

I am in contact with two lawyers in Sweden, if anyone else wants their contact details or wants to join as a group, PM me please.

What kind of joke is this?
Is this April Fools Day prank or what?

3BTC after waiting almost a year. Now they claim that they had some kind of error in their system? I hope that karma hit-s them hard to nuts!
Is it our problem that they messed up their system and lost some data?

Or neptune - AHAHA, now they want to get rid of old equipment and are offering that fire-hazard product?
Nice joke, KNC, now give us our Titan!

I got lucky too & avoided almost all of em,Hasfast,Bitmine,AMT,latest round of BFL,etc....

My "luck" consisted of my being too broke to afford any of their crap  

Thanks, no matter what I do, I'm going to need that luck.

I think I'm just going to need all the luck I can get for not just losing it and assaulting someone. I'm the most peaceful guy, hate violence, but when I get pushed into a corner I just go fuckit, it's happened twice before.

If they offer me and stick to 3 or 4 btc face to face... something is going to happen, I can fucking feel it.

I paid a shitload for that miner, I would have cancelled out had I known there was no 2 for 1, no cloudmining etc and now after all that... they are pulling this shit and a take it or fuck off? And they think I'm just going to go, oh well and twiddle my thumbs? I'm actually looking forward to meeting them face to face, somethings got to give and it's not going to be me sitting being a fucking computer and bitching about it.

Well,if you go with getting the Neptune:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=knc+miner+neptune&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

Looks like you can get damn near $1000 for it,it is 5 cubes right

Better than 3 BTC.............god these KnC fuckers went to shit  

BTW,don't post the date or time your going to visit their office on here or anywhere,I'm sure they still read this forum.

Best of luck man!!!!!!  

The way I look at it, if I am not getting that Titan... I am not getting anything.
Even if I am going to end up with $0.00 in hand,  I am going to cost KNC the cost of that Neptune x2 or more.
I am in Stockholm, Sweden... so they are going to be seeing my face personally for quite a while, no email shit... they have to deal with an angry customer face to face. I will try to meet them as they are going into their office and I will sometimes be there to meet them as they break off from work but they ARE going to see what an angry customer looks like.

I want my Titan, or they are going to see a lot of me (good and bad).

I`m just looking from a investment stand point. Plus lawyer is going to cost you a retainer or hrly depending the person is, and in california its expensive even small litigation process like this that would fall under small claims court.

I dont know where youre from, but if the lawyers rate is going to add up to another KNC miner like why bother?

Its just being smart and taking the 3 btc offered which is $740 total at current rate. Plus this is going through international areas where it could be a way longer process. Unless you have someone to represent you in Sweden.

I`m not trying to protect them in any form, I just assume whats the best route given the options available.

I will not be taking the 3BTC offered, that in itself is like a kick in the nuts.

If I don't get my Titan from KNC, I am first and foremost making a police complaint, then contacting a lawyer (I have written to two already). I will then cost them time and money by showing up quite often in their office/s and I will make a big noise.

This is the absolute last fucking straw and I refuse to just stand by and/or bend over.

Damn, that really sucks. But atleast you got options, then BFL crap where you get nothing at all right?

In this option, I would take the option 2, get the 3 btc and call it a day. Then buy a spoondlies hardware to make up for this loss of time, they also offer cloud mining, but seeing you want a physical hardware just get it once they are available.


I mean if you really think about it, its a better version of loss of time then having nothing at all. I still cry when I could of been a BFL victim.

Highly doubt they would make their minds differently about an individual case. They would have further problems with that, as all other customers would reclaim the same treatment...


They are basically screwing you for not sticking with them and their cloud mining scheme Screwing you for not "betting" on them all this time.

Not sure you would have much more Bitcoins if you enrolled in their cloud mining option.

Going in group is a good idea... Hope you guys can make something out of that visit.

When I'm thinking about KNC and so on, time to time I'm so happy, that they not from my hometown..

good luck and strong nerves anyway, you will need both.

I would try to be a bit more level headed than that. They won't give you anything if you get arrested.

Good luck. Be sure to let us know how it goes.

They are such rogue bastards.

If any of us had gone in for that cloud mining option then we would have at least 10-15 BTC by now, but they are not even giving us that, they have put it at the low 3BTC because they want everyone to go for the shitty Neptune.

I and another person, who have both gotten screwed separately are going there for the first of many good arguments I think.

At this point I don't care if I get arrested, I am going to be making quite a bit of noise quite frequently.

A lot of people will go for the 3 Bitcoin so that they aren't just completely out of their money.

Maybe you could drive up this price on an individual case if you make enough noise.

Spoke to a few different people (in Stockholm) and around the world, it seems they have all got this message if they had changed to the Titans.

KNC does not want to give out ANY Titans,  they want to send the now, pretty much worthless Neptunes, and claim a "technical issue" for all who had changed to Titans in time.

I'm a pretty calm person myself, and totally non violent... but right now... my frame of mind is _not_ good.

>  People are comparing them to BFL even
In my mind they are worse than BFL, these are hiding behind double talk, horrible contracts, lies and deceptive marketing all the while making millions.

While I wouldn't do what I am about to say, if KNC's entire office burned down and I heard the owners were still inside... I would be there handing out marshmallows and sticks.

The situation is pretty extreme... KNC has been going downhill for quite a bit of time. People are comparing them to BFL even... Despite this you should remain your cool if you visit their offices. Get a rest before going, you'll lose all your reasning if you're not cool and they'll simply kick you out from there...

Swedish folks that bought from them should organize a small group to go and talk to them, otherwise they won't move much or pay attention to you, only

I've been around this KNC subject for quite some time, as I've been with all of the BFL situation... I hope everyone gets out of KNC without much trouble. I'll be watching...

Take that anger and a recording device to KNC and start yelling. I won't condone violence, but scream, yell, even throw some staplers or a monitor. Just record it, please. If I was close enough to BFL there would be audio or video of me going ape shit in their offices.

There's an idea! Shall try if I remember

Soooo fu***king mad right now, I could punch someone in their throat.  Its good the meeting is not today or "Anna" who replies to most of the email would have trouble saying her name. If I do meet Sam cole, gonna kick him in the nuts in my current state of mind.

Record it.

We could all use a good laugh.

I am in Stockholm, Sweden.

I will be going directly to their offices to make a big noise, they are acting like tough guys because of email, I want to see what they are going to be saying with shouting angry customers at their door.

I got the same message..what are you planning to do? I wish I were Swedish so I could sue their sorry asses.

I bought a miner from the scammers last year, a Neptune.

I fell for the 2 for one 1 offer and didnt take cloud mining as an option, I instead opted for the "bonus machine" but made one good decision, when given the option I opted for the Titan miner as the bonus machine and today I get this message:


The low down, sons of vipers and b**hes are trying to screw us over one last time.