Topic: Let this rise be a lesson - Bitcoin isn't strongly tied to anything (Read 778 times)

I usually didn't bother much about predicting bitcoin because it is highly volatile and people think that they could only use speculation to move the market, meanwhile, it seems like bitcoin is getting so hard to speculation and not just responding to it, because before bitcoin made this huge pump, there was much more speculations around that bitcoin will dump more than that $7500 which majority of people were beginning to speculate and believe in that too, thinking that they will need to wait for the value of bitcoin to drop to that $5k/$6k, which they unfortunately did not even invest when the value was on that $7300, but in the midst of these fud predictions was when bitcoin surged in value to this present value now and so I believe that bitcoin may repeat same based on assumption though.

Well I cant really deny such fact where there are really times which you cant really resist not to worry even if you don't care on whats happening

since you do know that you do have money invested on the sphere.For sure that kind of feeling would pop out and cant really be resisted.

There was a big debate when it comes to scaling because the miners have a view on how things should go as they have invested millions and so is the reason there was a big debate on how to proceed with the scaling solutions without any major changes on how they run the proceedings and so is the reason there was delay in implementing and different views and when it comes to addition of Schnorr signature and other addition of OP codes the base protocol remains the same and has no impact on the miners and hence there is not much debate and these events passed through without much notice.

It is clearly neither tied to anyone. I have read this news about the apparent unusually sudden pumps it have been said that it was manipulated by whales but there are no direct evidences showing. They showed charts and stuff about mining but neither one had find an evidence about this manipulation. So I totally agree with this that come let us face the fact the Bitcoin is totally unpredictable though it is perhaps quite not feasible to say that ain't no factors are affecting this sudden changes.

i disagree. it is just as hard as it has ever been, not harder nor easier. we can't really use the one case (scaling bitcoin) as the reference. that change turned into a war and took more then 3 years to conclude. otherwise other changes aren't seeing any opposition like that. for instance checking addition of Schnorr signatures isn't, even though it is a big protocol change (adding new signature scheme, new OP code, new address,...).

as for reddit haters, they are just angry because they think their shitcoin bags lost value only because bitcoin price came down from $20k! these people are slowly going away as their losses enter 90% range.

Yeah and these sites only has major effects on new traders and holders. Most of us that have been here for quite some time have seen a lot already to believe in these news, whether they're positive or negative. In my experience, I feel more comfortable not looking all the time at what's going on in the crypto world. There will be times when it affects you even if you try not to be affected. Sometimes you have to accept the randomness of BTC and the entire market's movements.

You really cannot fight everyone, there are several groups now in the crypto space and everyone has their own ideas and wants to come up with their version of the digital currency and the main motive is power and money and you cannot change anything, if people are divided for a long time let them divide and the best version wins the general public vote and their investment. Majority does not care whether these coins are centralized or not all they need to know is whether that can give them the profit they are looking for.

as if the news is the main point in price movements they associate this with that is happening in the market ,it's all just gossip and not according to facts bitcoin prices are not certain and I'm sure some patterns are the same but not sequential because of the creation of overlapping prices between this and that market ,sometimes the news makes people panic but it will return to normal even higher as it has happened

Yet, it is being tied again to the statement of Chinese President Xi Jinping about the blockchain technology which is a positive one.
Yes it cannot be stopped specially to those who create videos in Youtube.
They have to find something to put bitcoin or any other coin be connected to something else even if some of them are already lies.

It will still be best to stay here and read old timers explanation than those analyst wannabe.

So you are targeting technical traders on here? I can say that those points you do said was actually true or which do happen real-time with btc price.
No indicator or tools can give out precise predictions towards on where it will go but people do still use these tools to strengthen up their presumptions
rather than making some positions without any basis which we can say that this kind of trading is pure gambling.

I don't think especially crypto journalists, most media sites just publish the facts, and then go on Twitter to see what people are saying (or reddit, or bitcointalk, etc.) and use that to form arguments around those lines.

But you're right. Even from very early on I saw quickly that the market's simply not reached that stage yet where events shake sentiment so easily.

I still think of the biggest Bitcoin events (the hardfork for example) and they didn't really affect price did they?

There is no sense of dealing with their emotions, they are too much affected when they saw unexpected ups and downs. Considering the fact that we are still relying on market demand, we can't simply think that prices may stabilize. If we can figure out, the constant change of price trends reminds us always that crypto still a decentralized market, yet whales could sometimes play but not it reaches the point that it controlled the market.

The market isn't that old yet to make sense out of every movement or find a sequence in trends.
Crypto market is really small. Because of which any whale could easily manipulate the price movement. That is why, you don't find much reasoning behind such significant change in price. This isn't a good thing for the crypto space as such uncertainty keeps traditional traders away from the market. 

Why do you think that a hash attack is automatically a 51% double attack and the only one that would hurt bitcoin? Stop thinking the attack will be for only immediate financial gains for the attacker, there are many more incentives to launch one, and not one that large is necessary.
Imagine a pool with 20% running with subsidized cost by someone mining empty blocks.
Who would do that? I can name a lot of possible perpetrators from entire lunatic government services that want to test doomsday scenarios to simply an altcoin owner who wants to prove PoW is not reliable (EOS had 4 billions to burn) or a service that will launch its own crypto payment or anyone else.

The chain is safe because of the immense hashrate, unlike ETC .
Remember what a spam attack did, combine that with even a 20% drop in the capacity you know the consequences...

Although natural and logical hash rate dropping is dangerous, not damaging but dangerous.

An attack on the chain is complicated right now because of the price of the gear and most important the availability. You have to bribe lots of miners and while paying them more to get the hashrate by magic make sure the short time demand doesn't push the price increasingly higher.

But, with less profitability miners turn their machines off by themselves, dropping the costs for the attack but far, more importantly, creating a large supply of available gear that can be rented or even bought for pennies.

For example, right now we're at 90 exa, you would need close to two million s17 to match this if you can't rent anything, 4 damn billions. Even if you had the money no chipmaker will be able to match the order in a month or two.
What if the price drops to 3000 and we're back at the panic level that would put everything not matching 40j/th on hold?
Almost all the gear that was mining last October (around 40exa) would be turned off this time for sure and just increasing the number of miners that can be bought at scrap metal prices.
From billions, the whole attack will be ready for a few hundred millions...

You made a valid point here, you corrected the impression made by OP where he emphasized that bitcoin price movement is not tied to anything You mentioned four fundamental news evidences that was responsible for the previous pump and dump price in the price of bitcoin which was conspicuously seen and glaring, the OP should had back up those claims with evidences this will convince us more.

Lucky if it’s correction but what it a trap?as you have already mentioned the unpredictable market movement and the volatility as well that makes the market more risky

But we need to be tough and willing to gamble for us to succeed here,because the more you risk is the higher profit you might have

Hash rate dropping is not itself centralizing. It's a natural and expected response to price speculation. It's not damaging to Bitcoin. Bulls just don't like to imagine a world where hash rate and price aren't constantly rising.

People switching to altcoins is also bullish for BTC. The altcoin markets attract BTC supply away from the fiat markets. Altcoin investors also buy BTC to send to altcoin exchanges. These factors increase demand for BTC while decreasing available supply.


As time goes on, it's getting harder and harder to make sweeping changes to the protocol. Three things are happening: stakeholders (miners, businesses) are becoming increasingly entrenched, the supply is becoming increasingly distributed, and gullible retail investors are selling their stacks to smart money.

You saw what happened with the block size debate. It's only become more difficult to co-opt Bitcoin since then. I really think the maximalists who are concerned about this stuff (or about "altcoin scammers") are wasting their time and energy.

Bitcoin's price, adoption and decentralization are all tied together - if Bitcoin would become less popular and cheaper, the hashrate would drop, and it would be easier to centralize the network. So, anything that convinces people to switch away from Bitcoin is damaging to Bitcoin as a whole. It's easy to dismiss people just because they don't have a lot of coins or not run nodes, but this is how average user is gonna look like if we want to reach mass adoption, so every opinion matters. Which is why I'm worried that people are so easily manipulated in crypto.

What does their "support" amount to though? People like this don't run full nodes and may not even own BTC. What influence do you think they have over the Bitcoin network?

I'm not worried about a bunch of altcoiners chattering on Reddit. They can vote with their feet and dump their BTC into stronger hands, not much else.

If people believe everything they hear from crypto new sites, they can be manipulated in many ways, including to support changes that can harm Bitcoin's decentralization. For example, the /r/Cryptocurrency subreddit has been hating Bitcoin for a long time already and almost everyone there is a fan of some centralized altcoin.

That's true and also people must be careful to this hype news about bitcoin price because sometimes this rising of bitcoin price have follows a correction. No one  can predict and can't say why bitcoin is pumping and down the price. There's no correct explanation those journalist spread a news without exact basis.

'God created the universe and the rest was made in china' this quote seems so relatable that nowadays everything happened in this world always involved china. Is it really that big? The china impact? Yes it is especially when it comes to cryptocurrency where it's claimed that china are largely responsible for cryptocurrency's success not only because Chinese contribution on the market volume and a lot of huge bitcoin miners are come from china due electricity factor.

It's just classic china.

They only need to pull the trigger and the rest let the crowd make it wild!

What does any of this have to do with decentralization?

The tendency for people to irrationally link price moves with news or to fall for FUD isn't limited to Bitcoin. It happens in all markets because of human psychology:


People want easy answers like "good news caused everyone to buy." They can't wrap their head around abstract ideas like "supply and demand" which are determined by endless millions of variables.

Halving and the affects of demand and supply isn't really the only ones affecting the price movements in the market. You know why? Because FUD and FOMO are real it may not be related to all the news being tied up by the crypto news sites we are seeing but real world news can really affect the market. One of the worst dumps we have seen this year is when the hashrate went down by 40% it immediately crossed any bullish opportunities Bitcoin has because of the massive offloading that came after. This is just one of the few events related to Bitcoin that really affected its price.

I think this is their way of making a speculative chart by adding some random events that has nothing to do with the market. This seems to look the same when every time bitcoin is in bullish trend, some random website starting to create FUDs out of nowhere then the weak handed people start to dump as usual since they don't trust their investment. Bitcoin is the future and people should trust on that specially their investment.

I totally agree with your first paragraph. Not even only journalist but also 'self-proclaimed' Bicton analyst.
I have come to understand that  them making up stories or prediction is another way they sell themselves, products or services.
You don't blame them also, it is because during every price dumps, investors just want to associate something to be the cause. So the journalist and analysts easily do that for them.

Yes I actually I have accepted it too. I won't say it's absolutely unpredictable but alteast it's very hard to predict it using traditional methods of trading. I think bitcoin has been known for making certain excellent movements but almost all of them have defied the charts and patterns. Everyone just two days ago were talking about how bitcoin could go into a bearish phase because the charts say so and suddenly after a couple of greed days things look absolutely changed. I think we need to enhance our systems to make them fit to crypto marketplace.

Bitcoin doesn't need to be tied to anything.
I believe that at some stage, events that are external to Bitcoin will have an impact on it's price.

That was published three hours ago : https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-adds-76-6-billion-in-overnight-liquidity-11572270912

I wonder if this might be it. Their financial system would fail anyway, with or without BTC.
There was no major financial crisis since the birth of Bitcoin.

What will happen when their system fails ?

As Op mentioned whenever there is some growth, the same gets tied up with something happening around. This can be of economical, political or based on some news coming out of large scale firms. This is quite common, and the reason is based on bitcoin being a manipulative asset. With this growth most could've understood, bitcoin has got its own independent market and doesn't bother much about the market changes or political factors.

Same as the growth, by the time of fall also the same practice of relating with different sources were done commonly by journalists and speculators. What we have got with the growth is the effect of the halving and the demanding supply.

TOTALLY AGREE

I said in another thread how people always have to tie a fact to any price change of BTC
Analists always trying to predict the new trend, the price etc, but it makes no sense, we can follow some parameters to help us maximize our prediction, but it's only "predictions", and BTC have different pattern, it's not always because some news that BTC changes in price

That isn't really healthy a situation.
Such a major price jump that too without any trigger shows how this crypto space is largely manipulated. Few bulk hodlers play with the market in whatever way they want. I don't have any problem with the jump of a few hundreds. But $3k jump in 24 hrs that too with no fundamental reason doesn't make much sense. Then there are news which states that even the volume was fake. How you gonna bring traditional investors towards crypto trading in such a scenario. Fundamentals are really important.

what do you think is the reason why btc rise this time?

blockchain projects in china are increasing which some government departments are involve on these token projects. Xijinping couldn't be the reason for this rise but people i guess are seeing it a positive sign that the Chinese are buying BTC to buy the tokens they have in their country. but then of course we still can bring the price down as long as someone can figure by another negative news.

I know this is true and most of us traders here have seen the price movement before even the news comes up but the problem here is these crypto news sites are so perseverant on looking for some news tying it to Bitcoin's movement. These have been more relevant if it had shown its connection before the price movement but almost all the time it comes after the price movement which we cannot really use on our trades at all. It's all just noise at the end, a noise that we can't use.

It will continue as years goes by and i do see that this is just normal for a very volatile market.Come to think that even on traditional market
like forex and stocks do still have this kind of scenario when we do talk about Fuds and Fomo things.So crypto space isnt on the exclusion.
The thing here is that people should really be aware into these situations on what they would gonna do when it do happens.

This makes me sad and worried about the Bitcoin market, how are we going to curb volatility if people believe in crap like that and refuse to listen to logical arguments? How can we protect decentralization if users are so easily manipulated by crypto news sites?

Bitcoin is 10 years old, yet it seems like almost no progress was made in terms of community maturity, people still fall for the most blatant FUD and FOMO.

People's opinion regarding bitcoin somewhat represents the traders' sentiments when they trade, but not always. But the truth still stands: bitcoin isn't directly controlled by news, people, other investments/assets and whatever. It still remains as a free market not influenced by outside factors for most of the time. See China, Brexit and other geopolitical issues that have been affecting the traditional investments? It doesn't do damage to bitcoin and even if did, only a small part of it is, usually those people who are directly affected by such issues are moving/trading accordingly with those.

Just an observation based on 30 + years of being a mortgage backed and Treasuries derivatives trader. Right now BTC is a very non liquid vehicle. It is traded by and followed by a lot of very inexperienced investors and speculators. OP is spot on, except left out the most important piece of his conclusion. The media and social media guppies are extremely gullible and easy to fool and manipulate. We as large institutional traders find so much easy money in  the manipulation of the crypto space namely BTC. The majority of people with money in these assets read, and listen to, and react to this utter "bullcrap" put out there in the media. Most of those stories are deliberate "plants". We call it "Astro Turfing". Large speculators create a very negative fundamental story at or near low points that causes people to sell their holdings and amateur speculators to place shorts in the protocol. All the while we are accumulating massive long positions. The exact opposite is done at the highs. Traders have been establishing short positions in BTC since $ 13,500 ish on down to $9,000.00. It is extremely difficult to buy these shorts back in such large volume let alone establish the opposite long position with the low liquidity. So...we create a narrative by planting stories and postings and Social Media entries etc etc. Then the ducks come quaking. So, we feed them. The same exercise is done in reverse for long positions. I am safe in sharing this here with all of you because truth is, no one will believe me. But, That's the beauty of it. This is done in all markets. It's just easiest in BTC right now. It's been going on in the stock market for decades. A much higher level game. Yesterday's price action was not only very predictable but "set up" as shorts covered their positions and switched to " net long" from $9,000 down to $7,400.00. You would all do well for the time being to buy weakness in the price of BTC. The process is still in play. Then when the "news" is extremely good and price is high, get out. You will be in good company.

Bro, give it up!!! You can't hold the fort!!! It was the Chinese!!
Do you honestly think you can talk sense in an army of zombies?

Let's see the effects, XI makes his speech on the 24th. On the 25th (Chinese time) the news is aired all over China.
But!!!
Nothing happens!
But at 3-4 PM European time, and at 1 AM in the morning (on a SATURDAY) in China, the pump happens!

It was of course because of the Chinese running at midnight to their ATMs (ops, they don't have that in China), .. well-doing something else, (since the banks are closed) and ...they bought bitcoin!!! The Chinese miracle!!!!

Of course, we have to figure out how the previous pump in June that took us from 7700 to 13 500 happened without China, but, I have the feeling it was also becuase of China.

That's a valid question, the rise and drop of prices in the market only means that people are buying and selling it, and why they are buying and selling it, buyers are buying it because of future profit, and sellers are selling because they are already in profit, if people do not consider Bitcoin as an investment then why look and comment in the market, and most of all why HODL it?

Just my opinion not meant to offend anyone here

It is actually tied to public opinion. Whenever people feel like it may fall and actually have bitcoins to sell they sell their bitcoins and price falls. Whenever they feel like it will go up and they have fiat they buy bitcoin and it goes up. Thats why its tied to public opinion. But, even that is not really mattering these days because even when most of the people think one thing whales could do another and price could change contrary to what people thinks.

Most people see this as "bitcoin moving against the public opinion" but that is not really true, whales are people too and it moves according to what they believe so its still considered "public opinion" just not what most of the public thinks but only a small portion of rich public thinks so its still true.

It is natural that the crypto journalist like to find news to attract people who are looking for the reason why the market went high or down and hence we are seeing these for a long time and it is continuing till this time and even with this rally there are many news article that the Chinese authorities acceptance of blockchain shifted the market  .

Even i do not believe in patterns in the short term but there is a reason for the rally and it is not cut straight to understand why there was a massive investment in the market.

Yes, I don't think that is because of Tether criminals, perhaps it's because of something else. We know that bitcoin can increase and decrease without any reason, and it depends on the market movements by the traders. But the news can also impact the bitcoin market price, so we might think that is because of manipulation from some group of people.

We need to be wise related to the market movements so we can act based on the market moving. And that will be another good lesson for us, and we can take the point of the experience which we will use for us in the future.

We already know bitcoin is unpredictable and it sometimes give surprise pump and dump from time to time but I disagree that the price pump is not tied with anything. There are a lot of things that can be the reason why the price right now, it could be the supply and demand of bitcoin or could be just one of the doings of whales trying to play on the investors mind. Lets face it, bitcoin can be tied with anything and sometimes with one very influential person talking about bitcoin then price change.

Vaporware.

Ever since blockchain hype started, its fanboys tried to distance themselves from Bitcoin, which was coined in the "blockchain, not bitcoin" phrase, you can dig up a ton of articles about bankers, governments officials, investors, economists saying the same thing - that they are excited about "blockchain technology", but don't see any future for Bitcoin. People who praise blockchain are very likely to be anti-Bitcoin.

Unfortunately, newbies on this forum think that Bitcoin, crypto and blockchain all mean the same thing, so they get excited when someone talks positively about the last two.

Not exactly mate I think something different is being planned this time as they are not letting bitcoin to stay at high value for long time and user are getting smart day by day and cannot be fooled everytime, we need to hold on to our wallets to fail them in their manipulation.  This time it doesn't matter whether it's a pump or dump unless it last for weeks because daily pump and scheduled dumps will not work anymore as we have already learnt the lesson in hard way.

It is fun thing to say though but how those drastic movements or changes did happened without any interference in any of the entity outside. Let us say that it is not and it never did but I don't think it will go that way specially with such a range of time. Just an hour it really did go spiked up, there's story may lead onto something unrealistic but it really could be one of those. Besides there's no one forcing us to believe and let us embrace it. It might be a fake news but at least we are aware of the possible situations outside.

Xi talked about Blockchain technology and didn't mention Bitcoin however what is the first thing that comes to mind when you hear "Blockchain"? It's obviously Bitcoin.

According to a reporter overnight Universities added Blockchain courses in China so the impact is very huge already.

If it was whale manipulation it wouldn't of went this high without crashing down shortly after. It's not short covering either since most were liquidated when $8800 area was first hit not when it went to $10600.

It is. Bitcoin is strongly tied to Whale manipulation. You would not have such sudden growth and falls if that would not be the case. People usually complain when price drops that market is manipulated. But is is same manipulated t such growth that just happened yesterday. It is all orchestrated by whales. They steal small traders money this way.

I wouldn't call it a good smokecreen, though apparently it works, but if so, that's even more the reason to disregard such new/explanations. You can't time when exactly these institutions would initiate the pump, maybe tomorrow Trump will tweet that he loves Bitcoin, but institutions won't even flinch, cause they don't have plans for buying at that time.

It very likely is not the reason, but definitely a solid smoke screen for institutions to initiate a pump. It's something we see happen with stocks as well. Institutions tend to leverage certain news events to either buy or sell large stock quantities. It's just their way of getting people to blame x/y/z news event for the price to either pump or dump, and not a particular entity.

If we look at the actual fiat volumes on exchanges such as Coinbase, Kraken, Bitstamp, etc it's mind boggling how much activity there is during a saturday. This is actual fiat being pumped into Bitcoin, not recycled USDT tokens. Institutional bots are going absoluty nuts. No way that this is driven by retailers.

@everyone who says that Xi's statements pumped BTC

Guys, this is nuts, he didn't say anything about Bitcoin, he talked about "blockchain technology", which has absolutely no relation to Bitcoin, the Chinese government is not interested in adopting Bitcoin. This isn't the first time China or other big government talked about blockchain, and it never caused a pump like this - it's clear as a day that it was a coincidence. I see people already started making memes how Xi pumped BTC, but please, don't spread them, cause it's just blatant misinformation that creates false impressions. You will 100% lose your money if you try to base your trades on such irrelevant news.

Yea. Pretty much we can relate it to everything we want, to new releases, inconceivable updates by companies, new creation of exchanges and such but movement is strictly still related to.. well.. how it wants to move. We can derive a lot of possibilities but the answer will always remain a mystery. Although we could still assume movement prices to recent events since it could potentially move it, but at the same time theres a risk of it not being able to move the price.
You can't really say that since there's no proof. Even if BTC did increase as china announced its strong support for blockchain development, we could also say that it was due to me taking a coin out of my wallet right? Even if you say there's a difference in reputation, there are also a lot of events that are made by other famous personalities or companies.

Nice advise, this market can still be manipulated so anyone with a power to move the market can certainly do it.
What happen today is the what crypto is known for, its volatile but its bullish because we are still in the early stage.

People are associating this pump to president Xi Jinping statement about their plan on accelerating on blockchain development but I see more than this that were not yet written in an online article, soon, we will see post about the reasons of this pump, I will surely enjoy reading their theories.

Current changes in the market are definetely the lesson that Bitcoin price could be very unpredictable and lesson to those who start to panic with every price drop.
After a slight dump we have a sharp rise but it's hard to tell how this is going to end.
So all those conspiracy theories about manipulation of the price and market and ties to this or that interest gropu don't seem to make sense.

In fact Bitcoin strongly tied to the world’s biggest nation, China. it's suddenly rising today because Xi Jinping announced that China wants to dominate the blockchain industry and they want to be the leader in blockchain. This might be the biggest news in the history of blockchain. so the increase of volatility is expected after the dampening of volatility which was happening on the weekly and monthly.

Also there is another reason, Chinese whales usually do their pump and dump around December, in preparation for their Chinese New Year celebrations in January. nothing about bitcoin has changed except a rising hash rate, which equates to strong miner confidence in BTC price growth over the next six months until the halving.

And then here we go again. It reached 10k in just a day. Whew.
Didn't expect that. I hope those analysts also does.

There have been a lot of tension lately and it is almost like a FUD to everyone. Now, what will they say?
I hope this is the 2nd lesson to anyone who would like to come in to the crypto business.
They are all alive when bitcoin is being dumped. Now? They are silent.

Today, the CoinMarketCap table shows Bitcoin growth of 28 percent. If yesterday the price of bitcoin rose to $ 8,381, now its price is already $ 9,603. The growth is impressive, and of course, each raises the question: what is the reason for such rapid growth. Despite the fact that it is argued that there are no real reasons for this and the price of bitcoin has risen for no reason, I think that in all cases there are reasons for such a sharp increase in prices on the cryptocurrency market. Maybe we will find out a little later.

While this is true in some points, it could be also due to China's president statement about the support of the government to blockchain-related technologies. But take note that he said 'blockchain' and not 'bitcoin' which may have made some confusion. Let's just hope it's not tied to anything and it's not just another bubble that would burst sooner than we might think. It's really difficult to predict the causes of these pumps and dumps but it's likely to be caused by some whales in the market.

Yes, I agree short term its hard to predict where the price is going to be. So as traders you really need to squeeze out to get something out of the market.

Just today alone based on coinmarketcap, bitcoin is having a field day and making gains of 30%, I mean, what the hell? Where's all the money coming from and what is the "logical" reason? No one can really tell because it's random and most of the time it's good if we ignore those patterns.

Yes, Bitcoin is very unpredictable that even credible analysts sometimes can have a hard time deciphering its movement. Bitcoin's volatility can be an amazing thing to study. Of course, the media and some personalities who are into cryptocurrency will have a lot of hours to think as to what to they can attribute the flash rise which occurred after the flash crash just a day or two. Anyway, that is their job to talk about it because they are actually content producers but we don't have to believe the garbage they are pushing to us. Sometimes I realize that some people involved with cryptocurrency news have less understand with Bitcoin compared to me, and that is a very modest assessment. Unlike forex and stocks which most likely can be affected with news and developments in different areas of the world, Bitcoin can go up and can go down on its own and will not care the world outside its own ecosystem. I am not sure though if we can say this is good or bad, as a whole.

Not really about Bitcoin but more on blockchain tech but we can't set aside this posibility.

From yesterdays $7,500 level now its breaking $10,000 this market makes me nervous but a lot excitement and a lot of investors didn't see this coming. Bitcoin is out of being a temporary stablecoin, but lets enjoy the ride and stay cautious.

But there is a News from China to embrace Blockchain technology, this might be an additional incentive that makes the price to jump upward. have a look at the News here: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-jumps-12-as-chinas-xi-embraces-blockchain-boosting-crypto-sentiment

Exactly. People try to explain the underlying principles of every single bitcoin price movement that they see. A lot of the times there is simply no single or rational explanation.

Market forces move in very unpredictable ways and it's essentially pointless to justify why they act a certain way. Otherwise you're assuming that everyone is rational - which we know they aren't. One small price movement due to natural volatility can spark long or short squeezes as well.

But it sure seems like that BTC has found a bottom at around $7k, and we may well enter into another phase of bullishness.

If that's the bottom line of what happened for bitcoin price today, did you mean we need not to look on patterns? Short terms is quite surprising to see, because nobody expected this 14% rise to accumulate on that price of $1K. If we're holding huge amount of btc, just keep it safe and just wait patiently for what price it may be compatible with and going to stabilized at higher value.

Meanwhile, we must accept the fact of bitcoin's unpredictability and always bare in mind now that no matter how you monitor charts and other discussions just to fulfill your ideas, the scenario still remain unexplained.

Once doesn't mean anything, Bitcoin is not known to strongly correlate with gold.


News that directly involve Bitcoin are the only one's that can actually move it. But they need to be large enough, because no one cares if some small third-world country bans or adopts it.


Bitcoin was very small back then, so anything in its ecosystem could move it. Today exchange hacks and darknet-related arrests don't have any effect.


Futures may have some influence, but they are a part of the market, so it's expected.


If the pres of the most influential country in the world criticizes Bitcoin, that's kinda important, but if it's a small fry like Dimon, it doesn't matter.

It's tied to everything that's why it's so volatile. I saw it go down when gold was going down once. It's tied to the governments because it went down when China banned mining. It's tied to the black market because it went down when Ross was arrested. It's tied to the futures because it was going up when CME was about to open and then dropped down when it opened. It's even tied to Donald Trumps' and Jamie Dimon's tweets

Silly question. Why does thinking Bitcoin is a sound investment have to be a requirement to be part of the community? I love the technology, and I think Bitcoin is an amazing invention that will survive for a long time. But I don't think it's an investment. It should be used as a means of exchange and used by people who believe in its future, but not people who only look for an upward trend in its price graph.

It's not something that should be an 'investment', just like I wouldn't call gold an 'investment' (I'd call it a hedge). The price fluctuations as demonstrated today are part of that.

I always have a good laugh when self proclaimed experts talk about how Bitcoin will react to this or that geopolitical situation, while the truth however is that the movements seen that do align with these situations are pure coincidence.

If you browse through the hundreds of tradable assets, I'm sure a dozen will see similar price action, where the similarities between the avocado and Bitcoin charts were quite a topic not that long ago.

I was quite shocked by how hard the price has gone up. I was expecting some minor increase after a near 30% fall from when we broke out of that descending triangle, but this is beyond insane and might spark a recovery.

Coincidence or not, shill around its what makes all these more of a game. The effect of  fud can be measured by how much a coin had drop,  can be considered fundamental analysis if its on big news source. If this 14% growth has no reason, we can simply say a rich kid just experienced orgasm of his life buys BTC in million USD while we all sell and then once again pray for more kids. Every thing is a fud here including those big news sites. Xijinping is a fudster.

While all people here in my place is asleep since it just past midnight here I am being amazed on the huge pump BTC have and searching whats going now. I hope it's not really because of China cause I really want to believe that BTC can arise without them, I'm still reading some news and will stick to the part it's BTC alone the reason why its uptrend now. Excited for laters comment and price speculation up to how much it can reach today same with eth.

NO.

This is a good example of what I'm calling out in my post - there's no chance that a world leader praising "blockchain technology" - something that is only tangential to Bitcoin, would cause Bitcoin to go up by 14% instantly. Just google other similar news, look at dates and plot them over Bitcoin price chart - you'll find absolutely no correlations. So, what happened today was just a coincidence.

Isn't this price movement due to Chinese president adoring blockchain and wanted fast adoption in China?

The article in cointelegraph which their facebook account is now unblocked were full of comments from facebook users, I checked to see what the comments were and realize the price of BTC actually shoots way above the expectation this very day. If Chinese president says something like this, its highly regarded as a sign.

Why are you on here then?

The reason was simple: thin supply and strong demand. Same as every other markup in price. Explaining it with news or global market events is always a fool's errand.

Having said that, several experienced traders sensed we were at/near the bottom. The short term is unpredictable yes, but tried-and-true TA and trading experience will give you more insight into price moves than anything else.

Insane rally going on right now, but I'm willing to bet that tomorrow it'll drop down to 8000 or even lower again. There's not really anywhere near enough volume on the Bitcoin markets at any one time to give any semblance of a stable price. That's why Bitcoin is not something I'd consider an 'investment'

LOL, I agree with you there--I had to take a look at the price, which I'd checked maybe a couple of hours ago, and it was still at $7500 or so.  Now preev is showing bitcoin at $8614.  Crazy, crazy, crazy.

I've always said that the only thing that influences bitcoin's value is the buying and selling of it, and it's basically demand because supply is increasing at a known rate.  So right now there must have been a ton of buying in the last couple of hours to drive the price up this much this quickly.  It does bring a smile to my face, but I'm a realist--this doesn't necessarily indicate that bitcoin has found a direction and will continue to move upward.  As you said, the price is random and unpredictable and who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Still smiling, though.  It's great to see bitcoin jump that high so fast.   Hee hee!

Short term price movements are very difficult, if not impossible to predict.

Medium to long term price direction predictions are very possible though due to many things such as the halving & reduced supply.

As you know, every time there's a major price movements, the next day people, especially crypto journalists, start coming up with their own explanations why it happened - they try to tie it to some political or economical events in the world, statements by important individuals or organizations, correlation with some other markets, something related to mining and so on and so on.

Well, today Bitcoin went up by 14% ($1,000) without absolutely no reason - nothing important happened today that could have shaken the price so much. Let this be a lesson to people who look for patterns - Bitcoin is random and unpredictable in short terms, just accept it.