Topic: Krater Miner OFFICIAL THREAD (WORKING Avalon Clone w/ videos!) (Read 7466 times)

Avalon is AWOL. There are many bulk chip orders that were placed before yours and haven't been shipped. I believe the only bulk chip order that has actually been delivered is Zefir's batch one.

According out our order queue, the chips should have arrived last week.  We have not received them yet.  As soon as they arrive, we will post an update in this thread.

All of the boards, harnesses, heatsinks, etc.. are ready to go.  Once the chips arrive, assembly of the miners will begin asap.

Thank you for reaching out!

ETA on the chips? When was the last time you heart from Avalon/Yifu?

Thanks for reaching out.

What is the price of your miner?: 90 BTC

Do you accept USD ?:  Yes, we accept international wire transfers and Dwolla.  Please login and/or register and checkout this page for more details: http://kraterminer.com/kraterminer.php

What's the delivery date if I order tomorrow?: All of the components, boards, harnesses, heatsinks, etc are ready to go.  We're just waiting on the chips to arrive from Avalon, which should be soon.  If the chips arrive soon, we should be shipping in mid-late August.

Hope that helps, and feel free to contact us at anytime with any other questions.  You can reach us via email [email protected] or by phone (440) 391-9651

What is the price of your miner?
Do you accept USD ?
Whats the delivery date if I order tomorrow?

Not yet.  The chips should be in later this week or next week.

Sorry for the delay.  Correct, we are not offering hosting at this time.

I suppose no hosting available (because you did not answer)...

Are your chips in yet?

I believe you misread it.  They're not shipping any units at all Dec-Feb, but when they do start offering new hardware again it will be priced with the overall network hashrate taken into consideration so they can still make a good profit, but leave enough on the table to make purchasing from them attractive to customers.

I'd buy at 50 too, but why would they sell them at that price? They're is better off mining them than selling at that price.

That last sentence sounds a lot like "If our competitors continue to ship during that period, we will too". That seems inevitable, making this statement meaningless.

How to do it properly (just received this from KNC):

 KnCMiner Network Protection Statement


At KnCMiner we are aware of the service we are providing to our customers. We are also aware that we need our customers to have a return on their devices in order to purchase form us again. With the scale of the supply chains, agreements and factories we have access to, we need to be cautious we don’t ship too many devices and therefore reduce the return to our customers.  So with that in mind our plan is to do as follows:
 
We will ship no devices in December 2013, January 2014 or  February 2014. Meaning that once we have taken the difficulty up at the end of November we will not release any more hashing power for 3 months. We will then release our new generation of devices, which will begin shipping in March 2014. These devices will also have a much higher GH/$ rating than any of our current offerings.
 
We would like to state that If any of our competitors continues to add large amounts of hashing power to the network during December, January or February. We will continue to release our devices as competitively priced as we can to protect our customers share of the network.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

Hosting services? I am in Europe - in that case should I pay VAT too?

The price in USD will be equivalent to the current price of 90 BTC.

Our chips should be in by the end of this week or next week.  All of the boards and components are ready to go, so as soon as the chips arrive, assembly will begin.

Does anyone know if they have their chips yet? what their shipping date would be?

I didn't realize the price of BTC has increased greatly. What is your set rate in USD? the price is +$2000 and more than terrahash pricing.

I see you guys lowered the price! Its much more competitive, and hopefully you'll net more sales.

People are under the impression that no one knows how to do math.

Here is how to be successful and to deliver a successful product announcement:

1. Have a product
2. If you don't have a product have a date when you will have a product
3. price your product comparable to other similar products, even better, price your product to be competitive
4. be customer service oriented and responsive.


if you fail any of these 4 you are destined to have problems.

If you fail at #3, then the other 3 really don't matter.


The one good thing bitcointalk has going for it is that people will give you feedback,
so before you go sinking tens of thousands of dollars into a venture,
find some folks to give you feedback, because right now you need:

1. Someone to vouch for your product
2. A product that is affordable.

You have neither.

  I'm curius. How many orders have already?

