leverage trading method and psychology

virasisog

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Quote

Stick with spot for long time and try to make yourself sustainable or able to survive this kind of trading path before you do touch up leverage or futures.We know that price volatility is something
the main thing that we do need to deal off but since your trade position is based on leverage then it would really make things even more faster to be blown of, this is why it would really be
that ideal or sensible that you should really make yourself that knowledgeable first when it comes to spot.Beginners or noobs do usually not that patient on waiting times
specially on spot.They do love to see quick profits but eventually they would really be realizing on what the reality is in this market.

It's better to take one step at a time than to hop into something that will only make you lose bigger in the future. Trading is a long process of learning and there are still steps that you have to take before doing leverage. As a beginner, you better try your luck in spot trading first and learn from your experience before jumping into futures and leverage so you'll know the specific strategy that will work for you and you'll be able to do market analysis. Learn how to manage the risks first. Once you adopt all the knowledge for you to take the next step wisely, you should first know the risks that you can take by trying Spot trading. Focus on learning first because leverage trading isn't as easy as others think.

Afgan84

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

OK I decided to try my hand again at leverage trading
The plan was to watch the market and when I see it making a move in one direction go in with high leverage for a small move with no stop loss
This went well 1st week and was up 30% but then went down hill fast

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

One issue I have other than getting scared is to do with time restraints I am trying to find a trade quickly and not giving it enough time also aping in and usual sh*t
I am trying to come up with a strategy that works as close to 100% as possible and have found one on BTC/USDT with an average of 95% success rate. Other pairs are also high 80s to mid 90s
I have stopped trading for a bit and am doing more tests and paper trading

Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

Hey bro, you're trading the Way i was trading before and the result is: lost of more than 30K.
Stop leverage trade and go to read about trading psychology, the Best book i find about this is TRADING IN THE ZONE Of Mark Douglas, this book has changed the way I'm looking at the market.

You can't use more than X10 Wich is already very big because there are same coin that can make +/- 5% in less of 1 minute.
Don't trade everyday because you'll find yourself doing over trading.
90% is psychology and the rest is technical analysis and fandamental.
Good luck.

wxa7115

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Quote from: tvplus006 on October 07, 2022, 09:38:30 AM

Quote from: BD Crypto on October 05, 2022, 12:45:08 PM

I also tried this type of trading strategy and for a long time I was in profit but it has a high risk of being liquidated. And I also get liquidated several types and now I stopped trading with high leverage. I think low leverage trading has long time benefits like 5-10% leverage.

Trading with low leverage allows you not only to save your money, but also to preserve your health. After all, it is no secret to anyone that when we open a position, contrary to common sense, we stop sleeping peacefully and get nervous throughout the day when the price movement goes in the opposite direction to our expectations.

It is better to avoid to use leverage when we trade, while it attractiveness is obvious as you can in theory make more money in the same amount of time and with the same amount of trades, the truth is that by using leverage and having more money at risk you are making it way harder for yourself to actually control your emotions.

Which as we know they can be one of the main issues when it comes to following our strategy, and once we abandon it our losses will be way higher than if we were not using leverage.

tvplus006

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Quote from: BD Crypto on October 05, 2022, 12:45:08 PM

I also tried this type of trading strategy and for a long time I was in profit but it has a high risk of being liquidated. And I also get liquidated several types and now I stopped trading with high leverage. I think low leverage trading has long time benefits like 5-10% leverage.

Trading with low leverage allows you not only to save your money, but also to preserve your health. After all, it is no secret to anyone that when we open a position, contrary to common sense, we stop sleeping peacefully and get nervous throughout the day when the price movement goes in the opposite direction to our expectations.

BD Crypto

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I also tried this type of trading strategy and for a long time I was in profit but it has a high risk of being liquidated. And I also get liquidated several types and now I stopped trading with high leverage. I think low leverage trading has long time benefits like 5-10% leverage.

Fatunad

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Quote from: Desscount on October 04, 2022, 05:34:42 AM

Quote from: awik p on October 02, 2022, 11:58:32 PM

Quote from: lalabotax on October 02, 2022, 04:57:15 PM

Quote from: ningrum on September 23, 2022, 07:54:35 AM

What you are saying is true other than that if someone wants to trade leverage he must really know the risks and have to learn first,
however it is important to consider first because leverage trading is not easy

Leverage trading needs not only basic knowledge but also knowledge and ability to do more, analyze more, accept more risks, consider the right decision at the right time, able to control emotion, able to make the right management of the funds. Trading with leverage is complex and may not be suitable moreover for newbies. Although we have been learning many times, if we cannot control ourselves in leverage trading, this will mean nothing and is too risky to hold.

Leverage trading requires psychological conditions, of course this is not suitable for beginners, but if you want to do it, choose leverage starting from the smallest first. The most dangerous thing is if you choose a large leverage, then greed and not doing a cutloss in certain situations will approach, so that we are trapped in a large floating situation and finally it is possible to make a cutloss with big losses due to panic selling.

It's too risky for those beginners to trade leverage and better think carefully,
beginners still need to improve their knowledge and skills,
which is obviously better to choose a safer trade

Stick with spot for long time and try to make yourself sustainable or able to survive this kind of trading path before you do touch up leverage or futures.We know that price volatility is something
the main thing that we do need to deal off but since your trade position is based on leverage then it would really make things even more faster to be blown of, this is why it would really be
that ideal or sensible that you should really make yourself that knowledgeable first when it comes to spot.Beginners or noobs do usually not that patient on waiting times
specially on spot.They do love to see quick profits but eventually they would really be realizing on whats the reality on this market.

