LE is using LocalBitcons as a honeypot to trap criminals - What to do?

ensurance982

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Quote from: ChuckBuck on April 09, 2015, 07:57:00 AM

Joking aside, if you're trading 50, 100 BTC lots on LocalBitcoins, you might as well know the state laws and general AML/KYC/MSB regulatory laws.

if it's 5 or 10 BTC, no one gives a f#ck, but if you're transacting real racks, you should be licensed.

Yeah, well if it applies to AML rules, or whatever your should of course make sure you're not committing a crime or potentially facilitate money laundering or anything, sure!

ChuckBuck

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better everyday ♥

LE try to honeypot us...you honeydick them right back!!! Angry

Joking aside, if you're trading 50, 100 BTC lots on LocalBitcoins, you might as well know the state laws and general AML/KYC/MSB regulatory laws.

if it's 5 or 10 BTC, no one gives a f#ck, but if you're transacting real racks, you should be licensed.

lucullus

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Quote from: DannyHamilton on April 09, 2015, 07:25:31 AM

If you are in the U.S. and you are trading bitcoins by creating listings on localbitcoins.com, then you probably need to be registered with FinCEN (and following all the associated reporting rules). Law enforcement is very likely to see your listings on localbitcoins as evidence that you are operating a business, and that you are therefore a "Money Service Business".

If you are in the U.S. and you are trading bitcoins by responding to adds on localbitcoins, then you probably need to make sure that anyone that you transact with is registered with FinCEN. If you are transacting with someone that is registered, then it is clear that they are the "Money Service Business", and that you are just a customer. If you are transacting with people that are not registered and you are exchanging a significant volume, then there is a chance that law enforcement will claim that your activities are businesslike, and that you are therefore a "Money Service Business".

Maybe I read wrong but it seems you contradicted yourself. Do both parties need to be registered with FinCEN for bitcoin transactions (read sales) to be legal?

Q7

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I suppose what you are saying is getting wrongly reprimanded because you are doing trading in large amount and they get suspicious on where your coins came from. Well, never mind, I'm keeping my coins for now but if I really want to cash out, I would rather spend it to buy something useful for instance like a brand new laptop from Dell. Doing that probably wouldn't create any issue.

ensurance982

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 09, 2015, 07:38:53 AM

Quote from: Gimpeline on April 09, 2015, 04:29:23 AM

If you trade face to face, never do it alone. Always have a witness nearby

...Not even those with 1,000+ positive trades.

Exactly! That's one thing people have to keep in mind. LocalBitcoins is a centralized platform and thus can be the obvious target of malevolent attacks trying to scam people for their Bitcoins. Do your due diligence and take precautions!!!

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Gimpeline on April 09, 2015, 04:29:23 AM

If you trade face to face, never do it alone. Always have a witness nearby

Precautions should be taken. The meeting place can be a library or a cafeteria, where there is enough surveillance. And never trust anyone, especially those dealing with Bitcoins. Not even those with 1,000+ positive trades.

ensurance982

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Criminals? Well yeah, they should just go ahead and continue doing that. I also want criminals behind bars. This has nothing to do with me trading BTC in person with someone (although I haven't done this before, actually)...

DannyHamilton

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If you are in the U.S. and you are trading bitcoins by creating listings on localbitcoins.com, then you probably need to be registered with FinCEN (and following all the associated reporting rules). Law enforcement is very likely to see your listings on localbitcoins as evidence that you are operating a business, and that you are therefore a "Money Service Business".

If you are in the U.S. and you are trading bitcoins by responding to adds on localbitcoins, then you probably need to make sure that anyone that you transact with is registered with FinCEN. If you are transacting with someone that is registered, then it is clear that they are the "Money Service Business", and that you are just a customer. If you are transacting with people that are not registered and you are exchanging a significant volume, then there is a chance that law enforcement will claim that your activities are businesslike, and that you are therefore a "Money Service Business".

Gimpeline

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If you trade face to face, never do it alone. Always have a witness nearby

BadBear

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on April 09, 2015, 03:05:20 AM

Quote from: Ibelievetruly on April 09, 2015, 02:08:21 AM

Quote from: AGD on April 09, 2015, 01:03:12 AM

Here are some tips:

- Find out how Bitcoin trading through LocalBitcoins is treated by your country. Find out the maximum amount you are allowed to trade. If it's illegal. Don't do it!
- Don't trade high volumes. LE looks exactly for that and they will also buy from you big amounts. LE is allowed to do that, don't forget about it.
- If your customer says, he will use the bitcoins for anything illegal, then don't sell it to him. No matter how much you could earn. Don't do it! Even if your business is legal and you pay tax - Simply don't.