I wish you great success, since you are located just up the road from me in Ohio. I would love to purchase from you. However, since I don't have a lot of BTC I have to fund with USD.  At $10 a Gh/s Just a bit too rich for me considering a lot of cheaper ASIC  alternatives. ;-(

Lol Dx if you have any popcorn left head over to the scam forums for the scotaloo/tradefortress drama.

Guys, it is a CLONE.  It is not an Avalon, it is an untested imitation with no credibility yet.  It should be LESS expensive than the real deal.  And that is the case in every other industry.  Once you get your acts together and come up with a sane price (MAYBE 65 BTC and go down from there), you might find that you start getting some orders.  Until then, you are just trying to price gouge people who know better.

This ^^

Tough crowd here, may have been prudent to wait a bit on the pricing.
Any way good to see a project like this. I hope it works out well.

lol, another discount, so original price was 200, same day later 125 and today (after 3 days) 90.) ohh, is is so funny watching, how guys from Krater just want to earn thousands of dollars on one device, but hit the wall on forum in full speed.)

I see they adjusted the prices to 90 BTC.

And they obviously priced it in BTC with the $$$ value in mind..  so now they are in a muck with BTC back to $90-100 to throw their price to the moon again

Atleast when Avalon did it on batch 3 they were going by how many btc you would mine, etc..  they just ended up dropping the ball big time on delivery which made that situation a joke in the end

look for another 'price drop' by Krater from this runup

You're right about the ship dates.  Some of Krater's competitors have shipped, but some are in the same boat as them.

Hypothetical time.  Even if Krater had a machine this very second, at your door (lets assume you tweak it to the max 90Gh/s), would you pay $12,500 for it if you could start mining with it today?  Would you pay $12,500 usd for it in August, or September, or October?

I think lecturing them on their prices is complete and I think they've heard it from every angle.  It's simply going to be what the market decides they are worth.  If they have them for sale and nobody buys them, they'll have to either (A) Lower their prices until they have enough buyers to absorb their inventory or (B) Mine with the units themselves.  There isn't anything else to say about it.  

I agree with you if they don't meet thir delivery date, but you can not call them ripp-offs just if they offer at lower price in later  delivery date  Its just not polite to call such things ripp-offs just because only time will tell and all that depend on buyer due diligence. So I just wanted to point out that you have defended krater prices with valid argument and then aplied same logic to call ripp-off vendors who sell with opposite method and only that is what I think its a bit hypocrit of you, nothing else. If they meet their deadlines then they are ok.

The important word in the edit is "later". There was a date promised, for example, when BFL accepted orders last year. People placed orders with that promise in mind. The price is a function of that date, so if the manufacturer delivers months off from that date, don't you think that's a rip-off? A rip-off is defined as a misrepresentation. In most businesses and especially in this business, if a manufacturer can't deliver on promised dates, he is selling mostly nothing.

According to their website, they ordered 10k Avalon chips on May 2nd, which means they have a good chance to receive the chips in July. I'm really not sure how you made the jump from receiving chips in late July / early August to delivering in November or December, but it's a pretty absurd jump to make.

They are still expensive, but with a May 2nd Avalon chip order I think they will deliver in August unless the Avalon chips get delayed.

I must disagree.  Their price isn't just higher than their competition, it's ludicrously higher than their competition.  And they won't even ship until after their competition has.  

-Megabigpower (Bitfury) 400 Gh/s, $8000 usd October shipping.  
-KNC 400Gh/s, $7000usd SEPTEMBER shipping.
-VMC 256Gh/s, $4000usd November shipping.
-Krater 60 - 90 Gh/s, $12,500 USD (125B).  Nov? December shipping.


But Krater won't even ship until after their competition has.  How is that not a ripoff?  I know they want to make money as a business, but I think they're confused as to what kind of business they should be.  

If they want to price their hardware so high that their customers will have no hope of ever getting their investment back then they should just not sell that hardware and mine with it instead.  If they want to be a legit manufacturer, and distributor, of custom cryptocurrency hardware in the U.S. then they should price competitively.  

Krater get back to us when you make up your minds.  You can cash out on Bitcoin mining and forget selling your ASICs, but remember Bitcoin is just the start.  There's LTC, and a dozen other coins jockying for popularity.  Those coins will need hardware to mine them.  Do you want to provide it?

Well, you have explained very well how krater miner can not be called rip-off by using an argument off buyer's free choice and probable fast delivery. But in edit line you call rip off vendors who offer at lower price but to be delivered later. Same argument of free choice can be apply there as well, no need to call those rip off, dont you think?

How so? I don't understand.

This edit line sound hypocrytical IMO.

You're using very strong words, my friend. This is DEFINITELY not ripping people off. The price is higher than others' yes, and that's really all you can say about it. If I offer you a 10 ounce bottle of water at $5 and you take it, did I just "rip you off"? Given all the information you have, you agreed to that price, so you can't say I ripped you off. Nobody has all the information at the time of any decision in order to make a perfect decision all the time. It could be that you paid $5 for that bottle of water because we are in a desert and paying for that bottle at that price meant more than that price for you.

These machines are money-making machines, but the money they make gets smaller in time. Therefore, the price has much to do with WHEN they can be delivered. Yes, you can order Bitfury machines or KNC machines, but you and I know that, all else being equal, an Avalon now is worth much more than a Bitfury in October. (Disclosure: I do have a Bitfury on order, just to hedge my bets.)

EDIT: It's precisely the opposite. Those who offer something for a very low price, to be delivered later, are the ones "ripping people off".

Pretty much this.  At Krater's prices you should just mine with them and forget you ever offered to consumers.  You're leaving zero profit on the table.  Why would anyone buy?  If you won't go below $5k USD for 90Gh/s then just stop offering your units for sale and mine with them yourselves, otherwise you're just ripping people off.  

You are in the same boat as the rest of the Avalon assemblers and should price accordingly.  The only saving grace you may have is if BKK or Terrahash can't get the Klondikes working properly before chip orders start showing up meaning you would be shipping before them.  I don't think that chance is worth the additional cost.  Best case scenario is if price was the same then it would be the reason to choose you over the competition.

On the bright side you do seem very professional so far.  So kudos for that we need more of it in the ASIC space.

RIO matters.

This price is still too high but if they deliver RIGHT AWAY, not weeks or months one could make a small profit.  Is it worth it?  Not to me.  You could make back about $45 a Gh in the first month, and $30 a Gh in the second month and $20 in the third month.  That only brings you up to $95 and maybe payback in six months without power costs.  Certainly Krater is not leaving much on the table for the customer.

 

Pfffffffffffft $117 a Gh?

Can buy 600gh from KNC for that price.

How about 75 BTC?

If you sold them 90-100 BTC you'd sell out and its a bit higher than some other places.

Will you (please) offer the populated control boards and backplanes for sale individually?

Same for the hash cards, of course.

Yeah, you might want to have done a little more thinking about that before launching and getting 200BTC worth of egg on yer faces.


Very obvious, yes.


Your build your own pricing is far too high, your initial sale price for the units was insanely high, your current pricing is for people who have no idea what they are spending their money/coins on.

Best of luck, i am so pleased to be buying from KNCminer.

I honestly think you should either mine with these chips yourselves, or sell shares in your farm if you can not afford to complete the build-out yourselves. I do not think you will have a great success with your products, they are quite simply overpriced for the market as it stands today.

Price is still kinda in the luxury range for something that can't ship now

I think ASICMiner is changing up their price schedule soon on their blades..  of course they will wait till these guys get ready to ship and then FriedCat will lower price then

but who knows, it ain't like you are shipping anytime soon..  who knows when those avalon chips show up

Good idea on the price change.
You really should edit your TOS and Privacy Policy, right now it's just plain Lorem Ipsum....

Thanks again for your input, all of it is very important to us.

We have to be honest when it came down to the initial price we've posted. We've been so focused on the production of the units, getting a working prototype, developing the website and everything else that goes into a project like this, that it came to the last minute of launching the website and we were still very undecided about the final listed price of our units. We have been re-evaluating the cost all along regardless of what has been said on here. Obviously, we want to make a profit... we did indeed put lots of time, effort, and money in to this project. We know we priced it too aggressively and we are adjusting it accordingly.

The unit will now cost 125 BTC, and the price change is effective immediately.

