Topic: Lets talk hardware wallets... (Read 3547 times)

So trezor, is now taking pre-orders, and it looks sexy, it is open source and it has a BIP 32 wallet. So I am not married to the device. But should I pre-order it.

I know multibit will support it, but is their a patch for bitcoin-qt that will be released?
Will bitcoind support this? So then I can run a bitcoind for my company and give out addresses without worrying about a hacker.
Will the core developers be officially supporting this device? (Gavin gave it his blessing)
Does anyone know if Armory would be supporting this? I hope armory would support this so then I don't need a whole offline computer just for signing transactions.

Anyone know if I should get this or wait for more competition?

I think Slush is an outstanding member so thank you for developing this much needed tool!

They already have my bitcoins LOL

Crindon

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Quote from: TObject on June 19, 2013, 05:20:13 PM

So trezor, is now taking pre-orders, and it looks sexy, it is open source and it has a BIP 32 wallet. So I am not married to the device. But should I pre-order it.

I know multibit will support it, but is their a patch for bitcoin-qt that will be released?
Will bitcoind support this? So then I can run a bitcoind for my company and give out addresses without worrying about a hacker.
Will the core developers be officially supporting this device? (Gavin gave it his blessing)
Does anyone know if Armory would be supporting this? I hope armory would support this so then I don't need a whole offline computer just for signing transactions.

Anyone know if I should get this or wait for more competition?

I think Slush is an outstanding member so thank you for developing this much needed tool!

maco

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Can we still talk hardware wallets?

gweedo

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Quote from: gweedo on June 19, 2013, 05:16:57 PM

You probably have to wait until they release the source for it.

No problem with that. Nice talking to you.

Anytime

TObject

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Quote from: gweedo on June 19, 2013, 05:16:57 PM

You probably have to wait until they release the source for it.

No problem with that. Nice talking to you.

gweedo

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Quote from: TObject on June 19, 2013, 05:14:18 PM

Cool, thank you.

Last question: where is the algorithm for converting a pass phrase to the master seed?

I appreciate your help.

You probably have to wait until they release the source for it.

TObject

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Cool, thank you.

Last question: where is the algorithm for converting a pass phrase to the master seed?

I appreciate your help.

gweedo

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Quote from: TObject on June 19, 2013, 05:03:50 PM

Quote from: gweedo on June 19, 2013, 04:54:01 PM

No BIP 32 is a determinstic wallets proposal. So you can get all your addresses from a single seed.

Can one use the passphrase to re-seed the wallet manually without specialized hardware?

That is exactly why they choose that.

TObject

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Quote from: gweedo on June 19, 2013, 04:54:01 PM

No BIP 32 is a determinstic wallets proposal. So you can get all your addresses from a single seed.

Can one use the passphrase to re-seed a lost wallet manually without specialized hardware?

gweedo

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Quote from: TObject on June 19, 2013, 04:46:12 PM

Quote from: jackjack on June 19, 2013, 04:37:22 PM

Quote from: TObject on June 19, 2013, 04:19:33 PM

Quote from: jackjack on June 19, 2013, 04:37:22 PM

So, if one gets smashed to pieces in an unfortunate dance-it-out incident, do the Bitcons stored on the wallet get lost?

No they use BIP 32 and a randomly generated pass phase which you have to write down and keep a secret.

That makes sense, thank you.

Will there be a published algorithm to convert the pass phrase into the the private key, or the only way to restore a lost wallet with pass phrase is by purchasing the same model of hardware wallet?

BIP32 is published

There is nothing about pass phrase on this page:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032
It just seems like a way of delegating authority through child keys.
Or is this a wrong “BIP 32” I am looking at?

I am sure this has already been discussed elsewhere, so feel free to point me where.
Thanks again.

No BIP 32 is a determinstic wallets proposal. So you can get all your addresses from a single seed.

TObject

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Quote from: TObject on June 19, 2013, 04:19:33 PM

Quote from: TObject on June 19, 2013, 04:19:33 PM

So, if one gets smashed to pieces in an unfortunate dance-it-out incident, do the Bitcons stored on the wallet get lost?