Anything more to add?

Wait wait a second here. So the title of this thead is "LE is using LocalBitcons as a honeypot to trap criminals - What to do?", and you give tips to actually help the criminals who may be doing crimes like sex trafficking, drug trafficking, money laundering, and more?

OP, I hope you go to jail for a very long ass time.

Trading money with someone so that they can do something illegal, isn't illegal. If someone sells me his watch, and then goes and buys drugs with that money, I am not to blame for the drugs trade, otherwise employers would be in a lot of trouble all the time!

He also explicitly says that if they want to do anything illegal, you should not sell to them. These are fair and reasonable tips to someone trading on local bitcoins legitimately.

It sounds like localbitcoins will be gone soon enough, or replaced by something less easy to track. It's a shame really.

Selling to someone for the purpose of conducting illegal activities is illegal. The specific charge would likely be money laundering, or straight up trafficking. If someone says they intend to do something illegal with the bitcoin they are buying, refuse the sale and walk away. A real criminal will not do that.

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/florida-targets-high-dollar-bitcoin-exchangers/

If it is a sting, they will probably follow you and talk to you anyway to see if they can dig anything up on you. Just remember, never talk to the cops, it cannot help you. A police officer cannot testify in your defense based on what you say, it's hearsay, they can only testify against you.

Dont Talk to Police - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

AGD

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Keeper of the Private Key

Quote from: NUFCrichard on April 09, 2015, 03:05:20 AM

Quote from: Ibelievetruly on April 09, 2015, 02:08:21 AM

Quote from: AGD on April 09, 2015, 01:03:12 AM

Here are some tips:

- Find out how Bitcoin trading through LocalBitcoins is treated by your country. Find out the maximum amount you are allowed to trade. If it's illegal. Don't do it!
- Don't trade high volumes. LE looks exactly for that and they will also buy from you big amounts. LE is allowed to do that, don't forget about it.
- If your customer says, he will use the bitcoins for anything illegal, then don't sell it to him. No matter how much you could earn. Don't do it! Even if your business is legal and you pay tax - Simply don't.

Anything more to add?

Wait wait a second here. So the title of this thead is "LE is using LocalBitcons as a honeypot to trap criminals - What to do?", and you give tips to actually help the criminals who may be doing crimes like sex trafficking, drug trafficking, money laundering, and more?

OP, I hope you go to jail for a very long ass time.

Trading money with someone so that they can do something illegal, isn't illegal. If someone sells me his watch, and then goes and buys drugs with that money, I am not to blame for the drugs trade, otherwise employers would be in a lot of trouble all the time!

He also explicitly says that if they want to do anything illegal, you should not sell to them. These are fair and reasonable tips to someone trading on local bitcoins legitimately.

It sounds like localbitcoins will be gone soon enough, or replaced by something less easy to track. It's a shame really.

Possibly yes, but agents seem to say that to high volume sellers that are under investigation and later apprehended. If you know, that your Bitcoins will be used for a crime, it can look bad for you in court, don't you think?

AGD

legendary

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Keeper of the Private Key

Check this for example:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-09/miami-bitcoin-arrests-may-be-first-state-prosecution
http://altcoinpress.com/2014/02/the-truth-about-the-localbitcoins-com-arrests/

or from this forum: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-to-trade-on-localbitcoins-without-going-to-jail-935517

I want the people to know how close they are to a home search, when they sell/buy Bitcoins on LocalBitcoins. Even small amounts can lead to an investigation in some cases.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: Ibelievetruly on April 09, 2015, 02:08:21 AM

Quote from: AGD on April 09, 2015, 01:03:12 AM

Here are some tips:

- Find out how Bitcoin trading through LocalBitcoins is treated by your country. Find out the maximum amount you are allowed to trade. If it's illegal. Don't do it!
- Don't trade high volumes. LE looks exactly for that and they will also buy from you big amounts. LE is allowed to do that, don't forget about it.
- If your customer says, he will use the bitcoins for anything illegal, then don't sell it to him. No matter how much you could earn. Don't do it! Even if your business is legal and you pay tax - Simply don't.

Anything more to add?

Wait wait a second here. So the title of this thead is "LE is using LocalBitcons as a honeypot to trap criminals - What to do?", and you give tips to actually help the criminals who may be doing crimes like sex trafficking, drug trafficking, money laundering, and more?

OP, I hope you go to jail for a very long ass time.

Trading money with someone so that they can do something illegal, isn't illegal. If someone sells me his watch, and then goes and buys drugs with that money, I am not to blame for the drugs trade, otherwise employers would be in a lot of trouble all the time!

