Let's have a serious talk about high risks.

knightmairesaint

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privacy preserving smart contracts and beyond

Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

Yes I agree. The price crash serves as the filter for those who care only about profit and those who don't. Only those who are dedicated to achieve some goal rather than profit will left and the others will be gone. Though its not bad to just carenabout profit, but that's not all that really matters. There many things to consider when it comes to crypto world. Crypto people should contribute something to the crypto world so that it will cherish for many days to come.

Jully Bells

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The rapid increase of bitcoin can cause an imbalance of supply and demand. At the same time, as the product of the algorithm, completely exchanged on the internet, bitcoin is the bait of cybercriminals. This currency is easy to "evaporate" when there are any trading fluctuations. This currency is also used in the underworld, where governments can not keep track of money laundering, prohibited purchases, and crime. And the biggest risk is that many central banks deny the value of the currency. Bitcoin will continue to grow, attracting investors because the profits that this virtual currency bring is very attractive. However, this is also the most risky currency.

Bone Collector

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Trading markets are just for risks takers, people know what theyre doing in the first place. Thats why everyone should set aside emotions no matter what happen, even the market market crash sometimes people always see hope. Traders are good example of strong people willing to take risks in order gain profit.

MyIdeas

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Quote from: CryptoBry on July 23, 2017, 10:59:34 PM

Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

A crash can be an impetus for a new beginning though of course there would be people whose assets can lose some value. In the case of some altcoins, the problem is that there is only a limited market so sometimes the opportunity for a bounce back can be so little. This is based on my own experience while being a newbie trader in Bittrex as some coins can be traps.

Nice explanation given though. I have the same view about market cap figures. They are so decisive. As far as bitcoin and altcoin comparison is concerned, it’s just like comparing king with his slave. Bitcoins have huge support which altcoins are lacking.

Basmic

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Quote from: TheFriends on July 28, 2017, 06:24:30 AM

I think many altcoins will die unfortunately, because they have no strong communities, nor development. It's just clones.

So investing in clones of Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero is a risk.

I think smart contracts can be a good investment.

For me it is not important. If there is a market for altcoins it is always busy. Will disappear one currency and in their place will appear the other. I like it. They always give the opportunity to earn. For example mine bitcoin now are not profitable and altcoins is given the opportunity.

TheFriends

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I think many altcoins will die unfortunately, because they have no strong communities, nor development. It's just clones.

So investing in clones of Bitcoin, Litecoin and Monero is a risk.

I think smart contracts can be a good investment.

syaripudin

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Bitcoin is a crypto currency. I think no one can predict how grapic will happen. This can benefit. But can also get a loss. Many people assume that is different. But at the moment I think it's just an increase in investors in bitcoin. This will make the bitcoin higher in value. This will trigger everyone to invest in bitcoin. I think bitcoin is an investment that will be much preferred among investors. It just takes some time maybe longer

Trela

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Quote from: Przemax on July 22, 2017, 01:23:21 PM

People are making the assumption that a speculation money makes investing more risky. I would say that the contrary is true. Speculative money are buying when its low and selling when its high making the price more stable. What is making the price fluctuate is not the fault of the speculative money, but the get rich quick scheme money. Such a get rich quick scheme money get either discouraged if a price is stable, or it became panicky if the price is going down.

On the current stage of being, I would say that speculative money is too concentrated in few hands, and there are too many get rich quick Joes, thats why the price is so unstable.

In recently, I know a huge number investor from other market and make money online joined crypto market and become to "trader". But most "trader" are the type speculator and they not have experience or knowlegde about cryptocurrency. So, when use emotion to trading, they become to subjects helps whale and big boy control the price on market.

ss890

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There are few things we need to consider first while implementing idea of crypto. You are being very realistic here that

Quote

We can keep our $100B market cap if each and every one of you goes out and sets up shop with bitcoin or helps an existing business integrate crypto in less than a month

but what do you think happening of it would be possible.? There are less chances because when bitcoin was made it was done as asset where we can store our valuable fiat currency or can tarde it.

It was never meant to use in the groceries or industries to pay but slowly the idea has started popping because few of them thought of it. So we can just wait for official changes to happen and big companies to jump in.

deisik

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Quote from: Przemax on July 22, 2017, 01:23:21 PM

People are making the assumption that a speculation money makes investing more risky. I would say that the contrary is true. Speculative money are buying when its low and selling when its high making the price more stable. What is making the price fluctuate is not the fault of the speculative money, but the get rich quick scheme money. Such a get rich quick scheme money get either discouraged if a price is stable, or it became panicky if the price is going down

I beg to differ

I don't really see how you are going to distinguish between the speculative money and the money which serves as a vehicle for getting rich (fast). It is a modus operandi, so to speak, for every speculator to get rich as fast as possible. This is what making profits means as such but it is not just about making profits, it is about making more profits but making more profits necessarily means making them faster any way you look at it. What you likely meant to say is more about novice and panicky traders, but in terms of their aims (i.e. profits), all speculators are born equal

CryptoBry

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

A crash can be an impetus for a new beginning though of course there would be people whose assets can lose some value. In the case of some altcoins, the problem is that there is only a limited market so sometimes the opportunity for a bounce back can be so little. This is based on my own experience while being a newbie trader in Bittrex as some coins can be traps.

WoodySpoon

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Quote from: The_prodigy on July 23, 2017, 07:59:38 AM

However it has repercussions as well as a price crash can lead to panic and lack of investors due to the fickleness of bitcoin.

Good point, however, I think with more investors entering overtime we should see some stability in BTC etc as they reach their estimated worth. I still think we're a while off that stage personally.

I don't think anyone is considering bitcoin as a stable investment at this stage, at least nobody who is able to interpret a graph.

The_prodigy

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

I kinda agree with the above statement but inly due to the fact that sometimes a depression or something is needed to clear the existing accounts to start a fresh new one. However it has repercussions as well as a price crash can lead to panic and lack of investors due to the fickleness of bitcoin.

Przemax

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People are making the assumption that a speculation money makes investing more risky. I would say that the contrary is true. Speculative money are buying when its low and selling when its high making the price more stable. What is making the price fluctuate is not the fault of the speculative money, but the get rich quick scheme money. Such a get rich quick scheme money get either discouraged if a price is stable, or it became panicky if the price is going down.

On the current stage of being, I would say that speculative money is too concentrated in few hands, and there are too many get rich quick Joes, thats why the price is so unstable.

Cryptiko

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Risk isn't too bad as long as you don't commit too much of your net worth to it.

pressureonme

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Quote from: bobitza on July 21, 2017, 11:58:29 AM

I see some guys are talking about the risk of gambling, really stupid, people are talking about the work to make money with bitcoin, gambling is no exception, but the risks here Not dependent on the market, it should not be evaluated the same.

I observe those people too the risks are taken by us prior to the trade/gambling/transaction. This is the reality of the cryptocurrency markeys. Then we make the action after we took the risks.

tittensor

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Quote from: bobitza on July 21, 2017, 11:58:29 AM

I see some guys are talking about the risk of gambling, really stupid, people are talking about the work to make money with bitcoin, gambling is no exception, but the risks here Not dependent on the market, it should not be evaluated the same.

Why not, when you starting an order and not use your brain, just by your emotion and decided that, you will play gambling and it not is trading. Are you know the different between type trading have calculator with trading just by fomo, emontion, lucky ...?

bobitza

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I see some guys are talking about the risk of gambling, really stupid, people are talking about the work to make money with bitcoin, gambling is no exception, but the risks here Not dependent on the market, it should not be evaluated the same.

OracionSeis

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Quote from: sana54210 on July 21, 2017, 11:02:52 AM

Quote from: markjamrobin on July 20, 2017, 02:07:23 AM

Quote from: v0rtecxz on July 18, 2017, 08:00:50 AM

Quote from: ecnalubma on July 12, 2017, 05:38:44 AM

Stock market is not safe haven for everybody all commodities are vulnerable to crash even the most stable one on the line. Thats why investing in stock market serious and tough call. Decisions matters its very important and sometimes you need to execute thorough research before you engage in any investments like cryptos.

Yes I agree with your opinion, the stock market is not a safe place, anyone can lose in it, maybe many of them just want to reap the benefits without learning how to predict and minimize the risk that will arise, and they will only get the loss , And as you said as well as his first to learn to minimize the loss or risk that will overwhelm you,

Of course, anything has two sides, if you want to make money quickly, you must accept the risks, luck is indispensable. Conversely, if you want to be safe, do not get into the stock market, work your way up.

It is good if you are taking high risk but it will be much better if the risk is calculated and preferably be with a feasibility report if you have the expertise to calculate it. I am taking about taking a high risk with trading and investments otherwise the gamblers are always at a high risk when they are gambling.

No earning opportunity is risk free; you have to make the difference of the risk by yourself which could be a making or a breaking point for you.

Trading different from Gambling about the risk when investing. When you trading need calculator the stop loss, target take profit, technical analysic ... before starting an order and you will control all your money with your brain and can minimize the loss to smallest.
But with gambling can't do that, just by lucky and you can loss your money anytime, although still have some strategy management the funds in gambling

sana54210

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Quote from: markjamrobin on July 20, 2017, 02:07:23 AM

Quote from: v0rtecxz on July 18, 2017, 08:00:50 AM

Quote from: ecnalubma on July 12, 2017, 05:38:44 AM

Stock market is not safe haven for everybody all commodities are vulnerable to crash even the most stable one on the line. Thats why investing in stock market serious and tough call. Decisions matters its very important and sometimes you need to execute thorough research before you engage in any investments like cryptos.

Yes I agree with your opinion, the stock market is not a safe place, anyone can lose in it, maybe many of them just want to reap the benefits without learning how to predict and minimize the risk that will arise, and they will only get the loss , And as you said as well as his first to learn to minimize the loss or risk that will overwhelm you,

Of course, anything has two sides, if you want to make money quickly, you must accept the risks, luck is indispensable. Conversely, if you want to be safe, do not get into the stock market, work your way up.

It is good if you are taking high risk but it will be much better if the risk is calculated and preferably be with a feasibility report if you have the expertise to calculate it. I am taking about taking a high risk with trading and investments otherwise the gamblers are always at a high risk when they are gambling.

No earning opportunity is risk free; you have to make the difference of the risk by yourself which could be a making or a breaking point for you.

bitllionaire

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Quote from: v0rtecxz on July 18, 2017, 08:00:50 AM

Quote from: ecnalubma on July 12, 2017, 05:38:44 AM

Stock market is not safe haven for everybody all commodities are vulnerable to crash even the most stable one on the line. Thats why investing in stock market serious and tough call. Decisions matters its very important and sometimes you need to execute thorough research before you engage in any investments like cryptos.

Yes I agree with your opinion, the stock market is not a safe place, anyone can lose in it, maybe many of them just want to reap the benefits without learning how to predict and minimize the risk that will arise, and they will only get the loss , And as you said as well as his first to learn to minimize the loss or risk that will overwhelm you,

in fact risk is always there in every kind of investment or trading. either you have invested your money in stockk market or anywhere elso. so if you want to make money from bitcoin you need to take risk and there is no other way through which you can make money without involving risk.

markjamrobin

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Quote from: v0rtecxz on July 18, 2017, 08:00:50 AM

Quote from: ecnalubma on July 12, 2017, 05:38:44 AM

Stock market is not safe haven for everybody all commodities are vulnerable to crash even the most stable one on the line. Thats why investing in stock market serious and tough call. Decisions matters its very important and sometimes you need to execute thorough research before you engage in any investments like cryptos.

Yes I agree with your opinion, the stock market is not a safe place, anyone can lose in it, maybe many of them just want to reap the benefits without learning how to predict and minimize the risk that will arise, and they will only get the loss , And as you said as well as his first to learn to minimize the loss or risk that will overwhelm you,

Of course, anything has two sides, if you want to make money quickly, you must accept the risks, luck is indispensable. Conversely, if you want to be safe, do not get into the stock market, work your way up.

Pakboy

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM

We all saw this coming.
It's about that time.
I'll tell you what. We can keep our $100B market cap if each and every one of you goes out and sets up shop with bitcoin or helps an existing business integrate crypto in less than a month. Colds calls, door to door, vistaprint, hail marry.

I don't believe in that. I don't want to. I believe people are going to start taking high risks. The only thing that's close to the reciprocal of the crash is something at 1 sat with nowhere to go but up.

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

All of the investment have a risk but many of them have a high risk. The higher the risk the higher the profit that you will earn and gain.

Monnt

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Quote from: CowboyKiller on July 16, 2017, 12:10:03 PM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 02:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

We are know the price of Cryptocurrency in few months ago are fake by bubble growth creating from March. After XRP rising up from @500 sat to @7500 sat and virus WannaCry use Bitcoin for extort, the crypto market has become a interesting place for investor anywhere on the world's, special people from HYIP, Ponzi, MLM ...
With that happens, it creating a wave growth and end in June! Now, all crypto in market are correction and falldown to real value

It's not about hacker used WannaCry. It was just to introduce bitcoin all around the world. People got the knowledge and got to know what bitcoin is. Bitcoin itself going great. Wannacry was just an accident by hackers. To get money from people by hacking there systems through virus. So I will tell you that there is no relation between wannacry and bitcoin. Bitcoin itself very great currency.

Proton2233

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All crypto currency is now used more for speculation than for trading. This contributes to the fact that we constantly see price spikes like on a roller coaster. The risk in speculative operations is always very high and it does not depend on currency.

Love!

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

That says it all.

People who see something as high risk tend to believe it's so because they see the hour to hour fluctuations as being the reason why the price is what it is.

v0rtecxz

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Quote from: ecnalubma on July 12, 2017, 05:38:44 AM

Stock market is not safe haven for everybody all commodities are vulnerable to crash even the most stable one on the line. Thats why investing in stock market serious and tough call. Decisions matters its very important and sometimes you need to execute thorough research before you engage in any investments like cryptos.

Yes I agree with your opinion, the stock market is not a safe place, anyone can lose in it, maybe many of them just want to reap the benefits without learning how to predict and minimize the risk that will arise, and they will only get the loss , And as you said as well as his first to learn to minimize the loss or risk that will overwhelm you,

deisik

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 18, 2017, 01:06:38 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 17, 2017, 01:12:15 PM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 17, 2017, 09:22:18 AM

Alright, alright, I see your point

Trading volume by itself does indeed say very little about how much money went into the market. I just find it problematic to argue against money entering the alt coin market solely based on the fact that the most commonly used metrics are imperfect. Especially since you could argue pretty much the same about money entering Bitcoin. But then again I guess that wasn't what you were trying to say in the first place

My point was in fact rather simple

The money which entered the altcoin bubble could not possibly fuel the Bitcoin bubble as well simply because the Bitcoin market is by far greater and vaster than any altcoin market taken separately or even all altcoin markets taken together (if we throw away that bullshit metric called "market cap"). I'd rather say it is the money that went into Bitcoin first that made altocoins grow too since some of this money got poured into them as well (minor part of it, obviously). The fact that major altcoins grew a lot more than Bitcoin (in relative terms) proves how tiny their respective markets are in comparison with that of Bitcoin. In other words, it doesn't take a lot to see them hurt

And here is where I disagree with you, because while we don't know exactly how much money went into alt coins, we still know that a lot of trade is taking place. Anecdotally people are using Bitcoin as a gateway to the alt coin market as that's often the easiest way to get money on exchanges. This too, drives the Bitcoin price, albeit admittedly to an unknown extent

What do you disagree with?

I guess you should first define what exactly you are disagreeing with. Could you name even one major exchange that wouldn't allow you to buy top altcoins directly with fiat? The exchanges that I know and personally trade at (Btc-e, Bitfinex) allow to buy any altcoin directly with the US dollar and a few other fiat currencies. Even if there are some obscure exchanges that list only one trading pair (say USD_BTC), they are utterly insignificant and inconsequential. The times when you should have first bought Bitcoin and then convert to an altcoin of your choice are long gone (at least, in respect to major altcoins). Even Coinbase is now selling Litecoin and Ethereum

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Quote from: deisik on July 17, 2017, 01:12:15 PM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 17, 2017, 09:22:18 AM

Alright, alright, I see your point

Trading volume by itself does indeed say very little about how much money went into the market. I just find it problematic to argue against money entering the alt coin market solely based on the fact that the most commonly used metrics are imperfect. Especially since you could argue pretty much the same about money entering Bitcoin. But then again I guess that wasn't what you were trying to say in the first place

My point was in fact rather simple

The money which entered the altcoin bubble could not possibly fuel the Bitcoin bubble as well simply because the Bitcoin market is by far greater and vaster than any altcoin market taken separately or even all altcoin markets taken together (if we throw away that bullshit metric called "market cap"). I'd rather say it is the money that went into Bitcoin first that made altocoins grow too since some of this money got poured into them as well (minor part of it, obviously). The fact that major altcoins grew a lot more than Bitcoin (in relative terms) proves how tiny their respective markets are in comparison with that of Bitcoin. In other words, it doesn't take a lot to see them hurt

And here is where I disagree with you, because while we don't know exactly how much money went into alt coins, we still know that a lot of trade is taking place. Anecdotally people are using Bitcoin as a gateway to the alt coin market as that's often the easiest way to get money on exchanges. This too, drives the Bitcoin price, albeit admittedly to an unknown extent.

aoihs00

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I wouldn't bother investing into them no matter what they are red or green currently. It's all about the strategies that you make by yourself. In any way the coin has to come up if it is worth investing and with thoughtful project lines behind it. Looking at your screenshot I'm seeing the panic board where people are just taking out what they could but they are not really learning the market. It's just hype of current market nothing much can be done with such crowd.

BartS

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 02:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

Correct there is no point trying to take measures that will probably not have any effect in the overall picture of bitcoin, it is better to let bitcoin find its price without any attempts to change the market since the next drop in price could be even worst.

ss890

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

You just made perfect proposal here. The crypto currency adoption is also far important than just making profit from it. That is the way I also think and I would love to spread the word in that projection only. The market crash will make those founders as well as investors bit scared about their money (what they care for) and they will take down their greedy investment so as to we end up having only pure investors with care for crypto adoption too. They will be the real risk takers for making a world full of crypto currency and its capitalism in there.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 17, 2017, 09:22:18 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 17, 2017, 02:15:30 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 16, 2017, 03:13:57 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:51:36 AM

Trading volumes are even less relevant to the matter discussed

They basically show how many times a certain number of coins changed hands at trading but this itself tells us nothing about the absolute amount of money that a coin received within a certain period of time. If you sold and bought 1 coin worth 1 dollar 1 million times, you would get 1 million dollar trading volume (actually, 2 million dollars), while in reality you have been trading just 1 dollar, and the same 1 dollar at that. To really see the amount of cash invested, we should know the number of coins being traded (i.e. not the volume of trades) and the change in price. For example, if there is 1M litecoins actively traded (the number is entirely random), and we want to raise the price from 20 dollars to 30 dollars per coin, then it would require us, say, 10M dollars to make this rise possible. This is a very rough estimate, of course (it would require more than that), but it shows the logic behind the correct reasoning

Assuming that BTC trading volume is calculated the same as alt coin trading volume, you can still extract useful information if you look at the trading volumes in relation to each other (assuming the volumes are not artificially inflated due to missing trading fees like in China before the PBOC intervened). ETH is trading at about the same USD volume as BTC. XRP, LTC and ETC are behind with quite some distance, but still at about 1/5th of BTC's USD volume each. That's a lot of coins changing hands, even under the assumption that alts are more heavily affected by daytraders than BTC. It's not a perfect metric, but I don't think any metric is

And what does it change?

In respect to the question raised? Yes, you likely can compare real trading volumes, but these figures still won't tell you anything about how much cash every coin got injected, say, during the last half a year. If someone bought 1 million bitcoins today (just an arbitrary number) with 2 billion dollars and then packed these coins in his wallet for a few years, this won't seriously affect trading volume figures. Tomorrow they will be the same as they were yesterday. This may be a useful metric but it is utterly useless regarding estimation of how much fiat got invested in a certain coin (this is what the question is about)

Alright, alright, I see your point

Trading volume by itself does indeed say very little about how much money went into the market. I just find it problematic to argue against money entering the alt coin market solely based on the fact that the most commonly used metrics are imperfect. Especially since you could argue pretty much the same about money entering Bitcoin. But then again I guess that wasn't what you were trying to say in the first place

My point was in fact rather simple

The money which entered the altcoin bubble could not possibly fuel the Bitcoin bubble as well simply because the Bitcoin market is by far greater and vaster than any altcoin market taken separately or even all altcoin markets taken together (if we throw away that bullshit metric called "market cap"). I'd rather say it is the money that went into Bitcoin first that made altocoins grow too since some of this money got poured into them as well (minor part of it, obviously). The fact that major altcoins grew a lot more than Bitcoin (in relative terms) proves how tiny their respective markets are in comparison with that of Bitcoin. In other words, it doesn't take a lot to see them hurt

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Quote from: bouren on July 17, 2017, 09:48:22 AM

It is nearly impossible to align everyone in single row and expect them to show group behavior. The main reason why crypto market has grown to this stage is random movement. Lots of people coming in market, buying, selling, holding, using thus molding price. You can't expect everyone forms a movement and give excessive utility to bitcoins, one need to be patient and try best to give our contribution.

Surprisingly (or maybe not, considered how human nature works) people are far more inclined to think alike only when there is FUD about BTC around.
We had major price crashes in the past just because someone, somewhere started a rumour that Bitcoin will be outlawed in certain countries,
that BTC is not to be trusted and it is short lived ponzi, that government will ban it in the future etc. and now part of our community is scared to death that split is imminent.

bouren

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It is nearly impossible to align everyone in single row and expect them to show group behavior. The main reason why crypto market has grown to this stage is random movement. Lots of people coming in market, buying, selling, holding, using thus molding price. You can't expect everyone forms a movement and give excessive utility to bitcoins, one need to be patient and try best to give our contribution.

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM

We all saw this coming.
It's about that time.
I'll tell you what. We can keep our $100B market cap if each and every one of you goes out and sets up shop with bitcoin or helps an existing business integrate crypto in less than a month. Colds calls, door to door, vistaprint, hail marry.

I don't believe in that. I don't want to. I believe people are going to start taking high risks. The only thing that's close to the reciprocal of the crash is something at 1 sat with nowhere to go but up.

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

Taking high risk is the way to get more profit and basically to be rich but I think investing in 1sats coin are so risky I mean it is just like gamble on 50/50 change but the again that is way of taking risk but it is more like gamble that business thing or trading. I am not fan of that strategy.

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Quote from: deisik on July 17, 2017, 02:15:30 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 16, 2017, 03:13:57 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:51:36 AM

Trading volumes are even less relevant to the matter discussed

They basically show how many times a certain number of coins changed hands at trading but this itself tells us nothing about the absolute amount of money that a coin received within a certain period of time. If you sold and bought 1 coin worth 1 dollar 1 million times, you would get 1 million dollar trading volume (actually, 2 million dollars), while in reality you have been trading just 1 dollar, and the same 1 dollar at that. To really see the amount of cash invested, we should know the number of coins being traded (i.e. not the volume of trades) and the change in price. For example, if there is 1M litecoins actively traded (the number is entirely random), and we want to raise the price from 20 dollars to 30 dollars per coin, then it would require us, say, 10M dollars to make this rise possible. This is a very rough estimate, of course (it would require more than that), but it shows the logic behind the correct reasoning

Assuming that BTC trading volume is calculated the same as alt coin trading volume, you can still extract useful information if you look at the trading volumes in relation to each other (assuming the volumes are not artificially inflated due to missing trading fees like in China before the PBOC intervened). ETH is trading at about the same USD volume as BTC. XRP, LTC and ETC are behind with quite some distance, but still at about 1/5th of BTC's USD volume each. That's a lot of coins changing hands, even under the assumption that alts are more heavily affected by daytraders than BTC. It's not a perfect metric, but I don't think any metric is

And what does it change?

In respect to the question raised? Yes, you likely can compare real trading volumes, but these figures still won't tell you anything about how much cash every coin got injected, say, during the last half a year. If someone bought 1 million bitcoins today (just an arbitrary number) with 2 billion dollars and then packed these coins in his wallet for a few years, this won't seriously affect trading volume figures. Tomorrow they will be the same as they were yesterday. This may be a useful metric but it is utterly useless regarding estimation of how much fiat got invested in a certain coin (this is what the question is about)

Alright, alright, I see your point

Trading volume by itself does indeed say very little about how much money went into the market. I just find it problematic to argue against money entering the alt coin market solely based on the fact that the most commonly used metrics are imperfect. Especially since you could argue pretty much the same about money entering Bitcoin. But then again I guess that wasn't what you were trying to say in the first place.

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 16, 2017, 03:13:57 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:51:36 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 16, 2017, 11:41:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:29:05 AM

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there was something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this was nowhere near the case. These market cap figures were bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was miserable (in Bitcoin terms). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

While I agree with you that the market cap figures are a bad metric, I still wouldn't dismiss the impact of alt coin speculation on the Bitcoin price. The volume of ETH, XRP, LTC and ETC show that there's indeed quite a lot of trading going on. Sure, a lot of the volume is driven by pumps and herd mentality, but it's still nothing to scoff at, especially for such a young market

Trading volumes are even less relevant to the matter discussed

They basically show how many times a certain number of coins changed hands at trading but this itself tells us nothing about the absolute amount of money that a coin received within a certain period of time. If you sold and bought 1 coin worth 1 dollar 1 million times, you would get 1 million dollar trading volume (actually, 2 million dollars), while in reality you have been trading just 1 dollar, and the same 1 dollar at that. To really see the amount of cash invested, we should know the number of coins being traded (i.e. not the volume of trades) and the change in price. For example, if there is 1M litecoins actively traded (the number is entirely random), and we want to raise the price from 20 dollars to 30 dollars per coin, then it would require us, say, 10M dollars to make this rise possible. This is a very rough estimate, of course (it would require more than that), but it shows the logic behind the correct reasoning

Assuming that BTC trading volume is calculated the same as alt coin trading volume, you can still extract useful information if you look at the trading volumes in relation to each other (assuming the volumes are not artificially inflated due to missing trading fees like in China before the PBOC intervened). ETH is trading at about the same USD volume as BTC. XRP, LTC and ETC are behind with quite some distance, but still at about 1/5th of BTC's USD volume each. That's a lot of coins changing hands, even under the assumption that alts are more heavily affected by daytraders than BTC. It's not a perfect metric, but I don't think any metric is

And what does it change?

In respect to the question raised? Yes, you likely can compare real trading volumes, but these figures still won't tell you anything about how much cash every coin got injected into, say, during the last half a year. If someone bought 1 million bitcoins today (just an arbitrary number) with 2 billion dollars and then packed these coins in his wallet for a few years, this won't seriously affect trading volume figures. Tomorrow they will be the same as they were yesterday. This may be a useful metric but it is utterly useless regarding estimation of how much fiat got invested in a certain coin (this is what the question is about)

Barbarian

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM

We all saw this coming.
It's about that time.
I'll tell you what. We can keep our $100B market cap if each and every one of you goes out and sets up shop with bitcoin or helps an existing business integrate crypto in less than a month. Colds calls, door to door, vistaprint, hail marry.

I don't believe in that. I don't want to. I believe people are going to start taking high risks. The only thing that's close to the reciprocal of the crash is something at 1 sat with nowhere to go but up.

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

Accept the ups and down of the market, this is the kind of market you decided to join there is no point to try to artificially keep the bubble going for more time, let it crash and find its new level and we will build from there.

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Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:51:36 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 16, 2017, 11:41:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:29:05 AM

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there was something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this was nowhere near the case. These market cap figures were bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was miserable (in Bitcoin terms). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

While I agree with you that the market cap figures are a bad metric, I still wouldn't dismiss the impact of alt coin speculation on the Bitcoin price. The volume of ETH, XRP, LTC and ETC show that there's indeed quite a lot of trading going on. Sure, a lot of the volume is driven by pumps and herd mentality, but it's still nothing to scoff at, especially for such a young market

Trading volumes are even less relevant to the matter discussed

They basically show how many times a certain number of coins changed hands at trading but this itself tells us nothing about the absolute amount of money that a coin received within a certain period of time. If you sold and bought 1 coin worth 1 dollar 1 million times, you would get 1 million dollar trading volume (actually, 2 million dollars), while in reality you have been trading just 1 dollar, and the same 1 dollar at that. To really see the amount of cash invested, we should know the number of coins being traded (i.e. not the volume of trades) and the change in price. For example, if there is 1M litecoins actively traded (the number is entirely random), and we want to raise the price from 20 dollars to 30 dollars per coin, then it would require us, say, 10M dollars to make this rise possible. This is a very rough estimate, of course (it would require more than that), but it shows the logic behind the correct reasoning

Assuming that BTC trading volume is calculated the same as alt coin trading volume, you can still extract useful information if you look at the trading volumes in relation to each other (assuming the volumes are not artificially inflated due to missing trading fees like in China before the PBOC intervened). ETH is trading at about the same USD volume as BTC. XRP, LTC and ETC are behind with quite some distance, but still at about 1/5th of BTC's USD volume each. That's a lot of coins changing hands, even under the assumption that alts are more heavily affected by daytraders than BTC. It's not a perfect metric, but I don't think any metric is.

CowboyKiller

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 02:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

We are know the price of Cryptocurrency in few months ago are fake by bubble growth creating from March. After XRP rising up from @500 sat to @7500 sat and virus WannaCry use Bitcoin for extort, the crypto market has become a interesting place for investor anywhere on the world's, special people from HYIP, Ponzi, MLM ...
With that happens, it creating a wave growth and end in June! Now, all crypto in market are correction and falldown to real value

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 16, 2017, 11:41:40 AM

Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:29:05 AM

Quote from: European Central Bank on July 16, 2017, 09:03:27 AM

the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there was something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this was nowhere near the case. These market cap figures were bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was miserable (in Bitcoin terms). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

While I agree with you that the market cap figures are a bad metric, I still wouldn't dismiss the impact of alt coin speculation on the Bitcoin price. The volume of ETH, XRP, LTC and ETC show that there's indeed quite a lot of trading going on. Sure, a lot of the volume is driven by pumps and herd mentality, but it's still nothing to scoff at, especially for such a young market

Trading volumes are even less relevant to the matter discussed

They basically show how many times a certain number of coins changed hands at trading but this itself tells us nothing about the absolute amount of money that a coin received within a certain period of time. If you sold and bought 1 coin worth 1 dollar 1 million times, you would get 1 million dollar trading volume (actually, 2 million dollars), while in reality you have been trading just 1 dollar, and the same 1 dollar at that. To really see the amount of cash invested, we should know the number of coins being traded (i.e. not the volume of trades) and the change in price. For example, if there is 1M litecoins actively traded (the number is entirely random), and we want to raise the price from 20 dollars to 30 dollars per coin, then it would require us, say, 10M dollars to make this rise possible. This is a very rough estimate, of course (it would require more than that), but it shows the logic behind the correct reasoning

HeRetiK

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Quote from: deisik on July 16, 2017, 11:29:05 AM

Quote from: European Central Bank on July 16, 2017, 09:03:27 AM

the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there was something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this was nowhere near the case. These market cap figures were bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was miserable (in Bitcoin terms). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

While I agree with you that the market cap figures are a bad metric, I still wouldn't dismiss the impact of alt coin speculation on the Bitcoin price. The volume of ETH, XRP, LTC and ETC show that there's indeed quite a lot of trading going on. Sure, a lot of the volume is driven by pumps and herd mentality, but it's still nothing to scoff at, especially for such a young market.

deisik

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Quote from: European Central Bank on July 16, 2017, 09:03:27 AM

the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations

I cannot support this view

And I guess I know what made you come to this erroneous conclusion (i.e. that "Bitcoin rise was fueled by the alt bubble"). I think you looked at the total market cap figures of altcoins and got tricked into thinking that there had been something real behind this rise, i.e. real money. As to me, this is nowhere near the case which is to say these huge market cap figures are all bullshit, since the amount of fiat that it took to pump this seeming bubble was in fact miserable (compared to the amount of cash that Bitcoin attracted). In other words, it is Bitcoin that got pumped with the bulk of money which made it rise, and only some dust ended up in altcoins. But since altcoins are dwarfs beside Bitcoin, even this dust was sufficient to inflate the altocoin bubble and make it look enormous and intimidating

European Central Bank

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the bitcoin rise was fuelled by the alt bubble past a certain point. the alt bubble was the biggest and the emptiest yet. none of them got within a million miles of earning their valuations.

this was inevitable and there might be a world more pain to come. it's barely getting warmed up unless some actual fundamentals are delivered which ain't gonna happen.

merchantofzeny

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

I guess that's a good way of looking at it sir. If it's money you can afford to lose anyway, why not buy bitcoins on the cheap. The profit-minded would leave and only those that have faith in the crypto will remain. Since it's on a fall, there would be no new entrants until it rises again. The people that trust bitcoin would then be able to afford the cheaper coins then, at least those left after the whales swallowed their shares.

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If you zoom out, you will see that crypto market cap has sky rocketed way too much to not be correcting.

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Quote from: foxbat on July 12, 2017, 06:54:48 AM

Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 02:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

Every problem we discuss revolves around bitcoin and its potential. All the fluctuations and adjustments, they are causing losses to a lot of people, but conversely, many say it is good for the market.

It's only a loss if you sell. If someone gets spooked by Bitcoin dropping down to the price levels of 7 weeks ago, then they probably shouldn't have invested in the first place. The fundamentals haven't changed in the past few weeks, only the price has.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on July 11, 2017, 03:19:58 AM

As far as I can tell, ethereum is losing value & taking down all other crypto with it as it declines.

The price will rebound once the ethereum ICO scams are done. And after the ethereum bubble is done popping. That's my superficial surface analysis. I can't claim to have looked too deeply into this

I agree that Ethereum is a scammy coin if that is your point

Or, at least, the most hyped and pumped one if it is not. But I can't possibly agree that it is Ethereum which is driving the whole cryptomarket down. I'd rather say that it is Bitcoin's current controversies that contributed heavily to Ethereum ICO scams bursting a little bit prematurely. This situation had been expected long ago (I wrote about it in early June just like many other posters did), so, if anything, Bitcoin shouldn't be seriously affected by Ethereum failing and falling apart (just in case, Litecoin is doing quite well right now). And no, I don't think that people will learn anything since it was abundantly clear right from the start that all these ICO's are just poorly disguised scams

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Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

Exactly simply spreading awareness of bitcoin is useless most of the time and why do people fear when dips occur i trade a lot and with these dips it's easy profit for me no matter which coin i invest in. If you a bitcoin investor you should be more happy as bitcoin won't fall much and can easily gain because of higher demands.

foxbat

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Quote from: HeRetiK on July 11, 2017, 02:16:49 AM

If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

Every problem we discuss revolves around bitcoin and its potential. All the fluctuations and adjustments, they are causing losses to a lot of people, but conversely, many say it is good for the market.

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Aurox

Quote from: davis196 on July 11, 2017, 01:05:37 AM

Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

I agree with your statement that when a price crash occurs big holders are dumping their coins on the market. Though it maybe a disadvantage to those who buy at a higher value but it is an opportunity for buyers to get hold of coin in a lower value. It is also one way of distributing the coins to many holders instead of just one big whale. And so if we do not want to be a victim of the crash do not invest all your resources in one go but instead use only a percentage of that so when a crash or dump will occur you will have a chance to buy.

High risk is the partner of cryptocurrency the moment we join and invest we are placing one feet in losses and the other feet in profit. But just like the saying goes, the higher the risk the higher the profit, the higher the profit the higher the chances of losing.

ImHash

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Guys stop posting sh*t coin images no one cares for them except a few poor newbies trying to earn their daily $3 to stay alive.
By now you all should know as there are people spamming transactions and stalling the improvements, there are also some wolves in this business just for pump and dump, we need to rescue crypto from these worms before it's all eaten away, they are manipulating every thing with some serious cash to back them up. they dump 200K BTC in short bursts and when we panic and sell they will then buy even lower than what they sold their 200K coins. yes anyone with less than half a million bitcoins can cause serious dumps and panic many of you just idiots with your heads in your asses not seeing this.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

look at the bigger picture not just a color on a number on a list then you understand if it is really a good high risk to invest in these coins or a dumb high risk.

i suggest looking at their charts instead, the charts tell you a lot of things. for example you can easily see a dead, no action, no volume, no price rise for years and a sudden rise in past month (hence the green number there). and that means it was a one time thing and won't happen again for a long time.

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Stock market is not safe haven for everybody all commodities are vulnerable to crash even the most stable one on the line. Thats why investing in stock market serious and tough call. Decisions matters its very important and sometimes you need to execute thorough research before you engage in any investments like cryptos.

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Quote from: Hydrogen on July 11, 2017, 03:19:58 AM

As far as I can tell, ethereum is losing value & taking down all other crypto with it as it declines.

The price will rebound once the ethereum ICO scams are done. And after the ethereum bubble is done popping. That's my superficial surface analysis. I can't claim to have looked too deeply into this.

Ethereum was marketed as a glowing example of how "successful" a fork could be. Strange how it may come to represent the complete opposite. I hope people recognize and learn from this history however it turns out.

I agree with you to an extent, but why do you feel like ETH is driving the market down at the moment, would it not be safer to say it'd be instability caused by BTC with the fork approaching?

botany

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour
There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

There are people who are gonna take risks and invest in penny stocks / coins all the time. The only difference between stock markets and crypto markets is that these people make up the fringe in stock markets; here they are mainstream.
Unless we have a huge crash that wipes out their capital, this is going to continue in crypto markets.

Hydrogen

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As far as I can tell, ethereum is losing value & taking down all other crypto with it as it declines.

The price will rebound once the ethereum ICO scams are done. And after the ethereum bubble is done popping. That's my superficial surface analysis. I can't claim to have looked too deeply into this.

Ethereum was marketed as a glowing example of how "successful" a fork could be. Strange how it may come to represent the complete opposite. I hope people recognize and learn from this history however it turns out.

pearlmen

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Quote from: MoneyBomber on July 10, 2017, 06:46:06 PM

We all saw this coming.
It's about that time.
I'll tell you what. We can keep our $100B market cap if each and every one of you goes out and sets up shop with bitcoin or helps an existing business integrate crypto in less than a month. Colds calls, door to door, vistaprint, hail marry.

I don't believe in that. I don't want to. I believe people are going to start taking high risks. The only thing that's close to the reciprocal of the crash is something at 1 sat with nowhere to go but up.

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

In as much as everybody is not totally happy with the crash but I still agree with the poster that the crash is on the other way round a good thing for those who are bent on making sure they continue pumping the bubble and wait till when it burst so they can have their own joy. At the same time, it presents an opportunity by sending a strong message to those who the media have brainwashed to think this is a Ponzi scheme. I however, agree with you that more still needs to be done in sending the message put there.

HeRetiK

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If you think the fundamentals of Bitcoins are strong enough, you won't worry about a small drop such as this. Corrections happen in every market, and with the higher volatility of Bitcoin the swings are stronger of course.

davis196

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Sometimes a price crash is good for the market.It clears all the high risk players who trade only
for profits and don`t care about the cryptocurrency adoption.
Most of the cryptocurrencies(including bitcoin) are so small and have so much free space to grow.
Sooner or later the market will crash and it will clear all the shitty altcoins and keep the coins that have stability and big communities who support them.

MoneyBomber

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We all saw this coming.
It's about that time.
I'll tell you what. We can keep our $100B market cap if each and every one of you goes out and sets up shop with bitcoin or helps an existing business integrate crypto in less than a month. Colds calls, door to door, vistaprint, hail marry.

I don't believe in that. I don't want to. I believe people are going to start taking high risks. The only thing that's close to the reciprocal of the crash is something at 1 sat with nowhere to go but up.

Who thinks we're gonna bounce? Are people investing in 1sat coins in hopes of making extreme gains? Like all or nothing?
I am very on edge because I know there is still a way to make money.

All these coins are in the green. Except by the hour

There's got to be one that's a sure shot up. There's got to be some data scraping that can figure out which one its gonna be.

Topic: Let's have a serious talk about high risks. (Read 2370 times)