Also, the prices on the build your own unit is changing to:

1 module: 35 btc

2 module: 45 btc

3 module: 55 btc

4 module: 65 btc

So 11+ weeks from now, so mid october when my $4000 200Gh rig arrives from KNC your $15,000 90Gh rig will be ready?

There is no way the math is going to work on 200BTC

Its $16000 for 90GH (@ $80 a BTC)

I can get 900GH (that's nine hundred) Gigahash from KNC Miner for that price.

If you could deliver today it still would not make up the difference.

You only have 25BTC in the chips. Maybe 30BTC in total costs. You are adding 600% margin.

Totally with Titomane with this, although I'm guessing you plan to build and mine until you sell each unit one by one, this maximising profit.

I don't think it being US made means diddly in the scheme of things aside logistics. It's an Asian design proven to work, albeit for a reconfigured connector.

I appreciate you have heard peeps complain about ore-orders and justify ASICminer blade prices. Most of those bitching about pre-orders are idiots that can't comprehend non-reoccurring engineering costs, which you don't have. Those justifying ASIC miner blades are resellers themselves attempting to convince others to purchase. In any ads as with the ASICminer blade resellers eBay is your best bet, you're wasting your time trying I generate sales on this forum. At your prices someone would have to be wet behind the ears...

You are very, very greedy!

Seriously $177 a GH?

That's 10 times more than KNC
Thats  3 1/2 times more than BFL & Terrahash


If you can deliver this week, you can charge 40 BTC, If you can't deliver for 10 weeks, then 25BTC

Sorry but

10000 chips = 780 BTC
320    chips =  25  BTC

NRE of clone is 0 BTC
PCB + PSU + others no more than 35-40 BTC


If you sell each clone for 70 BTC win more than 300 BTC .
If you try to sell for 200BTC. Prepare a warehouse with 25kw. To use the clones and recover the investment.

10 000 Avalon chips cost 780 BTC

Your 1280 chips are 800BTC!!!

Good luck .. a sucker is born everyday

Thanks again for the opportunity for discourse in this forum. Some of the things we feel separate us from the others are:

1.   Our units are American made and we offer free overnight shipping to the continental United States.
2.   We offer full customer support.
3.   We have a proven working concept.
4.   We are doing everything the right way. We aren’t skimping on anything (power supplies, fans, etc).
5.   We are ready to take orders right now. Others are either sold out or aren’t to the point where they can take orders.

We know there are others claiming they’ll be ready to ship working units as soon as the Avalon chips arrive at a lower price than us. Maybe they will, maybe they won’t. I haven’t seen any of their working prototypes. We have a proven concept that is working right now and we are ready for the Avalon chips to arrive.

We are taking all the feedback on this forum seriously and appreciate these honest comments from the bitcoin community.

Is 20% HW errors normal?

Granted you value your +ive and -ive feedback, but unanimously every single person agrees this is overpriced.

This at a time at which Avalon's batch 3 which sold for 75BTC has a large portion of it's buyers wanting refunds due to lack of confidence of ROI there and fears of receipt after the bulk chips arrived.

You are not naive, you read these forums and are well aware of that.

200BTC is not happening outside of eBay. Right now Avalon units are struggling to reach $15k. Even that figure is nuts.

You'd be lucky to achieve 75-90BTC. That's still taking any future profit from your buyers.

You've either not thought this through, or researched which I find hard to believe...

Its overpriced.

I dont want to buy it

9 new blades will cost ~180

I don't think you will sell any at BTC200

yeah, overpriced

Great work, prices are about 150% over market.

thats about $166 per ghash? holy caramba

Looking good, but agreed about the pricing - a person paying 200BTC for this will never get an ROI as difficulty rises.

yes, like everybody else, all DIY guys and small companies are waiting for this moment. Point is, that they are much cheaper. Also with prepared boards, backplanes and promise, that they will deliver in 2 weeks, once chips arrived. nothing new. Could you please explain us, why is the price of you devices so high?.) do you know about competitors and their prices?

thanks for honest answer.

First of all, we’d like to thank you for the initial feedback on our units. All feedback is appreciated… positive, negative and anywhere in between.

