Topic: Kraken stealing from its clients by artificially triggering stop loss BTC/USD (Read 185 times)
September 19, 2019, 10:19:25 PM
Thank you for bringing this topic to our attention.
September 19, 2019, 02:25:09 PM
Good catch OP even if this is a technical error if it had not been spotted Kraken would have walked off with users funds dew to that.
they are still walking away with user funds. they aren't rolling back trades and they aren't informing affected traders. they might compensate you if you submit a ticket but otherwise kraken has basically said (on twitter!) "we ran your stops, sorry, contact us if you have a problem".
I have noticed a increases in this kind of activity cross the spectrum of exchanges.
Binance have had some strange moves over the last few weeks which have some concern.
While exchanges thrive on volume they are even more increasingly turning to the margin traders to make a quick buck or two with these crazy moves.
Binance have had some strange moves over the last few weeks which have some concern.
While exchanges thrive on volume they are even more increasingly turning to the margin traders to make a quick buck or two with these crazy moves.
there's nothing wrong with margin trading if there's adequate liquidity on the books. what happened here wasn't a liquidity problem at all---it was that kraken's buggy trade engine ignored the entire order book.
September 19, 2019, 07:41:37 AM
Good catch OP even if this is a technical error if it had not been spotted Kraken would have walked off with users funds dew to that.
I have noticed a increases in this kind of activity cross the spectrum of exchanges.
Binance have had some strange moves over the last few weeks which have some concern.
While exchanges thrive on volume they are even more increasingly turning to the margin traders to make a quick buck or two with these crazy moves.
If kraken have acknowledged this you should get your funds back if not save all the data you have and make sure you keep it safe and seek some advice exchanges have a duty of care to clients if there was a issue that caused you to lose funds they are liable the fact they have openly admitted there was some kind of issue you should be able to recover the funds from kraken.
I have noticed a increases in this kind of activity cross the spectrum of exchanges.
Binance have had some strange moves over the last few weeks which have some concern.
While exchanges thrive on volume they are even more increasingly turning to the margin traders to make a quick buck or two with these crazy moves.
If kraken have acknowledged this you should get your funds back if not save all the data you have and make sure you keep it safe and seek some advice exchanges have a duty of care to clients if there was a issue that caused you to lose funds they are liable the fact they have openly admitted there was some kind of issue you should be able to recover the funds from kraken.
September 16, 2019, 04:53:01 AM
Read more ----> https://twitter.com/krakenfx/status/1172948393196277761
In general, the platform decided not to retract orders at $ 8,000 and sell at $ 12,000 and bear the loss themselves.
It's a beautiful gesture from them and I don't think those affected by this change will cost the platform a lot of money.
In general, the platform decided not to retract orders at $ 8,000 and sell at $ 12,000 and bear the loss themselves.
It's a beautiful gesture from them and I don't think those affected by this change will cost the platform a lot of money.
that's all well and good, but what about the stops their little "test" triggered?
Quote
Stops in the range of $8-12k were triggered. Stop market orders were correctly filled at market price (best bid/ask available).
so they just admitted to running their client's stops!
there are multiple people in that thread complaining about wrongful liquidation or stop loss trigger. kraken are specifically not rolling back the stop market orders they triggered and i see nothing about them offering reimbursement.
this is actually very shady on kraken's part......
September 16, 2019, 01:29:25 AM
They appear to have officially acknowledged this technical error on their Twitter account.
Read more ----> https://twitter.com/krakenfx/status/1172948393196277761
In general, the platform decided not to retract orders at $ 8,000 and sell at $ 12,000 and bear the loss themselves.
It's a beautiful gesture from them and I don't think those affected by this change will cost the platform a lot of money.
Yesterday a test of an unreleased advanced order type encountered a bug which resulted in the order's prices being matched against the wrong side of the book. Some clients bought from the tester at $8000 and others sold at $12000 without clearing the intervening liquidity.
While the candle gives the impression that liquidity was exhausted between $8-12k, the wicks on either side are hollow. A trade executed at the high and low but there were not trades throughout and there were no other orders that were not matched that should have been.
Stops in the range of $8-12k were triggered. Stop market orders were correctly filled at market price (best bid/ask available). For questions about this incident as it relates to your account, please submit a support ticket
While the candle gives the impression that liquidity was exhausted between $8-12k, the wicks on either side are hollow. A trade executed at the high and low but there were not trades throughout and there were no other orders that were not matched that should have been.
Stops in the range of $8-12k were triggered. Stop market orders were correctly filled at market price (best bid/ask available). For questions about this incident as it relates to your account, please submit a support ticket
Read more ----> https://twitter.com/krakenfx/status/1172948393196277761
In general, the platform decided not to retract orders at $ 8,000 and sell at $ 12,000 and bear the loss themselves.
It's a beautiful gesture from them and I don't think those affected by this change will cost the platform a lot of money.
September 14, 2019, 01:59:57 PM
In one seccond, the market went from 10230$ to 12000$ then down to 8000$ then back up to 10230$, triggering all stop loses in both directions.
Obvious the money remained in the exchange because the price remained exactly before. All in one second.
Obvious the money remained in the exchange because the price remained exactly before. All in one second.