He also explicitly says that if they want to do anything illegal, you should not sell to them. These are fair and reasonable tips to someone trading on local bitcoins legitimately.

It sounds like localbitcoins will be gone soon enough, or replaced by something less easy to track. It's a shame really.

AGD

legendary

Activity: 2070

Merit: 1164

Keeper of the Private Key

Quote from: Ibelievetruly on April 09, 2015, 02:08:21 AM

Quote from: AGD on April 09, 2015, 01:03:12 AM

Here are some tips:

- Find out how Bitcoin trading through LocalBitcoins is treated by your country. Find out the maximum amount you are allowed to trade. If it's illegal. Don't do it!
- Don't trade high volumes. LE looks exactly for that and they will also buy from you big amounts. LE is allowed to do that, don't forget about it.
- If your customer says, he will use the bitcoins for anything illegal, then don't sell it to him. No matter how much you could earn. Don't do it! Even if your business is legal and you pay tax - Simply don't.

Anything more to add?

Wait wait a second here. So the title of this thead is "LE is using LocalBitcons as a honeypot to trap criminals - What to do?", and you give tips to actually help the criminals who may be doing crimes like sex trafficking, drug trafficking, money laundering, and more?

OP, I hope you go to jail for a very long ass time.

Looks like you didn't actually read my posting. You should do some time for not paying attention. Now put back that lolly where it was and stfu.

blumangroup

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Activity: 350

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'Slow and steady wins the race'

Quote from: AGD on April 09, 2015, 01:03:12 AM

Here are some tips:

- Find out how Bitcoin trading through LocalBitcoins is treated by your country. Find out the maximum amount you are allowed to trade. If it's illegal. Don't do it!
- Don't trade high volumes. LE looks exactly for that and they will also buy from you big amounts. LE is allowed to do that, don't forget about it.
- If your customer says, he will use the bitcoins for anything illegal, then don't sell it to him. No matter how much you could earn. Don't do it! Even if your business is legal and you pay tax - Simply don't.

Anything more to add?

I write on the description that i will not sell any coins that will be used for illegal activitys then the chance of anyone saying they will use it for that is slim to none. Also try reserve bigger trades for members you have done a lot of trades "trusted" and then you have less worries about it being LE.

If that is not possible only people who have many happy trades and you should be good! Thanks for your tips sure it will help some stay safer while trading..

Ibelievetruly

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Quote from: AGD on April 09, 2015, 01:03:12 AM

Here are some tips:

- Find out how Bitcoin trading through LocalBitcoins is treated by your country. Find out the maximum amount you are allowed to trade. If it's illegal. Don't do it!
- Don't trade high volumes. LE looks exactly for that and they will also buy from you big amounts. LE is allowed to do that, don't forget about it.
- If your customer says, he will use the bitcoins for anything illegal, then don't sell it to him. No matter how much you could earn. Don't do it! Even if your business is legal and you pay tax - Simply don't.

Anything more to add?

Wait wait a second here. So the title of this thead is "LE is using LocalBitcons as a honeypot to trap criminals - What to do?", and you give tips to actually help the criminals who may be doing crimes like sex trafficking, drug trafficking, money laundering, and more?

OP, I hope you go to jail for a very long ass time.

bryant.coleman

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Activity: 3766

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If the buyer is reliable, then exchange your coins for hard cash rather than going for a bank transfer. Bank transfers are easy to trace and can be used against you later.

AGD

legendary

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Keeper of the Private Key

To make it very clear: This posting is not intended to help criminals, but for "regular" Bitcoiners, that want to legally sell their Bitcoins for cash on LocalBitcoins without risking to be investigated and raided for a few 100$.

Here are some tips:

- Find out how Bitcoin trading through LocalBitcoins is treated by your country. Find out the maximum amount you are allowed to trade. If it's illegal. Don't do it!
- Don't trade high volumes. LE looks exactly for that and they will also buy from you big amounts. LE is allowed to do that, don't forget about it.
- If your customer says, he will use the bitcoins for anything illegal, then don't sell it to him. No matter how much you could earn. Don't do it! Even if your business is legal and you pay tax - Simply don't.

Anything more to add?

edit:

- Even small amounts can lead to an investigation. If you have no problem beeing visited by LE, because you have nothing to worry, remember: Most of the times they don't ring the bell!
- If you have a legal business and pay your tax, you should say that to the buyer and even give him your card. If it is LE, they might check, but they will most likely not break your home door at inconvenient times.

Topic: LE is using LocalBitcons as a honeypot to trap criminals - What to do? (Read 938 times)