No they use BIP 32 and a randomly generated pass phase which you have to write down and keep a secret.

That makes sense, thank you.

Will there be a published algorithm to convert the pass phrase into the the private key, or the only way to restore a lost wallet with pass phrase is by purchasing the same model of hardware wallet?

BIP32 is published

There is nothing about pass phrase on this page:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/BIP_0032
It just seems like a way of delegating authority through child keys.
Or is this a wrong “BIP 32” I am looking at?

I am sure this has already been discussed elsewhere, so feel free to point me where.
Thanks again.

jackjack

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May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage

So, if one gets smashed to pieces in an unfortunate dance-it-out incident, do the Bitcons stored on the wallet get lost?

No they use BIP 32 and a randomly generated pass phase which you have to write down and keep a secret.

That makes sense, thank you.

Will there be a published algorithm to convert the pass phrase into the the private key, or the only way to restore a lost wallet with pass phrase is by purchasing the same model of hardware wallet?

BIP32 is published

TObject

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So, if one gets smashed to pieces in an unfortunate dance-it-out incident, do the Bitcons stored on the wallet get lost?

No they use BIP 32 and a randomly generated pass phase which you have to write down and keep a secret.

That makes sense, thank you.

Will there be a published algorithm to convert the pass phrase into the the private key, or the only way to restore a lost wallet with pass phrase is by purchasing the same model of hardware wallet?

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

So, if one gets smashed to pieces in an unfortunate dance-it-out incident, do the Bitcons stored on the wallet get lost?

You should have backups of that wallet of course!

gweedo

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Quote from: gweedo on June 18, 2013, 01:38:23 PM

So, if one gets smashed to pieces in an unfortunate dance-it-out incident, do the Bitcons stored on the wallet get lost?

No they use BIP 32 and a randomly generated pass phase which you have to write down and keep a secret.

TObject

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So, if one gets smashed to pieces in an unfortunate dance-it-out incident, do the Bitcons stored on the wallet get lost?

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Trezor is an important step forward, especially if they start offering enterprise-level support to prospective major players/investors.

Next, we should not forget other related projects - Firmcoins and perhaps bitcoin card.

jackjack

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Quote from: Gabi on June 18, 2013, 08:37:10 AM

An hardware wallet? Do want!

I pre-ordered mine, I hope more people do so we can put pressure on wallet program to add support.

You mean client or clients ?
Looks like Multibit supports it and Armory will support it

gweedo

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Quote from: Gabi on June 18, 2013, 08:37:10 AM

An hardware wallet? Do want!

I pre-ordered mine, I hope more people do so we can put pressure on wallet program to add support.

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

An hardware wallet? Do want!

drwho88888

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Have you seen CoinLockr.com ?
It's good and works well. I like it.

bitcoinchecker

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Quote from: someone42 on June 17, 2013, 07:19:07 AM

Quote from: Scrat Acorns on June 17, 2013, 03:06:53 AM

I like Trezor and I will most likely be ordering a few.

Hardware wallets are needed in order for Bitcoin to get to the next level. Getting the average user to secure their computing environment against malware is a next to impossible task, and hardware wallets circumvent this issue.

I suspect we'll be seeing more projects of similar nature materialize in the coming months.

allten and I have been working on the Bitsafe, another hardware wallet. Its development history actually extends goes back further than Trezor's. There are assembled open-source development boards available (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152517.0;all), as well as prototype open-source firmware (see https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hardware-bitcoin-wallet-a-minimal-bitcoin-wallet-for-embedded-devices-78614).

The Bitsafe project was picked up by Butterfly Labs, who are helping us bring it to market later this year. They have (understandably) decided to not do the preorder thing.

Quote from: Scrat Acorns on June 17, 2013, 03:06:53 AM

Does anyone know if Armory would be supporting this? I hope armory would support this so then I don't need a whole offline computer just for signing transactions.

I spoke to etotheipi at Bitcoin 2013 and he was very enthusiastic about hardware wallets. He felt that they complemented Armory well. Anyway, I think Armory is well-positioned to support hardware wallets, after all, a hardware wallet is basically an offline signing wallet.

While Armory does have some good features, setting up and using the offline/online watching only wallet function is very complicated, is time consuming and is easy to mess up (even for the computer savvy )

Trezor appears to provide the same level of security in a more user-friendly way.

And that is why I welcome it and any future developments in this area.

someone42

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Chris Chua

I like Trezor and I will most likely be ordering a few.

Hardware wallets are needed in order for Bitcoin to get to the next level. Getting the average user to secure their computing environment against malware is a next to impossible task, and hardware wallets circumvent this issue.

I suspect we'll be seeing more projects of similar nature materialize in the coming months.

allten and I have been working on the Bitsafe, another hardware wallet. Its development history actually extends goes back further than Trezor's. There are assembled open-source development boards available (see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152517.0;all), as well as prototype open-source firmware (see https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hardware-bitcoin-wallet-a-minimal-bitcoin-wallet-for-embedded-devices-78614).

The Bitsafe project was picked up by Butterfly Labs, who are helping us bring it to market later this year. They have (understandably) decided to not do the preorder thing.

Quote from: Remember remember the 5th of November on June 17, 2013, 07:15:40 AM

Does anyone know if Armory would be supporting this? I hope armory would support this so then I don't need a whole offline computer just for signing transactions.

I spoke to etotheipi at Bitcoin 2013 and he was very enthusiastic about hardware wallets. He felt that they complemented Armory well. Anyway, I think Armory is well-positioned to support hardware wallets, after all, a hardware wallet is basically an offline signing wallet.

jackjack

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How is Trezor safe against protocol changes?

I think its purpose it to sign with an ECDSA private key the data you send to it.
So if the changes are not too deep (like changing the elliptic curve used by bitcoin) it will be ok

Remember remember the 5th of November

legendary

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Reverse engineer from time to time

How is Trezor safe against protocol changes?

Abdussamad

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Quote from: jackjack on June 17, 2013, 06:53:07 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on June 17, 2013, 06:45:50 AM

Quote from: jackjack on June 17, 2013, 06:44:24 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on June 17, 2013, 06:10:03 AM

- They intend to open source everything. So expect Chinese clones that cost 1/10th of the price.

Yeah, I'll definitely use a Chinese clone to manage my money

What do you think is under the hood of the computer you are currently using?

You mean the computer containing my wallet, which is not connected to internet?
I check every transaction it produces, and when I received it it didn't contain any keys.

Whatever man. Trezor is not going to be made in Europe. It too is going to be manufactured in China. In time there will be dozens of reputable companies that will offer this device and prices will go down.

JimCGSavings

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Quote from: junglist.massive on June 17, 2013, 05:52:21 AM

looks cool but I think that mobilephones will take a role o wallets in future

That'd be a cool project for them. The Trezor Smartphone! (grin)

jackjack

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Quote from: Abdussamad on June 17, 2013, 06:45:50 AM

Quote from: jackjack on June 17, 2013, 06:44:24 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on June 17, 2013, 06:10:03 AM

- They intend to open source everything. So expect Chinese clones that cost 1/10th of the price.

Yeah, I'll definitely use a Chinese clone to manage my money

What do you think is under the hood of the computer you are currently using?

You mean the computer containing my wallet, which is not connected to internet?
I check every transaction it produces, and when I received it it didn't contain any keys.

Abdussamad

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Quote from: jackjack on June 17, 2013, 06:44:24 AM

Quote from: Abdussamad on June 17, 2013, 06:10:03 AM

- They intend to open source everything. So expect Chinese clones that cost 1/10th of the price.

Yeah, I'll definitely use a Chinese clone to manage my money

What do you think is under the hood of the computer you are currently using?

jackjack

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May Bitcoin be touched by his Noodly Appendage

Quote from: Abdussamad on June 17, 2013, 06:10:03 AM

- They intend to open source everything. So expect Chinese clones that cost 1/10th of the price.

Yeah, I'll definitely use a Chinese clone to manage my money

junglist.massive

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maybe you're right but it's another gadget in my pocket

Abdussamad

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To answer the OP's question you should wait because of the following reasons:

- First version of anything is usually buggy. You should wait until this is tested in the wild and subject to abuse by hackers worldwide.
- They intend to open source everything. So expect Chinese clones that cost 1/10th of the price.
- With time there will be better wallet support.

Reasons not to wait are:

- You are an early adopter and want to support this work.
- Impatience. It might take a while before the Chinese get into action and before we have improved software support.

bitcoinchecker

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Quote from: junglist.massive on June 17, 2013, 05:52:21 AM

looks cool but I think that mobilephones will take a role o wallets in future

That still doesn't eliminate the need for a simple, non-technical way of backing up and storing private keys offline.

I believe future versions of trezor will also be available for mobile use.

I like this product and it is a step in the right direction as far as increasing confidence through better security for users.

Abdussamad

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Quote from: TeeBone on June 17, 2013, 03:36:15 AM

As a non-techie waiting on the sidelines cuz of security concerns, im very excited about this.

Hope it turns out well, cant wait to buy my first bitcoins !

It isn't that bad. Buy your first coins now.

jackjack

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Quote from: junglist.massive on June 17, 2013, 05:52:21 AM

looks cool but I think that mobilephones will take a role o wallets in future

NFC-Trezor

junglist.massive

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looks cool but I think that mobilephones will take a role o wallets in future

gweedo

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Quote from: jackjack on June 17, 2013, 03:01:35 AM

Quote from: gweedo on June 17, 2013, 03:18:37 AM

I know multibit will support it

How? Is there any specs of Trezor out there?

http://www.bitcointrezor.com/#testimonials look at Jim Burton's quote. No specs or information about how to support it, but if you talk to Slush I bet he would allow you to see it, if you could add support to a client or something.

jackjack

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Quote from: jackjack on June 17, 2013, 03:01:35 AM

Quote from: Mjbmonetarymetals on June 17, 2013, 02:41:11 AM

I know multibit will support it

How? Is there any specs of Trezor out there?

http://www.bitcointrezor.com/#testimonials look at Jim Burton's quote. No specs or information about how to support it, but if you talk to Slush I bet he would allow you to see it, if you could add support to a client or something.

Thanks

TeeBone

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As a non-techie waiting on the sidelines cuz of security concerns, im very excited about this.

Hope it turns out well, cant wait to buy my first bitcoins !

Scrat Acorns

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I like Trezor and I will most likely be ordering a few.

Hardware wallets are needed in order for Bitcoin to get to the next level. Getting the average user to secure their computing environment against malware is a next to impossible task, and hardware wallets circumvent this issue.

I suspect we'll be seeing more projects of similar nature materialize in the coming months.

gweedo

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About time there was a dedicated hardware wallet - http://www.bitcointrezor.com/

It isn't a dedicated hardware wallet, it is more of a two factor auth system.

jackjack

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Quote from: maco on June 14, 2013, 07:04:17 PM

I know multibit will support it

How? Is there any specs of Trezor out there?

Mjbmonetarymetals

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About time there was a dedicated hardware wallet - http://www.bitcointrezor.com/

gweedo

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Where can I see the pictures of the hardware wallets?

Its a great idea. Keep up the good work.

So trezor, is now taking pre-orders, and it looks sexy, it is open source and it has a BIP 32 wallet. So I am not married to the device. But should I pre-order it.

I know multibit will support it, but is their a patch for bitcoin-qt that will be released?
Will bitcoind support this? So then I can run a bitcoind for my company and give out addresses without worrying about a hacker.
Will the core developers be officially supporting this device? (Gavin gave it his blessing)
Does anyone know if Armory would be supporting this? I hope armory would support this so then I don't need a whole offline computer just for signing transactions.

Anyone know if I should get this or wait for more competition?

I think Slush is an outstanding member so thank you for developing this much needed tool!

http://www.bitcointrezor.com/

maco

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Where can I see the pictures of the hardware wallets?

Its a great idea. Keep up the good work.