Desscount

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Quote from: awik p on October 02, 2022, 11:58:32 PM

Quote from: lalabotax on October 02, 2022, 04:57:15 PM

Quote from: ningrum on September 23, 2022, 07:54:35 AM

What you are saying is true other than that if someone wants to trade leverage he must really know the risks and have to learn first,
however it is important to consider first because leverage trading is not easy

Leverage trading needs not only basic knowledge but also knowledge and ability to do more, analyze more, accept more risks, consider the right decision at the right time, able to control emotion, able to make the right management of the funds. Trading with leverage is complex and may not be suitable moreover for newbies. Although we have been learning many times, if we cannot control ourselves in leverage trading, this will mean nothing and is too risky to hold.

Leverage trading requires psychological conditions, of course this is not suitable for beginners, but if you want to do it, choose leverage starting from the smallest first. The most dangerous thing is if you choose a large leverage, then greed and not doing a cutloss in certain situations will approach, so that we are trapped in a large floating situation and finally it is possible to make a cutloss with big losses due to panic selling.

It's too risky for those beginners to trade leverage and better think carefully,
beginners still need to improve their knowledge and skills,
which is obviously better to choose a safer trade

justdimin

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Quote from: awik p on October 02, 2022, 11:58:32 PM

Leverage trading requires psychological conditions, of course this is not suitable for beginners, but if you want to do it, choose leverage starting from the smallest first. The most dangerous thing is if you choose a large leverage, then greed and not doing a cutloss in certain situations will approach, so that we are trapped in a large floating situation and finally it is possible to make a cutloss with big losses due to panic selling.

Leverage trading requires an understanding of the risks, that's the hardest part. Many people do not understand how difficult it is for people to make a profit based on such a low amount of chance to profit, there is a good chance that you could start trading and after just one minute you could lose all of your money.

So, you should at all times be careful about what you are doing, if you end up not caring about it then you are going to lose a lot more and that's something you should be careful about and newbies do not realize. Newbies do not usually know the risk that you would lose money in a single minute if you are not careful about.

TheGreatPython

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Quote from: Wakate on October 01, 2022, 05:46:48 PM

I cam see that all you have been doing so far is to gamble. As a trader you don't have to trade the way you are doing it which is obviously a weak and poor way to trade the market. I think many traders that had followed this pattern of trading are no more in the market again and they have ended up losing all there funds. You need to stop this kind of trading and go learn the art of trading so you can trade with confidence and not been panic or the market next move because you are very sure about what you are doing.

Trading is more of skills than trying your luck to see if you can make some profits and later losing it due to uncertainty of what you are really doing because the method you are using is not safe at all and can make you lost everything of care is not taken into consideration.

This is what trading all about, it's like we are playing gambling but I think his mistake there is that he don't use any kind of analysis but he only follows his own instincts and what is worst is that he also choose high risk when doing a leverage trade.

It's not that what he was doing is bad but I think there are traders who are successful with it. It's just the op simply lacks on experience and knowledge that is why he fails to profit continuously. He is not weak but weak are those who didn't come back here anymore because they can't accept what happened to their money. As we can see the op is willing to learn and improve his trading performance.

awik p

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Quote from: lalabotax on October 02, 2022, 04:57:15 PM

Quote from: ningrum on September 23, 2022, 07:54:35 AM

What you are saying is true other than that if someone wants to trade leverage he must really know the risks and have to learn first,
however it is important to consider first because leverage trading is not easy

Leverage trading needs not only basic knowledge but also knowledge and ability to do more, analyze more, accept more risks, consider the right decision at the right time, able to control emotion, able to make the right management of the funds. Trading with leverage is complex and may not be suitable moreover for newbies. Although we have been learning many times, if we cannot control ourselves in leverage trading, this will mean nothing and is too risky to hold.

Leverage trading requires psychological conditions, of course this is not suitable for beginners, but if you want to do it, choose leverage starting from the smallest first. The most dangerous thing is if you choose a large leverage, then greed and not doing a cutloss in certain situations will approach, so that we are trapped in a large floating situation and finally it is possible to make a cutloss with big losses due to panic selling.

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Quote from: ningrum on September 23, 2022, 07:54:35 AM

What you are saying is true other than that if someone wants to trade leverage he must really know the risks and have to learn first,
however it is important to consider first because leverage trading is not easy

Leverage trading needs not only basic knowledge but also knowledge and ability to do more, analyze more, accept more risks, consider the right decision at the right time, able to control emotion, able to make the right management of the funds. Trading with leverage is complex and may not be suitable moreover for newbies. Although we have been learning many times, if we cannot control ourselves in leverage trading, this will mean nothing and is too risky to hold.

LUCKMCFLY

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Quote from: TelolettOm on September 17, 2022, 06:23:28 PM

Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

Seriously with this high leverage? I know that the profits may be very high, but this means also that the risks are also very high.
Actually, trading with leverage in the Future trading is a high risk. We cannot deny that not all people are able to work on it because this relates to certain complex things. It is not only about how much we can earn but also how much we can probably lost. There are some carts that must be abalyzed carefully, withs mart decsion when taking the position, taking good chcoie of LONG or SHORT in the right time. ANd using wise levergae that will fit to us, not force to get high profits.

For the use of leverage, I would not go too far, it is risking a lot, but I have learned something, that when you go short it is good to go with good leverage, you can play with up to 20% if possible, but I think there are things how to leave in LONG without leverage, just for the simple reason that in LONG it is more expensive to do it, while in shrot it is cheaper, and I think that it is always fulfilled, for me these things have always fascinated me and I want one day to handle so much money to save my positions and protect them with leveraged longs and shorts, that's my goal in trading, I've only seen this and read it in books.

tvplus006

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I got too greedy with my leverage trading and I started constantly trading with 10 to 20x leverage causing me to lose a lot of money. And when I lost money I had a desire to win something bigger and I kept going with 10 to 20x leverage again and again so I lost about $40 to $50 thousand dollars by Binance Future trade

It becomes like a casino when you place a double bet after losing. I hope you haven't lost all your money. In this case, you need to reconsider your trading strategy in the direction of reducing risks in order to return to safer margin trading again.

Wakate

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

OK I decided to try my hand again at leverage trading
The plan was to watch the market and when I see it making a move in one direction go in with high leverage for a small move with no stop loss
This went well 1st week and was up 30% but then went down hill fast

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

One issue I have other than getting scared is to do with time restraints I am trying to find a trade quickly and not giving it enough time also aping in and usual sh*t
I am trying to come up with a strategy that works as close to 100% as possible and have found one on BTC/USDT with an average of 95% success rate. Other pairs are also high 80s to mid 90s
I have stopped trading for a bit and am doing more tests and paper trading

Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

I cam see that all you have been doing so far is to gamble. As a trader you don't have to trade the way you are doing it which is obviously a weak and poor way to trade the market. I think many traders that had followed this pattern of trading are no more in the market again and they have ended up losing all there funds. You need to stop this kind of trading and go learn the art of trading so you can trade with confidence and not been panic or the market next move because you are very sure about what you are doing.

Trading is more of skills than trying your luck to see if you can make some profits and later losing it due to uncertainty of what you are really doing because the method you are using is not safe at all and can make you lost everything of care is not taken into consideration.

tvplus006

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Leverage trading is something like gambling and it is soo risky . As in gambling, a gambler can lose all his money in an instant . in the leverage trading one trader also can lose all his money instant if he/she take a wrong entry and wrong leverage in wrong time. it is only truth

If you adhere to the basic rules of risk management and at the same time use a stop loss, then the risk of losing your funds with leverage will not be high. Or to paraphrase it in simple words, if you do not open a deal for the entire deposit with maximum leverage, then you will not lose your money. The use of margin requires special knowledge and skills, so it is not recommended for beginners to use it.

desmodiAN

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"This went well 1st week and was up 30% but then went down hill fast "

Thats basically what happens when leveraging and just "guessing" what direction the market moves.
Crypto is high volatile, so you get burned every now and then. Suprising jumps are in. Keep your hands off.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Natalim on September 26, 2022, 04:47:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Leverage trading is high risky task . i have using this method before and lost a huge amount of my assets . so first of all i will not suggest anyone to do Leverage trade . but if someone can consider that risk then they can try with bitcoin coz bitcoin is safe then another's coins for leverage trading and shouldn’t use more then 5x . but 3-4x is better for leverage trading every time.

Those who can manage to handle the stress in leverage can bring themselves to it. Because if you are not really confident about this and not well-prepared, I was sure you will end up losing everything you put there. Just like how OP makes such a decision and faces the consequences of it (losing). Actually, leverage trading and trading, in general, is not for everyone and therefore, we don't need to urge ourselves doing this if we are not ready and capable enough in the first place.

This is a point that is often not mentioned but that it needs to be mentioned again and again, trading is not for everyone, and people need to be aware of this simple fact before they even begin their trading journey.

After all you need to have a specific profile to earn money in the markets, with one of the most important characteristics being to not become emotional when you lose money, this is a problem for most people as they cannot deal with their losses properly and then they make a revenge trade which devastates their account, something which could have being easily avoided if they could avoid having such an emotional response to their losses.

Natalim

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Leverage trading is high risky task . i have using this method before and lost a huge amount of my assets . so first of all i will not suggest anyone to do Leverage trade . but if someone can consider that risk then they can try with bitcoin coz bitcoin is safe then another's coins for leverage trading and shouldn’t use more then 5x . but 3-4x is better for leverage trading every time.

Those who can manage to handle the stress in leverage can bring themselves to it. Because if you are not really confident about this and not well-prepared, I was sure you will end up losing everything you put there. Just like how OP makes such a decision and faces the consequences of it (losing). Actually, leverage trading and trading, in general, is not for everyone and therefore, we don't need to urge ourselves doing this if we are not ready and capable enough in the first place.

SquirrelJulietGarden

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on September 25, 2022, 06:58:14 PM

Even though we have high control over our emotions, sometimes, they will break when we are surprised by the market condition which is very opposite to our position and analysis. This leverage or future market is exactly not for everyone or moreover for newbies. This is high risk. Although people say that if we have analyzed, this is not gambling. But in fact, although we have analyzed the market based on charts and other types of analysis, sometimes, the market is so unpredictable.

We can self believe that we are able to control emotions but it is like calm before a storm. When market suddenly moves up or down, emotion will show its effects on decisions. Sudden movements can cause FOMO or panic activities that are never good for capital and risk management.

The best to control emotion is having solid knowledge then belief on what we are doing. Best is investment in long term and don't store coins on exchanges. By this, we won't be affected by short term sudden movements.

Quote

Probably this will be different for professional traders who have good experience in Future or leverage trading.

Experienced and professional traders know when to enter, when to exit and they are disciplined with their entries as well as their exits. Even exit price is not giving profit, they will do exit.

Exits have two types: Exit to take profit and exit to cut loss.

Professional traders know when to cut loss and move onwards. They don't keep their positions open for too long because when the market moves beyond a time window that matches with their entry, it will move up or down a lot. So if you don't cut loss at right time, big loss will come.

kawetsriyanto

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Quote from: carlfebz2 on September 25, 2022, 06:29:56 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

~snip~

Thats why it does really need up knowledge plus having a good self control when it comes to emotion.Make yourself stick out on things which are realistic or something that could able to obtain and not trying out

Even though we have high control over our emotions, sometimes, they will break when we are surprised by the market condition which is very opposite to our position and analysis. This leverage or future market is exactly not for everyone or moreover for newbies. This is high risk. Although people say that if we have analyzed, this is not gambling. But in fact, although we have analyzed the market based on charts and other types of analysis, sometimes, the market is so unpredictable.
Probably this will be different for professional traders who have good experience in Future or leverage trading. because, once the market goes oppositely, they have understood what to do or what to prevent by using hedging mode, SL, and other strategies. And they may also have other positions to jump in order to earn profits from other trading positions to cover the loss from another.
but for newbies? they may not know about what to do.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ningrum on September 23, 2022, 07:54:35 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Leverage trading is high risky task . i have using this method before and lost a huge amount of my assets . so first of all i will not suggest anyone to do Leverage trade . but if someone can consider that risk then they can try with bitcoin coz bitcoin is safe then another's coins for leverage trading and shouldn’t use more then 5x . but 3-4x is better for leverage trading every time.

What you are saying is true other than that if someone wants to trade leverage he must really know the risks and have to learn first,
however it is important to consider first because leverage trading is not easy

Leverage trading is something like gambling and it is soo risky . As in gambling, a gambler can lose all his money in an instant . in the leverage trading one trader also can lose all his money instant if he/she take a wrong entry and wrong leverage in wrong time. it is only truth

Thats why it does really need up knowledge plus having a good self control when it comes to emotion.Make yourself stick out on things which are realistic or something that could able to obtain and not trying out

to prove out things which arent that attainable or something can be reached.Take things slowly but surely and i do say that leverage isnt for everyone considering the level of risk but there were indeed people

who could really able to bare up the risk and ending up on holding themselves well on leverage/futures trading but its not recommendable for a noob to touch up this area.

barbara44

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Quote from: ningrum on September 23, 2022, 07:54:35 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Leverage trading is high risky task . i have using this method before and lost a huge amount of my assets . so first of all i will not suggest anyone to do Leverage trade . but if someone can consider that risk then they can try with bitcoin coz bitcoin is safe then another's coins for leverage trading and shouldn’t use more then 5x . but 3-4x is better for leverage trading every time.

What you are saying is true other than that if someone wants to trade leverage he must really know the risks and have to learn first,
however it is important to consider first because leverage trading is not easy

Leverage trading would cause a lot of trouble for people if they do not know the history of most leverage traders. They should always be aware of the fact that they would lose all their money if they keep doing it, and they shouldn't really be doing it that way at all.

I would personally suggest that if you do not know the fact that ALL of your money in a single minute if you are not careful, then you shouldn't risk it at all, then you are not ready for it at all. I personally would suggest everyone to stay away as long as possible. Not that anyone listens, they go ahead and do something that is dangerous and then they end up with nothing in their wallet and cry why it happened to them.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Leverage trading is high risky task . i have using this method before and lost a huge amount of my assets . so first of all i will not suggest anyone to do Leverage trade . but if someone can consider that risk then they can try with bitcoin coz bitcoin is safe then another's coins for leverage trading and shouldn’t use more then 5x . but 3-4x is better for leverage trading every time.

What you are saying is true other than that if someone wants to trade leverage he must really know the risks and have to learn first,
however it is important to consider first because leverage trading is not easy

BeeIforai

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

OK I decided to try my hand again at leverage trading
The plan was to watch the market and when I see it making a move in one direction go in with high leverage for a small move with no stop loss
This went well 1st week and was up 30% but then went down hill fast

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

One issue I have other than getting scared is to do with time restraints I am trying to find a trade quickly and not giving it enough time also aping in and usual sh*t
I am trying to come up with a strategy that works as close to 100% as possible and have found one on BTC/USDT with an average of 95% success rate. Other pairs are also high 80s to mid 90s
I have stopped trading for a bit and am doing more tests and paper trading

Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

I used to have this same issue. My trading psychology was messed up. It got to a point that I was depressed because I was emotionally invested with the charts.
One day, I decided I would take a break. I didn't look at the charts, I didn't look at my wallet. I put everything concerning trading on a hold.
When I returned, I got a working strategy and back tested like my life depended on it. I also worked on my risk to reward ratio. Although I'm still struggling to keep my emotions in check, my trading has improved drastically.
Sometimes, taking a break is all you need.

Mpamaegbu

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Quote from: wxa7115 on September 22, 2022, 09:45:28 PM

Quote from: Mpamaegbu on September 19, 2022, 11:59:48 AM

~snipped~

At least to me leverage does not really make a lot of sense unless you are an expert trader, and even then the risk that such a trader is taking is massive, since we have seen in the past some of those expert traders going bankrupt just because they made one bad trade while using leverage.

This is what separates the "boys traders" from the "men traders" No one should call themselves traders until they're able to meander through risks and survive it like swimming in sharks infested water. Trading is taking sensible risk, whether the conventional spot trading or futures. For me, as someone, who's perusing futures trading newly I've come to realize that it's just like Forex Trading. The risk everyone is complaining about has been there in FX a long time ago. I don't it will be anything new for those who've been in the forex market before trading cryptos. Nonetheless, we should take into cognizance the vital place of risk in trading. It has to be there to make trading exciting.

wxa7115

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Quote from: _BlackStar on September 19, 2022, 09:04:31 PM

Quote from: Mpamaegbu on September 19, 2022, 11:59:48 AM

I reckon that it's not easy to keep one's emotion in check, whether in trading or during altercations. However, it's necessary and highly an advisable thing to do while trading. Emotion is the real plan killer. It has messed so many traders and their plans up, and will continue to do so.

Of course, it is never easy to control emotions especially when the trader is never far away from his monitor. I tend to think of that reasoning as something that makes me prefer to invest and holding instead trading with any strategy. I think the risk of plan failure can be more assured for investing than for trading, but of course this thread is about trading so it might be a bit unkind to talk about a lot of things.

Trading with laverge is very risky ^{[I don't do it]} especially with the current conditions. I've never tried it so maybe I don't understand this strategy very well, but of course I can understand what the risks are. High Laverge for high risk, but also for high return.

There is not really a lot to understand when it comes to leverage, you are increasing your exposure to the markets by borrowing money hoping to earn more money, but at the same time you increase the risk you are facing and this increases the size of your losses.

At least to me leverage does not really make a lot of sense unless you are an expert trader, and even then the risk that such a trader is taking is massive, since we have seen in the past some of those expert traders going bankrupt just because they made one bad trade while using leverage.

_BlackStar

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Quote from: Mpamaegbu on September 19, 2022, 11:59:48 AM

I reckon that it's not easy to keep one's emotion in check, whether in trading or during altercations. However, it's necessary and highly an advisable thing to do while trading. Emotion is the real plan killer. It has messed so many traders and their plans up, and will continue to do so.

Of course, it is never easy to control emotions especially when the trader is never far away from his monitor. I tend to think of that reasoning as something that makes me prefer to invest and holding instead trading with any strategy. I think the risk of plan failure can be more assured for investing than for trading, but of course this thread is about trading so it might be a bit unkind to talk about a lot of things.

Trading with laverge is very risky ^{[I don't do it]} especially with the current conditions. I've never tried it so maybe I don't understand this strategy very well, but of course I can understand what the risks are. High Laverge for high risk, but also for high return.

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Quote from: Xampeuu on September 15, 2022, 10:04:59 PM

~snipped~

This is too risky, leverage trading is only for those who understand trading and know how to use indicators.

For those who may not understand what leverage trading or Futures is, it's simply what we've in Forex trading or Binary Options where one gets to lose or make profit once a trade is triggered and running. It's not like our traditional spot trading where one gets to lose or make profit only when a trade has been successfully closed.

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Having too much emotion every time you trade can make you more uncomfortable and can force you to make decisions out of nowhere.

I reckon that it's not easy to keep one's emotion in check, whether in trading or during altercations. However, it's necessary and highly an advisable thing to do while trading. Emotion is the real plan killer. It has messed so many traders and their plans up, and will continue to do so.

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Now Ayesha did who loves to invest but no one wants their money all people want to earn a lot of money with her money but for that she has to work but she is facing many problems by investing money without knowing properly and what is all her money Goes away at the moment of loss

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

Seriously with this high leverage? I know that the profits may be very high, but this means also that the risks are also very high.
Actually, trading with leverage in the Future trading is a high risk. We cannot deny that not all people are able to work on it because this relates to certain complex things. It is not only about how much we can earn but also how much we can probably lost. There are some carts that must be abalyzed carefully, withs mart decsion when taking the position, taking good chcoie of LONG or SHORT in the right time. ANd using wise levergae that will fit to us, not force to get high profits.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

I am trying to come up with a strategy that works as close to 100% as possible and have found one on BTC/USDT with an average of 95% success rate. Other pairs are also high 80s to mid 90s
I have stopped trading for a bit and am doing more tests and paper trading

Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

If you've tried a strategy and it works well with a 95% success rate isn't that good? what you want 100% success i think its impossible. It's better to stick to your strategy that has been implemented and has been successful than to keep changing and trying to find another strategy that can waste time and money because it doesn't necessarily work as well as the previous one.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

(....)

Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

In risk management, you must stick with your plan. Try to wait or let your trade go alone as long as you already set up the take profit price and stop loss price. Some traders tend not to have patience and they always tend to f*cked up their trading plan at the beginning.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

leverage trading method and psychology

Of course, there is a very close relationship between leverage and our psychology. We must have good attention and management related to our psychology during trading because this relates to our emotions and money. However, trading with leverage, without the knowledge to analyze, is more like gambling without a foundation. Moreover, leveraged trading actually has a much higher risk and consequence than ordinary trading on the Spot Market. Therefore, if we are new and do not understand properly regarding leverage trading, it is better not to do it first. Or instead, we will experience various losses and lose money.

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Quote from: goaldigger on September 16, 2022, 04:29:42 PM

Quote from: AicecreaME on September 15, 2022, 11:32:24 PM

Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

If you don't do your technical analysis, of course this would happen to you, getting scared all of the time when your PNL became red. The right indicators and technical analysis is the solution to your problem, trust as well in your knowledge. Plus, you should also put stop loss in the price where your technical analysis told you, always follow that and you'll be able to grab the profits you always wanted.

Being greedy will put you in a worst place, this is why we should always have a trading plan so our emotion can’t take over our decisions. Technical analysis works, this is your guide on when to buy and sell and in leverage trading, this is very important because by using TA, it will give you a signal on your next move. Being too emotional is not good in trading on any ways, better to stay focus on your strategy and commit always.

Technical analysis doesnt always work but doesnt mean that you should really make yourself do skip out on making use of these things considering that these are the mainly tools and indicators which you would be mainly needed whenever you do deal up with this market.You cant just predict and point out fingers on where the prices could eventually go because thats pure gambling in the first place.Leverage trading is something that it isnt recommendable specially to those who had just recently learned trading because of the volatility and engagement needed on short term duration then having those lack of skills and experience will surely be experiencing huge losses and this is where realization do comes in.

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Quote from: AicecreaME on September 15, 2022, 11:32:24 PM

Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

If you don't do your technical analysis, of course this would happen to you, getting scared all of the time when your PNL became red. The right indicators and technical analysis is the solution to your problem, trust as well in your knowledge. Plus, you should also put stop loss in the price where your technical analysis told you, always follow that and you'll be able to grab the profits you always wanted.

Being greedy will put you in a worst place, this is why we should always have a trading plan so our emotion can’t take over our decisions. Technical analysis works, this is your guide on when to buy and sell and in leverage trading, this is very important because by using TA, it will give you a signal on your next move. Being too emotional is not good in trading on any ways, better to stay focus on your strategy and commit always.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

This went well 1st week and was up 30% but then went down hill fast

At that level you should've set your SL at entry price. 30% steal from the market isn't a small achievement. You ought to have protected it than continue on free mode.

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The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared

This is every trader's experience. However, to succeed as a profitable trader one has to break out from such fright. Trading isn't wrestling or boxing that one gets blood out. It's a profession and you ought to see it that way. If trading makes you scared it means you're overstretching your capital. Relax and reduce your leverage or lot size and trade and you will definitely see the difference in your psychology.

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Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

I just answered that question above 👆

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One issue I have other than getting scared is to do with time restraints I am trying to find a trade quickly and not giving it enough time also aping in and usual sh*t

Show me an impatient trader and I will show you one who won't be profitable. Even as short as scalping looks, those who scalp the market still have a high level of patience. They could wait hours just to take a 5-minute trade.

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I am trying to come up with a strategy that works as close to 100% as possible and have found one on BTC/USDT with an average of 95% success rate. Other pairs are also high 80s to mid 90s

Even if you've a perfect strategy of 100% winning rate but you aren't patient, it will still not be profitable to you.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

If you don't do your technical analysis, of course this would happen to you, getting scared all of the time when your PNL became red. The right indicators and technical analysis is the solution to your problem, trust as well in your knowledge. Plus, you should also put stop loss in the price where your technical analysis told you, always follow that and you'll be able to grab the profits you always wanted.

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There’s no way to do a consistent profit using high leverage even though theres a clear market trend because theres always price swing on crypto equivalent to the volatility of the trend.

This

Quote from: mk4 on September 12, 2022, 09:07:34 AM

The thing with strategies as simple as you've described is that it's highly likely that a lot of people have tried the same strategy but failed.

I don't know why people insist on these strategies. Surely it is because they follow youtubers who give them "strategies" like this to get rich quickly, but they do not tell them that the faster the "strategy" is used, the higher the risk of bankruptcy increases, until it approaches 100% as you increase the leverage and use it longer.

Keep in mind that in trading you are competing against high frequency algorithms run by Hedge Funds, who have a lot of capital to move the market and who are emotionally neutral, they only make mathematical decisions.

In all the time I have been in the forums and interested in economics and finance, I have not yet seen anyone show evidence of winning consistently in the medium term (not even long term) with these systems.

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if we use leveraged trading, it would be better to use a small leverage, so that this can process our psychology so that it is well organized. with small leverage without us giving a stop loss then there will be a stop out automatically, and this is very good for practicing our analytical sharpness. even though the OP managed to use high leverage, but in his heart of course he can't enjoy trading, because there is always a sense of worry, not to mention if there will be an overlot, of course it will be very dangerous

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

well the plan was to increase leverage from 10x -50x the strategy I have back tested has a 93- 96% success rate on the 1 minute chart at 50x leverage but that 4% will liquidate you
The plan was one quick scalp a day a move of 1/2% which would gain me 5-10% on my account

I think the theory is sound just need to work on the execution Wink

You have the answer that you're looking for right in front of you but you refuse to see it, not long ago it was common in the forum to see scammers selling scripts for dice which they claimed won 99% of the time, but what they do not told you was that when the script lost they lost everything.

You are not really getting any closer to become a successful trader, as long as the possibility of losing all of your capital is not zero then sooner or later you will lose it all, so you need to change the way you approach this problem and instead of concentrating yourself in your accuracy you need to concentrate yourself on not going bankrupt.

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Quote from: Hamphser on September 15, 2022, 05:45:20 PM

Most of the time when noobs or newbies do see other leverage trading results which does end up on big profits specially on social medias then they do really get easily hyped up and believe that they could do it also.

This is where mistakes do really start and on the time that they had been wrecked out by the market then this is where realization do happen.Leverage or futures trading is never been simple.

Make yourself that good with spot trading before you do consider on touching up this area because this do really require that knowledge and skills that you do acquire through lots of trading.

Noobs may at first try leveraged trading and they are lucky to get some profits. Without them realizing it is just the beginning and without having any knowledge of leverage trading and good chart reading, it is impossible to read the market well.

Futures trading is never that simple, there will be many complex issues and other things to think about. let alone use leverage unwisely by using high leverage and hope everything goes according to their plan. Even as a professional the use of high leverage will be very high risk.

There is never a strategy that works 100%, I'm sure of it, because every strategy has weaknesses. but it's easy for the OP to say his strategy will work on average 95% to 100%, is he a professional trader?

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Quote from: palle11 on September 15, 2022, 03:27:47 PM

Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

OK I decided to try my hand again at leverage trading
The plan was to watch the market and when I see it making a move in one direction go in with high leverage for a small move with no stop loss

Don't always trade like this because you saw an opportunity and you want to through caution into the wind, this will reult into a huge lose. You might be escaping it but you can't escape it all the time since you doing a wrong type of trading. Trading with stop loss is more reasonable and reassuring than to gamble in trade. If you meet a bad trade, the losses are more severe that what you gain.

Most of the time when noobs or newbies do see other leverage trading results which does end up on big profits specially on social medias then they do really get easily hyped up and believe that they could do it also.

This is where mistakes do really start and on the time that they had been wrecked out by the market then this is where realization do happen.Leverage or futures trading is never been simple.

Make yourself that good with spot trading before you do consider on touching up this area because this do really require that knowledge and skills that you do acquire through lots of trading.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

OK I decided to try my hand again at leverage trading
The plan was to watch the market and when I see it making a move in one direction go in with high leverage for a small move with no stop loss

Don't always trade like this because you saw an opportunity and you want to through caution into the wind, this will reult into a huge lose. You might be escaping it but you can't escape it all the time since you doing a wrong type of trading. Trading with stop loss is more reasonable and reassuring than to gamble in trade. If you meet a bad trade, the losses are more severe that what you gain.

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Fear is one of the reasons for the failure of the strategies you develop. Trading is something that is very risky especially when you don't have enough spare funds to make ends meet. I don't know what to say when you want to get a proper answer on how to trade with laverge and deal with SL & TP. This must be hard to explain because everyone is so worried about the risks.

High leverage for high risk too, but it also allows you to get high returns. Take the middle way, do it with small funds and for the amount you can afford to lose, it will give you a sense of security, especially when expectations do not match reality.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

One issue I have other than getting scared is to do with time restraints I am trying to find a trade quickly and not giving it enough time also aping in and usual sh*t
I am trying to come up with a strategy that works as close to 100% as possible and have found one on BTC/USDT with an average of 95% success rate. Other pairs are also high 80s to mid 90s
I have stopped trading for a bit and am doing more tests and paper trading

Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

The problem is not fear or timing. It is only your self-comfort and self-deception. The problem is the absolute lack of risk management and a perfectly polished strategy. At the moment, your trading is no better than slots in one-armed bandit. You will never come up with anything with such risks, because it is almost impossible to use it in long-term trading. Well, you can trade with such risks for a couple of days or weeks, and then what? And then the inevitable drain of the deposit and losses. This is a 100% guaranteed final for all margin traders using 2 or 3 digit leverage.

The fact that you use tests and paper trading is good. I myself once went through this. This approach is very helpful in identifying certain patterns in your trading and focusing around them. I can say for sure that sooner or later you will come to the conclusion that trading with x1.5 - x1.8 leverage will be more or less comfortable. The sooner you come to realize this, the more time and money you will save.

You wouldnt really realize these things if you wont able to experience for yourself and whenever you do touch those leverage then sooner or later you would be finding out whether it would really be just fine for you to
handle up such risk or not.Its true that this isnt particularly talking about fear or timing.You would able to find out on what are the things will mainly affect you along the way.
Its not really that suggestable on dealing up with higher leverage if your capability or knowledge/skills arent enough on handling such trading method or field.

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The fear and restraint you described are the emotions they always talk about, and they can pretty much mess up your trading strategy if you don't take care of them.. Trading on high leverage without any stop loss is like suicide.
Foremost, no trader gets it 100% after several trades. At one point, there's going to be that one bad trade. You don't want to make 15 successful trades and some good profit only to lose all the margin to liquidation on the 16th bad trade.

i think stop loss, TP and risk reward ratio should matter a lot and maybe an improved win rate of above 50%.

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Quote from: adaseb on September 12, 2022, 09:44:35 PM

I am going to tell you right now that there is no indicator out there that is correct 95% of the time or even 80% of the time. There just isn’t.

You most likely back tested a small time period or your conditions weren’t based on real world conditions with slippage and actually getting a fill at your price.

TA works but not all the time, the market can go on a different trade against your analysis so it's true, it's not a 100% correct all the time and that's why you need to adjust accordingly and have a good strategy to minimize your loss, probably a stop loss can be a big help. Leverage trading is not easy, and increasing the leverage doesn't guarantee any profit, think if you can handle the risk before you proceed, there's a little margin on that and you might get liquidated easily.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

well the plan was to increase leverage from 10x -50x the strategy I have back tested has a 93- 96% success rate on the 1 minute chart at 50x leverage but that 4% will liquidate you

Increasing your leverage from 10x to 50x will make the liquidation price very closer, it can be used by expert traders, but using it can lead to liquidation at any time. Use money that you can gamble with for it. There are possibilities that success is possible, but also the means many traders funds are getting liquidated.

Taking for example, bitcoin at $20000. Using 50x leverage.
Liquidation price for long position would be $19600
Liquidation price for short sition would $20400
Not yet including the trading fee.

I have traded like this before, but I consider it very high risk and liquidation is possible at anytime.

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I am going to tell you right now that there is no indicator out there that is correct 95% of the time or even 80% of the time. There just isn’t.

You most likely back tested a small time period or your conditions weren’t based on real world conditions with slippage and actually getting a fill at your price.

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Sometimes the stop loss and take profits will work in good way.But sometimes,it make you to think about later.Because the less profit after the huge price rise will make you to think like that.But the huge loss only save from this method.Sometimes people won’t accept the huge profit option was skipped only from the loss of opportunity.While considering the huge loss,they only worry of the loss of opportunities of huge profit.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

the strategy I have back tested has a 93- 96% success rate on the 1 minute chart at 50x leverage

How many backtested trades did you do to get to that figure?
Some things work well for a week and then just stop working.

Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

but that 4% will liquidate you

Are you sure it's 4%? There's no extra buffer the exchange adds at that leverage (it'll be unique to each exchange afaik).

Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 08:16:14 AM

The plan was one quick scalp a day a move of 1/2% which would gain me 5-10% on my account

I think the theory is sound just need to work on the execution Wink

It might work if you have good execution and other things (like plans to stop for the day if nothing interesting happens).

There are ways of detecting certain moves that'll probably work in these strategies more than they won't - the issue is going to be to stop when something stops working and going back to backtesting.

The execution should have a stop loss though, it pulling back in the direction beyond your tp three times doesn't mean anything if you've liquidated three times in the process of doing that or one liquidation will empty your account.

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Set your take profit and stop loss, then let the market hit your plan. This will control your emotions.

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The thing with strategies as simple as you've described is that it's highly likely that a lot of people have tried the same strategy but failed. It's simply just so easily broken due to the fact that a single decent sell order can easily liquidate you immediately.

^I wish you the best of luck though.

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Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher

Quote from: forestx on September 12, 2022, 07:54:27 AM

One issue I have other than getting scared is to do with time restraints I am trying to find a trade quickly and not giving it enough time also aping in and usual sh*t

It could mean many things. It could be a poor position sizing, or it could also mean that you are trading your PnL and not your technicals, or maybe a plain emotional hurdle called FOMO.

When I say poor position sizing, you are maybe entering a trade that's too large keeping your eyes glued on your PnL because you are just simply uncomfortable seeing your money getting rekt. Trading your PnL and not your technical on the other hand means that you exit based on the +/- percentage you see and not on your charts or the data points you have created.

Both of these issues are related to mindset or your psychological behaviour and the best solution you could come up with is experience and discipline.

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well the plan was to increase leverage from 10x -50x the strategy I have back tested has a 93- 96% success rate on the 1 minute chart at 50x leverage but that 4% will liquidate you
The plan was one quick scalp a day a move of 1/2% which would gain me 5-10% on my account

I think the theory is sound just need to work on the execution Wink

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Indicators can fail, which makes it not possible. Going for 10 to 20x leverage is high. You need stop loss for it. And that should only be used for scalping.

If you do not want to use stop lose, it is still risk. Assuming you like to go on 5x leverage which would be he highest that would be good for this. You can start trading with 1x and be happy with the very little gain if it continues to work. If you are losing and the indications are indicating your direction would soon be favoured, then you can just go 2x. If it fails, then go for 5x which should be the highest leverage you should use.

As you increase the leverage, the price you opened position will draw closer to the recent price of the coin you are using to trade. And this strategy can go beyond scalping to day trading if your first analysis failed.

I have used several altcoins to trade before, altcoins can turn an expert trader to a poor trader. I will advice you to use bitcoin.

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OK I decided to try my hand again at leverage trading
The plan was to watch the market and when I see it making a move in one direction go in with high leverage for a small move with no stop loss
This went well 1st week and was up 30% but then went down hill fast

The issue I have is not so much bad calls but getting scared
I will go in with 10-20x leverage and see my money drop like a stone be down 20% and exit only to see it climb back up and hit the TP or climb higher
This has happened three times now.

One issue I have other than getting scared is to do with time restraints I am trying to find a trade quickly and not giving it enough time also aping in and usual sh*t
I am trying to come up with a strategy that works as close to 100% as possible and have found one on BTC/USDT with an average of 95% success rate. Other pairs are also high 80s to mid 90s
I have stopped trading for a bit and am doing more tests and paper trading

Is there a way to make this work or do others mainly trade with leverage how do you handle stop loss and take profit

Topic: leverage trading method and psychology (Read 608 times)