If you check the volume for 40% move of the market (from 10000 up to 12000 then down to 8000 then back up to 10000) you will find that it is only 475 BTC in total- 3 moves pump-dump-pump back.
the API confirms what the OP is saying. the volume definitely doesn't reflect the liquidity so it's very fishy. not sure if this is an API glitch or if kraken just annihilated its margin traders with a classic bitmex FU spike:
@DanielBucuresti, can you confirm whether you had positions affected by this? were you liquidated or had a stop loss trigger and if so, at what price level?
i don't see anything in the news yet about flash crashes or liquidations.
September 14, 2019, 10:05:49 AM
The difference in platform prices is not a problem, as the difference between some platforms is about $ 2000 between Korean platforms and the rest of the platforms.
The situation you mentioned may be technical error or manipulation from outside the platform but since it is repeated it means that the platform shows negative signals and should be avoided.
What happened lasted a flash of time that few people could follow.
Generally, although high-volumes can be faked, they are better than others.
The situation you mentioned may be technical error or manipulation from outside the platform but since it is repeated it means that the platform shows negative signals and should be avoided.
What happened lasted a flash of time that few people could follow.
Generally, although high-volumes can be faked, they are better than others.
September 14, 2019, 08:31:32 AM
This in theft, not low liquidity issue because:
If you check the volume for 40% move of the market (from 10000 up to 12000 then down to 8000 then back up to 10000) you will find that it is only 475 BTC in total- 3 moves pump-dump-pump back.
3 hours earlier, at 20:06/13 sept 2019, only a dump of 222 BTC moved price down 140$ only!
Why 3 hours later,a smaller ammount of BTC, theoretically like 120 used for initial dump or pump, moved the price in one second with 2000$, like 14 times more than previous dump. ?
Why the price flashed back to the same initial level instantly? this is the smoking gun.
And if it wasn't enough, the high and low are dead exactly 8000 and 12000 USD. Real markets uses decimals with values like 7983,4. Idiots, fake it better next time.
This is burglary, not low liquidity. I withdrawn all my funds from Kraken because they are not honest and i expect to close their activity soon without returning funds to its customers.
Check to yourself
https://trade.kraken.com/markets/kraken/btc/usd/1d
If you check the volume for 40% move of the market (from 10000 up to 12000 then down to 8000 then back up to 10000) you will find that it is only 475 BTC in total- 3 moves pump-dump-pump back.
3 hours earlier, at 20:06/13 sept 2019, only a dump of 222 BTC moved price down 140$ only!
Why 3 hours later,a smaller ammount of BTC, theoretically like 120 used for initial dump or pump, moved the price in one second with 2000$, like 14 times more than previous dump. ?
Why the price flashed back to the same initial level instantly? this is the smoking gun.
And if it wasn't enough, the high and low are dead exactly 8000 and 12000 USD. Real markets uses decimals with values like 7983,4. Idiots, fake it better next time.
This is burglary, not low liquidity. I withdrawn all my funds from Kraken because they are not honest and i expect to close their activity soon without returning funds to its customers.
Check to yourself
https://trade.kraken.com/markets/kraken/btc/usd/1d
September 14, 2019, 08:01:30 AM
They have liquidity problems on many pairs they don't steal your money. Just use Bitfinex, Bitmex or Deribit if you want to trade Bitcoin and avoid bad liquidity and flash crash/pump
EDIT: mybad, not a liquidity problem but a bug in their engine.
EDIT: mybad, not a liquidity problem but a bug in their engine.
September 14, 2019, 07:19:15 AM
This is the third time when Kraken exchange does lower and rise the price of BTC/USD with 20% in a flash, one second, without interacting with external markets:
See 23 september 2019 at 11.36 on all markets compared with Kraken.
In one seccond, the market went from 10230$ to 12000$ then down to 8000$ then back up to 10230$, triggering all stop loses in both directions.
Obvious the money remained in the exchange because the price remained exactly as before. All in one second.
Another instance of this felony is 21 aug 2019 23.00 hour where i lost 700 USD by artificially triggered stop loss. The price flashed up 5% and back in one second.
I do not recommend Kraken and i will move all my funds. I expect that kraken will be closed due to new US anti-crypto rules and all coins confiscated.
There is a precedent when US confiscated all the gold from its citizens and BTC is digital gold:
"Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933"
Check to yourself on the kraken charts here:
https://trade.kraken.com/markets/kraken/btc/usd/1d
See 23 september 2019 at 11.36 on all markets compared with Kraken.
In one seccond, the market went from 10230$ to 12000$ then down to 8000$ then back up to 10230$, triggering all stop loses in both directions.
Obvious the money remained in the exchange because the price remained exactly as before. All in one second.
Another instance of this felony is 21 aug 2019 23.00 hour where i lost 700 USD by artificially triggered stop loss. The price flashed up 5% and back in one second.
I do not recommend Kraken and i will move all my funds. I expect that kraken will be closed due to new US anti-crypto rules and all coins confiscated.
There is a precedent when US confiscated all the gold from its citizens and BTC is digital gold:
"Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933"
Check to yourself on the kraken charts here:
https://trade.kraken.com/markets/kraken/btc/usd/1d
Jump to: