ledger.com | privacy policy | Bitcointalksearch.org

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18711

Quote from: Pmalek on July 31, 2020, 11:11:34 AM

But according to their privacy policy, they are required to so because of local french laws.

Then hold customer data in a different country which is not subject to such ridiculous privacy laws. And anonymize/delete what parts of it you can as soon as you can. And stop sending it to third parties to be processed. And encrypt it! And why on Earth was it being held in an online environment and not an airgapped one!?

Ledger dropped the ball here, big time. They can't hide behind the excuse of "Our legal team said we had to". It's not good enough.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 30, 2020, 03:25:18 AM

There is absolutely no need for Ledger to hold on to your data for 10 years. It is a huge privacy and security risk, as we have just seen with the database hack which was revealed yesterday.

I completely agree with the 2nd part of your post about it being a privacy and security risk. But according to their privacy policy, they are required to so because of local french laws.

This is what it says:

Quote

If you purchased a product or a service from us, we may retain some transactional data attached to your Contact Details to comply with our legal, tax or accounting obligations for a maximum 10 years period set forth by French applicable laws, as well as to allow us to manage our rights (for example to assert our claims in Courts) during applicable French statutes of limitations.

https://shop.ledger.com/pages/privacy-policy

Trezor is from the Czech Republic I think. The local laws are probably different there.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18711

Quote from: hugeblack on July 30, 2020, 04:15:55 AM

Do you have any proof for these claims?

Such a claim is impossible to verify without Trezor providing access to their internal database, which the are obviously never going to do.

The claim has been repeated multiple times on their website (which you linked to), their Facebook, their Twitter, and by their CTO and other SatoshiLabs staff on reddit. Much like most things in their or anybody else's Privacy Policy, that's probably as close to proof as we are ever going to get.

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

Quote from: Darker45 on July 29, 2020, 11:09:13 PM

Is this highly encouraged?

Yes it is, if you care about your privacy.
I also don't use gmail as google admited they read and send your email content to other companies:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/7312296/google-read-gmail-emails-snoop/

Quote from: ?? on ??

That's true, but it cuts both ways if you buy something and know there may be a need to return back that "something" to seller (in the case the purchased item is malfunctioning). Disposable email addresses can be easy forgettable and hence jeopardizing the possibility of replacement. The use of address that I constantly check is always preferable for me at buying (at least I see it this way).

Have you ever heard about email aliases?
They don't take any of my time and I can use them to separate work from family and purchases.
Disposable or temp email should be used for subscriptions or irrelevant sign ups.

hugeblack

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 4002

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 30, 2020, 03:25:18 AM

Trezor will delete all sensitive data from their systems 90 days after your order.

Do you have any proof for these claims? I have read about it in some newspapers and blogs^[2], but there is nothing on the privacy page^[3]
According to the privacy page, they are working to fulfill the obligation stipulated in Article 13 of the (European Union) Regulations 2016/679^[4]
I did a quick search about the duration and found no evidence that they are deleting the data after 90 days. Also, the privacy page does not contain much information.
The positive point is not sharing data with third parties.

[1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/trezor-takes-a-shot-at-ledger-after-the-hack
[2] Trezor e-shop breach is a hoax
[3] https://shop.trezor.io/static/shared/privacy-policy.pdf
[4] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2016/679/oj

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18711

Trezor will delete all sensitive data from their systems 90 days after your order. There is absolutely no need for Ledger to hold on to your data for 10 years. It is a huge privacy and security risk, as we have just seen with the database hack which was revealed yesterday.

If you have made any sensitive crypto purchase from any company, you should review their Privacy Policy for the steps you need to take to request all your data to be deleted from their systems.

Quote from: Darker45 on July 29, 2020, 11:09:13 PM

Is this highly encouraged?

Absolutely. It's not just as a way to avoid phishing or marketing emails, but as a way to protect yourself from data breaches and linking sensitive purchases to your real life information. You should also use email addresses which do not contain any sensitive information. Ledger were quick to say that only a small subset of users had had their real names and addresses accessed, bit if your email address is firstname.lastname@gmail.com, then you've shot yourself in the foot.

Quote from: Darker45 on July 29, 2020, 11:09:13 PM

You could actually create a single email address which is solely for the purpose of online shopping, booking, or reservation.

Still risky. Lets say I've used that same email on multiple online merchants and services, linking it to my real name and my real address. A database breach can then link that email, and therefore your real life identity, to the purchase of multiple hardware wallets, or the ownership of multiple exchange accounts, or something similar.

hugeblack

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 4002

Quote from: Pmalek on July 29, 2020, 01:04:46 PM

I seriously doubt they are going to misuse your private data. Leakage is a serious treat though, and Ledger has admitted that they had such problems just a few weeks ago.

I agree with you, but my concern is the point of data sharing with third parties, I do not think that this concerns a company concerned with privacy. Page formatting enables them to avoid responsibility in many cases.

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 29, 2020, 02:50:27 PM

People should just stop using email address they used for purchasing Ledger, and I expect that hackers will use them in future for many phishing attacks.
Smart people use mutiple and disposable email addresses.

I do not think that the data relates to the email, but perhaps to the address, and this may open the door to many questions regarding privacy.
If many of the system's vulnerabilities are detected by people outside the company, it is best for them to hire a new data privacy team.

People should think seriously about trust.

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Quote from: dkbit98 on July 29, 2020, 02:50:27 PM

People should just stop using email address they used for purchasing Ledger, and I expect that hackers will use them in future for many phishing attacks.
Smart people use mutiple and disposable email addresses.

Is this highly encouraged? You might end up going through all the hassles of creating a new email every time you purchase from a new online store. You could actually create a single email address which is solely for the purpose of online shopping, booking, or reservation. I have an email add specifically for this and they are now pestered with marketing messages, not a single one of which I opened.

Anyway, just as Pmalek mentioned, there is nothing unusual about this. For sure, they are only compelled to include such terms due to legal requirements.

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

People should just stop using email address they used for purchasing Ledger, and I expect that hackers will use them in future for many phishing attacks.
Smart people use mutiple and disposable email addresses.
Other people just don't care about privacy so I don't care what happens in their case honestly.
They need to learn.

Pmalek

legendary

Activity: 2730

Merit: 7065

I would say nothing out of the ordinary and nothing that other companies (crypto related or not) are not doing as well. Some of it has to be done as part of local french laws. Others due to marketing campaigns. I seriously doubt they are going to misuse your private data. Leakage is a serious treat though, and Ledger has admitted that they had such problems just a few weeks ago.

hugeblack

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 4002

We ignore reading the privacy page, and most of us read it after a problem occurs, so I will quote for you some parts related to privacy and data protection or (erased it from them systems):

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We may archive some of your personal data, with restricted access, for an additional period of time when it is strictly necessary for us to comply with our legal and/or regulatory archiving obligations and for the applicable statute of limitation periods. At the end of this additional period, your remaining personal data will be permanently erased or anonymized from our systems.

The maximum data retention period is 10 years.

Quote

If you purchased a product or a service from us, we may retain some transactional data attached to your Contact Details to comply with our legal, tax or accounting obligations for a maximum 10 years period set forth by French applicable laws, as well as to allow us to manage our rights (for example to assert our claims in Courts) during applicable French statutes of limitations.

They have the right to transfer data to third parties, but they make sure that their tasks are sufficiently secure and that your privacy is protected.

Quote

We may also transmit some of your data to third parties such as payment services, infrastructure, logistics, and other services providers.

(In certain circumstances) administrative authorities and a third party (not clearly defined) can obtain your files.

Quote

In certain circumstances and only where required by Applicable Laws, we may disclose some of your data to competent administrative or judicial authorities or any other authorized third party.

A request to erase personal data may take a month after confirming your identity and they can refuse if they have legitimate and compelling reasons for processing (do not forget that they can share your personal data with third parties who have different privacy rules.)

Quote

If you object to the processing or ask for the erasure of your personal data by Ledger, we shall acknowledge the receipt of your request and, within a maximum one month period, we shall stop processing your personal data or erase it from our IT systems, except where Ledger has legitimate and compelling grounds for processing, or for the purpose of ascertaining, exercising or defending its legal rights in accordance with the Applicable Laws.

Source and Read more ----> https://shop.ledger.com/pages/privacy-policy

Topic: ledger.com | privacy policy (Read 205 times)