Secondly, we’d like to inform you of our progress as far as availability of a finished, ready to ship unit is concerned. All the boards (hash cards, control units, backplanes and power distribution) are currently being mass produced locally in NE Ohio. We anticipate the completion of all boards by the time the full order of Avalon chips arrives.

We plan on being ready to start shipping out finished units as early as 1 week after the time the Avalon chips arrive.

Thanks for your interest!

It's a good effort, hopefully something you can build on in the future, with more products based on different chips and faster times to market. I'm sure development costs were high, but people who can calculate ROI don't care. I hope that Avalon delivers soon and you can start mining and selling to cover those costs. But at that price you will never sell more than a few lucky units.

sorry guys, but it is extremely expensive without ROI, pls check competitors (bitfury, KNC, DIY avalon boards) for correction of you prices.

impressed with your work.  less so on the price.
You kinda need to think about the competition you'll soon have from the other Avalon DIY teams. A more reasonable price would give you a great head-start given that you've got a working prototype.  Up to you though, it's your BTC...

200 bitcoin or $15,400 for 90gh/s is amazing expensive

Especially as they will blatantly have the devices up and mining until anyone chooses to purchase from them at that price I see a very healthy profit, considering their customers won't have any profit themselves!

I was very encouraged to see a mining company pop up that is within a two hour drive of me, and then I saw the price, which is very disappointing.

$15k (200 BTC at 75$ per BTC) is absurdly overpriced for a 90 GHs miner. I don't think you'll get anywhere near that price unless you're selling on Ebay where there tends to be an endless supply of suckers who are not very good at calculating ROI for ASIC mining equipment.

I think he is serious about this. You really need a huge luck if you want to make any sale with this product.

Cool, at least you have lots of non-selling ASIC units to mine with...

EDIT: I figured the redundant chips were from your own stock, you may want to make that clear on your site.

I think you are misunderstanding about the non working ASIC. That is if you send us chips. How do I know if they are good or not? I cannot know that. As for the price of our actual units... if I could make a price at $7K I would. We spent lots of money, and they don't take bitcoins, on securing mass production... which has already begun.

EDIT: The units we sell are 100 percent guaranteed to work.

200 BTC for a 90 GH!. Not sure if serious..

Guys you are about to get creamed by this forum unless you change that pricing ASAP.

You're not responsible for non working ASICs at those prices?! Can you not afford a buffer there, with your extreme profits and zero ROI for customers? Wow!

I mean at least when Friedcat rips people off he actually has products to hand, today. You are still reliant on Bitsyncom's delivery and at that point every other competitor will also have Avalon chips and the hashrate will be going ballistic.

I take everything back, really unimpressed.

didn't Avalon sell the same thing for 75 BTC which were expensive anyway and you're asking 200 BTC.
Are these units built and available now?

Thanks, I appreciate that! There is also more pictures and a video on the progress section of the site.

Well done, another semi-professional effort, unlike a lot of your competition. Needed.

EDIT: just seen your prices though....Oooof! You best be changing those, quickly!! What a rip off!! You're as expensive as ASICminer!!! You do realise people want a 'return on investment', right?!

We would like to introduce ourselves and our company, Krater Miner, to the bitcoin community. Our company consists of 3 people who have experience in business, web development, and component level electronics. We are based out of Northeast Ohio.

For over 2 months we have been working behind the scenes, with Carlos (better known on this forum as flyonthewall; he has a condo service that he has been promoting on this forum, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/condo-for-your-avalon-chips-price-drastically-reduced-189976) on an Avalon clone. We now have a working prototype.

On our website, www.kraterminer.com, we have a video showing the prototype in action.

We ordered 10,000 Avalon chips and we are selling 4 module units with those chips. In addition, we have a build your own unit service if you want to send us your chips.

We know you will have plenty of questions for us, so we made a FAQ page on our website that will hopefully answer most of these questions. Even though we are new to this community, we have been working exclusively on these units for the past 2 months. We decided not to make an announcement until we had video proof of our unit working. Also, you can email us at [email protected], or you can call us at (440) 391-9651. Please do not hesitate to call. I will be more than happy to answer any questions, or address any concerns you may have.

Here is a link to our most recent video: http://vimeo.com/69971232